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gungo wrote:


For bring it down it’s ghaz, wazbom, 2x killrig- that’s only max 10 if they all die..

Abhor the witch isn’t bad anymore as only 3 psykers means a max 9 victory points.

I can see your point of view. I would really would like to try out, but i would need to cut something of my list and that would be meganobz on wagon.

I am not sure how that would go, but it would be funny making a full squighog(full of snagas maybe? might be expensive) + kill rig + Gaz + Beastboss on squigosaur charge with MW sprinkles.
I can even see turn 1 KFF like you guys mentioned followed be big waaaggh providing some decent -1AP for AoC and charges.
But i don't have the models of most of my list, so i will be painting and updating my list as it goes.

So, played my bloodaxe tide yesterday and delivered a 90-65 krumpin to my DA and genestealer opponents in a tempest of war game despite getting wiped out completely except for seven boyz across three units.

Highlights:
- New Waaagh! is awesome. The army-wide 5++ reduced casualties by a lot and allowed to still have a lot of punching power in turn 3. Extra strength makes a huge difference
- Pairing it with a KFF was the right decision. Using it for defense only would have been a waste, they offensive buffs are extremely important.
- Burnas just running up the field with boyz did surprisingly well, but KMB and zzapkrumpas are a waste of points. Flamers were just generally good, cuttas are decent against AoC units.
- Nobz are still bad and drop to extremely bad when facing AoC or -1 damage. I'll continue to avoid them. Big choppas stuck out to me as especially bad, as they were worse than regular choppas against inner circle and T3 units.
- Lootas suck bad. Three units of 7+1 I used to fill out the brigade failed to do anything of relevance despite not losing a single member until turn 4. I see no reason to bring them over mek guns.
- I had a unit of 30 'orrible gitz backed with a runtherd with squighound and ran them into my opponent's deathwing castle in midfield. With +1S, +1A, 5++ and +1 to hit from Zodgrod (don't try this at home) they managed to murder his apothecary, flip the objective and annoy him so much with their -1 to hit debuff that they got clobbered by two deathwing squads, belial and a storm raven the following turn. An absolute win in my book.
- Bloodaxe Stormboyz did great during the Waaagh!, with the option to boost them to S6 my units of 10 could easily flip an objective and assassinate two characters and the stuck around for another turn thanks to having a 5++ despite being in remote places.
- Slugga Boyz were ok-ish while the Waaagh! lasted, garbage afterwards. Next time, I'm going to replace all of them with beast snaggas, as they are essentially boyz which are always in the second stage of the Waaagh! and a unit of 10 is just 10 points more than boyz with a PK.
- Putting PKs on every single boss nob was definitely worth it, especially against the AoC units.
- Shoota boyz were decent backfield action monkeys as bare bone squad for 80 points. Gretchin would not have survived in their place.
- Weirdboy didn't really add any value, neither Jabbin Fingers nor Warpath had any notable impact. Da Jump could actually have had some value due to the nature of tempest of war and because it combines well with other bloodaxe shenanigans. Going to try a wurrboy next time.
- I denied a lot of VP to my opponents by running nearly dead mobs towards the edge and place them in reserves, just to have the re-appear in safe locations, extra kunnin' made a few of those free to use.
- 'finking cap generated exactly 2 CP, straight shoota is useless compared to shiney shoota, fight detecta was a good protection against various deep-striking shooting units.
- Duk and kovva combo with the SAG was foiled by GSC snipers just not giving a damn about Look out Sir.
- Mob rule saved one ork boy!

The bad:
- I feel like there is no way to kill deathwing units with orks anymore. By the end of the game just three blade guard and one terminator in each squad were dead, plus the apothecary. I also had no tools to kill his redemptor and storm raven. Definitely need wazzboms and mek guns to handle durable marine units.
- While I was super annoyed that the GSC player had a kult that effectively gave him AoC, I feel like they are on equal footing with orks. Which isn't too shabby, I right?

In general, I'm going to switch to DG for a while, but I think the new Waaagh! really is a gamechanger for orks if used correctly. Calling it in turn 1 definitely is not the way to go unless you can reach a lot of enemy units.

