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2021/11/03 13:57:16
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
I had a single Mek gun kill a swarmlord with full wounds turn 1 last wednesday .
It was amazingly hillarious
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh btw Semper. How do you deal properly with a very high toughness enemy army composition?
One running a lot of vehicles for instance. I dont see a lot of high damage units in the army.
Like, if they get turn 1 and go after your KMKs or Deffkoptas then you would only have your warbosses left.
Also how many Nobz do you use in each trukk? 10? For a total of 30 double choppa nobz?
I run TrukkBoyz not Trukk Nobz, so each trukk has 1 Nob in it with double choppa.
So Lets say i go second like I have in most of my games, he pops all my KMK mek gunz and somehow takes out all my koptas as well. Well here is the best part, lets assume a T8 2+ vehicle. A unit of Kommandos AVERAGES 2 Mortal wounds from the Squig, 5 dmg from the Kommandos and 2.2 from the Nob. So Just a unit of Kommandos average 9dmg to a T8 vehicle with a 2+ save, How about vs a T7 3+ vehicle? A Unit of Trukk boyz average 4ish dmg BUT they also can throw a Tankbusta bomb which does 2D3 mortals which basically doubles there dmg output
The list is sneaky in its ability to deal with vehicles and has a lot of options that are available to deal with a swath of targets. Kommandos are almost as good killing elite infantry and vehicles as they are against cheap throwaway infantry. Trukkboyz do work against light targets but can put out a rather astonishing amount of dmg vs tougher targets, and of course they don't mind getting bogged down in CC against those T8 vehicles because losing a 9pt model to a random las cannon isn't as bad as getting targeted by a hurricane of bolter shots
Obsec bikers sounds great, though if the army restriction is, "no infantry" then it's a non-starter, assuming they don't also backdoor a rule that lets bikes do actions as if they are infantry.
2021/11/03 15:03:29
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
So far no indication speedfreak army of renown is klan locked just losing boys as choice. Doesn’t mean snagga or Gretchin are not usable either. I mean taking warbikers as troops actually opens up a lot more detachments for speedwaagh instead of the default patrol/outriders everyone is using.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/11/03 15:05:06
2021/11/03 15:36:23
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
I see they have more vehicle kustom jobs there as well. Hopefully we have some stuff that isn't as limiting as the ones we have in the core codex, it kinda stings still to have lost so many interesting upgrades in SoTB to the "meh" stuff we have now.
2021/11/03 15:47:53
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
I’m not exactly hopeful on the kustom jobs and warlord traits…
I mean it’s hard to beat BBK for your main warlord trait.
Ard as nails and junk boss are strong too as your second one…
I mean it would be cool if a big Mek can call a speed Waagh as a warlord trait to open up that option but that’s doubtful.
Kustom jobs- maybe we get a shokk jump or scrapjet versions back… and maybe something for bikes or deffkoptas… really hoping walkers get love but doubtful as it’s not really speedfreaky.
Strats though can only go uphill from what we got… and a strat for kommandos? They are already good.
and new relics can be good too as there really isn’t much for vehicles in relics and outside the killaklaw, headchoppa for melee relics and krushing armor for mega armor… their isn’t a lot especially for bloodaxes… but again this could just be a single junk relic or 2 or ideally a I would have said the sniper in the kommando kit which doesn’t have rules in 40K but he’s not a character. So probably something like relic kff, relic shokk atk gun for a big Mek or something like that
The biggest boost so far is just taking warbikers as troops… that opens up a world for detachment choices that people previously just ignored because they wanted no troops outside patrol and outrider.
This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2021/11/03 16:09:42
2021/11/03 15:53:24
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
I had a single Mek gun kill a swarmlord with full wounds turn 1 last wednesday .
It was amazingly hillarious
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh btw Semper. How do you deal properly with a very high toughness enemy army composition?
One running a lot of vehicles for instance. I dont see a lot of high damage units in the army.
Like, if they get turn 1 and go after your KMKs or Deffkoptas then you would only have your warbosses left.
Also how many Nobz do you use in each trukk? 10? For a total of 30 double choppa nobz?
I run TrukkBoyz not Trukk Nobz, so each trukk has 1 Nob in it with double choppa.
