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CaptainO wrote:Interesting that Rich was able to run so many characters and still win.

I've found reasonable success by doubling down on characters. I run six characters, and enough vehicles to force the opponent to have to decide whether they want to focus on maxing Assassinate or Bring It Down. The other choice then gets to clean up while it gets relatively ignored.

Domandi wrote:Interesting list. Is Zagstruk worth it without a unit of stormboyz?

Definitely. As others have said he's a good missile unit for eating up exposed characters or an MSU unit on objective. I mostly use him alongside a Killa Klaw Bikerboss and together they hit really hard and can basically be wherever they want, especially on the first Waaagh turn.

Ya I'm running 8 characters. I'm going to be throwing ghaz (and makhari) and my beastboss forward anyway. 2 weirdboyz into the centre to buff give me an option for psychic secondaries.

I don't know many lists that don't give up 13 VP for assassinate.

Battlewagons are going to act as emergency getaway vehicles as my army gradually disintegrates..

How are people who don't play weirdboyz find picking a third secondary?

personally, im of the mind you might as well just feed into one secondary expecting it to be taken.
I dont think any army except maybe Custodes can get away with a list that doesnt easily max out a secondary somewhere.

CaptainO wrote:
Ya I'm running 8 characters. I'm going to be throwing ghaz (and makhari) and my beastboss forward anyway. 2 weirdboyz into the centre to buff give me an option for psychic secondaries.

I don't know many lists that don't give up 13 VP for assassinate.

Battlewagons are going to act as emergency getaway vehicles as my army gradually disintegrates..

How are people who don't play weirdboyz find picking a third secondary?

I typically go for with Engage and Good Bitz and then one of Assassinate/Bring It Down/Biggest and Best/Grind Them Down/Abhor the Witch.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
personally, im of the mind you might as well just feed into one secondary expecting it to be taken.
I dont think any army except maybe Custodes can get away with a list that doesnt easily max out a secondary somewhere.

Ya I think you're right. Embrace the suck. I did write this list which doesn't give up "as many" to assassinate 15 vrs 25.



It's built for engage/greentide and looks to maximise get the good bits while it allows me to take abhor if needed. I like the 3 deffdreads adding some additional cc punch but miss the psychic secondaries.

Have people played grey knights or tsons with and without psykers and how have they faired without.

Also have people found psychic secondaries are easily blocked by sisters/custodes anti psycher stuff

Played a 2k 2-games tourney today.

Took:
Ghaz, Makari, kff Megamek, Bikerboss
2x10 boyz, 2x10 grots
3x3 meganobz
3 killa kanz, Deffdread, Boomwagon (fw)
3 scrapjets, squigbuggy, 3 koptaz

1st game was a 20-0 victory vs tsons.
And 2d one was a minor 7-13 loss vs black templars.

However, I forgot to shoot my scrapjets, forgot about blasts and made a bunch of other mistakes in a 2d game. Oh, well. Need more practice.

Overall, ghaz was quite solid both for his waagh, makari fnp and also cp. He killed some stuff in mellee but was not enough to wreck bt blobs. And I failed a bunch of charges to back him up, sadly...

Makari is a must with ghaz. Not only did he grant 6+++ (that sadly didn't work too well) but also absorbed some damage with 2++ and, hilarioisly, killed some stuff with his mortal wounds in mellee.
Scrapjets - great as always.

Squigbuggy - I forgot about blasts, so, I rolled 3-4 shots for all the weapons all game long, yet it must have shot 18 times vs bt... Still, it's not amazing. Due to fnp the enemies have.

Kans are, for some reason, a fire magnet. I have no idea why. Maybe cause they're a squad and stuff like eradicators like shooting vehicle squads. They just died early on both games, absorbing some antitank.

Deff dread with free +3 movement is decent. I think on painting a 2d one. Just relatively cheap, choppy, and can actually reach something unlike kans. Maybe a 2d solo dread is gona be better than 3 kans.

