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DoktaRoksta wrote:
Running my Killrig tomorrow and I have a question.
The wurrtower has a range of 24” but my psychic spell selections max range is 12”. However the wurrtower converts from assault 1 to Assault D3 on the successful manifestation of a psychic power.

So say I’m 18” from the nearest target, can I cast the psychic power frazzle, damage nothing because everything is out of range but because I successfully manifested the power at the roll still convert the wurrtower to assault D3. Or do I need a target in range to successfully manifest?

if your 18" use smite, but in answer to ur question yes , frazzle doesn't require you to select a target so manifesting and not causing damage is ok to charge wur tower

note however that the enemy must not deny.


core rules state =
"Successfully manifested: When attempting to manifest a psychic power, if the Psychic test was successful and there was no successful Deny the Witch test, then that power is said to be successfully manifested. Resolve its effects."

 Afrodactyl wrote:

 Tomsug wrote:
Another rule change in February? What? Seriously? This is insane. It means we cannot plan the lists and know the game for more than month?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
But it makes sence. If you change the game every month, you don' t need to do the FAQ and solve the problem. Just make another change. In sich speed, nobody will be able to say, the rule is unbalanced. Clever…

Hopefully the relatively frequent points patches will let GW see where they need to amend their points changes as the edition goes on.

Technically they said the quarterly updates are rules balance patches and won’t contain point changes..
Point changes are still only done in chapter approved which is about 6+ months…

However I agree with the sentiment that they should just remove points from the codex and put the points online or just leave it in a matched play point sheet online in the faq/errata section. People already get the points for free in both the Gw app and BattleScribe so it’s not hiding anything and they still need to buy the codex/chapter approved for the rules. They can leave powerratings in the codex so that people who are learning to play can just use that at first until they get into more matched playstyle games. Putting points in the codex is now useless.. ffs custodes has points changes in chapter approved and they just got released last week.

It does not change a lot. Last balance patch limited the jets to 2 and limited the number of buggies. It is not a small patch. It is a major change in the rules.

 Jidmah wrote:

 addnid wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
With no souping clan allowed he might even be much cheaper than 130 points now and he wouldn't see the table anyway.

hah no souping is going to change so many things. Freebooters will probably benefit from this. Many klans/whatever "trait" equivalent in other armies will never ever be seen again.

Do you have any information on how that rule is going to be implemented?

Because rumor is that it makes armies lose their purity bonus, which orks don't have. Others say that you cannot freely pick <Clan> anymore, which wouldn't impact Mozrog either, since you can put him in patrol with specialist trukk boyz.

the way its worded means he should be fine ...technically

It says "all units with SELECTABLE faction keyword" so because Mozrog is hard coded this rule doesn't apply to him. He can go in his detachment and be fine (minus klan kulture abilities of course).

assuming he is warlord the waaaagh would still work i think but the clan strat would be relatively useless.

 kingbbobb wrote:

DoktaRoksta wrote:
Running my Killrig tomorrow and I have a question.
The wurrtower has a range of 24” but my psychic spell selections max range is 12”. However the wurrtower converts from assault 1 to Assault D3 on the successful manifestation of a psychic power.

So say I’m 18” from the nearest target, can I cast the psychic power frazzle, damage nothing because everything is out of range but because I successfully manifested the power at the roll still convert the wurrtower to assault D3. Or do I need a target in range to successfully manifest?

if your 18" use smite, but in answer to ur question yes , frazzle doesn't require you to select a target so manifesting and not causing damage is ok to charge wur tower

note however that the enemy must not deny.


core rules state =
"Successfully manifested: When attempting to manifest a psychic power, if the Psychic test was successful and there was no successful Deny the Witch test, then that power is said to be successfully manifested. Resolve its effects."

Thanks

 Jidmah wrote:

Bomb squigs are used when you select a unit to shoot: Once per turn, when a unit with a bomb squig is selected to shoot or fire Overwatch, if it has any bomb squigs remaining, the unit can release one.

Shooting phase rules: Start your Shooting phase by selecting one eligible unit from your army to shoot with. An eligible unit is one that has one or more models equipped with ranged weapons. Units that Advanced this turn, and units that Fell Back (other than TITANIC units) this turn are not eligible.

You are not allowed to select a unit to shoot if it has advanced unless it has an assault weapon: If a unit includes any models equipped with Assault weapons, that unit is still eligible to shoot with in your Shooting phase even if it has Advanced this turn,[...]

