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CaptainO wrote:
How many VP points have you guys been getting with the biggest and the best and ghaz on average?

I wouldn´t say it´s limited to Ghaz. I regularly use a MANZ WL with Cybork Relic and have him join the general scrum for the main line along side BWs, Rigs, Trukks, Boyz, Snaggas and Manz, etc. to protect him. I like him since he buffs CORE which is both MANZ and Snaggastuff.

Ghaz is annoying as he has such a big target painted all over him and then investing a whole secondary category into him is incentivizing the opponent killing him even more. It defeats the purpose.

CaptainO wrote:
How many VP points have you guys been getting with the biggest and the best and ghaz on average?

oh yikes. ive never run biggest and the best with Ghaz because he doesnt have look out sir.

Ive been running biggest and the best with a warboss in mega armor with ard as nails and krushing armor. That on the other hand, seems very good. It always nets you 10 points at least (but often 12 or 14 if someone comes near and wants to fight), and hes cheap enough that i want to leave him on an objective somewhere safe outside my deployment zone, with look out sir.

Ghaz on the other hand cant really be protected at all, so hes just a sitting duck.

 Scactha wrote:

CaptainO wrote:
How many VP points have you guys been getting with the biggest and the best and ghaz on average?

I wouldn´t say it´s limited to Ghaz. I regularly use a MANZ WL with Cybork Relic and have him join the general scrum for the main line along side BWs, Rigs, Trukks, Boyz, Snaggas and Manz, etc. to protect him. I like him since he buffs CORE which is both MANZ and Snaggastuff.

Ghaz is annoying as he has such a big target painted all over him and then investing a whole secondary category into him is incentivizing the opponent killing him even more. It defeats the purpose.

Ya ghaz isn't ideal for it but if I take him he's my warlord so I was wondering if people ever took biggest and the best and how many points they got.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I totally get that hiding a 300+50 point model in the back to score points isn't ideal but if the board had sufficient cover to block him from view he'd be safe and could pick up 10vp early with some combat and destruction.

biggest is just a bad secondary imo. megaboss isn't too terrible an investment to keep camped on a side obj with your good bit grots, but you could also just get 10-12 vp pretty passively from greentide then no prisoners/warp ritual for the third secondary.

I've run biggest and the best with ghaz. Even so, most enemies tried to focus my scrapjets and walkers first, so ghaz managed to live up to t3 most of the time. And get >=12 VP from this secondary.

I try to shoot at enemy vehicles when he's not advancing. Sometimes it works and he gets a sound through. Which is just 2 extra VP which ain't too bad.

 koooaei wrote:
I've run biggest and the best with ghaz. Even so, most enemies tried to focus my scrapjets and walkers first, so ghaz managed to live up to t3 most of the time. And get >=12 VP from this secondary.

I try to shoot at enemy vehicles when he's not advancing. Sometimes it works and he gets a sound through. Which is just 2 extra VP which ain't too bad.

Interesting. I was taking two weirdboyz for psychic secondaries but you give up abhor and easy points to tsons in exchange for a secondary several armies have hard counters to (sisters of silence, normal sisters, denies).

How do you normally get your 12 vps? 6 base for holding an objective for 3 turns bumping that up to 5 on two turns by killing something? Do you run ghaz into the centre or just hide him out of the way?

you could definitely run it depending on the match-up, but based on the data I think you will just have a better option more times than not.

I still think Ghaz is a good 50pts overcosted too. He's useful in lists where you really want both waaaghs but almost any other scenario I'd rather have a megaboss and extra killrig for same points.

Biggest and baddest is a back up when other easy ones aren’t available or your facing a list that can’t kill ghaz quickly because they don’t do reliable damage in multiple phases. Missions are limited to categories so

Bring it down>Assassinate>biggest and baddest

If low vehicles and low character count then biggest and baddest… you don’t really need to setup your list for it either since ghaz and makari are good in goff pressure already.