Boyz and grots. I was hesitant about Boyz but for 8 ppm they're passable as rare source of obsec. They do force a couple of wounds here and there. Very easy to kill but... I thought they'd be worse. I think, I'm gona run more Boyz now. Just not go overboard with them. 2-3 squads and we're set. As for grots they were good for grt the God bits, that I was sceptical at first but than happened to like. Nice choice for this alone. Maybe, even for the green tide secondary...

Boom wagon was very underwhelming. It is relatively durable, with free 5++, but it just doesn't so little damage. I was expecting it to do more. Also, 3 VP for bring it down... Harsh! Maybe just take something else instead of it. Maybe even regular transport wagon.

Min walking meganobz. I was not expecting much but they actually were...decent! Goff meganobz were dealing some damage during WAAAAGH and even rerolled when close to ghaz. I guess, they're just ok when you don't overinvest. I used to take k-skorchas and trukks but they ended up too expensive. The cheap foot ones are actually not too bad! And I'm happy cause I have close to 20. So, some will see some play!

As for the secondaries, get the good bits was a good alternative to banners. They're both good but in some cases bits are better. Especially for tourneya where you might get clocked earlier.

Biggest and best is very situational but when the enemy is right, it's not too bad for Ghaz! I even shot his gun at a dread to get 2 extra VP

Killing more stuff in mellee is very risky... I shouldn't have taken it vs bt. Just underestimated the insane durability and hth damage that those deal when buffed up.

Green tide is a nice situational secondary, actually. For when the enemy can't kill your background grots like when there's a place to hide or not enough speedy/shooty units to hunt them down.

Overall I think I'd be able to win even vs bt if I:
Held back and didn't charge for the 1st turn
Didn't forget about blasts and just rolled those vs his blobs, halving them before engaging in mellee... Or at least rolled 1st turn
Not happy about fw wagon and kans. Got to think what's to take. Maybe also change squigbuggy. I've just never got them to work...

Oh, just wanted to add that, while discussing the fight with a bt opponent we figured out that not only have I forgotten some of my rules but also, he read some of his wrong and got more attacks than he should have, used grenades in mellee and resurrected grimaldus whereas he had to die. Also, used some better saves than he should have. We calculated what would have happened if he played by the rules, and it'd be exactly a draw 10-10. So, yeah, not a bad result even for such a game where I made a huge mistake and rushed in preamptively.

Overall, we're all n a good place with goff lists ATM.

Did you take the "free" nitro squigs for the buggy?

Did you manage to max out get the good bits?

Do you engage ever?

New Ork FAQ came in alongside an update to the points changes. Unfortunately, I think enough ruckus was raised that Kustom Jobs are back explicitly with points costs. It was nice while it lasted boyz.

On the sort of plus side, they removed the frankly out of nowhere nerf for Freebooterz so their klan trait isn't complete garbage.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/BGgBglAmbHKOYysD.pdf

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/sEQa5gnEMqHaE7yW.pdf

Where do you see them removing the nerf to freebootas? I cant see freebootas being mentioned at all

CaptainO wrote:
Did you take the "free" nitro squigs for the buggy?

Did you manage to max out get the good bits?

Do you engage ever?

I took a nitro squig but just happen to deal 0 damage with squigbuggy shooting the 3d game in a row. I guess, it's just my luck. It just happens to kill stuff in mellee rather than with shooting. I just wiff all the shots and than roll in and one-shot enemy characters left and right...

I maxed them out both games. I'd max out banners vs ts too. But good bits were really good vs bt where I could not engage mid board proerky and had 2 points close to dz.

I always engage. If you're talking about mellee. Tho scrapjets are as killly in mellee as they are in shooting. Especially, goff ones. If that,'s what you mean. It's just not wise to rush in all the time but I guess I was too tired to think for the 2d game. Was too hot and my head was aching all ready so, I just saw some Marines nearby and charged in. Should have had a turn of shooting beforehand. Also, happened to fail 4 out of 8 charges when I needed like 6". It happens too.

Beardedragon wrote:
Where do you see them removing the nerf to freebootas? I cant see freebootas being mentioned at all

That's the point - the updated nerf rules have been deleted, now there is no update to basic codex rules for freebootas.