Thx Jidmah for the insight's, I find it really useful, maybe you could have more in the future, when your not playing DG, like Deff Dread, squighogs kills rigs, maybe dakkajets and such?
Not sure if you have the models.

Quick Question as I am not familiar with this, how does this work?

*- I denied a lot of VP to my opponents by running nearly dead mobs towards the edge and place them in reserves, just to have the re-appear in safe locations, extra kunnin' made a few of those free to use.*

Is it a Stratagem? Can anyone do it? Is it Blood Axes only? Thanks!

My kill rig is still being printed (don't like the model, so I'm getting something unique) but I own or can borrow most ork codex kits.

As for squighogs, I play them a lot but people are deadly afraid of them and kill them at literally all costs, including overextending valuable units and giving up objectives. That's great for me, as they are awesome bullet sponges, but doesn't lend itself to great tactics.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

LeRufus wrote:
Quick Question as I am not familiar with this, how does this work?

*- I denied a lot of VP to my opponents by running nearly dead mobs towards the edge and place them in reserves, just to have the re-appear in safe locations, extra kunnin' made a few of those free to use.*

Is it a Stratagem? Can anyone do it? Is it Blood Axes only? Thanks!

Yes, the bloodaxe clan stratagem lets you place an infantry unit that is within 3" of the table edge into strategic reserves. Not that useful for playing matched play missions, but in tempest of war many objectives count units destroyed.

Nice to hear the KFF worked out. Funny how that garbo strat has probably turned into an auto take from me if I go normal waaaagh.

And yeah, people clinging onto boys, even with these changes, are just being silly. Snagga is the future. Truck boys have a place, but you're paying 10 more points (after you buy a klaw in boys) to get +1 str, 6++, better access to strats (some Snagga strats are fine, just expensive...), +1 to hit vs monsters and vehicles (relevant a lot of the time), and also gain access to Kill Rigs, which might see a bit of a resurgence with the points drop and multiple turns of 5++.

 koooaei wrote:
Agree on painboyz being bad. Our infantry is either bad or prefers msu and relies on transports to function.

Now I do like makari fnp as it works on everything. Fnp scrap jets and wagons are nice. I've also had ok-ish results with killa Kans running alongside. They don't really so much but are relatively tanky and can score or deter enemy from rushing midboard early on.

Don't get me wrong about the good bits. It's not a bad secondary but you can't take it together with banners. And banners are better. You can easilly raise banners in your dz and raise a banner mid board with any infantry including characters. And they're gonna eventually outscore those 5-10 pts you're gonna get with good bits.
They also don't require to waste more pts on grots.

If you take grots (especially if you have them in a transport for addtional movement t1) I genuinely don't see how you are getting less that 15 VP for Get the good bits. I'm genuinely tempted by a grot herder for the additional 1" movement.

CaptainO wrote:
I'm genuinely tempted by a grot herder for the additional 1" movement.

That´d be the day when we saw Runtherds back in play

In other notes. Anyone noticed the subtle wording on Da Biggest that the destroyed by attack clause doesn´t say melee? Meaning the WL can actually shoot stuff for points too.

im assuming that Nobz with big choppas and normal choppers are still bad, but big choppas DO hit with str 8 now with the new waaagh if you run them as trukk boyz.

So hitting on 3s, and wounding on 2s against most space marine variants.

Im gonna have to try this out.

Hitting on 3s, wound on 2s and 0AP. Which means that against your average space marine a nob completely whiffs 44% of the time despite +1 A, +1S.
Against a plague marine, bikes or gravis model 53% of the time.
Against any 2+ model 68% of the time.
Against DG terminators your whiff 74% of the time, and the pinacle are deathwing terminators where you just have a ~20% chance to damage them at all.

Which pretty much matches my experience with them. AoC has neutered the big choppa, if you expect to face space marine, don't waste points on them. Get a PK or stick with choppas.

