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I don’t play dread mob much, butttt, if I had to choose one immediate thing (or two) itd be ramshackle working on all strength (plus old 6+ reduce damage to 1 on top of it). Walkerz only of course.

DoktaRoksta wrote:
I’m gonna be playing again at the weekend and we’re gradually upping the points so it will be a 1000 pt list. Last time I ended up facing a tank gun line so it may be the case again. I’m going to put my Deffcoptas on the list and people have been getting good results with these. Last time I charged mine at a redemptor and they got swatted (so I won’t be repeating that), any tips for tactics or stratagems?

What other units do you have available?

I would try take it down with koptas, scrapjets, Wazboms or KMKs if you're using them; anything that is firing lots of Rokkits or other dedicated anti tank weapons. Anything with MW output is good as well, including Ramming Speed or Bomb Squigs.

Kopta melee is great for chewing through chaff infantry and sniping weaker characters, I wouldn't suggest charging them into a Redemptor unless it only has 2-3 wounds left.

Dear Orky Claus, I was very nice warboss and krump a lot. And because I have already too many orks, I wish somethin to someone else:

1. Mega Dread and Meka Dreads to come to the list of available unit for Big Krumpas.
2. Kannonwagon to get the WAGON keyword.
3. Stompa to get price reduction.
4. Stompa and Gorko and Morkonauts and other huge models to get “count as 5” or similar while contesting for the objective.
5. Big Trakk to became a Dedicated Transport

Cheers!

 Afrodactyl wrote:

DoktaRoksta wrote:
I’m gonna be playing again at the weekend and we’re gradually upping the points so it will be a 1000 pt list. Last time I ended up facing a tank gun line so it may be the case again. I’m going to put my Deffcoptas on the list and people have been getting good results with these. Last time I charged mine at a redemptor and they got swatted (so I won’t be repeating that), any tips for tactics or stratagems?

What other units do you have available?

I would try take it down with koptas, scrapjets, Wazboms or KMKs if you're using them; anything that is firing lots of Rokkits or other dedicated anti tank weapons. Anything with MW output is good as well, including Ramming Speed or Bomb Squigs.

Kopta melee is great for chewing through chaff infantry and sniping weaker characters, I wouldn't suggest charging them into a Redemptor unless it only has 2-3 wounds left.

I’m a bit limited in what I have to field whereas my opponent has unlimited choice.

I was going to run 2 patrols.






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I could swap one unit of hogs for bikers but like the MW from the smasha squigs.

I also have a deffdread, beast snagga and shoota boys but I don’t fancy more infantry.


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So any tips for the coptas or the list in general?

 Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote:
I don’t play dread mob much, butttt, if I had to choose one immediate thing (or two) itd be ramshackle working on all strength (plus old 6+ reduce damage to 1 on top of it). Walkerz only of course.

Ramshackle is already very strong…
However I do think snakebites need thier da old ways kultur to change to remove the max 8 str and limit that part of kultur to cavalry, infantry and monsters.

I do however think dreads need an army buff.
I think we need a dread Waagh army of renown
This army can include big meks/meks, walkers, wagons, lootas, burnas, mekguns, wazbom and trukks.
Killakans become objective secured
+3 cp for spearhead detachment if warlord in it
Walkers and bigmek/meks gain a new army wide ability “dreadmob”
Dread mob units don’t gain kultur
+1 atk on charge or heroic intervention
Advance and charge to all dread mob units
Each time this unit advances roll an additional d6 and take highest results
The Dread mob warlord gain the following ability:
“the dread waaaghhh!” Once per battle
1) +1 to hit (1 turn only)
2) +1 atk for each Dakka weapon (2 turns)

Warlord trait-
“Da kleverest boss”
(Aura) reroll hit rolls of 1

Kustom job-
“kustom armor”
15pts/30pts- gives a walker -1 to damage received

Mek kustom job-
“Supa tellyport blasta”
15pts- 2d6 atks, 18in range

Relic-
“Mega force field”
5++ kff

Specialist mob-
“Da Biggest Dakka” lootas only
15/30pts- -+1damage -1ap to Dakka wpns in unit

Strategems

2cp
“Dakka Dakka Dakka”
Shoot twice on “dread mob” unit

1cp
“Stampede”
4+ chance for D3 mortal wounds on charge per model on a walkerz unit

1cp
“Da biggest boss”
2+ ws, +1wd, 4++

New Metawatch article is out, and GW sure did a great job balancing orkz. We went from placing in the top 8 in a lot of events to having 0 lists in the top 16 in Austin.

