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2022/05/18 06:51:01
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
LeRufus wrote: Quick question: Can i put Badrukk in a Goff List or Zagstruk into a Freebooter List?
I am not so sure with the new "No Soup" regulations^^
you can include badrukk in a goff detatchment.
But you cant include zagstruk in anything other than a goff detatchment.
Badrukk is a "specialist Ladz" but zagstruk is not.
That's not entirely true.
You can put Zagstruk in an army of freebootas, but his detachment would lose their culture.
The anti-soup rule only applies to models which have the actual <CLAN> keyword, but not to units which have a fixed clan like our named characters.
wait what?
As far as i understand, badrukk would not get his own klan in a deathskulls detatchment but the deathskulls would keep theirs.
How is that different when using a non specialist lad? The way i read what you said i get it as zagstrukk too would lose his own kulture but they keep theirs. It sounds just like a normal specialist ladz?
Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.
- About Dawn of War 3
2022/05/18 09:29:32
Subject: Re:Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
You can still get multiple Clan traits if you trick around with patrol detachments and specialist lads.
Main detachment of your choice, for example Goffs.
Snakebite patrol detachment with Mozrog and Trukk boys or orrible gitz.
Freebooters patrol detachment with Badrukk and Trukk boys or orrible gitz.
As you only need to have the same <clan> keyword if possible that list would still be legal as the special characters + all specialist mobs don't have that. So up to 3 clan traits but you can only play 1 HQ and 1 specialist troop because otherwise the mono clan restriction would kick in.
And of course you'll only get the trait for those HQ's and might have some limitations on transport and certain auras.
And of course the specialist lads Thraka, Badrukk, Magari, Grotsnik and Zodgrod who can be part of any detachment but don't get the clan Trait unless the detachment matches their own clan keyword but also don't prevent the units in said detachment to gain the clan culture.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/18 09:33:40
2022/05/18 10:31:24
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Beardedragon wrote: How is that different when using a non specialist lad? The way i read what you said i get it as zagstrukk too would lose his own kulture but they keep theirs. It sounds just like a normal specialist ladz?
You only get a culture if all units in a detachment have the same culture or are specialist ladz.
Zagstrukk + GOFF boyz => GOFF detachment, Goff culture for all
Badrukk + GOFF boyz => GOFF detachment, Goff culture for boyz, no culture for Badrukk
Zagstrukk + FREEBOOTA boyz => ORK detachment, no culture for anyone
Badrukk + trukk boyz => FREEBOOTA detachment, freeboota culture for Badrukk, no culture for trukkboyz
FREEBOOTA warboss + GOFF boyz => illegal detachment in GT2022, tempest of war, ORK detachment in other mission packs.
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2022/05/18 11:12:55
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Beardedragon wrote: How is that different when using a non specialist lad? The way i read what you said i get it as zagstrukk too would lose his own kulture but they keep theirs. It sounds just like a normal specialist ladz?
You only get a culture if all units in a detachment have the same culture or are specialist ladz.
Zagstrukk + GOFF boyz => GOFF detachment, Goff culture for all
Badrukk + GOFF boyz => GOFF detachment, Goff culture for boyz, no culture for Badrukk
Zagstrukk + FREEBOOTA boyz => ORK detachment, no culture for anyone
Badrukk + trukk boyz => FREEBOOTA detachment, freeboota culture for Badrukk, no culture for trukkboyz
FREEBOOTA warboss + GOFF boyz => illegal detachment in GT2022, tempest of war, ORK detachment in other mission packs.
now thats a really useful way to make people understand it.
thanks. apparently i did not understand it at all
Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.
- About Dawn of War 3
2022/05/19 04:48:25
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Joe Rammuni was 8th at Motor City Mayhem - only ork list in CI with note:
You love to see it folks – sometimes a hero enters the arena to take an underperforming faction to the promised land and in this case Joe was that hero. Leveraging Ghaz, a couple of Wazbom jets, and a whole mess of Goff Beast Snaggas and Squighog Boyz he successfully took down two different Tyranid lists before losing to Manik in the main event, and again in the final cut. A heroic run nonetheless. Joe lost to Manik in the quarterfinals match.
