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2022/08/22 02:15:18
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Alright Boyz, heading off to another GT and I want your input. Going to be playing Goffs, but going to be taking it back a bit, i'll be playing a tempo list rather than a pure Alphork strike list.
3x Nobz on Smasha Squig (No FO Slot)
Beastboss on Squig: Ard As nailz/BeastHide Mantle.
Going to be taking the ork secondaries pretty heavily, specifically Da biggest and da Best and Get da good bitz.
For Biggest and Best My Beastboss on Squig has -1 to wound, -1dmg and a 5+ FNP and 5+ Invuln. Hes also going to be operating with the Painboy to get him some heals when necessary. Since he isn't able to be targeted (Unlike Ghaz) he should last at least 3 turns which guarantees me 6pts, and realistically I don't plan on getting less than 8-10 from him a game.
For get the good bits...well 3 units of Grots. have them move up the field and just rotate in to score me 5VP. I should max out this secondary by the 3rd turn.
Beyond that, I have 3 Nobz on Smasha squig to provide some Mortal wounds, along with 6 Bomb squigs spread across 6 units including 3 kommando units which from experience I can tell you punch well above their weight class.
The Snaggas will be hitching a lift in the Kill Rig which will be turn 1 blitzing up the field with his +1 to move and +2 to advance Tyres which should give him a fairly safe charge 1st turn which can be guaranteed with Ramming speed. The Battlewagon is there to look intimidating, ferry grots to the frontlines and if necessary get stuck in with his Deff Rolla.
I have 3 kommando units, a unit of trukkboyz and the Killrig all capable of a 1st turn charge which I'm hoping will keep my opponent defensively deployed which gives me more time to score primaries/secondaries.
I'll also point out that the Killrig (if I go first and it gets a good advance)has the ability of a 1st turn frazzle attack, which under the right circumstances can be devastating. I played against a guard player who wasn't expecting this and I got a frazzle off against about 9 different units all clustered together.
Now with that said, the downsides to this list is it bleeds secondaries in the form of character kills. 3 nob on smasha, 3 HQs, a painboy and my killrig.
let me know what you guys think and what should be tweaked.
SemperMortis wrote: Alright Boyz, heading off to another GT and I want your input. Going to be playing Goffs, but going to be taking it back a bit, i'll be playing a tempo list rather than a pure Alphork strike list.
3x Nobz on Smasha Squig (No FO Slot)
Beastboss on Squig: Ard As nailz/BeastHide Mantle.
Going to be taking the ork secondaries pretty heavily, specifically Da biggest and da Best and Get da good bitz.
For Biggest and Best My Beastboss on Squig has -1 to wound, -1dmg and a 5+ FNP and 5+ Invuln. Hes also going to be operating with the Painboy to get him some heals when necessary. Since he isn't able to be targeted (Unlike Ghaz) he should last at least 3 turns which guarantees me 6pts, and realistically I don't plan on getting less than 8-10 from him a game.
For get the good bits...well 3 units of Grots. have them move up the field and just rotate in to score me 5VP. I should max out this secondary by the 3rd turn.
Beyond that, I have 3 Nobz on Smasha squig to provide some Mortal wounds, along with 6 Bomb squigs spread across 6 units including 3 kommando units which from experience I can tell you punch well above their weight class.
The Snaggas will be hitching a lift in the Kill Rig which will be turn 1 blitzing up the field with his +1 to move and +2 to advance Tyres which should give him a fairly safe charge 1st turn which can be guaranteed with Ramming speed. The Battlewagon is there to look intimidating, ferry grots to the frontlines and if necessary get stuck in with his Deff Rolla.
I have 3 kommando units, a unit of trukkboyz and the Killrig all capable of a 1st turn charge which I'm hoping will keep my opponent defensively deployed which gives me more time to score primaries/secondaries.
I'll also point out that the Killrig (if I go first and it gets a good advance)has the ability of a 1st turn frazzle attack, which under the right circumstances can be devastating. I played against a guard player who wasn't expecting this and I got a frazzle off against about 9 different units all clustered together.
Now with that said, the downsides to this list is it bleeds secondaries in the form of character kills. 3 nob on smasha, 3 HQs, a painboy and my killrig.
let me know what you guys think and what should be tweaked.
My main critique is that the Painboy is going to be limited in his use because he can't actually heal the Beastboss on Squigosaur (which is cavalry) since he can only heal Infantry or Biker units. Unlike the Painboss, he can't even heal the regular Squighog boyz either. So I would drop him for something else since he'll only be able to help out the Weirdboy, which I don't believe is worth the 70 point investment.
Maybe throw in the Fortress on Wheels kustom job onto Battlewagon and take another grot unit or KMK? Not sure what else you would be able to spend the points on.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/08/23 01:10:32
2022/08/22 06:54:59
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
koooaei wrote: I don't get how is snikrot any good? He seems pretty overcosted for what you get.