Also, did you guys read the list they mentioned in the article? 2 detachments, 1 with Freeboota and 1 with deathskullz, split almost 50/50 but the warlord I believe was the freeboota warboss on warbike meaning he went with speedwaaagh, but almost none of his army really benefits from either kulture or WAAAAGH.

In his freeboota list the only units that really benefit from that kulture were the two wazboms, in his Deathskullz detachment nothing really benefitted from the speedwaaagh because he was using Grot Mega tanks and a Dread to make up the majority of his detachment.

SemperMortis wrote:
New Metawatch article is out, and GW sure did a great job balancing orkz. We went from placing in the top 8 in a lot of events to having 0 lists in the top 16 in Austin.

Also, did you guys read the list they mentioned in the article? 2 detachments, 1 with Freeboota and 1 with deathskullz, split almost 50/50 but the warlord I believe was the freeboota warboss on warbike meaning he went with speedwaaagh, but almost none of his army really benefits from either kulture or WAAAAGH.

In his freeboota list the only units that really benefit from that kulture were the two wazboms, in his Deathskullz detachment nothing really benefitted from the speedwaaagh because he was using Grot Mega tanks and a Dread to make up the majority of his detachment.

I mean it's probably "working as intended" in GW's eyes. As we've mentioned before in previous discussions, the general community and GW itself doesn't seem to like Orks being taken seriously on a competitive level for some reason. We're all goofballs and rainbows until we start winning games, then you get the Imperial boot put on your dirty green neck for daring to compete with the "civilized" races. I feel part of it is that the people who play Imperial and other FoTM factions just are a loud minority that GW unfortunately listens to.

Itz coz we’d da only wunz ‘avin fun.

Grot units fully profit from speed waaagh - there is no restriction for them... so a skorcha megatank with 7d6 autohits at S5 -2 Ap is actually quite decent...

SemperMortis wrote:
New Metawatch article is out, and GW sure did a great job balancing orkz. We went from placing in the top 8 in a lot of events to having 0 lists in the top 16 in Austin.

Also, did you guys read the list they mentioned in the article? 2 detachments, 1 with Freeboota and 1 with deathskullz, split almost 50/50 but the warlord I believe was the freeboota warboss on warbike meaning he went with speedwaaagh, but almost none of his army really benefits from either kulture or WAAAAGH.

In his freeboota list the only units that really benefit from that kulture were the two wazboms, in his Deathskullz detachment nothing really benefitted from the speedwaaagh because he was using Grot Mega tanks and a Dread to make up the majority of his detachment.

doesnt the new meta article generally just talk about win rates for turn 1s?

In that case, that most are centered around 50% is pretty decent.


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Bossdoc wrote:
Grot units fully profit from speed waaagh - there is no restriction for them... so a skorcha megatank with 7d6 autohits at S5 -2 Ap is actually quite decent...

they are indeed. I ran 2 of them in my previous speed waaagh i went to tournement with.

SemperMortis wrote:
New Metawatch article is out, and GW sure did a great job balancing orkz. We went from placing in the top 8 in a lot of events to having 0 lists in the top 16 in Austin.

Also, did you guys read the list they mentioned in the article? 2 detachments, 1 with Freeboota and 1 with deathskullz, split almost 50/50 but the warlord I believe was the freeboota warboss on warbike meaning he went with speedwaaagh, but almost none of his army really benefits from either kulture or WAAAAGH.

In his freeboota list the only units that really benefit from that kulture were the two wazboms, in his Deathskullz detachment nothing really benefitted from the speedwaaagh because he was using Grot Mega tanks and a Dread to make up the majority of his detachment.

I fully agree that GW Metawatch is a bizzare out of this word. It is so absurd I struggle to find the right terms. Is it super perverz intention? Or some absurd form of humor?

On other side, I don' t agree a about shooting orkz down. Look at the last Goonhammer - https://www.goonhammer.com/competitive-innovations-in-9th-to-the-finish-line/

There is a lot of interesting ork list in couple of variations. On almost every tournament. Well, it is of course not everywhere like Drukhary. But who cares about Drukhary. They are like Kelly Family.