Which could be discussed on facticity but that is not important. Goonhammer is not the source of ork wisdom and everybody knows it. Important is the perception of the orks. Becasue Goonhammer is very good mirror of the general atmosphere based on direct inputs from the people in top meta. They don' t give a gak about orks anymore. Nerf time is definitely over. Since now we are again nice and cute interesting rare faction.
+ HQ + Beastboss on Squigosaur [9 PL, -1CP, 175pts]: 4. Brutal but Kunnin, Headwoppa's Killchoppa, Stratagem: Big Boss
Painboss [5 PL, -2CP, 80pts]: 2. Big Gob, Power Snappa, Stratagem: Big Boss, Stratagem: Extra Gubbinz, Super Cybork Body
Weirdboy [4 PL, 70pts]: 2. Warpath, 3. Da Jump
Trying to put together a fun and non competitive list. Im pretty much working off of what is built and I can play fast games with. Buddy is still learning and I havent played in a while.
Dr.Duck wrote:Trying to put together a fun and non competitive list. Im pretty much working off of what is built and I can play fast games with. Buddy is still learning and I havent played in a while.
Debating on whether spending 100pts on the Bursta Kannons is worth it.
As far as klan goes I just really like snikrot and was running kommandos. Just as easily cut him and run as something else.
Honestly, I would consider a list with tripple killtanks neither fun nor fit to face a player still learning. Just replace them with walkers, wagons or squigs?
LeRufus wrote:Another One: In your Opinion, Ghazkull in a 1000 Points List? Too Expensive?
Maybe. Most 1k point missions expect you to be in multiple places, bringing a 300 point brick will severely limit your ability to split up unless the rest of your army is MSU infantry, for example small mobs of beast snagga boyz, kommadoz or MANz.
Thrakka in a vehicle list or one with other expensive units will make you unable to win the mission.
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2022/05/19 14:47:52
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Another great succes in top competitve ork level in the international scale - I have 1 first and 4 second places on Prague GT!!
Well actualy, 1 win, 4 losses and it was my first GT ever
One win 20:0 for me, two games “I ´m a prick, I could easily win just the screen right or something”, one loss 11:9 againts eldar guy that finsihed 4th and one 20:0 loss againts another speed mob.
So I lm very happy. And very happy with my list. No changes required. Itp s about my praxis and knowledge of other armies.
The only game I have honestly no idea how to win is a mirror match againts another speed mob while going second. Who goes first do enough damage to make a game. It could be like 18:2 but not better. Speed Mob is simply too huge to hide againts another Spees Mob. Or maybe I will find the way but know I have no idea!
Lessons learned (on the tournament and in a training games before)
- single Shockjump do nothing. Useless screening buggy.
- snazzwagon actualy do quite a lot of damage!
- it´ s all about the wazbooms. If you keep them alive and shoot in two turns to the right targets, you propably win. In they die after one turn, you are in hell. All lost games was a fails in this.
- we are bloody good in screening the field. Deepstriking armies suffered like a hell!
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh yes, and I ´m the second in painting competition.
So my targets succesfully reached. To win one game and score in painting
Automatically Appended Next Post: Goonhammer posted meta analasys of Orks. There are some really incredible theories, like that it' s a perfect idea to protect your Boyz (100p dedicated to die) by the base of the wazbooms (230p dedicated to live and shoot) or that the best idea how to move Ghazzy is by Da Jump (ghazzy is not a core, so it doesn' t work) or that Stomp ' Em Good is a great secondary? Or that Squighog boyz are great for T1 charge?
Or do I miss something?
Wazboms didn’t go away, you just can’t take four of them anymore! They’re still very strong from a pure output standpoint, and can act as solid screening for your Squighog boyz and other units – while your opponent can still walk across the bases, they can’t end up on top of them, so with careful placement of your models you can ensure that your boyz aren’t easily charged while the jets are still up.