So Lets say i go second like I have in most of my games, he pops all my KMK mek gunz and somehow takes out all my koptas as well. Well here is the best part, lets assume a T8 2+ vehicle. A unit of Kommandos AVERAGES 2 Mortal wounds from the Squig, 5 dmg from the Kommandos and 2.2 from the Nob. So Just a unit of Kommandos average 9dmg to a T8 vehicle with a 2+ save, How about vs a T7 3+ vehicle? A Unit of Trukk boyz average 4ish dmg BUT they also can throw a Tankbusta bomb which does 2D3 mortals which basically doubles there dmg output
The list is sneaky in its ability to deal with vehicles and has a lot of options that are available to deal with a swath of targets. Kommandos are almost as good killing elite infantry and vehicles as they are against cheap throwaway infantry. Trukkboyz do work against light targets but can put out a rather astonishing amount of dmg vs tougher targets, and of course they don't mind getting bogged down in CC against those T8 vehicles because losing a 9pt model to a random las cannon isn't as bad as getting targeted by a hurricane of bolter shots
You probably know this but didnt see you mention it in the kommando math, they can throw tankbusta bombs as well.
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell
2021/11/03 16:22:08
Subject: Re:Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
You probably know this but didnt see you mention it in the kommando math, they can throw tankbusta bombs as well.
You are correct! But in a battle with those two units stuck in, i'll likely use it on the Boyz because the Kommandos wound everything in the game on 4+ or better, where as the trukkboyz could theoretically be wounding on 6s.
Trukkboyz are only ever S4, Kommandos are S5 on the charge and have +1 to wound in CC when in cover...which is always so you can wound T9 on a 4+ with Kommandos, but with Trukkboyz it would be a 6+.
But in a situation where only the Kommandos are getting stuck in..yeah, absolutely throwing that Tankbusta bomb.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Should mention, I run my army as Goffs, which is where the S5 is coming from
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/03 16:42:52
Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote: Kinda zogged that we’re just getting the wagon/fortress looted vehicles. With them being crusade they could have done actual looted rules.
Its possible those are the 3 profiles offered as a base but the wargear is rather varied and based on scrap used rather than powerlevel changes. I've tried my hand in the past (7th edition) to create a "Build a Tank Workshop" type thing and i ended up doing something along those lines...you pick a frame which gives you a statline and base cost and go from there. Otherwise its just too clunky/messy to allow full customization (and they are NOT going that far for orks lol)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/03 16:55:25
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
2021/11/03 16:58:09
Subject: Re:Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote: Kinda zogged that we’re just getting the wagon/fortress looted vehicles. With them being crusade they could have done actual looted rules.
Its possible those are the 3 profiles offered as a base but the wargear is rather varied and based on scrap used rather than powerlevel changes.
I've tried my hand in the past (7th edition) to create a "Build a Tank Workshop" type thing and i ended up doing something along those lines...you pick a frame which gives you a statline and base cost and go from there. Otherwise its just too clunky/messy to allow full customization (and they are NOT going that far for orks lol)
I was kind of hoping that since it was crusade they’d pull out all the stops and just use 3rd edition looting stuff. You just get someone else’s vehicle, set it to bs 2, and bob’s your uncle.
"Us Blood Axes hav lernt' a lot from da humies. How best ta kill 'em, fer example."
— Korporal Snagbrat of the Dreadblade Kommandos
2021/11/03 16:59:47
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
That would be somewhat problematic in 9th since theres a lot of rules you wouldnt get anymore, and also a handful that normally that unit wouldnt get.
More importantly, stratagem differences. Good deal of vehicles for other armies live or die by that 1 strat.
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
2021/11/03 17:08:13
Subject: Re:Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
True I guess, those profiles for the looted vehicles are just going to be godawful though. Most likely just ripped straight from 8th.
Also, I feel like if you just have looted vehicles ramshackle they wouldn’t be half terrible, maybe just give the option to strap on more guns, or just discount the vehicle.
Then again, you might get Goff boyz zooming around in cheaper raiders.
"Us Blood Axes hav lernt' a lot from da humies. How best ta kill 'em, fer example."
— Korporal Snagbrat of the Dreadblade Kommandos
2021/11/04 10:48:05
Subject: Re:Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
I've been rejigging my list a bit. I've been trying to keep away from fully spamming any one thing, but still leaning into the big alpha strike.