Agree with Tomsug - outside of whatever fairytail wonderland GW is taking their competitive data from, orks are doing absolutely fine, sporting not just one broken build but three different archetypes regularly appearing in any of the top10 spots.
Even if you look at overall win stats, we are still looking a comfortable 55-58% win rate, which is absolutely fine, almost bordering "too strong" territory.

And even inside those three archetypes (melee pressure, buggy shooting, speed mob), there are hardly any cookie-cutter builds, but lots and lots of units and variants see play. Heck someone just won an even using the foot beastboss and beastsnagga boyz.

This is objectively the best spot orks have ever been in since 5th, probably even better than that.

 Jidmah wrote:
Agree with Tomsug - outside of whatever fairytail wonderland GW is taking their competitive data from, orks are doing absolutely fine, sporting not just one broken build but three different archetypes regularly appearing in any of the top10 spots.
Even if you look at overall win stats, we are still looking a comfortable 55-58% win rate, which is absolutely fine, almost bordering "too strong" territory.

And even inside those three archetypes (melee pressure, buggy shooting, speed mob), there are hardly any cookie-cutter builds, but lots and lots of units and variants see play. Heck someone just won an even using the foot beastboss and beastsnagga boyz.

This is objectively the best spot orks have ever been in since 5th, probably even better than that.

No idea about 5th ed orks, I play since 8th but I agree we are very fine. Don t forgot to mention Sempers Horde, which is - and I still say it and mean it seriously - undiscovered treasure.

Semper's alphork very much fits the goff/ES pressure archetype we are seeing, he just trades more speed for less hitting power.

Just to be sure - Blood Axe Speed Mob Bikers can advance + do action + shoot, right?

If you use that strat blood axe can shoot and do action and advance regardless if they are speed mob.

Any klan can be a speed mob and complete an action OR shoot… speed mob counts as making a normal move during movement and shooting phase however you can’t normally complete an action and shoot.

Well, I don ´t think so. I have to disagree with myself…

Unit count as “until the end of the shooting phase”.

Action ends on the end of the turn or beginning of next command phase.

So from shootinh phase units already advanced. And according the core rules this means, action failed.

Read the second part again
If you advance during the movement phase until end of shooting phase it counts as a normal move…
U take an action like deploy homers at the end the movement phase. You move and advance before you take that action..which still counts as a normal move…

The action from the stuff you listed only fails for stuff that occurs AFTER you start the action. The advance and move happened BEFORE you take that action… speedmob has nothing to do with preventing the action from failing.

The part you are missing is the paragraph before everything you posted where it says you can’t perform an action if you advance this turn. However speed mob makes it count as a normal move. So you can perform that action during your movement phase because it counts as a normal move.

I agree with gungo's interpretation.

Actions only care about advancing, falling back and engagement range when you start them. Actions are only interrupted when the unit actually advances, not just when counts as having advanced.

Like the state “count as advanced this turn” is not important, the actual “advance move” after beginning of the action important is?

Ok… honestly, I have no idea…

Think of how it works in video games - if you are performing an action like hacking a terminal, you need to stand still to start it, and it cancels when you run away, shoot or melee

Some actions are started during the command phase, if you then move or advance during your movement phase, they cancel.

Alternatively if you use the evilsun strat to move again at the end of your shooting phase the action will fail regardless if you are using a speedmob…

Actions have 2 restrictions
1) you can’t even perform any actions if you advance this turn
2) a current action will fail if you move and/or advance after you started an action.

Speedmob does nothing for the 2)
Speedmob does allow you to perform an action during the movement or shooting phase only even if you already advanced.

The only benefit speedmob gives is allowing bikers to move an additional 6in before you start an action and only on the handful of actions that even allow bikers to do them. Deploy teleport homers, get the good bits and the new RnD are the only actions I know of that work this way.


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In other interesting news that new tyranid army of renown in white dwarf… is insanely overpowered.. it’s bringing back monster mash and making those units incredibly resilent and with much more offense.

The good news it’s a monster heavy list and might make those beastsnagga Killrig lists better. Not good for pks though since everything will have -1dam reduction.

