Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Lots of good responses. thanks.

Because i was interested in counting how much i had point wise. last time i tried was over half a year ago and i remember looking at my then two dakkajets which could easily be used as blitza/burna bommas and thought: yea these units have different costs..

I cant be arsed to do this

But now i wanna try it. ill do it soon. Im really curious how much i have.

Beardedragon wrote:
Weird question here, but when you have to measure how many points of orks you have total, how do you do that? Do you take the cheapest option you could have or the most expensive?

Like if you had 3 deff dreads. do you count them with klaws or something more expensive?

Like if you have magnetized some of your miniatures.

Depend on the purpose.
If you want the stat for the signature here, count the most expensive option.
If you need to make a report for your wife, just naked bodies without anything.

Jidmah wrote:Rumor has it that you will soon no longer be able to mix sub-factions in one army.

Thoughts on this? I don't think the impact on orks will be huge, especially since it hits our armies to beat harder than us.

I will only be changing from Blood Axe/Deathskull to double Blood Axe. I lose ObSec on my kommandos and stormboys, but that probably won't have a big impact except in some edge cases.

From the dark deeps of the internet:

 Tomsug wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
Weird question here, but when you have to measure how many points of orks you have total, how do you do that? Do you take the cheapest option you could have or the most expensive?

Like if you had 3 deff dreads. do you count them with klaws or something more expensive?

Like if you have magnetized some of your miniatures.

Depend on the purpose.
If you want the stat for the signature here, count the most expensive option.
If you need to make a report for your wife, just naked bodies without anything.

LOL

Ill keep that in mind!

 Tomsug wrote:
From the dark deeps of the internet:

I hope that is fake. Orcs are in a good spot.. that's just trying to make our codex worthless. Buffing random models wont make them see much use... They need fundamental stat or some rethink of their role, too much overlap means that they either replace the previous models or stay in the shelves.

 Tomsug wrote:
From the dark deeps of the internet:

Oof, that's a BIG jump for the Beast Boss on Squigosaur. Not sure if it warranted that big of a price bump.

The squigbuggy nerf seems a bit unnecessary with the balance update.

Scrapjets seem reasonable.

I knew Kommandos would get an increase, though I was hoping it wouldn't be by two points, but by 1. Not sure how much this would impact lists since they're still really good.

Glad that they're giving some loving to Meganobz and the wagon variants, though they still won't be able to compete against Kill Rigs I feel. Also, not sure if 15 point lootas will be competitive enough given -1D spam everywhere.

To be fair, i always thought mega Nobz should be base 30 points.

I remember saying that back when the new codex came out. They deserve to be 30 points. they are not in any way as good as others terminator variants.


beastboss does not deserve a 175 point cost. As good as he is to fight thats all he does. Thats all many of our characters do really. no abilities for him to use on his allies or enemies, no shooting attack of worth. No real buffing. All he does is hit things hard.

I think 175 would be too much.

I honestly don’t really know what they’re trying to do with nerfing kommandos. Nothing in the elite slot really competes with them, we’re still not going to take boyz, and honestly I’m fine dropping other things to take more of em. Last time I checked too orks were at a pretty healthy win rate. I guess GW just can’t handle orks being good ever.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I also think that the kannonwagon will never be good. Ever.
It’s sort of just a leman russ that shoots half as much, and way worse shots.

100% the knee-jerk nerf we got earlier was just that, a knee-jerk one, and the CA nerfs were already in the works and of course GW doesnt address anything that quickly in their initial releases.

 Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote:
I honestly don’t really know what they’re trying to do with nerfing kommandos. Nothing in the elite slot really competes with them, we’re still not going to take boyz, and honestly I’m fine dropping other things to take more of em. Last time I checked too orks were at a pretty healthy win rate. I guess GW just can’t handle orks being good ever.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I also think that the kannonwagon will never be good. Ever.
It’s sort of just a leman russ that shoots half as much, and way worse shots.

Im not sure i fully agree.

The kommandos with their +1 to wound knocks Nobz even with big choppas out the park.

I would say kommandos are worth 11 points, but once they become 12 it starts being a bit much. Though i think even at 12 points i could probably find room for them in my goff pressure army still. Because they really are all rounders. even a toughness 8 vehicle will be wounded on a +4 when throwing down the distraction grot if you use goff and charged to have str 5. There isnt anything a Goff kommando isnt a threat towards.


