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pismakron wrote:

Solidcrash wrote:

Trukk or one kind of Battlewagon? My codex don’t arrive yet.

Get a trukk. Or just use a toy-car as a standin. If you like using trukk-boyz, then you can always buy the genuine model.

Cheer! My codex finally arrived today! I just read it up and I think I might go for Goff as main and small Blood Axe. Blood Axe - Stormboyz, Kommondo with Boss Snikrot for objectives grabbing and Goff hoards ( multiple small units to avoid weakness like blast) I’ll DIY build trukk for those Boyz.

I am greatly interested in how kustom mega blastas have gone to 1d3 blast weapons!

Curious as to how much 3 of them on a dread with a saw costs? I feel like bringing 9 of these, as freebootas, could be a hilarious approach!

18d3 S8 AP-3 damD6 shots per turn, with a reasonably high chance of self-destruction! Not competitive, but could be a combination of powerful weapons and enemy redundancy (anti-infantry is weak vs dreads).

 Jidmah wrote:
For all 9th edition codices there is little reason to treat anything that's not explicitly labeled as an aura as such. Either they forgot to flag it as such then they will FAQ it, or they intentionally didn't flag it to prevent this interaction.

not certain that's right,

In the core rules there is a section and definition of aura abilities that defines aura abilities as the following -

"Aura Abilities - Some abilities affect models or units in a given range – these are aura abilities"

I would say there is pretty strong argument for the banner being an aura ability based on that definition.

It does not say they need to be tagged as aura abilities, but then again who the hell knows with games workshop.

Sorry, kingbbobb, but that kind of nonesense only flies in YMDC and nowhere else. Every real opponent and TO will laugh in your face about that argumentation and then toss you out.

I could provide you with hundreds of abilities that fit that interpretation which are clearly not auras, first and foremost explosions.

 Jidmah wrote:
Sorry, kingbbobb, but that kind of nonesense only flies in YMDC and nowhere else. Every real opponent and TO will laugh in your face about that argumentation and then toss you out.

I could provide you with hundreds of abilities that fit that interpretation which are clearly not auras, first and foremost explosions.

Argue it with goon hammer not me....

https://www.goonhammer.com/ruleshammer-march-12th-2021-auras-fast-dice-and-dense-cover/

Everyone I know follows the same interpretation described in the goonhammer article......

https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/logicalfallacies/Appeal-to-Authority

That article is wrong on so many levels

They are literally making up rules on the spot.

 Jidmah wrote:
Sorry, kingbbobb, but that kind of nonesense only flies in YMDC and nowhere else. Every real opponent and TO will laugh in your face about that argumentation and then toss you out.

I could provide you with hundreds of abilities that fit that interpretation which are clearly not auras, first and foremost explosions.

Yea, maybe chill out a bit there bud. Actually a lot more of a legit stance than you believe. There are multiple examples of this kind of thing discussed in the article.

The guy who wrote the article did address the explosion question in a comment below.



"After a bit of discussion here at goonhammer HQ, just to be sure my reasoning is sound; No Exploding isn't an aura. An aura affects models in a range, and auras affect the model themselves unless stated otherwise.

While exploding does have affect on the models within 6" it's not just because they were in range, it's because the model died and rolled a 6+. The ability explode did not affect them before this moment.

The key thing really is that auras are pretty much always "while within" worded abilities.

I am frustrated that we're having to do this though, I kept putting off aura discussion for a while hoping GW would recognise the impact of not addressing it. I was hesitant to enter this debate a little."

 kingbbobb wrote:
The key thing really is that auras are pretty much always "while within" worded abilities.

Yes, but that's not what the rules say, neither in the core rules, nor in the glossary. Despite Goonhammer's approach being vastly superior to what GW wrote - it's just made up rules by someone on the internet.

And if you need proof of their interpretation being wrong - check the "Follow Me, Ladz!" warlord trait.

The best course of action is just directly asking GW via their FAQ e-mail whether Big Gob boosts the banner and wait for them to answer.

New FAQ!

Is not here. So the “leaks” from offical app are just errors? Or do we have to wait another month unsure, what rules are valid?

This is not complaining. This is a serious queston. What rules should I follow to play the orks right?