Yeah, big choppa as a weapon it is currently is DoA. Needs to be AP-2 minimum and either cheaper or borderline free to ever compete against the PK or Killsaw.

tulun wrote:
Banners outscoring good bits I think is a bit of a bad take.

I think Good bits can be a trivial 10+ secondary if you build for it. Keep in mind grots score it automatically end of turn.

You can literally park a truck in your d-zone and have units of grots cycle out of (to gain an 8" move) to score it, as 8" is usually enough to get from your d-zone to an objective. 3 units of grots + 1 truck to score you 9 without any other effort seems like a no brainer to me. Good bits also scores end of game, so if you have any units that don't even score it automatically, they can do so turn 5 if you go 2nd safely.

Banners is good and all but I think its going to b stupidly easy to build around good bits.

Agreed. The speed and ease with which you can score close to 15Vp with some tailoring makes me think GTGB is quality. I noticed that in Mission 33 I wasn't able to disembark the grots from a battlewagon and reach the central objective (middle of the battlefield so more than 8" away from the deployment zone which has made me investigate the grot herder for that ever so important +1" movement)

I’d like to try a list made for get the good bits, psychic interrogations and assasinate/bring it down..
That limits my opponents missions..
This list only gives out a
Max 10 for bring it down
Max 9 for abhor the witch
Max 12 for assassinate
Max 12 no prisoners if you kill everything…
And limit characters for completing Psychic interrogations.
This forces my opponent to accept assasinate as max 12 vp…
Go for psychic interrogations if they can but keep my characters alive so they can score VP
Or attempt missions like raise banners or engage (or faction specific) where they need to compete with my army for mid table board control.

 Scactha wrote:

CaptainO wrote:
I'm genuinely tempted by a grot herder for the additional 1" movement.

That´d be the day when we saw Runtherds back in play

In other notes. Anyone noticed the subtle wording on Da Biggest that the destroyed by attack clause doesn´t say melee? Meaning the WL can actually shoot stuff for points too.

You'll have to wipe that unit out so its only "usefull" if you've chipped all but 1 or 2 wounds left on a model. Ghaz has...ok shooting. Best of the warbosses.

 Jidmah wrote:
Hitting on 3s, wound on 2s and 0AP. Which means that against your average space marine a nob completely whiffs 44% of the time despite +1 A, +1S.
Against a plague marine, bikes or gravis model 53% of the time.
Against any 2+ model 68% of the time.
Against DG terminators your whiff 74% of the time, and the pinacle are deathwing terminators where you just have a ~20% chance to damage them at all.

Which pretty much matches my experience with them. AoC has neutered the big choppa, if you expect to face space marine, don't waste points on them. Get a PK or stick with choppas.

my point was it was better than normal choppers, not that it was excellent as whole. You get 40 big choppa hits (hits on 3s, wound on 2s, 2 dmg) and 10 choppa hits (hits on 3s, wound on 3s) from 10 nobz with.. well big choppas.

Or 60 choppa hits (hits on 3s, wound on 3s, 1 damage) with dual choppers from nobs.

I would, in this case, probably go for the big choppa rather than the double choppas, since big choppas will now be str 8 as trukk boyz on a waaagh. They are also more flexible as being str 8 means you can reliably deal some damage to vehicles who are toughness 8 or 7.

Save those points in Big Choppas and take some with Klaw / Choppa, and the rest double choppa.

I bet those nobs perform better. (say, 2 Klaw / choppa, and 3 double choppa nobs)

That's the real problem. BC just aren't strong enough over a Choppa / choppa, and just taking a couple Klaws instead will overcome the hump they run into.

Every time i have ran Nobz i have never ran pure paid weapons. Its usually 6 bigchoppas 4 dualchoppas, because odds are 4 of them will die very quickly at minimum anyway.

Thats only 30 more points to upgrade to PKs which will kill marines. The only reason i used Bigchoppas before was because i simply didnt need it, but now bigchoppas are just pointless.