Went from Outrider/Patrol/Patrol to double Outrider and dropped the Squigboss and Smasha Squigs to make room for more koptas and bikes. The list has ended up faster and feels like it's a bit more cohesive and efficient.
The squig characters were good, but I feel like once my opponents caught on to their offensive/defensive capabilities they started getting dealt with before they could have any real impact. I also give up less assassinate points. The extra koptas and bikes dish out a boatload of damage at range and tidy up in CC, which has evened out the gap caused by the loss of the squigs MW output. I still have squig bombs and tankbusta bomb strat for MWs if I need them though.
Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote: True I guess, those profiles for the looted vehicles are just going to be godawful though. Most likely just ripped straight from 8th.
Also, I feel like if you just have looted vehicles ramshackle they wouldn’t be half terrible, maybe just give the option to strap on more guns, or just discount the vehicle.
Then again, you might get Goff boyz zooming around in cheaper raiders.
i actually like them being in crusade where you don't get the min max players in the mix(well not as many). I don't trust GW to make balanced rules so inside 20 min there will be math on which version is the best for the points and all other options would get itched to the wayside. I live the idea of looted wagons and most my trukks and battlewagons are counts as battlewagons and counts as trukks as they are looted vehicles from other factions, I don't think any 2 trukks or battlewagons should look alike.
10000 points 7000 6000 5000 5000 2000
2021/11/04 11:58:30
Subject: Re:Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Afrodactyl wrote: I've been rejigging my list a bit. I've been trying to keep away from fully spamming any one thing, but still leaning into the big alpha strike.
Went from Outrider/Patrol/Patrol to double Outrider and dropped the Squigboss and Smasha Squigs to make room for more koptas and bikes. The list has ended up faster and feels like it's a bit more cohesive and efficient.
The squig characters were good, but I feel like once my opponents caught on to their offensive/defensive capabilities they started getting dealt with before they could have any real impact. I also give up less assassinate points. The extra koptas and bikes dish out a boatload of damage at range and tidy up in CC, which has evened out the gap caused by the loss of the squigs MW output. I still have squig bombs and tankbusta bomb strat for MWs if I need them though.
Also posted in the Army List subforum if we want to avoid clutter here.
Your list is good. It looks fun and competitive. Although I think the campaign book will slightly alter competitive builds since they are throwing a bunch of rules into our best units/clans. So you might have to rejigger again soon.
2021/11/04 14:19:32
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Blood Axe stuff so far looks meh outside the Fight Detecta.
Seems kinda dumb, if not unexpected, that the speed freek detachment doesn't get kulturs (evil sunz? wut). A lot of their ruleset basically gives us Ravenwing-lite rules, which is good assuming we can give them the our buggies, since it gives some needed mobility for our shorter ranged weapons for scrapjets and an invuln not reliant on a KFF. Feel like it does less for warbikers though.
Blood Axes strats are kinda weird, not sure how its worth 2CP to basically become Goffs in combat but with the additional condition of having multiple Blood Axe units in a fight.
2021/11/04 14:39:18
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Blood Axe stuff so far looks meh outside the Fight Detecta.
Seems kinda dumb, if not unexpected, that the speed freek detachment doesn't get kulturs (evil sunz? wut). A lot of their ruleset basically gives us Ravenwing-lite rules, which is good assuming we can give them the our buggies, since it gives some needed mobility for our shorter ranged weapons for scrapjets and an invuln not reliant on a KFF. Feel like it does less for warbikers though.
Blood Axes strats are kinda weird, not sure how its worth 2CP to basically become Goffs in combat but with the additional condition of having multiple Blood Axe units in a fight.
Yeah so far the Blood Axe stuff is not exciting. Restrictive and expensive strats (2 CP and you don't count characters towards 2+ BA units). Blood Axes already are pretty underwhelming outside buggy spam so unless they get a lot more we haven't seen seems like a big miss.
2021/11/04 14:43:10
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
I mean removing cover from a unit for 1cp for all blood axe units isn’t bad especially with kommandos able to get within 12in turn 1. That removes a decent amount of first turn protection a lot of armies use.
The fighta detector is tricky to use but can be pretty strong.