Good bits owns it’s own category

And it’s basically up to greentide or take no prisoners (vs something like necrons)

No orks in this CI this week. Not so many tournaments at all actually…

CaptainO wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
I've run biggest and the best with ghaz. Even so, most enemies tried to focus my scrapjets and walkers first, so ghaz managed to live up to t3 most of the time. And get >=12 VP from this secondary.

I try to shoot at enemy vehicles when he's not advancing. Sometimes it works and he gets a sound through. Which is just 2 extra VP which ain't too bad.

Interesting. I was taking two weirdboyz for psychic secondaries but you give up abhor and easy points to tsons in exchange for a secondary several armies have hard counters to (sisters of silence, normal sisters, denies).

How do you normally get your 12 vps? 6 base for holding an objective for 3 turns bumping that up to 5 on two turns by killing something? Do you run ghaz into the centre or just hide him out of the way?

Yes, 2 turns of killing stuff and 1 turn of scoring/shooting. I also try to fight around objectives to get that 2 VP. And yes, try to shoot monsters/vehicles with his fancy shoota when I get a chance and it's not taking away from something more important. You only need 1 to go through and you get that 2vp. It's not a given, ofc. If you calculate it, you've got around 60% to land an unsaved wound vs most vehicles/monsters with a 2+ or 3+ aok save within dakka range. Not too bad.

It's usually like this:
1st turn - scoring a point and occasionally getting to wound a tank, but rarely, as advancing is often more important.
That's 2-4 VP.
Than you just fight for a couple turns till you get killed. Often wreck a character, tank or a monster, possibly, close to a point.
That's another 2-5 per turn.

It's definitely not an ideal secondary but you don't get much to choose from if there are no good targets.

Shooting to Vehicles or Monsters do not score you VP for Da Biggest and Da Best

Been playing it wrong then. Oh well...

Well, if you kill it it does. Not just wounding.

Try to finish off near dead infantry units etc with guns instead. Bit less likely but not impossible

 Tomsug wrote:
No orks in this CI this week. Not so many tournaments at all actually…

Whats CI?

 Sazzlefrats wrote:

 Tomsug wrote:
No orks in this CI this week. Not so many tournaments at all actually…

Whats CI?

Competitive Innovations, a Goonhammer article that does a brief analysis of tournament lists over the previous week.

Goonhammer make a faction focus on orks with Ben Jurek Comments. So it' s pretty goode, except the “score Da biggest via shooting to vehicle” error….

https://www.goonhammer.com/nephilim-faction-focus-ben-jurek-talks-orks/

And yes, despite the happy start about a lot of options, all the suggested lists are pretty much the same story in different colors…

He says he uses a battlewagon to reach objectives with grots, outside the deployment zone.

But we already established that many of them have objectives that you need a runtherd next to (and ofc a transport), in order for the grots to reach. so that grots would get 5+3+1 rather than the usual 5+3 movement from exiting a transport.

I think the fact that we barely reach the edge, makes him think that he can actually just reach it, and have thus maybe cheated a bit by accident.

So 2nd best ork player according xyz and two fails in rules already? Cool…

Well, he might not be a seasoned ork veteran yet, but he is *a* competitive ork player who regularly manages to place well at big events.

It's also very important to keep in mind that playing well and talking about the game are two very distinct skills.

I'm just glad we're getting some sort of representation on the competitive scene without the usual witch hunt mob going off trying to lynch Ork armies for being "too competitive". We're in the sweet spot of being relevant enough to compete without stealing too much of the spotlight to get the nerfhammer due to the collective hate of the competitive community.

 Grimskul wrote:
I'm just glad we're getting some sort of representation on the competitive scene without the usual witch hunt mob going off trying to lynch Ork armies for being "too competitive". We're in the sweet spot of being relevant enough to compete without stealing too much of the spotlight to get the nerfhammer due to the collective hate of the competitive community.

