Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Beardedragon wrote:
Hey guys, do any of you remember what the list was like with the 3 Kill tanks and ghaz and goffs? I cant find it anywhere. Id like to do something similar but i need a reference point.

I saved it for the future on 1d4chan




Automatically Appended Next Post:
The biggest issue with the this buggy nerf is tagging of the units. Now you have all buggies of one type in one unit.

Easy to tag.

On other side - easy to cover in KFF, cloud of smoke and spiked ram will vomit mortals like a hell.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Freeboota Warlord trait has finaly a use - add one to your Ld = safe your buggies and warbiker squads of 3 from fail.

And helps deffkoptas with their stupid Ld6.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Face to this nerf, Speed Mob from Critical mass seems to be even better, because it allows you to be more kunnin and actually score some points.

Overall I actually like the ork "nerfs": 2 flyers is already the limit I'd like to tolerate for 2000 points games and buggies we have 5 kinds of them, all viable at least.

2 Freebooters dakkajets will still do a lot of damage.

We didn't need 3+ flyers and that many scarpjets/squigbuggies to compete.

Personally I use to run 3 single scrapjets so I'm thinking about what to do, merging all models into a single squad for the first game probably but the huge footprint of a 3 vehicle squad is an issue. Maybe I'll replace them with two different buggies. Or feth it, I'll drop all three scrapjets for a Kill Tank

I’m still using 3 squigbuggies and 3 scrap jets not sure if this nerf does anything but make KJ useless…

I mean maybe I’ll have issues moving 3 scrapjets in a squadron and have to drop it to 2. But there is also huge bonuses for running 3x scrapjets like ramming speed, spiked ram, the new speed mob strat crashing through.

I think the only nerf this change really does is screw the shokk jump dragsta into a 1 model unit cause the teleport is just awful in squadrons and ruin all kustom jobs.

 Tomsug wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
Hey guys, do any of you remember what the list was like with the 3 Kill tanks and ghaz and goffs? I cant find it anywhere. Id like to do something similar but i need a reference point.

I saved it for the future on 1d4chan

Spoiler:

Marcus Robinson - 1st on Warhammer World Matched Play Event / Sep 21
++ Patrol Detachment -2CP (Orks) [46 PL, 9CP, 825pts] ++

Clan Kultur: Goffs

Detachment Command Cost [-2CP]

+ No Force Org Slot +

Nob on Smasha Squig [4 PL, 65pts]

+ HQ +

Big Mek in Mega Armour [6 PL, 115pts]: Kustom Force Field, Kustom Mega-Blasta

Warboss in Mega Armour [6 PL, -1CP, 115pts]: 4. Brutal but Kunnin, Da Krushin’ Armour, Stratagem: Big Boss

+ Troops +

Beast Snagga Boyz [5 PL, 115pts] . 8x Beast Snagga Boy: 8x Choppa, 8x Slugga . Beast Snagga Boy w/ Thump Gun: Thump Gun . Beast Snagga Nob

Beast Snagga Boyz [5 PL, 115pts] . 8x Beast Snagga Boy: 8x Choppa, 8x Slugga . Beast Snagga Boy w/ Thump Gun: Thump Gun . Beast Snagga Nob

+ Elites +

Meganobz [12 PL, 140pts] . Boss Meganob: Kustom Shoota, Power Klaw . Meganob: Kustom Shoota, Power Klaw . Meganob: Kustom Shoota, Power Klaw . Meganob: Kustom Shoota, Power Klaw

+ Fast Attack +

Squighog Boyz [4 PL, 80pts]: Bomb Squig . 3x Squighog Boy: 3x Saddlegit Weapons, 3x Squighog Jaws, 3x Stikka

Squighog Boyz [4 PL, 80pts]: Bomb Squig . 3x Squighog Boy: 3x Saddlegit Weapons, 3x Squighog Jaws, 3x Stikka

++ Super-Heavy Detachment -6CP (Orks) [45 PL, -6CP, 875pts] ++

Clan Kultur: Goffs

Detachment Command Cost [-6CP]

+ Lord of War +

Kill Tank [15 PL, 325pts]: Bursta Kannon

Kill Tank [15 PL, 275pts]: Giga Shoota

Kill Tank [15 PL, 275pts]: Giga Shoota

++ Supreme Command Detachment +2CP (Orks) [15 PL, 2CP, 300pts] ++

Clan Kultur: Goffs

Detachment Command Cost [2CP]

+ Primarch | Daemon Primarch | Supreme Commander +

Ghazghkull Thraka [15 PL, 300pts]

Total: 106 PL, 5CP, 2,000pts

Automatically Appended Next Post:
The biggest issue with the this buggy nerf is tagging of the units. Now you have all buggies of one type in one unit.