Speed freaks are decent since you can mix a clan with the speed freak clan. And since this allows your bikes to be objective secured so (75pts for a min squad of troops) you get extremely durable obj secured units that have 5+ invul and -1 to hit and 6tougness with multiple wounds. It still benefits from speedwaagh and no longer worries about firing while advancing penalty. The +1 to atk while useful on bikers i don’t feel thier melee is amazing.
But rerolling wound rolls of 1 (including shooting) on all atks is pretty great warlord trait. I mean a warboss buffing a unit of rukkatruk squigbuggies is pretty powerful.
Ultimately taking any of this stuff weakens the freebooter clan kultur so I think that will reduce the competitive reliance on that clan… still alot more to learn too but it’s promising.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2021/11/04 14:56:44
2021/11/04 14:54:14
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Removing cover is alright if you're spamming BA buggies.
Agreed on the obsec bikes with 5++ though. My bikes have already served me well without obsec and they tend to get the least increase from my klan choices.
2021/11/04 14:58:18
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Dendarien wrote: Removing cover is alright if you're spamming BA buggies.
Agreed on the obsec bikes with 5++ though. My bikes have already served me well without obsec and they tend to get the least increase from my klan choices.
Why wouldn’t you spam BA buggies and a speedfreak detachment since the warlord gives all shooting within 6in reroll 1 to wound to any “speedfreak” keyword unit.. just put that trait on your big Mek w kff which is already in range and put him in a patrol w warbiker troops.
The speed freak detachment doesn’t remove klan like a specialist detachment it only removes the kultur!! This is what specialist mobs should have done… you do lose the blood axe kultur of being able to fallback and shoot if you place buggies in this detachment; which is a major reason to take bloodaxe buggies. I got to play with these new rules and see how to make this work. I might just make a detachment of klan bloodaxes and another detachment of speed freak and “klan something else” to give the warlord trait to someone and still allow my bloodaxe detachment with speedfreak keyword units to benefit from the speedfreak detachment strategems and warlord trait.
I’m sure the rules will prevent it but so far the preview doesn’t limit a speedfreak detachment from being a specialist mob…. So you lose the original klan keyword on that unit to become a specialist mob in a speedfreak detachment and get both abilities since niether are considered kulturs. I mean speed freak keyword specialist abilities are still pretty bad but it might make deffkopta boomboys or flyboys really good.
This message was edited 8 times. Last update was at 2021/11/04 15:53:23
2021/11/04 15:52:25
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Dendarien wrote: Removing cover is alright if you're spamming BA buggies.
Agreed on the obsec bikes with 5++ though. My bikes have already served me well without obsec and they tend to get the least increase from my klan choices.
Why wouldn’t you spam BA buggies in a speedfreak detachment since the warlord gives all shooting within 6in reroll 1 to wound.. just put that trait on your big Mek w kff which is already in range…
The speed freak detachment doesn’t remove klan like a specialist detachment it only removes the kultur!! This is what specialist mobs should have done… you do lose the blood axe kultur of being able to fallback and shoot which is a major reason to take bloodaxe buggies though. I got to play with these new rules and see how to make this work. I might just make a detachment with of bloodaxes and another detachment of speed freak and “klan” to give the warlord trait to someone and still allow my bloodaxe detachment with speedfreak keyword units to benefit from the speedfreak detachment abilities.
I’m sure the rules will prevent it but so far the preview doesn’t limit a speedfreak detachment from being a specialist mob…. So you lose the original klan keyword become a specialist mob in speedfreak detachment and get both abilities since niether are considered kulturs. I mean speed freak keyword specialist abilities are still pretty bad but it might make deffkopta boomboys or flyboys good.
I am pretty sure that when we will get the wording, a speedfreaks unit will not be able to be a specialist mob. We may dream, but IMO it is highly unlikely.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/04 15:53:06
Ere we go ere we go ere we go
Corona Givin’ Umies Da good ol Krulpin they deserve huh huh
2021/11/04 15:56:38
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Dendarien wrote: Removing cover is alright if you're spamming BA buggies.
Agreed on the obsec bikes with 5++ though. My bikes have already served me well without obsec and they tend to get the least increase from my klan choices.