The rare rules change nothing about that, as it's not an "instead of shooting" ability. Technically it's even in addition to shooting.

Non-Shooting Abilities:

Such abilities can only be used in your shooting phase, but can be used even if your unit has no ranged weapons, or if it advanced or fell back this turn

Part one allows for units to be selected as eligible even though they lack ANY ranged weapons. Part two allows for advancing and still using this ability which supercedes any other restriction since it specifies it allows it. You and I can disagree to the end of time, but unless a tournament Judge says no, I will play it like they are allowed to since its pretty clear the intent behind this rare rule.

cody.d. wrote:
So, 120pts for a battle wagon with deffrolla. That seems pretty solid as a decently tanky brick with a little combat to back it up. The big question is do they touch our infantry? From the tease we got a few other sub performing infantry got a points drop or two. Hopefully boyz and regular nobz get a touchup too. I'd love to do a wagon taxi list.

120pts for a battlewagon with deffrolla put it about 20pts over priced. T7 3+ isn't exactly that hard to kill these days, especially in an era where Tau are about to get a FETH YOU HH.

I don't expect boyz/beast boys/nobz etc to get points drops. There isn't a point level that makes them good, they will either be garbage or spammed. What they should really do is increase their abilities either in dmg or durability to make them WORTH 9ppm.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
shockingly im not really upset at any of these ork changes, i expected them to hamstring us hardcore like they usually do.
Closest to upset is kommandos should have been 11 and boyz drop to 8 rather than just kommandoz goto 12. It made no sense for them to be virtually the same cost even if one isnt a troop and one is to justify the vast difference in durability/lethality.

Squigbuggy was too cheap for being able to easily wipe out a 5man squad of marines with no effort, every time i fielded one it usually made its points back immediately or at most 2 turns and since it sat out of sight it wasnt hard to have it last 2 turns. Too efficient when something can do that w/o basically sacrificing itself in the process imo.

I havnt even used the Squigboss yet as i rarely get 40k games right now but on paper i thought he was a bit nutso. 30pts might be a bit too much but not obscenely too much.

Wagons at 120pts with a rolla interests me greatly. Thats cheap, thats mega cheap. Considering they have no guns other than the unit that goes in them it seems right, especially since they lack any real defense other than raw toughness and wounds (something that is getting less and less valuable). I feel like i should have a wagon with some meganobz and boyz inside it again.

A Squigbuggy, benefiting from freeboota kulture averages 10.5 shots, 5.25 hits, 3.5 wounds and -2AP means 2.3 dead Marines a turn, definitely not 5. So that was a 90pt unit killing 46(ish) points of intercessors a turn. Definitely above average, but not by an oppressive level, and keep in mind the little gun has an 18' range.

Squigboss is effectively dead to me. I never used it in my Alphork list because believe it or not its too slow. It's 10+D6+2D6 movement turn 1 is significantly behind say warbikes who are 14+6+2D6 and even Deffkoptas which are 14 + 3D6 ramming speed or Trukkboyz who are 12+3+5+D6+2D6

If anything he needed a buff in his rules to allow his aura to impact regular Orkz as well, then i might have considered him. But as of right now, I don't remember even seeing a top placing ork list using him...so +30 pts is a bit...dumb.

Finally, The wagons as mentioned are still over priced and not worth much. We pay a premium for its transport capacity, but we really don't have much to put into them now so its mostly wasted points.

I feel like the Squigboss was nerfed for its potential rather than what it was actually achieving in competitive games. As others have said we're only really seeing Bikerbosses and Megabosses in placing competitive lists, and yet the Squigboss got the nerf.

On paper it's pretty mean and pretty tough, but in reality it probably actually spent most of its games chasing things around the board being just out of threat range and getting shot for it's troubles.

SemperMortis wrote:
Non-Shooting Abilities:

Such abilities can only be used in your shooting phase, but can be used even if your unit has no ranged weapons, or if it advanced or fell back this turn

Part one allows for units to be selected as eligible even though they lack ANY ranged weapons. Part two allows for advancing and still using this ability which supercedes any other restriction since it specifies it allows it. You and I can disagree to the end of time, but unless a tournament Judge says no, I will play it like they are allowed to since its pretty clear the intent behind this rare rule.

The squig rule clearly states when to use it, ignoring that part is cheating.

The rule you are quoting only applies for rules uses INSTEAD of shooting, which squigs are not.