Easy to tag.

On other side - easy to cover in KFF, cloud of smoke and spiked ram will vomit mortals like a hell.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Freeboota Warlord trait has finaly a use - add one to your Ld = safe your buggies and warbiker squads of 3 from fail.

And helps deffkoptas with their stupid Ld6.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Face to this nerf, Speed Mob from Critical mass seems to be even better, because it allows you to be more kunnin and actually score some points.

thanks buddy, ive saved the list for future references aswell.

Ive been toying with the idea of putting a single kill tank for 1 CP in to a freebootas list. not sure if it will work or not though

After sleeping over the news (And deleting 80% of my battlescribe lists^^) I think besides the hustle to move around squads of 3 Scrapjets it's not too bad.

Guess my lists will take a Souped up Snazzwagon from now on, 13/17 shots in Speedwaagh has a similar output as a single Squigbuggy and 1-2 Boosta Blastas + 2 Dragstas will be ok as well.
Who'd thought the souped up Snazzwagon has a chance to become our most used Custom Job one day.

They can help with Engage, especially with the lack of Secondaries in a Speed Mob.

Also since we need to be a bit more carefull with our squad of 3 Scrapjets now & will have more CP sometimes, More Dakka will see more use I guess to keep them a bit safer.



While at first I thought this update was a nerf on Speedmob as well, I think its kind of an improvement as it buffs Warbikers and Koptas, who stayed unharmed and got more valid with the nerfs to the Squigbuggy / Scrapjet spam.
Looks like it's time to finish painting the remaining Koptas and Bikes now.

I mean speed mob has no lack of Strats to use now… probably partly why I like it.

I’m leaning toward 2 boostas
instead of snazzwagon..
i like the reroll 1-2 strat better (plus spiked ram strat) then the extra hit on 6 when falling back on snazz.
Also pyromaniacs on boosta in speedmob makes them a lot more reliable damage.

I agree though this nerf isn’t bad but it doesn’t fix buggy issues all it does is ruin kustom jobs.. and while most kustom jobs suck… that doesn’t mean I want to never have the chance to use them.

This nerf solve a little bit the spam buggy issue. But mostly the AIRCRAFT issue, which has 2 big aspects:

1. The whole 9th is a lot about reduce the gofirst=win issue. And the main instrument to do it is the terrain. If you can hide, you will survive T1 going second. AIRCRAFTS go around it and see everything, everywhere.

2. There is a problem with AIRCRAFT bases. De facto you can screen your army with something in the sky that is impossible to charge from the ground. In small numbers - ok, skip it. But if you use 6 or 9 jets and make a thick wall from planes in front of your army blocking any way to charge what is behind, that it is really on the edge of abusing the rules. Well, it can be solved fo example some way like pipes are. But it can create another issues.

So GW solved both of these problems in one. Simply reduce the number of jets.

… Imagine you can play 3 wazboom, 3 dakkajet and 9 squigbuggies before nerf. You don' t need any tactics. Just shoot.
I spoke with one dude who played 3+3jets recently and he said, that he will not gonna play this “cancer” anymore, that he feels like dick.

Speed Mob focusing on more complicated tricks seems to be more fun and fair way to play.

I mean you can still screen with 2 jets it’s just less space to cover….. and you still get decent shooting as most people didn’t play with 4-6 they played 2-3 at least for orks…
And buggies you can still spam 9-12 buggies but it’s now only limited to 6 squig and scraps which I guess is the nerf… but this could have been done with a simple max 3 model limit instead of a single unit which ruins kustom jobs. And it’s not like KBB or shokk jump is bad they just have slightly different roles. Bottom line I’m still spamming 8 buggies it’s now just 3 squigs, 3 scraps, 2 KBB and if I really feel the need for another buggy a solo shokkjump. I just feel the nerf was poorly done and ruined an entire section of our codex that had nothing to do with competitive 40K but was used more for fun match games that isn’t available anymore because of poorly thought out rules writing.