To be honest, orks were causing major butthurt only when were sweeping the board with mani-cheema-style brainless spam lists with 9 scrapjets+9 squigbuggies. And it was ott, I agree.

 koooaei wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:
I'm just glad we're getting some sort of representation on the competitive scene without the usual witch hunt mob going off trying to lynch Ork armies for being "too competitive". We're in the sweet spot of being relevant enough to compete without stealing too much of the spotlight to get the nerfhammer due to the collective hate of the competitive community.

To be honest, orks were causing major butthurt only when were sweeping the board with mani-cheema-style brainless spam lists with 9 scrapjets+9 squigbuggies. And it was ott, I agree.

You must have missed all of the beast snagga release outcry. Mozrog was all over the competitive videos and blogs as the most broken thing ever and killrigs were nerfed solely because this outcry.

 Jidmah wrote:

 koooaei wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:
I'm just glad we're getting some sort of representation on the competitive scene without the usual witch hunt mob going off trying to lynch Ork armies for being "too competitive". We're in the sweet spot of being relevant enough to compete without stealing too much of the spotlight to get the nerfhammer due to the collective hate of the competitive community.

To be honest, orks were causing major butthurt only when were sweeping the board with mani-cheema-style brainless spam lists with 9 scrapjets+9 squigbuggies. And it was ott, I agree.

You must have missed all of the beast snagga release outcry. Mozrog was all over the competitive videos and blogs as the most broken thing ever and killrigs were nerfed solely because this outcry.

Mozrog is great in a vacuum. The clan itself is bad tho. Regular squigbosses are still way above average.
Well, the release was long ago, and the new stuff was indeed pretty good. Killers are still one of our best units, aren't they?

It's just the game that's in it's usual power-creep spiral. Right before the new edition.

A superheavy detatchment remains at 6CP yes? So if i wanted a a tripple killtank list, i would be absolutely fethed on CP?

Beardedragon wrote:
A superheavy detatchment remains at 6CP yes? So if i wanted a a tripple killtank list, i would be absolutely fethed on CP?

As far as I can tell, yes, unfortunately. So I definitely would not use it in a nephilim mission, you're better off playing Tempest of War if you want to do a proper armoured krumpany list so you still have some CP left over.

 Grimskul wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
A superheavy detatchment remains at 6CP yes? So if i wanted a a tripple killtank list, i would be absolutely fethed on CP?

As far as I can tell, yes, unfortunately. So I definitely would not use it in a nephilim mission, you're better off playing Tempest of War if you want to do a proper armoured krumpany list so you still have some CP left over.

well thats a damn shame. but thanks. Kind of stupid that they didnt think: Hey, maybe we should, like, not pay 6 points for a super heavy detatchment. It used to be half of ones CP going towards this detatchment, maybe it should remain half, so 3CP.

Alas... guess im in no hurry to find my third kill tank

I think they didn’t want you to have triple superheavy lists..

They did realize this and carved out special exceptions for knight armies to bypass this issue.

Beardedragon wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
A superheavy detatchment remains at 6CP yes? So if i wanted a a tripple killtank list, i would be absolutely fethed on CP?

As far as I can tell, yes, unfortunately. So I definitely would not use it in a nephilim mission, you're better off playing Tempest of War if you want to do a proper armoured krumpany list so you still have some CP left over.

well thats a damn shame. but thanks. Kind of stupid that they didnt think: Hey, maybe we should, like, not pay 6 points for a super heavy detatchment. It used to be half of ones CP going towards this detatchment, maybe it should remain half, so 3CP.

Alas... guess im in no hurry to find my third kill tank

Find your 3rd now & get it ready. This Nephlim gak won't last forever.
In a few months they'll throw something else at the wall & toss out another GT pack.
Will the CP still be halved? Who knows. But if they aren't, you'll be all set to go.....

Has anyone else seen the previewed Escher Cutters and resigned themselves to making a buttload more Deffkoptas?

All of the Necromunda vehicle releases are an Orky goldmine