And of course, upping them to 2ap will be met with "You have a powa stabba for that" arguments....despite the fact that Powastabbas have literally never made sense for their cost.

gungo wrote:
I’d like to try a list made for get the good bits, psychic interrogations and assasinate/bring it down..
That limits my opponents missions..
This list only gives out a
Max 10 for bring it down
Max 9 for abhor the witch
Max 12 for assassinate
Max 12 no prisoners if you kill everything…
And limit characters for completing Psychic interrogations.
This forces my opponent to accept assasinate as max 12 vp…
Go for psychic interrogations if they can but keep my characters alive so they can score VP
Or attempt missions like raise banners or engage (or faction specific) where they need to compete with my army for mid table board control.

Spoiler:

battalion: Goff
Beastboss on squig, BBK, beasthide mantle
Weirdboy- warpath, dajump
Gretchin
Gretchin
Beastsnaggas
Beastsnaggas
Kommandos x10- bombsquig, pk
Kommandos x10- bombsquig, pk
Kommandos x10- bombsquig, pk
Squigriders x5- bombsquig
Squigriders x5- bombsquig
Squigriders x5- bombsquig
Killrig- frazzle, squigglycurse
Killrig- frazzle, spirit of gork
Wazbom- tellyporta blasta, specialist: boomboys
Wazbom- tellyporta blasta, kff

Interesting list. You actually give up 13 for Assassinate (+1 for warlord) and you give up 13 (+2 if they kill over 100 wounds) for no prisoners too.

I did the math on big choppas vs klaws.

You can basically get three big Choppa nobz for the same price as two dual Choppa nobz and a PK/killsaw nob.

Without the +1 strength, the PK/killsaw and dual choppas against MEQ are roughly equivalent in terms of raw wound output not counting allocation.

With the +1 strength, the three big choppas are significantly better.

So it's a matter of whether you use Goff or if you favor the hitting power during WAAAGH, I reckon.

Of course it's rather messy as the choppas deal a flurry of single damage attacks that I feel are actually inefficient when combined with 2 damage attacks against MEQs. The offhand choppas are unlikely to cause a single wound which would probably be wasted anyways.

Honestly I don't really think it matters as much as people seem to think it does.

tulun wrote:
Save those points in Big Choppas and take some with Klaw / Choppa, and the rest double choppa.

I bet those nobs perform better. (say, 2 Klaw / choppa, and 3 double choppa nobs)

That's the real problem. BC just aren't strong enough over a Choppa / choppa, and just taking a couple Klaws instead will overcome the hump they run into.

If you want a squad with PKs just take meganobz instead. There's only a 5 points of difference between a meganob and nob with powerklaw but the former is much better (+1W and +2sv) and can also buff his damage through the Hit Them Harder stratagem.

There's really no point in taking a unit of nobz with power klaws while big choppas in a meta that isn't dominated by marines might have a small niche. 5 nobz with big choppas are 50 points cheaper than 5 meganobz but only 5 points cheaper than 3 meganobz, which have -1W in total but a better save to compensate that. And 20 attacks with big choppas might have some different role compared to 12 power klaws attacks. But personally I woulnd't take nobz at all at the moment, I consider them among the most useless units in the codex.

Oh I totally agree. Don't take nobs at all.

I just think if you do I'd rather take all choppas, or mixed klaw / double choppa over big choppa.

Weapon blows. Needs AP2 and I think it would find its niche.

CaptainO wrote:

gungo wrote:
I’d like to try a list made for get the good bits, psychic interrogations and assasinate/bring it down..
That limits my opponents missions..
This list only gives out a
Max 10 for bring it down
Max 9 for abhor the witch
Max 12 for assassinate
Max 12 no prisoners if you kill everything…
And limit characters for completing Psychic interrogations.
This forces my opponent to accept assasinate as max 12 vp…
Go for psychic interrogations if they can but keep my characters alive so they can score VP
Or attempt missions like raise banners or engage (or faction specific) where they need to compete with my army for mid table board control.