gungo wrote:
I mean you can still screen with 2 jets it’s just less space to cover….. and you still get decent shooting as most people didn’t play with 4-6 they played 2-3 at least for orks…
And buggies you can still spam 9-12 buggies but it’s now only limited to 6 squig and scraps which I guess is the nerf… but this could have been done with a simple max 3 model limit instead of a single unit which ruins kustom jobs. And it’s not like KBB or shokk jump is bad they just have slightly different roles. Bottom line I’m still spamming 8 buggies it’s now just 3 squigs, 3 scraps, 2 KBB and if I really feel the need for another buggy a solo shokkjump. I just feel the nerf was poorly done and ruined an entire section of our codex that had nothing to do with competitive 40K but was used more for fun match games that isn’t available anymore because of poorly thought out rules writing.

Yes. What else to say.

I see the point in airscraft limit.

The rest is just a mess and the effect is very questionable.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote:
I’m glad orks never change, we’re already back to being the off-meta it seems.

I can't help but feel the irony in comments like this while people claim this FAQ by GW was knee jerk.

How is this ironic? This has been the de facto setting for orkz for a few editions now. We are counter-meta and anytime we see some form of competitive success there are calls to nerf us to hell and back. Look at last edition, you had people complain that boyz were OP....8ppm Boyz were OP! Think about that, T4 6+ save...but totally OP. Why? Because every meta list was running plasma/melta spam or similar weapon spam. Nobody brought anti-horde because nobody needed to, Nidz were a joke, GSC weren't doing well, IG were bringing tanks, so it was just orkz running 120-180 Boyz that was pissing people off. Were Boyz OP last edition? Nope, but it screwed with the Meta and made players either address a fundamental flaw in their list (no ability to deal with cheap infantry en mass) or to lose and give the Orkz a victory based on their inability to deal with an easy problem.

Are Ork buggies OP? no, its just counter meta. Again, the DE Player who was beaten at SoCal open had 5 Blasters total...5 weapons capable of dealing with vehicles. He was relying on Low strength high AP attacks with multi-dmg to deal with any vehicles he ran into...or to put it another way, the worst possible build against ork vehicles with ramshackle. So this isn't ironic, its stereotypical.

 Tomsug wrote:
We are and we will be a serious threat.
Today is a time to be angry and complain, but we will be fine.
Delete the “if go first, kill everything” kind of the list is always good and this time it was our turn.
I just don' t like the “system” they use for this nerf. It makes a mess and it is stupid.
And it does not solve the problem.
The problem is, that we have no chance to score. So we need to delete enemy ASAP. So any kind of our succesfull list will be “if go first, kill everything” kind of the list and the story will be the same.
Fix ork secondaries and orks start to be kunnin.

And this is the problem. The ork archetype is flimsy units with little durability but incredibly cheap. For every Space Marine we should be able to take 3-4 Boyz, for every Leman Russ we should be taking 3-4 Buggies etc. With the new points costs for ork units, we are no longer "cheap" but we are still somewhat flimsy, the new ramshackle has helped a bit but realistically, if an enemy wants to pop a couple buggies....hes going to pop a couple buggies. So Ork armies right now are alphork strike or at most Beta strike because we don't have the staying power to keep competing much later than that if we don't remove a significant portion of the enemy turn 1-2.

 Blackie wrote:
Overall I actually like the ork "nerfs": 2 flyers is already the limit I'd like to tolerate for 2000 points games and buggies we have 5 kinds of them, all viable at least.

2 Freebooters dakkajets will still do a lot of damage.

We didn't need 3+ flyers and that many scarpjets/squigbuggies to compete.

Personally I use to run 3 single scrapjets so I'm thinking about what to do, merging all models into a single squad for the first game probably but the huge footprint of a 3 vehicle squad is an issue. Maybe I'll replace them with two different buggies. Or feth it, I'll drop all three scrapjets for a Kill Tank

I'm not a fan of the flyer nerf for a few reasons, the biggest being that I own 3 flyers and now have little to no chance to use them all in a game...mind you, I haven't been running buggy/flyer spam with freeboota this edition.