No matter how you turn it, you are wrong, and it's not a matter of opinion.

gungo wrote:
Named characters are exempt so mozrog is viable…. In an auxiliary detachment.
Superheavy get +2 command points if they share keyword… does this make the mork/gorkanaut playable.

I'll give the gorkanaut a try. I've only managed to justify it through the Tellyporta + Ramming Speed combo which costs 4 CPs, 5 with the Superheavy Detachment and even then it was only for real casual fun games. Now it's much cheaper in terms of CPs to field a naut this way so it will certainly be part of my first list after CA's full release.

The morkanaut on the other hand I don't like it at all. I could only justify it if it gains the klan kulture so a Freebooterz one could fire decently while the gorkanaut can be big krumpaz at least. Also morkanaut can be big krumpaz of course but it's more shooting oriented than the gorkanaut and I'd like to give it a proper buff to its shooting.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SemperMortis wrote:


Finally, The wagons as mentioned are still over priced and not worth much. We pay a premium for its transport capacity, but we really don't have much to put into them now so its mostly wasted points.

That's a problem that multiple vehicles with transport capacity have in the game, unfortunately. Rhino for example is super common in sisters lists but never even considered in SM ones. Both Rhino and BW are fairly priced for their stats (and their costs in currency ) but lacking synergies and purpose makes them look overpriced.

I believe Semper is right.

It makes no sense squig bombs should be used as a normal attack, and that rule semper mentioned makes more sense. RAI Sempers way is how i see it working.

Just because you don't understand it, doesn't mean it's wrong

If anything, it makes your opinion wrong, no matter what it is.
Seriously.

The rule quoted is specifically referring to rules done instead of shooting. Like guard smoke launchers.
The squig rule doesn't even use the word instead.

If you feel like applying random rules to completely unrelated stuff, go all the way and apply the tau railgun profile to rokkits.

The rule tells you when to use a squig. It tells you what to do with it.

You cannot use the squig when you are not eligible to shoot, just like you cannot pile in when you are not eligible to fight.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
For more clarity - bomb squigs is a rule of an entire unit that is triggered whenever you select a bomb squig unit to shoot.

You then have the option to either release the squig or not.

This is not an attack. You are just resolving an ability, just like you roll for the Moar Dakka kustom job when you select a model with that to shoot.

Afterwards, all models from that unit can shoot as normal. No one is doing anything instead of shooting.

And now the important part - if you have no permission to select a unit to shoot (because it advanced or fell back), bomb squigs can't possible trigger unless you are doing something explicitly forbidden by the game rules.

CA review on Goonhammer:

Orks

Orks get some fairly significant hits to some of their most pushed units, but do see some cuts elsewhere. The Beastboss on Squigosar eats a 30-point increase, while Mozrog goes up 15, Scrapjets go up 10, Rukkatrukks got up 20, and Kill Rigs go up 20. That’s a big hit to buggy-heavy Freebooters lists that rely on taking a dozen buggies with support from a squigosaur and wartrike warboss, though they get a little help from Mek guns going down 5 points. Kommandos also saw an increase, going up 2 points per model (to 12).

To balance this a bit, Orks see several drops to the army’s less-used units, with drops to Meganobz (-5), Battlewagons (-15), Bonebreakas (-15), Flash Gitz (-2), Gunwagons (-15), Killa Kans (-5), and Lootas (-2). Hopefully these give Orks a few more options to consider and increase list variety for the faction, though the increase to Kommandos seems like rough timing with the release of the Octarius supplement.

The net result of this is that Goff builds are mostly fine, able to claw back big chunks of the increases on Rigs and buggies with Meganobz and Kans, but Freebooters are significantly reduced in power and will need to rethink their construction, though Wazbom Blastajets remain one of the game’s most insane datasheets.

Wings: These aren’t as generous as what Drukhari covens got, but the faction is probably still fine – but no longer needs the buggy unit limit from the Balance Dataslate, which I’m hoping will be removed at some point in the future.

TheChirurgeon: Strong disagree.

https://www.goonhammer.com/the-nachmund-gt-season-points-review-january-2022/

Sounds like Wazboom holds the price! Wohoou!

Good for the Wazbom.

If they keep that stupid rule for the buggies +10 for the Squigbuggy would have been enough.

Squigbosses got hit hard, but i`m surprised the Warboss on bike didn`t take a hit as well.
And for now Koptas and Warbikers are fine, but i can see them going up 5 each in the future.