Spoiler:

battalion: Goff
Beastboss on squig, BBK, beasthide mantle
Weirdboy- warpath, dajump- relic Scorch gitbones
Gretchin
Gretchin
Beastsnaggas
Beastsnaggas
Kommandos x10- bombsquig, pk
Kommandos x10- bombsquig, pk
Kommandos x10- bombsquig, pk
Squigriders x5- bombsquig
Squigriders x5- bombsquig
Squigriders x5- bombsquig
Killrig- frazzle, squigglycurse
Killrig- frazzle, spirit of gork
Wazbom- tellyporta blasta, specialist: boomboys
Wazbom- tellyporta blasta, kff

Interesting list. You actually give up 13 for Assassinate (+1 for warlord) and you give up 13 (+2 if they kill over 100 wounds) for no prisoners too.

You’re right still to get those 13 they need to table either characters or most infantry/cavalry… with gitbones and dajump you can play keep away if they take assassinate, make him the warlord to protect more vp…
I’m hoping psychic interrogations is able to generate at least 12 vp and 2cp. And I’m hoping Get the good bits maxs out and depending on my opponent I leave open the choice of bring it down, assassinate, or go for engage. Gives the list flexibility and limits your opponent.

gungo wrote:

CaptainO wrote:

gungo wrote:
I’d like to try a list made for get the good bits, psychic interrogations and assasinate/bring it down..
That limits my opponents missions..
This list only gives out a
Max 10 for bring it down
Max 9 for abhor the witch
Max 12 for assassinate
Max 12 no prisoners if you kill everything…
And limit characters for completing Psychic interrogations.
This forces my opponent to accept assasinate as max 12 vp…
Go for psychic interrogations if they can but keep my characters alive so they can score VP
Or attempt missions like raise banners or engage (or faction specific) where they need to compete with my army for mid table board control.

Spoiler:

battalion: Goff
Beastboss on squig, BBK, beasthide mantle
Weirdboy- warpath, dajump- relic Scorch gitbones
Gretchin
Gretchin
Beastsnaggas
Beastsnaggas
Kommandos x10- bombsquig, pk
Kommandos x10- bombsquig, pk
Kommandos x10- bombsquig, pk
Squigriders x5- bombsquig
Squigriders x5- bombsquig
Squigriders x5- bombsquig
Killrig- frazzle, squigglycurse
Killrig- frazzle, spirit of gork
Wazbom- tellyporta blasta, specialist: boomboys
Wazbom- tellyporta blasta, kff

Interesting list. You actually give up 13 for Assassinate (+1 for warlord) and you give up 13 (+2 if they kill over 100 wounds) for no prisoners too.

You’re right still to get those 13 they need to table either characters or most infantry/cavalry… with gitbones and dajump you can play keep away if they take assassinate, make him the warlord to protect more vp…
I’m hoping psychic interrogations is able to generate at least 12 vp and 2cp. And I’m hoping Get the good bits maxs out and depending on my opponent I leave open the choice of bring it down, assassinate, or go for engage. Gives the list flexibility and limits your opponent.

Be aware that you can no longer da jump characters only core (so you can da jump squigs and warbikers)

Dang it forgot no more keep away :p at least it helps for get good bits and engage and this list is full of core.

Can anyone confirm how Ghaz would work if he was a supreme command detachment for another clan. (so blood axes for example) does he get the goff exploding 6s and the blood axes get the cover outside x inches + fall back and shoot/charge or do I only get one? Can I give some of the octarius warlord traits to my other hqs or am I stuck with just the goff one and the generic?

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Every time i have ran Nobz i have never ran pure paid weapons. Its usually 6 bigchoppas 4 dualchoppas, because odds are 4 of them will die very quickly at minimum anyway.

Thats only 30 more points to upgrade to PKs which will kill marines. The only reason i used Bigchoppas before was because i simply didnt need it, but now bigchoppas are just pointless.

And of course, upping them to 2ap will be met with "You have a powa stabba for that" arguments....despite the fact that Powastabbas have literally never made sense for their cost.

tulun wrote:
Save those points in Big Choppas and take some with Klaw / Choppa, and the rest double choppa.

I bet those nobs perform better. (say, 2 Klaw / choppa, and 3 double choppa nobs)

That's the real problem. BC just aren't strong enough over a Choppa / choppa, and just taking a couple Klaws instead will overcome the hump they run into.

i agree thats a way of running them. And maybe i should do that. Mix in some double choppa nobz with big choppa ones. I think its worth trying.