 Insularum wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
Where do you see them removing the nerf to freebootas? I cant see freebootas being mentioned at all

That's the point - the updated nerf rules have been deleted, now there is no update to basic codex rules for freebootas.

Exactly. It was probably from some sort of earlier draft when Freebooterz speedwaaagh was too strong a year ago when there was no limit on buggies or aircraft units that somehow slipped in and they didn't notice for some reason.

Beardedragon wrote:
Where do you see them removing the nerf to freebootas? I cant see freebootas being mentioned at all

Exactly, they removed the change entirely. Now you play it as it is stated in the book.

 koooaei wrote:

CaptainO wrote:
Did you take the "free" nitro squigs for the buggy?

Did you manage to max out get the good bits?

Do you engage ever?

I took a nitro squig but just happen to deal 0 damage with squigbuggy shooting the 3d game in a row. I guess, it's just my luck. It just happens to kill stuff in mellee rather than with shooting. I just wiff all the shots and than roll in and one-shot enemy characters left and right...

I maxed them out both games. I'd max out banners vs ts too. But good bits were really good vs bt where I could not engage mid board proerky and had 2 points close to dz.

I always engage. If you're talking about mellee. Tho scrapjets are as killly in mellee as they are in shooting. Especially, goff ones. If that,'s what you mean. It's just not wise to rush in all the time but I guess I was too tired to think for the 2d game. Was too hot and my head was aching all ready so, I just saw some Marines nearby and charged in. Should have had a turn of shooting beforehand. Also, happened to fail 4 out of 8 charges when I needed like 6". It happens too.

Apologies by "do you engage" I meant take engage on all fronts as a secondary.

Squigbuggy died a death today as Kustom jobs started coating points.

This is good.

Shooty lists have now at least one clan option.

Freeboota Speedmob with strong planes and antiobswc-obsec bikerboss works fine.

Kustom jobs scattered over the whole army = big mess on the table what is what.

So I like this very much.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Anyway, I ´m happy I skip playing over the summer. This “new rules every two weeks” summer garbage - same as the last summer - is pretty stupid.

As an Ork player It's very difficult to resist engaging the opponent when you can. It's part of the reason I've built my army to score lots at the start. It means in a tournament the pressure is off with a timer and I can make speculative charges to to mess with my opponents game plan.

CaptainO wrote:

 koooaei wrote:

CaptainO wrote:
Did you take the "free" nitro squigs for the buggy?

Did you manage to max out get the good bits?

Do you engage ever?

I took a nitro squig but just happen to deal 0 damage with squigbuggy shooting the 3d game in a row. I guess, it's just my luck. It just happens to kill stuff in mellee rather than with shooting. I just wiff all the shots and than roll in and one-shot enemy characters left and right...

I maxed them out both games. I'd max out banners vs ts too. But good bits were really good vs bt where I could not engage mid board proerky and had 2 points close to dz.

I always engage. If you're talking about mellee. Tho scrapjets are as killly in mellee as they are in shooting. Especially, goff ones. If that,'s what you mean. It's just not wise to rush in all the time but I guess I was too tired to think for the 2d game. Was too hot and my head was aching all ready so, I just saw some Marines nearby and charged in. Should have had a turn of shooting beforehand. Also, happened to fail 4 out of 8 charges when I needed like 6". It happens too.

Apologies by "do you engage" I meant take engage on all fronts as a secondary.

Squigbuggy died a death today as Kustom jobs started coating points.

No, I've been focusing on good bits, being the biggest and the best (ghaz) and dealing a lot of wounds to an enemy or killing more stuff in mellee with orks (which was not very successful and I don't suggest taking it as it's too risky and swingy vs most enemies, but occasionally ok).

I'm just trying stuff and it seems that good bits is a nice alternative to banners, but they're both great with goff lists and bad with speed freak lists. Biggest and da best is fun with ghaz but is risky indeed. You won't be getting 15 pts with it running ghaz, so, probably not best for large tourneys where you got to go 100 all the time, but ok for your local games where you ain't aiming to crush the enemy at all costs to get that 100 every game.