Even beyond the jets, this is an incredibly fast list – the slowest parts are Ghaz and the Beast Snaggas, but the plan is to shoot them across the table early with Da Jump. The Squighog boyz are a big part of the army’s early strategy, with a Waaagh!-boosted threat range of 20” on average and with a re-roll or two in the mix something closer to 24”. That’s not so much a guaranteed first-turn charge going first on missions where you are 24” apart, so it may often behoove players with this list to play a bit more cagey on turn 1 if there’s no good target. Otherwise, they’re a great meta play for hunting down Tyranid MONSTERS, and even when going up against Hive Fleet Leviathan’s transhuman bonus you’ll often still be able to make use of the Monster Hunterz Stratagem against T7+ targets.
Most games you’ll be taking Stomp ‘Em Good to take advantage of your army’s melee prowess, and even if you don’t get off a nasty turn 1 charge you’ll usually be able to max it on the other four turns. After that, Stranglehold and Banners will be your best non-kill secondary options, since you’ve got the bodies to hold backfield objectives and your army is more than happy to fight over the middle of the table if that’s where an opponent wants to go. That said, Tyranids are still a problem for this army, particularly if it can’t make things happen turn 1 and pick up a big bug or two.
Like most playtesters or most competitive players; goonhammer has no one who actually plays orks competitively giving any analysis… they regularly get things wrong and the rest of the player base takes what they say as gospel.
2022/05/20 02:13:05
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
I prefer Art of War, they have been on point for everything orky in the current meta. In GH the only one with a semblance of know how i think it's the drukari one? Pardon dunno names, his photo is usually on drukkari cameo, but he managed to digest the changes for our buggies last nerf. But that's about IT. The reason i like AoW is because they involve all armies and give a comprehensive exposition. GH just talks of high meta and they feel SM bias.
2022/05/20 08:49:41
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
gungo wrote: Like most playtesters or most competitive players; goonhammer has no one who actually plays orks competitively giving any analysis… they regularly get things wrong and the rest of the player base takes what they say as gospel.
If you are a competitive 40k player you are not playing orks. Marshal Peterson is doing about the best you can possibly do with orks when you play to the missions and don't make mistakes. 10th place out of 200 is one of the best placings by one of the best ork players means you can't take a GT podium with them. Any mistakes punish more than most armies and in general that is not going to appeal to a competitive player. They tried orks, realized what was there did not work as well for competitive play and moved on.
10000 points 7000 6000 5000 5000 2000
2022/05/20 14:34:44
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
gungo wrote: Like most playtesters or most competitive players; goonhammer has no one who actually plays orks competitively giving any analysis… they regularly get things wrong and the rest of the player base takes what they say as gospel.
If you are a competitive 40k player you are not playing orks. Marshal Peterson is doing about the best you can possibly do with orks when you play to the missions and don't make mistakes. 10th place out of 200 is one of the best placings by one of the best ork players means you can't take a GT podium with them. Any mistakes punish more than most armies and in general that is not going to appeal to a competitive player. They tried orks, realized what was there did not work as well for competitive play and moved on.
I have a very limited perspective of 9th but coming from 8th we have lost so many unique rules etc. Lost Dakka Dakka Dakka/Extra Dakka, auto hitting on 6s and getting a extra shot.
I really dont understand the limitaion of not being able to split buggy squadrons. It is the only unit entry that I know of that is of a similar unit type/base size etc that cannot split upon deploying (Dreads, Mek Guns, other vehicle squadrons, Void weavers etc). On top of this we got 0-1. I feel like a eratta that adds can split is really needed now more than ever. I would definitely make buggies better but would it break them?
In casual games I see my self justs asking the opponent if I can split. Im more than willing to overlook the 0-1.
2022/05/20 14:59:36
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
gungo wrote: Like most playtesters or most competitive players; goonhammer has no one who actually plays orks competitively giving any analysis… they regularly get things wrong and the rest of the player base takes what they say as gospel.
If you are a competitive 40k player you are not playing orks. Marshal Peterson is doing about the best you can possibly do with orks when you play to the missions and don't make mistakes. 10th place out of 200 is one of the best placings by one of the best ork players means you can't take a GT podium with them. Any mistakes punish more than most armies and in general that is not going to appeal to a competitive player. They tried orks, realized what was there did not work as well for competitive play and moved on.