Overall i think we got price increases where needed, but it was a bit too much, especially considering the additional nerfs from the buggy rule, the flyer restriction and the new mono faction rule. On top of that the new missions look a bit harder for our Speed Mob to score well, and it was allready not a good army going for 100 points.

But hey, we`ll have a new Balance Slate next month, maybe there will be some good stuff for us as well.

Also some FW points changes:

Kannonwagon -20
Squiggoth - 20
Gargantuan Squiggoth -50
Kustom Stompa -50

 Tomsug wrote:



Sounds like Wazboom holds the price! Wohoou!

Which is already pretty high, an hike would have killed it IMHO.

I'm disappointed on hearing about flash gitz, saving 10 points from a 5 man squad doesn't make them a legit choice.

460 points for the gargantuan squiggoth? We are getting closer to where i want it to be for fun games.

I have used it before, its a fun model. But its still too expensive. I wouldnt pay more than 400 for it in general.

But we're nearing the semi correct amount of points.


Also the squiggoth going to 170 also starts nearing a point i could maybe want to use it. Not sure if for competitive or not, maybe id have to start out casually to see what happens.

Wazboom seems to have a problem in my Speed Mob anyway.

On the one side, Tau comes to the table shooting him down ASAP.

On the other side I have to vote.

1. Either boost 2 jets via Freeboota strat (those, that will die soon)

2. Play ES and focus on bikers and Koptas. In such list 210p fragile wazboom without +1 to hit sounds pretty bad.

Heck, ES Speed Mob can be pressed in one single outrider detachement and have more CPs! Is it clever? No idea

My Wazboms tend to be in strategic reserve most of the time unless i can be certain they`ll survive me going second.


I liked to mix ES and Freebooters in Speed Mob, i guess both are still viable as Mono Speed mob.
With the new points i guess my favourite is Evil Sunz with 2 x 5 Koptas to keep them safe for 3 CP a turn and a barebones Wazbom for 190 in reserve.
You also get a bit more mileage out of the general flexibility of the EV over the pure dmg of FB.

Not sure if 1 detachment will be enough in the long run, as running a few solo buggies will make Engage a bit easier and you basically want 3 squads of Bikes every game on top of the Koptas.
I guess you could squeeze all units in 1 detachment and go for grind them down, but I´d rather have the flexibility of 3-5 more units.


Freebooters Speed Mob is still good though, 2 Wazboms will continue to perform and the Warboss on Bike with Badskull Banna is a neat ObSec trick.

 Jidmah wrote:
Just because you don't understand it, doesn't mean it's wrong

If anything, it makes your opinion wrong, no matter what it is.
Seriously.

Disagree, and your opinion on whats right is in my opinion wrong So again, unless a tournament judge says otherwise I intend to use them exactly as the rare rule which allows me to ADVANCE AND USE AN ABILITY says I can

 Jidmah wrote:
Also some FW points changes:

Kannonwagon -20
Squiggoth - 20
Gargantuan Squiggoth -50
Kustom Stompa -50

KW is still crap, I don't have a clue about squiggoths because I don't own/use them. Kustom Stompa...holy christ, The regular stompa is 675pts and not taken because its still crap and some muppet at GW thought "you know what? lets drop that kustom one from 800 to 750, that will fix it!"

 Jidmah wrote:
Also some FW points changes:

Kannonwagon -20
Squiggoth - 20
Gargantuan Squiggoth -50
Kustom Stompa -50

Squiggoth is interesting as a gun platform BUT they should really have gotten the squig keyword. I mean it’s not competitive unless Tankbustas go down in price or lootas become more efficient shooting. But honestly what I want is both squiggoth and giant squiggoths to get squog keyword and then snakebite kultur to remove the str8 limit and then only effect Calvary, infantry and monster units… that would make ork snakebite lists decent.

Also mozrog went up 15pts as well (185) he was already bad before
(squigboss is mostly dead)
And
Flashgitz went down 2ppm (25)

I completely disagree with goonhammer orks took a big enough hit to go down in competitor rankings. Killakans are useless in a goff pressure list and meganobs are interesting but not competitive enough. The fact they think killakans who don’t benefit from kultur and provides very little pressure will do anything in a goff pressure list shows how little they understand orks. If you read thier articles you will see how only 1 of them ever plays orks and it’s not even one of his main armies. This is the ork players problem. Orks are a low A high B tier.. until we see drukari take an actual hit… (tau also are going to have an alpha strike problem). I don’t expect any fixes to ork rules in quarterly update.. I mean they should fix nob biker rules and squiggoth get squig keywords and orks get an infantry rule fix but that won’t happen.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tomsug wrote:
Wazboom seems to have a problem in my Speed Mob anyway.