Think about this though, GW just artificially limited flyers to 2 in a 2k point game...that means for orkz that we can only take 240pts of Flyers (Dakkajets) it also heavily nerfs any reason to take the Wazbom since its KFF is kind of pointless if its only guarding 1 other model besides itself. Put that in comparison to the new/crappy KFF, for 30pts you can protect a 12' bubble of units! with a 6+ I consider that to be garbage but you can easily cover a HUGE section of your army with a 6++ Invuln with relative ease since they just need to touch the bubble for the entire unit to benefit from it.

I just am not a fan of GW arbitrarily changing unit sizes after a lot of people have close to the max sized currently. I mentioned it before but this new edition I have lost access to Mek gunz, stormboyz, warbikes because I have too many. I also lost the use of most of my boyz but at least those are because they now suck rather than the unit size being FORCIBLY changed to 10.

I still think the buggy nerf will be undone once they decide how to properly balance rukkatrukks and scrapjets. Otherwise they're nerfing three other units that don't need a nerf.

pfft like GW cares about that sort of thing.
Look at Guard, they have a plane that can be squadroned. Except now it cant bring a full squad because its limited to 2 aircraft MODELS not units lol

Not a competitive thing by any stretch of the imagination, but was still something some guard players liked doing.

SemperMortis wrote:


I'm not a fan of the flyer nerf for a few reasons, the biggest being that I own 3 flyers and now have little to no chance to use them all in a game...mind you, I haven't been running buggy/flyer spam with freeboota this edition.

Well, you could still run all three in bigger games. And unless they're fully magnetized or modelled in the same way it's not like one of those three models is specifically banned from 2k games, if they're different you can choose between all of them.

I admit I'm biased toward flyers because I hate them, playing against two still annoys me a lot .


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Afrodactyl wrote:
I still think the buggy nerf will be undone once they decide how to properly balance rukkatrukks and scrapjets. Otherwise they're nerfing three other units that don't need a nerf.

The three other units have actually been buffed by this patch. No one was bringing 4+ of them anyway and now they have more chances to show up! Max 3 of each buggy is still a lot of buggies.

 Blackie wrote:
Overall I actually like the ork "nerfs": 2 flyers is already the limit I'd like to tolerate for 2000 points games and buggies we have 5 kinds of them, all viable at least.

2 Freebooters dakkajets will still do a lot of damage.

We didn't need 3+ flyers and that many scarpjets/squigbuggies to compete.

Personally I use to run 3 single scrapjets so I'm thinking about what to do, merging all models into a single squad for the first game probably but the huge footprint of a 3 vehicle squad is an issue. Maybe I'll replace them with two different buggies. Or feth it, I'll drop all three scrapjets for a Kill Tank

Having more than two fliers should absolutely be allowed. I was zoggin makin a flya wing. No more airwaagh

To be fair flyer nerf is match play only….
Leaving open or narrative play… I generally play narrative crusade play with friends. It allows them to use old legend models and other non competitive fun stuff with points… I mean it’s hard to bring 3 flyers in a pick up store game though as that’s really match play to prevent abusive gak. I’m fine w the aircraft nerf but I only used 2 flyers, but I think it a gak fix since this doesn’t address the real problem which is flyer base blocking assaults… so now the opposing player only needs to move an additional 6+ inches to go around the wall of 2x flyer bases? I mean that doesn’t solve the problem it just lessens it…but I can live with the flyer nerf as I don’t think there is a good fix regardless.

The aircraft change should have been tournament only though as that’s really where the issues are…

And NO the other buggies weren’t buffed… I mean shokk jump took the buggy nerf the hardest. It is literally useless with 3 buggy size unit as you are never going to be able to use the jump ability.. it is pretty much relegated to a single model all the time now.

 Afrodactyl wrote:
I still think the buggy nerf will be undone once they decide how to properly balance rukkatrukks and scrapjets. Otherwise they're nerfing three other units that don't need a nerf.

do you really think GW is capable of undoing stuff they fethed up? They are not. The fact our other buggies were hit is just collateral damage for them

My biggest frustration is that I can't hardly buy/build/paint a model before the rules get changed. I order 3 squigbuggies when the codex came out, and finally received them maybe a month ago.

There is almost no incentive to buy new models, knowing that if they are good, they will be nerfed before you can even use them.