Why wouldn’t you spam BA buggies in a speedfreak detachment since the warlord gives all shooting within 6in reroll 1 to wound.. just put that trait on your big Mek w kff which is already in range…
The speed freak detachment doesn’t remove klan like a specialist detachment it only removes the kultur!! This is what specialist mobs should have done… you do lose the blood axe kultur of being able to fallback and shoot which is a major reason to take bloodaxe buggies though. I got to play with these new rules and see how to make this work. I might just make a detachment with of bloodaxes and another detachment of speed freak and “klan” to give the warlord trait to someone and still allow my bloodaxe detachment with speedfreak keyword units to benefit from the speedfreak detachment abilities.
I’m sure the rules will prevent it but so far the preview doesn’t limit a speedfreak detachment from being a specialist mob…. So you lose the original klan keyword become a specialist mob in speedfreak detachment and get both abilities since niether are considered kulturs. I mean speed freak keyword specialist abilities are still pretty bad but it might make deffkopta boomboys or flyboys good.
I am pretty sure that when we will get the wording, a speedfreaks unit will not be able to be a specialist mob. We may dream, but IMO it is highly unlikely.
I’m sure as well and if it doesn’t that faq will likely fix it… although it really only helps deffkoptas as madboy bikers are still pretty useless and pyrobuggies is such a minimal increase.
2021/11/04 16:41:12
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
If we still get kulture bonuses alongside Speed Freak bonuses, then my Deathskulls Kommandos and Stormboys will love the bikes backing them suddenly being ObSec as well.
However the rest of the Speed Mob stuff is either going to have a caveat that it only effects Warbikers/Deffkoptas, or they will nerf the buggies into the ground because they've suddenly made a build people are complaining about even better.
2021/11/04 16:57:49
Subject: Re:Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
So the blood axe strats seem a bit terrible. The only use I can see for the fight detecta is maybe protecting your Warboss or something.
Here’s hoping the other relics, potentially other strats, and warlord traits are better.
"Us Blood Axes hav lernt' a lot from da humies. How best ta kill 'em, fer example."
— Korporal Snagbrat of the Dreadblade Kommandos
2021/11/04 17:00:19
Subject: Re:Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Eh, you're trading offense for defense and speed, more or less, so it would actually be less likely for a buggy gun-line to crush you in one turn as Adrenaline Junkies. You loose either the +1 to hit for FB or the ability to drop out of combat and shoot from BA, and gain a 5++ and +3.5" movement (since you'll always advance). Not a bad trade, but your max lethality does drop.
If we can stack Junkies and specialist mobs (and foot sloggers), though, Trukkboyz might be fun. You basically get a "not-Goff" with a free invul that can hurtle across the board. The bonus attack on the charge makes up for the exploding hits and +1S, and could even be better in cases where the +1S doesn't matter (fighting chaff or on MANz).
2021/11/04 17:06:18
Subject: Re:Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Trimarius wrote: Eh, you're trading offense for defense and speed, more or less, so it would actually be less likely for a buggy gun-line to crush you in one turn as Adrenaline Junkies. You loose either the +1 to hit for FB or the ability to drop out of combat and shoot from BA, and gain a 5++ and +3.5" movement (since you'll always advance). Not a bad trade, but your max lethality does drop.
If we can stack Junkies and specialist mobs (and foot sloggers), though, Trukkboyz might be fun. You basically get a "not-Goff" with a free invul that can hurtle across the board. The bonus attack on the charge makes up for the exploding hits and +1S, and could even be better in cases where the +1S doesn't matter (fighting chaff or on MANz).
Speed King gives you a reroll ones to wound aura, which probably levels out the lethality.
2021/11/04 17:08:17
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Fight Detecta is kinda pointless
Its a relatively small area, eats a relic, and vast majority of deepstrikes DONT want to be within 12" unless they are melee badasses and would not care if you charged them first all that much.
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
2021/11/04 17:17:01
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Afrodactyl wrote: If we still get kulture bonuses alongside Speed Freak bonuses, then my Deathskulls Kommandos and Stormboys will love the bikes backing them suddenly being ObSec as well.
However the rest of the Speed Mob stuff is either going to have a caveat that it only effects Warbikers/Deffkoptas, or they will nerf the buggies into the ground because they've suddenly made a build people are complaining about even better.
Klan kulturs don’t stack w speedfreak detachment bonus. We don’t know if a specialist mob can be in a speed freak detachment.
10k p fullpaint orks ready to krump! …
so you can wound T9 on a 4+ with Kommandos, but with Trukkboyz it would be a 6+.
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang. 
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
7000 