One thing that always annoyed me is how we only have movement 5 when we should have totally had movement 6 like most others. Only our kommandos gets this.

Beardedragon wrote:

 Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote:
I honestly don’t really know what they’re trying to do with nerfing kommandos. Nothing in the elite slot really competes with them, we’re still not going to take boyz, and honestly I’m fine dropping other things to take more of em. Last time I checked too orks were at a pretty healthy win rate. I guess GW just can’t handle orks being good ever.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I also think that the kannonwagon will never be good. Ever.
It’s sort of just a leman russ that shoots half as much, and way worse shots.

Im not sure i fully agree.

The kommandos with their +1 to wound knocks Nobz even with big choppas out the park.

I would say kommandos are worth 11 points, but once they become 12 it starts being a bit much. Though i think even at 12 points i could probably find room for them in my goff pressure army still. Because they really are all rounders. even a toughness 8 vehicle will be wounded on a +4 when throwing down the distraction grot if you use goff and charged to have str 5. There isnt anything a Goff kommando isnt a threat towards.


One thing that always annoyed me is how we only have movement 5 when we should have totally had movement 6 like most others. Only our kommandos gets this.

Nurglings.

Hit on a 3+ (assuming no Miasma), wound on a 2+, with a 5++/5+++ save on a W4 body.

It takes just over 16 attacks from Kommandos to kill a base of Nurglings, and considering they're only 22 points per model...

Anyone know if chapter approved will be in play for the LVO?

Any price increase is useless parametr without the context. Is it an ork army price increase, or is it an all armies price increase? Context, context is what matters.

But there was silence for couple of days. This is a good topic to discuss

Forceride wrote:

 Tomsug wrote:
From the dark deeps of the internet:

I hope that is fake. Orcs are in a good spot.. that's just trying to make our codex worthless. Buffing random models wont make them see much use... They need fundamental stat or some rethink of their role, too much overlap means that they either replace the previous models or stay in the shelves.

The problem is chapter approved point adjustments are done 6+ months ago when orks were doing better…
It’s a knee jerk from orks winning still… the rumor point changes started back then…
The only thing that makes me think this is off is the fact they changed Mek guns points again? They literally made all the weapon options the same cost and now they are reverting back to the KMK being higher costed? If beastboss becomes 175… I’ll just take Mogrok… if hes raised in price too I’m back to warboss on bike… honestly I’m fairly sure orks will get hammered this chapter approved I’ve been hearing that rumor since orks started winning.. players don’t like it when orks have a 50%+ win rate… (we were at 55% since the codex came out)…

Automatically Appended Next Post:

CaptainO wrote:
Anyone know if chapter approved will be in play for the LVO?

It will not
Gsc and custodes is the cutoff

gungo wrote:

Forceride wrote:

 Tomsug wrote:
From the dark deeps of the internet:

I hope that is fake. Orcs are in a good spot.. that's just trying to make our codex worthless. Buffing random models wont make them see much use... They need fundamental stat or some rethink of their role, too much overlap means that they either replace the previous models or stay in the shelves.

The problem is chapter approved point adjustments are done 6+ months ago when orks were doing better…
It’s a knee jerk from orks winning still… the rumor point changes started back then…
The only thing that makes me think this is off is the fact they changed Mek guns points again? They literally made all the weapon options the same cost and now they are reverting back to the KMK being higher costed? If beastboss becomes 175… I’ll just take Mogrok… if hes raised in price too I’m back to warboss on bike… honestly I’m fairly sure orks will get hammered this chapter approved I’ve been hearing that rumor since orks started winning.. players don’t like it when orks have a 50%+ win rate… (we were at 55% since the codex came out)…

Automatically Appended Next Post:

CaptainO wrote:
Anyone know if chapter approved will be in play for the LVO?

It will not
Gsc and custodes is the cutoff

I don't know, i haven't been around long enough to see favourites. Being true, what's the point of playing other factions? Are only certain factions like drukari allowed to win? We need to fight that sentiment. The game is about having a nice time and enjoy the thrill of smashing your army against some one else. I don't understand where this idea comes from. Sure we are one of craziest armies but that's the fun of playing orcs. To do something out of the ordinary, to be completely whack...

I digress, and those are feels. If i see favouritism anywhere even for orcs i will try and fight it. That's my call.