I have a very limited perspective of 9th but coming from 8th we have lost so many unique rules etc. Lost Dakka Dakka Dakka/Extra Dakka, auto hitting on 6s and getting a extra shot.
I really dont understand the limitaion of not being able to split buggy squadrons. It is the only unit entry that I know of that is of a similar unit type/base size etc that cannot split upon deploying (Dreads, Mek Guns, other vehicle squadrons, Void weavers etc). On top of this we got 0-1. I feel like a eratta that adds can split is really needed now more than ever. I would definitely make buggies better but would it break them?
In casual games I see my self justs asking the opponent if I can split. Im more than willing to overlook the 0-1.
It's GW using a hammer rather than a scalpel as usualy when it comes to addressing rules. Especially for "NPC" factions like Orks, GW doesn't bother with nuanced approaches, since it basically kills Kustom Jobs in the codex (not that they were great to begin with...). Frankly it should either be the way it was back in 8th ed with how the Speed Mob rule worked or for them to change the restriction to 3 models max of each buggy per army.
2022/05/20 15:47:15
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
gungo wrote: Like most playtesters or most competitive players; goonhammer has no one who actually plays orks competitively giving any analysis… they regularly get things wrong and the rest of the player base takes what they say as gospel.
If you are a competitive 40k player you are not playing orks. Marshal Peterson is doing about the best you can possibly do with orks when you play to the missions and don't make mistakes. 10th place out of 200 is one of the best placings by one of the best ork players means you can't take a GT podium with them. Any mistakes punish more than most armies and in general that is not going to appeal to a competitive player. They tried orks, realized what was there did not work as well for competitive play and moved on.
Even when orks had a 55% win rate and won the socal open in A meta dominated by broken admech and drukari… not a single competitive player switched to orks (except manny)… all they did was complain and whine about how orks are completely broken…how multiple units beyond squigbuggies OLoS shooting needed to be nerfed and how armies like drukari only needed a few adjustments… now it’s the same song about CWE and how they are fine… there is a strong bias to orks having competitive units.. there was no reason to limit buggies to 1 unit when they already had massive point increases in chapter approved, no reason to significantly increase points on kommandos, or beastboss on squig or even Killrig. They basically took decent units that weren’t broken and made them situational. Right now you can revert the squigbuggy point hike and remove the unit restriction on buggies and no one would play squigbuggies because the real issue was Olos shooting. Scrapjet is fine with it’s point increase and the aircraft limit is needed due to bad aircraft rules. Reverting those changes won’t make orks a top competitive army anymore the meta has already had several power creeps..
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/20 15:47:30
2022/05/20 19:35:38
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Quick question - Quick answer: Can i give my Kill Rig "Big Boss"? If so which trait can be given to it? Battle Scribe allows to check "Big Boss" but doesnt give me any choices for traits ^^'
2022/05/20 20:25:55
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
LeRufus wrote: Quick question - Quick answer: Can i give my Kill Rig "Big Boss"? If so which trait can be given to it? Battle Scribe allows to check "Big Boss" but doesnt give me any choices for traits ^^'
I dont know about Battlescribe, but the Killrig is restricted to only the Beastgob warlord trait by page 51 of the Ork codex.
2022/05/21 07:42:15
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
I'm toying around with a list to bring to a local tournament next month. It's 1500 points, and the meta isn't super competitive, but I still want to do well. What do you all think of this list?
Automatically Appended Next Post: I'm trying to revive a Bad Moons shooting list, but our lootas are just so bad right now. I thought that the maxed squads of warbikes are pretty close, and the added range of badmoons and additional ap on 6's is really nice.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/21 16:46:33
God is real!
2022/05/22 04:58:59
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
gungo wrote: Like most playtesters or most competitive players; goonhammer has no one who actually plays orks competitively giving any analysis… they regularly get things wrong and the rest of the player base takes what they say as gospel.