 Blackie wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:


I'm not a fan of the flyer nerf for a few reasons, the biggest being that I own 3 flyers and now have little to no chance to use them all in a game...mind you, I haven't been running buggy/flyer spam with freeboota this edition.

Well, you could still run all three in bigger games. And unless they're fully magnetized or modelled in the same way it's not like one of those three models is specifically banned from 2k games, if they're different you can choose between all of them.

I admit I'm biased toward flyers because I hate them, playing against two still annoys me a lot .


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Afrodactyl wrote:
I still think the buggy nerf will be undone once they decide how to properly balance rukkatrukks and scrapjets. Otherwise they're nerfing three other units that don't need a nerf.

The three other units have actually been buffed by this patch. No one was bringing 4+ of them anyway and now they have more chances to show up! Max 3 of each buggy is still a lot of buggies.

A unit isnt buffed by other things being nerfed. It just equals the gak really. They will probably see play, but they were not buffed.

I’m just worried that despite blasting buggies and making that third Dakkajet all lonely, they’re not going to teeth up the rest of our dex. I think all our infantry units could use a point drop, literally all of em.

 Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote:
I’m just worried that despite blasting buggies and making that third Dakkajet all lonely, they’re not going to teeth up the rest of our dex. I think all our infantry units could use a point drop, literally all of em.

Well. our infantry shooting should benefit from one of the waaaghs which they dont right now. Meaning theres no point in bringing lots of infantry shooting barring burna boys maybe, because they will miss out on that sweet waaaagh bonus.

A side tangent, but I wish we had gotten custom waaaaghs. Pick your big primary trait that lasts a turn, then your secondary trait that lasts 2. Maybe get an option for a primary/secondary depending on the klan.

 Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote:
I’m just worried that despite blasting buggies and making that third Dakkajet all lonely, they’re not going to teeth up the rest of our dex. I think all our infantry units could use a point drop, literally all of em.

Aside from kommandos, I agree, they are just so bad... If orks vnish from tournament results then I guess we wait for 3 months and then we get our infantry point drop though, right ? Thats is the "new" (as of yesterday) GW.

Beardedragon wrote:

 Afrodactyl wrote:
I still think the buggy nerf will be undone once they decide how to properly balance rukkatrukks and scrapjets. Otherwise they're nerfing three other units that don't need a nerf.

do you really think GW is capable of undoing stuff they fethed up? They are not. The fact our other buggies were hit is just collateral damage for them

I can dream

 Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote:
I’m just worried that despite blasting buggies and making that third Dakkajet all lonely, they’re not going to teeth up the rest of our dex. I think all our infantry units could use a point drop, literally all of em.

Kommandos are perfect where they are, they don't need anything to make them better, a point drop would flat out make them OP.

I would like Stormboyz to stay the same price but get 5+ armor, Boyz...there isn't any way to fix boyz primary issue with just a points drop. You can make them 7ppm, and all that will do is change out some lists to take a unit of trukkboyz instead of taking the CP tax for no troops.

Foot sloggin boyz, even at T5 are just too squishy to have an impact on the game, especially when all of their dmg is done in CC which means you will be struggling to get them into CC by turn 3 which in turn means your opponent has at a minimum 2 full turns to blast the hell out of them. They especially don't work well in the freeboota meta play since they don' tmatch up with anything. The only way I could see boyz making a valid return in the game would be to allow the trukk boyz buff to work on ANY trukk rather than just 1 per detachment. In other words, without a reliable way to deliver them turn 1 or turn 2 at the latest you just can't make them worth taking for anything beyond objective holding and we have a lot of other units that are better at holding objectives.

In some lighthearted good news

2 more datasheets for evil sun characters are in this months white dwarf…. I assume crusade but who feking knows as it doesn’t say… like grukk facerippa and the goff rocker last ork release… feel free to zoom onto the preview to see.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/11/10/the-cities-of-sigmar-the-speediest-orks-and-a-fellowship-of-battle-reports-in-white-dwarf-470/

The Theaters of War Missions are the Narrative Missions we got in the Psychic Awakening books, so it probably won't be for matched play as the article mentions theater of war.

But maybe the characters will actually get a matched play profile - as far as I know the Theaters of War Missions only contained mission specific Strategems and no data sheets.
But hey, who nows!