But im not gonna run powerklaw Nobz for 25 points a piece, when i can just run mega nobz at 30 points a piece, with a 2+ better save, and +1 more wound.

CaptainO wrote:

 Scactha wrote:

CaptainO wrote:
I'm genuinely tempted by a grot herder for the additional 1" movement.

That´d be the day when we saw Runtherds back in play

In other notes. Anyone noticed the subtle wording on Da Biggest that the destroyed by attack clause doesn´t say melee? Meaning the WL can actually shoot stuff for points too.

You'll have to wipe that unit out so its only "usefull" if you've chipped all but 1 or 2 wounds left on a model. Ghaz has...ok shooting. Best of the warbosses.

Yup noticed. Just wanted to make a note of it as it can make sense when deciding order of shooting.

It makes a BigMek Tellyporta WL an interesting proposition too. With careful positioning he can hang back a tad, taking pot shots finishing stragglers and scratching heroes/monsters/vehicles in melee. Possible 4-5 VP/turn for that risk seems reasonable. In theory at least.

BigMek Tellyporta WL

Since you need a Warboss as Warlord for Waaagh, this idea is doa imho.

CaptainO wrote:
Can anyone confirm how Ghaz would work if he was a supreme command detachment for another clan. (so blood axes for example) does he get the goff exploding 6s and the blood axes get the cover outside x inches + fall back and shoot/charge or do I only get one? Can I give some of the octarius warlord traits to my other hqs or am I stuck with just the goff one and the generic?

Correct. If every model of a detachment are from the same clan, it becomes a Clan Detachment and gives access to Clan Kultur.
In your example, Ghaz would get the Goff exploding 6s, and models in the Blood Axe detachment get the BA cover.
Yes, the characters in the BA detachment can have BA warlord traits (through the strat BigBoss, because the strat specifies that the character is regarded as the warlord).
On the other hand, you cannot give them BA relics (because the warlord, Ghaz, is not from BA clan) , nor the Goff relic (because they are BA characters)

While unpacking my ladz just now, I realized I forgot one important player I brought - Mad Dok Grotznik.
Since he is a specialist git I could just drop him into my bloodaxe list and for just 15 points essentially upgraded the rather weak painboy to allow him to hit like a warboss. There are close to no stratagems that can affect a painboy in a meaningful way, so you really don't lose anything. His 5+ FNP frustrated the GSC player to no end, as his snipers failed to kill him turn after turn, just to see him stitch together himself again. A regular pain boy would have been dead T1.

His FNP helped my nobs a bit to tank terminator PF attacks and he saved some burnas. Combined with the pile of GSC bikes he killed (3+ PK hits despite their -1 to hit) he definitely made back his points, which a pain boy in his place couldn't have done.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

XC18 wrote:

CaptainO wrote:
Can anyone confirm how Ghaz would work if he was a supreme command detachment for another clan. (so blood axes for example) does he get the goff exploding 6s and the blood axes get the cover outside x inches + fall back and shoot/charge or do I only get one? Can I give some of the octarius warlord traits to my other hqs or am I stuck with just the goff one and the generic?

Correct. If every model of a detachment are from the same clan, it becomes a Clan Detachment and gives access to Clan Kultur.
In your example, Ghaz would get the Goff exploding 6s, and models in the Blood Axe detachment get the BA cover.
Yes, the characters in the BA detachment can have BA warlord traits (through the strat BigBoss, because the strat specifies that the character is regarded as the warlord).
On the other hand, you cannot give them BA relics (because the warlord, Ghaz, is not from BA clan) , nor the Goff relic (because they are BA characters)

Due to the wording in the supplement, you also need a Bloodaxe Warlord to access the WL traits there at all. If you run Thrakka, you only get the stratagems from the supplement and nothing else - which is a shame, because I have found extra kunnin' to be extremely valuable.
For the regular clan traits (including I've got a plan ladz!), you would be correct.