If you are a competitive 40k player you are not playing orks. Marshal Peterson is doing about the best you can possibly do with orks when you play to the missions and don't make mistakes. 10th place out of 200 is one of the best placings by one of the best ork players means you can't take a GT podium with them. Any mistakes punish more than most armies and in general that is not going to appeal to a competitive player. They tried orks, realized what was there did not work as well for competitive play and moved on.
No, it means he couldn't. On that day, vs those specific opponents, with whatever dice rolls/terrain/etc were involved.
2022/05/22 09:43:29
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Sorry to interrupt your discussion how is it impossible to be better than 10th with the orks guys, but Luke Newell is 4th on War Calls GT with his goff and ghazzi list now. List:
Nob on Smasha Squig [4 PL, -2CP, 65pts]: 1. Big Killa Boss (Beast Snagga), Big Choppa, Headwoppa's Killchoppa, Slugga, Smasha Squig Jaws, Stratagem: Big Boss [-1CP], Stratagem: Extra Gubbinz [-1CP]
+ HQ [5 PL, -1CP, 105pts] +
Warboss [5 PL, -1CP, 105pts]: 4. Brutal but Kunnin, Attack Squig [5pts], Da Killa Klaw, Kombi-rokkit, Power Klaw [10pts], 2x Slugga, Stikkbombs, Stratagem: Big Boss [-1CP], Trukk Boyz
+ Troops [5 PL, 100pts] +
Boyz [5 PL, 100pts]
. Boss Nob [19pts]: Choppa, Power Klaw [10pts], Stikkbombs
. 9x Ork Boy w/ Slugga & Choppa [81pts]: 9x Choppa, 9x Slugga, 9x Stikkbombs
I was checking the Marshal Peterson list from Seatle US Open and I found another interesting name and results hidden deeper.
Notoriously known Ben Jurek played very similar goff list like Luke here and his results was in first games much better than Marschal Peterson - 100/100/87/68/100/93/91/92 with just a single loss againts Harlequins. If he wins, he could be better than Marschall - and not 17th like he is…
gungo wrote: Like most playtesters or most competitive players; goonhammer has no one who actually plays orks competitively giving any analysis… they regularly get things wrong and the rest of the player base takes what they say as gospel.
If you are a competitive 40k player you are not playing orks. Marshal Peterson is doing about the best you can possibly do with orks when you play to the missions and don't make mistakes. 10th place out of 200 is one of the best placings by one of the best ork players means you can't take a GT podium with them. Any mistakes punish more than most armies and in general that is not going to appeal to a competitive player. They tried orks, realized what was there did not work as well for competitive play and moved on.
No, it means he couldn't. On that day, vs those specific opponents, with whatever dice rolls/terrain/etc were involved.
No, its a very good anecdote which teamed with the plethora of other tournament results combine to form a picture where Orkz just are not a top tier army and are at best around middle tier and at worst...The high end of the lowest tier.
Why you people insist on highlighting our faction negatives, when clearly there are some positives too? You always just stampede anything positive here.
2022/05/22 19:21:19
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
I had a funny game againts new chaos knights vs. my Speed Mob. I 've been crumped like a hell. But lesson learned!
Hell! Some another new meta stuff that is little bit too much!
What I found how to defeat them:
1. You cannot kill them. It is too much! On the other side, they can surely kill youin two turns. So keep heads down! Hide!
2. Their disadventages are
- slow
- big bases
- low model count
3. The small knights are much more dangerous than big ones. Focus all fire on the small ones. Ignore the big ones. Kill small ones ASAP.
4. Block big ones move by sacrificing a buggy or one biker squad per turn in their way to keep them home. Take the secondaries that makes them move to you and troll them with the move blocks.
5. Secondaries:
- Bring it down (12-15 easily)
- Bitz to make him move to you. But he is slow. And you block him in the movement. With a good terrain, you can get to 12Vp
- Engage - you score something, nothing much. Like 8 or something.
6. primaries - with just two big robots on the table (because small are dead) he is unable to score well since T3. Badskull Banner makes another 4VP swing. You can beat them on points something like 80:50 with just a few ork models left hiden behind the ruins.
It is hard as hell, but itis doable.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2022/05/22 19:44:07
10k p fullpaint orks ready to krump! …