But that's also a reason why updates should be more streamlined, 6 months is too long. Also if things change, not having adaptability is silly.I don't understand how you balance with out reviewing your changes? The game is pretty unstable.. and it's funny we are talking about orcs winning when drukkari have been doing that for what more then a year?

It’s the process of printing books it takes a while to format and send to printers receive shipments and then redistribute those books for a global release… it’s why many people want to see chapter approved style point changes and balance fixes go digital…

gungo wrote:
It’s the process of printing books it takes a while to format and send to printers receive shipments and then redistribute those books for a global release… it’s why many people want to see chapter approved style point changes and balance fixes go digital…

Exactly.

It reminds me… Three million years? About average for post…

I've signed up last minute for the LVO with my speed mob list. Anyone use player placed terrain with orks before (or even better with a bike heavy speed mob)?

Apparently the packet is going to be the same as New Orleans https://docs.google.com/document/d/15c9Lg-RaGKFJCffSNemiy-5QdNONOWaxgyVZLxqZ2gI/edit?usp=sharing

 Tomsug wrote:
From the dark deeps of the internet:

I'm dubious about this. The buggies have already been nerfed hard, and is the Squigboss even being used often enough to warrant any kind of nerf?

The only thing I think is legit from this list is the kommandos going from 10 to 12. I think they're our only "problematic" unit nowadays. Sure buggies can be obnoxious if you're fielding 8+ of them, but at that point you're looking at suboptimal buggies and limiting the rest of what your list can do. They work best in conjunction with kommandos, stormboys, bikers, etc.

Or it's all true and in 6 months they'll just say orks can only take 1 vehicle per army. Who knows.

 Afrodactyl wrote:

 Tomsug wrote:
From the dark deeps of the internet:

I'm dubious about this. The buggies have already been nerfed hard, and is the Squigboss even being used often enough to warrant any kind of nerf?

The only thing I think is legit from this list is the kommandos going from 10 to 12. I think they're our only "problematic" unit nowadays. Sure buggies can be obnoxious if you're fielding 8+ of them, but at that point you're looking at suboptimal buggies and limiting the rest of what your list can do. They work best in conjunction with kommandos, stormboys, bikers, etc.

Or it's all true and in 6 months they'll just say orks can only take 1 vehicle per army. Who knows.

With how much GW listens to their competitive player consultants and how those players never seem to have liked using/facing Orks very much in the competitive meta, it wouldn't be surprising that they would be satisfied with Orks with being nerfed into the ground so they don't have to worry about our skew lists.

Chapter approved point changes have been done for a while.. heck during the emergency ork nerf they put out the admech and drukari chapter approved point changes early And that was 2 months ago….

We have heard about point nerfs to buggies and planes for a long time.. chapter approved was delayed release due to shipping issues. It should have been released in nov/December.

You are all looking at this nerf as of todays orks competitive placing.. these nerfs were done when everyone was still crying about ork buggies killrigs kommandos and beastboss on squig being very good units. Today the meta shifted to antitank and anti monster due to dreadkniggts and tyranid monster mash and durable drukari… so buggies are no longer as much a skew…. The good news is bikers are still okay so if chapter approved gives more biker secondaries that list is decent and it’s fun.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grimskul wrote:

 Afrodactyl wrote:

 Tomsug wrote:
From the dark deeps of the internet:

I'm dubious about this. The buggies have already been nerfed hard, and is the Squigboss even being used often enough to warrant any kind of nerf?

The only thing I think is legit from this list is the kommandos going from 10 to 12. I think they're our only "problematic" unit nowadays. Sure buggies can be obnoxious if you're fielding 8+ of them, but at that point you're looking at suboptimal buggies and limiting the rest of what your list can do. They work best in conjunction with kommandos, stormboys, bikers, etc.

Or it's all true and in 6 months they'll just say orks can only take 1 vehicle per army. Who knows.

With how much GW listens to their competitive player consultants and how those players never seem to have liked using/facing Orks very much in the competitive meta, it wouldn't be surprising that they would be satisfied with Orks with being nerfed into the ground so they don't have to worry about our skew lists.