I’m fairly certain almost every competitive tournament plays auras as those abilities with the tag or faq stating they are auras only.

The way Gw labeling them doesn’t make sense even ghaz and Makari has some that are and some that aren’t but those are the rules as written. Anything else is just a house rule. orks especially as we have a current 9th edition codex.

Talk about it where is our faq so I can be disappointed further :p


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tomsug wrote:
New FAQ!

Is not here. So the “leaks” from offical app are just errors? Or do we have to wait another month unsure, what rules are valid?

This is not complaining. This is a serious queston. What rules should I follow to play the orks right?

My guess the app is being updated w the faq and someone submitted this build early. This is probably the beta version of the faq and I wouldn’t take it as gospel just probably which direction the rules team is going. Such as adding specialist to transports instead of just changing klan kulturs with a specialist kultur

Btw, explosion is an aura raw.

gungo wrote:

My guess the app is being updated w the faq and someone submitted this build early. This is probably the beta version of the faq and I wouldn’t take it as gospel just probably which direction the rules team is going. Such as adding specialist to transports instead of just changing klan kulturs with a specialist kultur

That makes the situation on the table very clear….

 Jidmah wrote:

 kingbbobb wrote:
The key thing really is that auras are pretty much always "while within" worded abilities.

Yes, but that's not what the rules say, neither in the core rules, nor in the glossary. Despite Goonhammer's approach being vastly superior to what GW wrote - it's just made up rules by someone on the internet.

And if you need proof of their interpretation being wrong - check the "Follow Me, Ladz!" warlord trait.

The best course of action is just directly asking GW via their FAQ e-mail whether Big Gob boosts the banner and wait for them to answer.

I don't want to talk about individual abilities, that will just lead to arguements.

point I am trying to make is you can't rely on that aura tag for what is or is not an aura ability.

And there are alot of people who feel the same way, I am obviously not alone.

Is it an aura ability?
I dunno because I am not games workshop.
But it seems to meet the definition in core rules

"Aura Abilities - Some abilities affect models or units in a given range – these are aura abilities"

Ran a 3 patrol list against custodes and ultra marines last week. Made some slight tweaks and think this list legs (I've converted 3 ostrich style armigers with warbosses as squigasaurs)

3rd patrol is mixed freebootas and deathskulls with the warlord being freebootas for the relic and strat. 2*Burna boyz 5man squads go in trukks with the 2x5 man nobz squads who are 2x to the last along with my Ard as nails squigasaur boss. If the opponent has good indirect (e.g. 2*full load manticores) i can put 2*5nobz in one trukk and teleporta it in T3.

List can take to the last, engage or stranglehold, RoDs or raise the banners and only gives up 12 for assassination, 6 for bring it down and can take abhor the witch.

All infantry in the list can be objective secured except for the 5x burnaboyz from the fixed detachment (I could spend 1cp on the freeboota strat to make the kommandos obsec)

The storm Boyz can start off the table or deploy and jump into any empty trukks.

List works by stopping the opponent from scoring primaries. I just held 2/3 objectives and kept jumping enough obsec bodies to contest objectives. On the whole I found "to the last" "engage" and "RoDs" allowed me to get 80+ points with minimal interaction.

Thoughts and questions welcome.

gungo wrote:
. The way Gw labeling them doesn’t make sense even ghaz and Makari has some that are and some that aren’t but those are the rules as written. Anything else is just a house rule. orks especially as we have a current 9th edition codex.

Pretty sure those abilities are all labelled aura


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tomsug wrote:
New FAQ!

Is not here. So the “leaks” from offical app are just errors? Or do we have to wait another month unsure, what rules are valid?

This is not complaining. This is a serious queston. What rules should I follow to play the orks right?

Ignore the app for now, there are so many errors.
It's clearly some kind of draft build that's been uploaded

Beastboss on squig for example doesn't have any abilities. It doesn't even have the beast snagga ability.

Wouldnt an aura be one thats literally called.. Aura? like our new codex has an (Aura) written on it, if its an aura. If GW wanted anything else to be auras, i think they would put (Aura) on it. Sure if the codex hadnt been released and it was just an old ability, the freebootas banner that is, i would say yea its an aura.