Does anyone still use 20 boyz in battlewagons? I had a game today where I had 3 units of 20 boyz in wagons, and they did great!

Boyz may be expensive, and have had all their support strats and rules removed but they still hit very hard when you can dictate the charge.

I had a squad of 20 wipe out a 10 man crusader squad when I used the interrupt strat, and the goff exploding hits on 5s and 6s strat.

My experience in the last few months with boyz is that they are not good on foot anymore, at least in big mobz, but are still really good in transports.

Heafstaag wrote:
Does anyone still use 20 boyz in battlewagons? I had a game today where I had 3 units of 20 boyz in wagons, and they did great!

Boyz may be expensive, and have had all their support strats and rules removed but they still hit very hard when you can dictate the charge.

I had a squad of 20 wipe out a 10 man crusader squad when I used the interrupt strat, and the goff exploding hits on 5s and 6s strat.

My experience in the last few months with boyz is that they are not good on foot anymore, at least in big mobz, but are still really good in transports.

Boyz definitely still have a use as Trukk Boyz, I can also see boyz being okay when being used in battlewagons in a more semi-competitive environment. The only problem with boyz in battlewagons is that they can't take advantage of the mobility from being Trukk Boyz and Being in a unit of 20 has very little benefit besides gaining buffs from psychic powers and some fringe strats you might want to use like the Goffs one you mentioned. I would actually say that having two units of 10 might be better since it gives you more flexibility for moving onto different objectives and splitting enemy fire once they've disembarked. You also get another Nob for better quality attacks.

They work fine against CC oriented armies with no fight first spam. Against marines that don't have tons of meltas battlewagons are great, so are charging Goffs boyz. Fight first/fight last tricks might invalidate their tactics completely though.

3x wagon boyz is a massive investment of over 1000 points for pure melee standard/average units. I don't think they're trash but I prefer fielding a single Forktress wagon with 10 boyz + 5 meganobz, which is already a significant points sink.

Boyz on foot are to be avoided completely, outside maybe cheap 10 man squads if you lack the models for the cheaper specialists.

Off to my game, I’ll let you know how I get on

DoktaRoksta wrote:
Off to my game, I’ll let you know how I get on

Good luck buddy, give em sum dakka !

So, went to a semi casual tourney. Took a 1K snakebites/beastnagga list. Every game a pair of killrigs and a saurboss performed reliably. 2 units of 3 squigboyz did okay when they hit but frequently took the alpha strike from the enemy. Came second by 1 point once everything was said and done.

But that brings me to 2 questions.

The BBK boss with Kill choppa. Would it be better to take beasthide mantle instead? Both for damage output and durability. The pip of AP, potential for a mortal wound here or there and double strength is nice, but taking mantle means you get 2 more attacks, a total of 8 under waaagh. Your banking on BBK to pump up the reliability right, and taking goffs gives more potential for exploding 6s, or snakebites helps counteract the lower strength. (though wounding pretty much everything on 2s is pretty nice) Anyone know the math hammer for a definitive answer?

Also, secondaries, bloody hell I still suck at secondaries. The 30 grots I took let me get da good bitz on a few missions, but it very much feels like one of those secondaries that you do great if you take initiative, and fail utterly if your opponent pushes forward because it takes maybe 3 turns to start actually getting the points. A cheap weirdboy for interrogation seems okay if you're already overwhelming any deny attempts with the witchfire spam of the killrigs. (which i still love by the way, any support characters have a solid chance of just being blown away by squiggly curse, biting jawz and frazzle combo)

Is there any real benifit of stomp em good vs grind them down? Seems kinda like a bit of a downgrade since it's combat only.

MrStressy wrote:

DoktaRoksta wrote:
Off to my game, I’ll let you know how I get on

Good luck buddy, give em sum dakka !

Thanks, I kicked his butt

cody.d. wrote:

Is there any real benifit of stomp em good vs grind them down? Seems kinda like a bit of a downgrade since it's combat only.

It works astonishingly well if you bring an all-grot-army led by Ghazghkull - as long as Ghazzie or the Killa kans kill anything, you score 4 points, unless Ghazzie is also slain (though I lost all 3 games at that tourney, I was able to score 15 twice and 12 once for that objective...). Apart from that borderline case, I dunno...