On the one side, Tau comes to the table shooting him down ASAP.

On the other side I have to vote.

1. Either boost 2 jets via Freeboota strat (those, that will die soon)

2. Play ES and focus on bikers and Koptas. In such list 210p fragile wazboom without +1 to hit sounds pretty bad.

Heck, ES Speed Mob can be pressed in one single outrider detachement and have more CPs! Is it clever? No idea

This issue with wazbom it’s priced fine.. 230 is a lot for it..(you can do 210 without supa shootas) but the problem is wazbom provided one of the only hard hitting heavy weapon units for orks…. Without wazbom you are relying on a lot of str 5/6 ap-1/2 bs5 dam 1-2 shots to take down the current meta of durable -1dam high save units. You probably are better going evil sun and relying on alot of deffkoptas… plus the Dakkajet is a pretty efficient aircraft in speedmob… you can use the reroll 1 strat to make those 42+ shots to have more accuracy but you still need at least 1 wazbom.

gungo wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
Also some FW points changes:

Kannonwagon -20
Squiggoth - 20
Gargantuan Squiggoth -50
Kustom Stompa -50

Squiggoth is interesting as a gun platform BUT they should really have gotten the squig keyword. I mean it’s not competitive unless Tankbustas go down in price or lootas become more efficient shooting. But honestly what I want is both squiggoth and giant squiggoths to get squog keyword and then snakebite kultur to remove the str8 limit and then only effect Calvary, infantry and monster units… that would make ork snakebite lists decent.

Also mozrog went up 15pts as well (185) he was already bad before
(squigboss is mostly dead)
And
Flashgitz went down 2ppm (25)

I completely disagree with goonhammer orks took a big enough hit to go down in competitor rankings. Killakans are useless in a goff pressure list and meganobs are interesting but not competitive enough. The fact they think killakans who don’t benefit from kultur and provides very little pressure will do anything in a goff pressure list shows how little they understand orks. If you read thier articles you will see how only 1 of them ever plays orks and it’s not even one of his main armies. This is the ork players problem. Orks are a low A high B tier.. until we see drukari take an actual hit… (tau also are going to have an alpha strike problem). I don’t expect any fixes to ork rules in quarterly update.. I mean they should fix nob biker rules and squiggoth get squig keywords and orks get an infantry rule fix but that won’t happen.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tomsug wrote:
Wazboom seems to have a problem in my Speed Mob anyway.

On the one side, Tau comes to the table shooting him down ASAP.

On the other side I have to vote.

1. Either boost 2 jets via Freeboota strat (those, that will die soon)

2. Play ES and focus on bikers and Koptas. In such list 210p fragile wazboom without +1 to hit sounds pretty bad.

Heck, ES Speed Mob can be pressed in one single outrider detachement and have more CPs! Is it clever? No idea

This issue with wazbom it’s priced fine.. 230 is a lot for it..(you can do 210 without supa shootas) but the problem is wazbom provided one of the only hard hitting heavy weapon units for orks…. Without wazbom you are relying on a lot of str 5/6 ap-1/2 bs5 dam 1-2 shots to take down the current meta of durable -1dam high save units. You probably are better going evil sun and relying on alot of deffkoptas… plus the Dakkajet is a pretty efficient aircraft in speedmob… you can use the reroll 1 strat to make those 42+ shots to have more accuracy but you still need at least 1 wazbom.

Legit I laughed out loud when I saw that they increased the points for our Squigboss SC character too. I guess it makes sense from a consistency standpoint from the absurd amount of points that the Squigboss got increased by, but it's really silly when you look within the context of guys like Trajann Valoris going DOWN to points like 160 given how much utility he has in a Custodes army AND he's a good beatstick. Versus the Squigboss, which is really only getting by on his tankiness and okay CC output. But at his current points cost you're better off taking two generic foot warbosses.

I guess it's good they remembered Flash Gitz exist, but at a measly 2ppm decrease? Nowhere near what is needed to be considered viable, especially considering how devalued D2 weapons are right now in the meta, they're incredibly overcosted for what they do still.

Overall, you can tell again GW really just changed prices based on what they saw people taking and not based around an understanding of what's wrong/working within the codex. Pretty meh update overall, but I guess business as usual for us greenie ladz. We'll krump em all the same.