But it doesnt have the (Aura) text so i fail to see why it should be an aura.

 Jidmah wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 OddGoblin wrote:

XC18 wrote:
They updated the Transport rule in the Trukk datasheet itself: [...This model has a transport capacity of 12 Flash Gitz, Specialist mob Infantry or <Clan> Infantry models...]

so...what can I tell to my OnlyCompetitive group?
Trukk now can transport FG/Specialist and Cultur but what about it? Doesn't it need to be Specialist too?

Please help a stupid grot to understand

Tnx

I'm not sure what there is to understand? It can transport Flash Gits, Specialist Mob Infantry of any kind no matter what the trukk's clan is OR transport a unit that shares a clan with it.

This is a New thing. I always used a BW or Trukk to transport orks from the same Klan.
So i'm asking for what you have wrote, an evilSUnz Trukk CaN now transport members from other klan/specialist?
and We can also mix them? 6 FG + 6 Specialist?

You can transport any model if it meets one of the following criteria:

-Same Clan as the vehicle
-Flash Gitz
-Specialist Mob

An Evil Suns Truk cannot transport a Goffs unit.

I played against White Scars today and wanted to try a nasty Goff Squig horde - we basicly called it a day after my second turn but i would have tabled him about turn 4.

My list:


Everything Goffs except Mozrog. 5 Stormboys in reserve for Orktarius Data and 4 CP left.

His list:


I deployed my Kommandos on the two midfield objectives, he went for the "bait" in his first turn and after that i called my Waaagh and deleted the 20 VanVets + about 3-4 Bladeguards.
His second turn Mozrog saved like a champ and survived with 1 wound, the other brawling Squigboss was tanking like a beast as well. Killrig lost 8 wounds though, his Captain was not fooling around.
After that i traded my stuff but it was nothing but downhill for him with me getting boardcontroll + having killed most of his hard hitting stuff.

Those Goff Squiggos hit like, well, trucks full of Squigs, but the defensive capabilities of the Squighog Boys are really nothing to plan around. They feel like one mean glass hammer but did what they should.
The Squig Bosses are brutal and while camping and doing some screening my Squigbuggies were unspectacular but solid.
Not getting the first turn was good though, i might have been tempted for some risky charges with a turn 1 Waaagh otherwise.
I really need to check out what that list can do against shooty armies, not sure how to hide all my juicy targets.

Maybe i`ll try it again but change Mozrog for 1 Wazbom in reserve which would still leave me with 4 CP and just 14 VP for assassinate, but i really love having those 3 murdering jet somewhat tanky boys.
I tried to fit some Nobs on smasha squigs as well, but while those MW are nice, they are easy 3 VP each and 130 for two is quite an investment.
10 Beast Snagga Boys in the Kill Rig might be worth a try as well, i think they would be a fine addition to that kind of list.


But i have to say, in my close to 20 games with the new codex so far i have played so many different units & lists and i still find new stuff i want to try every day. Lots of cool tools and a ton of valid otions for anything up to semi competetive games. My painting priorities are filled with Ork stuff right now.
If they had kept the ES +1 to charge, made them maybe even treat Dakka weapons as assault (even if it`s just while Waaagh is active) and made a few units like Flash Gits a bit cheaper, superheavy aux detachments profiting from Clan Cultures, the Custom Jobs a little more viable and Bad Moons a little better it would have been a near-perfect codex.
They really should have added some kind of super doctrine (while Waaagh) for mono culture as well to make it at least an option. I love the ability to mix and match cultures but it feels like that would have been a good addition.

 JNAProductions wrote:
You can transport any model if it meets one of the following criteria:

-Same Clan as the vehicle
-Flash Gitz
-Specialist Mob

An Evil Suns Truk cannot transport a Goffs unit.

Hmm, that raises an interesting idea. Since you change your Klan keyword to the specialist detachment, could you put a goff turned trukkboy into an evil sunz trukk?

It's a niche thing make no mistake, but having a detachment of goffs and evil sunz, getting two trukkboyz and using two trukks from the evil sunze detacehment would give you an extra inch of movement on the trukks to make those sweet first turn charges even easier.