At least many of us have spare (Buggy) models now for fun Speedwaagh vs Speedwaagh games like the Speed Freaks box

SemperMortis wrote:

 Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote:
I’m just worried that despite blasting buggies and making that third Dakkajet all lonely, they’re not going to teeth up the rest of our dex. I think all our infantry units could use a point drop, literally all of em.

Kommandos are perfect where they are, they don't need anything to make them better, a point drop would flat out make them OP.

I would like Stormboyz to stay the same price but get 5+ armor, Boyz...there isn't any way to fix boyz primary issue with just a points drop. You can make them 7ppm, and all that will do is change out some lists to take a unit of trukkboyz instead of taking the CP tax for no troops.

Foot sloggin boyz, even at T5 are just too squishy to have an impact on the game, especially when all of their dmg is done in CC which means you will be struggling to get them into CC by turn 3 which in turn means your opponent has at a minimum 2 full turns to blast the hell out of them. They especially don't work well in the freeboota meta play since they don' tmatch up with anything. The only way I could see boyz making a valid return in the game would be to allow the trukk boyz buff to work on ANY trukk rather than just 1 per detachment. In other words, without a reliable way to deliver them turn 1 or turn 2 at the latest you just can't make them worth taking for anything beyond objective holding and we have a lot of other units that are better at holding objectives.

I think a lot could be done to make boyz better:

1) Reduce boyz points to 8ppm

2) Reduce the trukk points to 55-60 points

3) Reduce the painboy to 60 points.

4) Let shootas be Assault 3 or let them remain Dakka 2/3 but with S4AP1. Adding 6" to their range could also be contemplated.

5) Give them +1 LD when close to a warboss and +1 LD when close to a Banner Nob and +1 LD when more than 15 models. Cumulative.

6) Instead of having a "grot shield" stratagam, make grot shields an innate Boyz ability like this: Grot shields: Everytime you remove an ork boyz model as a casualty, you can instead remove a Gretchin model within 3". Not huge, but it allows you to add 5 ppm ablative wounds to a boyz mob.

7) I think Kommandos are really good, and Stormboyz are fine as they are, and both units are often taken in competetive lists.

8) I dont like the idea of allowing all boyz be trukkboyz in a list. It wouldn't fix our troop slot, it would just make it possible to make gimmicky skew lists.

pismakron wrote:
I think a lot could be done to make boyz better:

1) Reduce boyz points to 8ppm

2) Reduce the trukk points to 55-60 points

3) Reduce the painboy to 60 points.

Pain boy could probably even drop to 50 without breaking anything. The assassination secondary is already a decent counter-weight.

4) Let shootas be Assault 3 or let them remain Dakka 2/3 but with S4AP1. Adding 6" to their range could also be contemplated.

Try running them as bad moons once... +6" doesn't do gak. I'm not sure how to buff them, but currently there are next to no units in the game that are successful with bolter equivalent weapons unless they can generate a ton of stratagem-buffed hits with them.

5) Give them +1 LD when close to a warboss and +1 LD when close to a Banner Nob and +1 LD when more than 15 models. Cumulative.

+2 ld near warboss or +1 ld near any kind of nob (not stacking) is probably a more fluffy way to put it without making it "ignore morale" again. You could also bring back boss poles as upgrade (used to re-roll morale checks for the unit).

6) Instead of having a "grot shield" stratagam, make grot shields an innate Boyz ability like this: Grot shields: Everytime you remove an ork boyz model as a casualty, you can instead remove a Gretchin model within 3". Not huge, but it allows you to add 5 ppm ablative wounds to a boyz mob.

You could also do something like gretchin provide a 5++ to INFANTRY behind them, but every successful save kills a grot.

Grotshields should be a permanent ability on 5+ / or 6+ with the strategem pushing it to a 3+ or 4+.
2+ was nice in 8th but was a bit much.

Boss pole should come back and work like breaking heads or give us auto-pass on 1-2.

I would only consider a Dok if he was incredibly good as rolling save + FnP is really annoying on large mobs.

For a revised Mob Rule that isn't just "ignore morale" I thought cumulative Ld bonuses based on nearby models was the way to go, but once again numbers based like it was before. Something like "+1 if this unit contains at least 20 models, +1 if this unit is within 9" of at least one other Ork unit with 10 or more models". Ld9 is perfectly breakable with the sorts of numbers you'd lose on large mobs to shooting, but not auto-break like it is currently.