SemperMortis wrote:


KW is still crap, I don't have a clue about squiggoths because I don't own/use them. Kustom Stompa...holy christ, The regular stompa is 675pts and not taken because its still crap and some muppet at GW thought "you know what? lets drop that kustom one from 800 to 750, that will fix it!"

I'd disagree on the KW being crap. It's certainly not the best unit in the book, and like most things in the book is overshadowed by buggies and koptas due to its cost, but it puts out a good amount of very long range firepower on a platform that's fairly bulky and fast enough that it can reposition and effectively threaten a good amount of the board at any given time.

I agree with the stompa assessment though. Completely unusable for anything other than narrative games or silly meme lists.

All wagons problems consist of 1 problem…
Nearly everything they can transport is junk!
I mean at 105 pts the battlewagon is a durable transport if there was 20 model unit I want to put in it! 20x boys are awful and 10x meganobs are bad too… there is a reason why we only see min squad trukk boys being the only varient that’s mildly useful with these models.

Also the kannonwagon is okay but it needs the actual wagon keyword… you might actually see it used in the speedmob army of renown list if they did that…

Also don ´t agree Kannonwagon is a junk.

Semper consider just the pure weapon output but ignores the speed and range. It was pretty good B tier unit. With 20p sale even better.

Don ´ t even speak about inbuilt benefit of +1 BS.

BS 5+ affected by -1 to hit means 50% effectivity down

BS 4+ affected by -1 to hit means just 33% down

Seems that wagonz + 5 meganobz are gona become somewhat viable. They do look interesting now compared to trukk meganobz.
Too bad kommandoez went up in cost. I've just finished converting some boyz and now they cost 10 more. Oh, well. Still gona use them, I guess.
Btw, check them out:

Wagon + 5 MANs + 10 Grots.

Grots are absolute must.

 Tomsug wrote:
Wagon + 5 MANs + 10 Grots.

Grots are absolute must.

Or +5 kommandoez. Costs pretty close

gungo wrote:

 Afrodactyl wrote:

 Tomsug wrote:
Another rule change in February? What? Seriously? This is insane. It means we cannot plan the lists and know the game for more than month?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
But it makes sence. If you change the game every month, you don' t need to do the FAQ and solve the problem. Just make another change. In sich speed, nobody will be able to say, the rule is unbalanced. Clever…

Hopefully the relatively frequent points patches will let GW see where they need to amend their points changes as the edition goes on.

Technically they said the quarterly updates are rules balance patches and won’t contain point changes..
Point changes are still only done in chapter approved which is about 6+ months…

However I agree with the sentiment that they should just remove points from the codex and put the points online or just leave it in a matched play point sheet online in the faq/errata section. People already get the points for free in both the Gw app and BattleScribe so it’s not hiding anything and they still need to buy the codex/chapter approved for the rules. They can leave powerratings in the codex so that people who are learning to play can just use that at first until they get into more matched playstyle games. Putting points in the codex is now useless.. ffs custodes has points changes in chapter approved and they just got released last week.

Just played a 1500pt game. The killrig worked well as a bullet sponge but The beastboss was deadly but fragile and it was a draw.
I never got to charge my wurrtower as I got denied every time.

 koooaei wrote:

 Tomsug wrote:
Wagon + 5 MANs + 10 Grots.

Grots are absolute must.

Or +5 kommandoez. Costs pretty close

No! You need more bodies! Wagon explodes, emergency disembark. You need cheap bodies.

 koooaei wrote:
Seems that wagonz + 5 meganobz are gona become somewhat viable. They do look interesting now compared to trukk meganobz.
Too bad kommandoez went up in cost. I've just finished converting some boyz and now they cost 10 more. Oh, well. Still gona use them, I guess.
Btw, check them out:

Spoiler:

What does the wagon provide that’s better then trukk meganobs?
I mean a 5x trukk meganobs with a megaarmor warboss all trukk boys in a trukk is a good unit.
Something like below is better then a wagon.. w meganobs.

Double patrol- freebooter
Warboss on bike-BBK, killaklaw
Kommando x5
Meganob x5 dualsaw-trukkboy
Trukk

Beastsnagga x10
Squigbuggy-nitro squig
Killrig

Warboss on megaarmor-trukk boy, ard as nails, cybork
Kommando x5
Beastsnagga x10

Deffkopta x3
Deffkopta x3
Killrig

Dakkajet x2 suppashoota
Wazbom x2 tellyporta, kff

This list should be okay depending on how bad killrigs have it with new tau.