Possible and if you slap Squighide Tyres on one of them you`ll get another inch out of it.

Goff turned Trukkboy into an Evil Sunz trukk?
He isnt goff at that point, hes a trukkboy. And yes thats exactly how it works.

Specialist mobs are mostly for those random units that simply dont work in the detachment that well, case in point if you ran badmoonz you could Trukkboyz a MANz squad and despite being in a badmoonz detachment theyre getting melee perks.

Still trying to figure out if trukkboyz is worth it. Yeah an easy first turn charge is awesome. But be it boyz, meganobz, nobz or a warboss you also lose klan and klan stratagems or relics and traits. For instance, it would be the difference between a big choppa armed nobz mob wounding on 3s or 2s. To say nothing of the handful of extra attacks. Meganobz also love the extra hits with their penalties to hit, though the difference between str 10 and str11 is negligible.

Still tossing up if a megaboss would be fun to chuck at the enemy first turn. A boss with Krushin armour and ard as nails would be fun to have in the enemies deployment first turn. Especially if you can get them sitting in cover for that extra pip to your save.

Beardedragon wrote:
Wouldnt an aura be one thats literally called.. Aura? like our new codex has an (Aura) written on it, if its an aura. If GW wanted anything else to be auras, i think they would put (Aura) on it. Sure if the codex hadnt been released and it was just an old ability, the freebootas banner that is, i would say yea its an aura.

But it doesnt have the (Aura) text so i fail to see why it should be an aura.

ideally yes, but if we go by that we get ridiculous inconsistencies.

example, read Dok’s Toolz for Painboss/Painboy

on the Painboss it has the (Aura) text
on the Painboy it does not
on Grotsnik it does not

In other 9th edition books-
Space marine bodyguard on terminators is not an aura ability
On deathgaurd terminators it is is an aura ability.


This is why you cannot trust the (Aura) text to tell you what is and isn't an Aura ability, Games Workshop are not that good at writing a codex.

They miss alot, make alot of mistakes, are very inconsistent

So when confronted with a written definition of what an aura ability is, "Aura Abilities - Some abilities affect models or units in a given range – these are aura abilities"people like me raise an eyebrow, and question whether or not an ability is an aura ability even if it doesn't have an Aura tag.

Did they miss it by accident ? Is the Aura tag an optional convenience (according to goonhammer)? Why do the core rules not mention an aura tag ? If the above written definition only applies to 8th ed codices shouldn't it say so?

There are alot gaps in taking the stance "only (Aura) tagged abilities are aura abilities "

Just to be clear i don't know what the answer is.

 kingbbobb wrote:
point I am trying to make is you can't rely on that aura tag for what is or is not an aura ability.

And there are alot of people who feel the same way, I am obviously not alone.

Is it an aura ability?
I dunno because I am not games workshop.
But it seems to meet the definition in core rules

"Aura Abilities - Some abilities affect models or units in a given range – these are aura abilities"

You are contradicting yourself. GW tells us what abilities are aura abilities by tagging them. You might disagree with their tagging, but that is about the same as disagreeing with the point costs of lootas.
In the end, the rules are the rules and they are very clear for the ork codex.

Also keep in mind that any time you aren't sure about whether rules work as intended, the sporting thing to do is to take a defensive stance on the issue. In this case you are trying to gain an advantage by changing the rules, and that's a no-go.

And just to be clear - I agree with what you say about auras and their consistency. They're a mess. I just don't think there is an easy way to fix that mess, so playing it as written is the best thing you can do.

Yeah, just keep in mind you can't explode near Mortarion.

To end this discussion (I think it's rather clear that GW messed up), I've added the two aura issues to the first post.

 Jidmah wrote:
. They're a mess. I just don't think there is an easy way to fix that mess, so playing it as written is the best thing you can do.

But that's just it. I am playing it rules as written.... It's just written as a mess.

Would you say the painboss has the aura ability Doks tools but the painboy + grotsnik does not?
Or would you play rules as intended and say they both have an aura ability?

If you apply the rules you are quoting consistently to the game it breaks. See koooaei's comment about Mortarion switching off explosions (and bombs, many witchfires and more).

So that interpretation cannot be a valid way to play.