As for engage on all fronts I tend to not take it because you don't always play 5 whole turns in your local tourneys and get clocked earlier. Especially in close fought games. So, you just don't get all the needed points. Also, I don't like being forced to be held down for my movement. It's especially annoying with only counting for when you're away from other quarters. And it's too handicapping after a turn or two, when you don't have enough units to just hang around shooting and not fighting what ever needs killing.

 Grimskul wrote:
New Ork FAQ came in alongside an update to the points changes. Unfortunately, I think enough ruckus was raised that Kustom Jobs are back explicitly with points costs. It was nice while it lasted boyz.

On the sort of plus side, they removed the frankly out of nowhere nerf for Freebooterz so their klan trait isn't complete garbage.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/BGgBglAmbHKOYysD.pdf

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/sEQa5gnEMqHaE7yW.pdf

Kustom jobs was expected but sad they didn’t adjust the costs at least… they were nice on a few units. hopefully they take note for the next codex and just make these a lot cheaper it allows them to push specific units without making them abusable and spammable.

Glad freebooter is okay again this helps speedmob the most imho.
I mean I’m just happy the devs even looked at the ork faq and mfm points… unfortunately they are fine with how everything works.

Domandi wrote:
Interesting list. Is Zagstruk worth it without a unit of stormboyz?

Zagstruk is one of the best units in the codex honestly. He is a warboss but doesn't have the warboss keyword so you can take him along with your warlord. I routinely load him into my Trukkboyz trukk since he takes up exactly 2 spots. Turn 1 he hops out before the trukk moves, does his full normal move, auto 6 advance and poof he is 3' from the enemies deployment zone! He is not epic in CC but he is damn good for his points, compare him to a similar priced dread and hes way better. And during a WAAAGH turn he has a 5++ and a 5+++ so he becomes fairly durable.


And the bad news, GW's new FAQ/whatever just returned prices to ork kustom jobs making them all useless again. Good Work GW.

I'd say a solo nitro squigs Squigbuggy is probably still worth it if you direct fire with it, and have the points and slot for it without giving up on something like a scrapjet.

It wouldn't be something I'd bend over backwards to fit into my list, but it has a little niche it fits into.

SemperMortis wrote:

And the bad news, GW's new FAQ/whatever just returned prices to ork kustom jobs making them all useless again. Good Work GW.

I'll still pay for one truck to have that 5+ invulnerable save. It was points well spent for my force before & since neither my force nor my opponents have changed I have no reason to think it won't be just as valuable now.
It was just free for a few weeks.

Ah thats great.

If you run ghaz in a supreme command and have a freebootas outrider next to it, the outrider remains freebootas while ghaz keeps his kulture as well, yes?

Going back to toying with running an old school freebootas list but with ghaz.

Also if I ran ghaz in the freebootas detatchment he simply loses his kulture im assuming while they keep theirs? How does that work when hes the warlord? Hes goff, they remain freebootas?

You can’t take clan relics ..or clan Strats except goff

gungo wrote:
You can’t take clan relics ..or clan Strats except goff

Sure. But the rest still works?

Orks are one of the few factions that dont lose rules with mixed clans between detachments so yes, Ghaz would have Goff rules and Freeboota detachment would have Freeboota rules.
It only breaks if you take non-exempted units in the Freeboota that arent Freeboota detachment specifically.

And of course that limits your relics/traits to Goff, and only Goff can equip them so nobody can use them except Ghaz himself (and Makari if you bring him, neither can use relics but do have traits). The non-clan specific stuff can still be used by the Freebootas though.

It’s also worth noting that ghaz can’t trigger freebooter
And ghaz reroll and makari fnp are goff only

People do take him in multi clan army lists specifically for his dual waaagh ability.

Yeah the dual-waaagh and he himself is a beatstick anyway so taking random ghaz isnt a bad plan.

Do we have access to advance and charge for vehicles? I always thought the bikerboss could aura this for buggies and dreads, but can't seem to find anything like it.

 Singleton Mosby wrote:
Do we have access to advance and charge for vehicles? I always thought the bikerboss could aura this for buggies and dreads, but can't seem to find anything like it.

Only character ones if you use Waaaagh.

Killrigs and wartrike only…

Just another reason why killrigs rock in goff pressure list.