This ^
There is a clear player base bias on orks… we are the fun crazy army not the cool tactical army… even when they talk about competitive ork list like buggy spam they claim it’s just spamming cheap units and rushing the opponent and requires very little thought… when orks won socal decisively in the final there was a massive freak out about it. We are still to this day dealing with the fallback from that tournament. (To be fair the aircraft blocking assault was janky bull crap)

 Afrodactyl wrote:

 Tomsug wrote:
From the dark deeps of the internet:

I'm dubious about this. The buggies have already been nerfed hard, and is the Squigboss even being used often enough to warrant any kind of nerf?

The only thing I think is legit from this list is the kommandos going from 10 to 12. I think they're our only "problematic" unit nowadays. Sure buggies can be obnoxious if you're fielding 8+ of them, but at that point you're looking at suboptimal buggies and limiting the rest of what your list can do. They work best in conjunction with kommandos, stormboys, bikers, etc.

Or it's all true and in 6 months they'll just say orks can only take 1 vehicle per army. Who knows.

You use a logic reacting now on real world data. Non of this plays a significant role in GW fairy tale world. Neither real world data, neither reacting now nor logic.

I wish I lived in GW fairytale land, it sounds like a great time

I still don't think the Squigboss was ever worthy of a nerf in the first place. Wartrike, Bikerboss, Megaboss and even the plain old regular Boss are all more viable and more used as far as I can tell.

 Afrodactyl wrote:
I wish I lived in GW fairytale land, it sounds like a great time

I still don't think the Squigboss was ever worthy of a nerf in the first place. Wartrike, Bikerboss, Megaboss and even the plain old regular Boss are all more viable and more used as far as I can tell.

I think, like mentioned previously, it was a kneejerk reaction to how people flipped out about the Squigosaur's durability, until people realized it was just the tip of the iceberg for how GW would overcorrect with the sudden introduction of invuln ignoring and double digit damage weaponry. Also, as the NPC faction, we can't have nice things :(

What’s funny is we don’t get the bonus npc factions used to get as we can’t even flood the board with bodies.

If the rumour is true, than following is interesting:

- warbikers and deffkoptas hold - Speedmob deffkopta biker spam is strong now. Would be for the next few months, unless changes in number of units in detachement change something
- Kannonwagons price drop. They are already cool. 2D6 shot weapon + 1CP reroll gives you a lot of shots hitting on 4+ 8-3 3 with the speedwaagh. With 60” range and 12” move, so there is nowehere to hide. Plus 3x Big Shoota for free. Give them a WAGON keyword for the speedmob 5++ and price drop for 20!p and they would be top.
- killa kans - they were already in some top lists. Give them a price drop and Skorcha autohit 12” 5-1 1 + klaws 8-3 3 with support of waaaagh banner would be very good.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
- Kannonwagons + mek guns price drop can be a “nice” core for the castle lists. Use a Killakans as Terminators for TTL and play the passive game. That could be a very strong build.

 Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote:
What’s funny is we don’t get the bonus npc factions used to get as we can’t even flood the board with bodies.

Yup, now we're much lower model count than before and still pretty fragile as far as army type goes. With the new Tau leaks they seem very, very strong on the anti-vehicle front, so I think the game is going to become even more rock, paper, scissors like with the match up for tournaments. GSC seem like the main counter to Tau, and Tau seem like a counter to knights, hyper elite armies like Custodes, and SpeedWAAAAGH!'s.

And the last note

- new Tau weapons seems to criple the high W models. Another reason to call bikers/koptas/kans a stars of the next few months.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And this seems that someone has a serious problem with the Trukkboyz

https://www.goonhammer.com/ruleshammer-40k-qa-january-14th-2022/

 Tomsug wrote:
And the last note

- new Tau weapons seems to criple the high W models. Another reason to call bikers/koptas/kans a stars of the next few months.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And this seems that someone has a serious problem with the Trukkboyz

https://www.goonhammer.com/ruleshammer-40k-qa-january-14th-2022/

Agreed. Having less "all wounds in one basket" vehicle models seems to be the way to go, especially since most of the units you mentioned also go well with the alphork strike archetype. I think SpeedWAAAGH! buggy lists would still have been more viable I feel if the balance update for the unit restrictions wasn't implemented, since you'd separate the units so they couldn't overlap with damage, but with our current 1 per buggy type cap, I don't see how they're going to survive with all the long range high flat damage weaponry making their way to us, especially with the change to markerlights making +1 to hit much more accessible.