Am I seeing him wrong? Got a model anywayz. But it just lies unpainted for like 5 years straight.
Snikrot is okay. He's a relatively cheap pseudo-warboss that's something of a turn one threat, especially in a Kommando heavy list. His main drawback is that he needs to be in terrain to do actual damage and make his save decent.
Mostly he's a distraction Warboss that's going to chew through small ObSec units near or in the enemy lines, maybe splatting an exposed support character if he just needs to chip a few wounds off.
He's not nearly at the same level as Zagstruk or the other warbosses, but he's alright if you're short a Warboss option.
@Semper, I'll kind of parrot Grim here when I say to drop the painboy, he isn't really doing anything for the list.
If you drop a Smasha Squig as well, you'll save a handful of VP, and you can squeeze a unit of 8 tankbustas with 2 bomb squigs to ride about in the wagon. They will make the wagon a bit more of a worthwhile target compared to other more valuable units, and can still dish out some decent damage. It does mean that an extra unit of Grots has to walk though.
Or maybe add a few extra Squighogs? 2 units of 5 and a unit of 4?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/08/22 07:26:51
2022/08/22 07:27:10
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Grimskul wrote: My main critique is that the Painboy is going to be limited in his use because he can't actually heal the Beastboss on Squigosaur (which is a Monster) since he can only heal Infantry or Biker units.
Beastboss is cavalry, but same difference.
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2022/08/22 08:32:45
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
There was a minir “GT” somewhere W4 “GT” COULEEE CON 2022 and Joseph Brannen was 2nd with the speedmob.
15 player tournament is not so much relevant, but it was 5 games and Joseph make a short but relevant reports in his comments on FB, so I put it there, because it is pretty interesting
We saw such lists in CI couple of weeks ago too. And there was always the question - why ES and what secondaries? So I took this like an opportunity to look inside:
Joseph said:
“Secondaries - most of the time, Behind Enemy Lines, Assassinate/Bring it down, and Grind them Down. Deploy each plane in the corners of your deployment, put the koptas in the forward most ruin on your side then definitely have the scraps obscured behind a wall if you can help it.
Driven by Dakka - Move shoot move gets me four points on behind enemy lines or gets a buggy unit out of a bad situation fast.”
So he simply dakka the enemy down to the dust while sending unit after unit via Driven by Dakka to enemy deploy to score Behind Enemy Lines.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
SemperMortis wrote: Alright Boyz, heading off to another GT and I want your input. Going to be playing Goffs, but going to be taking it back a bit, i'll be playing a tempo list rather than a pure Alphork strike list.
Spoiler:
3x Nobz on Smasha Squig (No FO Slot)
Beastboss on Squig: Ard As nailz/BeastHide Mantle.
Going to be taking the ork secondaries pretty heavily, specifically Da biggest and da Best and Get da good bitz.
For Biggest and Best My Beastboss on Squig has -1 to wound, -1dmg and a 5+ FNP and 5+ Invuln. Hes also going to be operating with the Painboy to get him some heals when necessary. Since he isn't able to be targeted (Unlike Ghaz) he should last at least 3 turns which guarantees me 6pts, and realistically I don't plan on getting less than 8-10 from him a game.
For get the good bits...well 3 units of Grots. have them move up the field and just rotate in to score me 5VP. I should max out this secondary by the 3rd turn.
Beyond that, I have 3 Nobz on Smasha squig to provide some Mortal wounds, along with 6 Bomb squigs spread across 6 units including 3 kommando units which from experience I can tell you punch well above their weight class.
The Snaggas will be hitching a lift in the Kill Rig which will be turn 1 blitzing up the field with his +1 to move and +2 to advance Tyres which should give him a fairly safe charge 1st turn which can be guaranteed with Ramming speed. The Battlewagon is there to look intimidating, ferry grots to the frontlines and if necessary get stuck in with his Deff Rolla.
I have 3 kommando units, a unit of trukkboyz and the Killrig all capable of a 1st turn charge which I'm hoping will keep my opponent defensively deployed which gives me more time to score primaries/secondaries.
I'll also point out that the Killrig (if I go first and it gets a good advance)has the ability of a 1st turn frazzle attack, which under the right circumstances can be devastating. I played against a guard player who wasn't expecting this and I got a frazzle off against about 9 different units all clustered together.
Now with that said, the downsides to this list is it bleeds secondaries in the form of character kills. 3 nob on smasha, 3 HQs, a painboy and my killrig.
let me know what you guys think and what should be tweaked.
I think this kind of the list have to be bespoke made to fit individual playstyle, so I any comments are littel bit tricky..
- painboy was commented already
- I' m not in 5 model squad of riders. With Ld 6, this tends to be problem… + I 'm not in single Mek gun at all. This do mostly nothing and is a big lucklaster = what about to change 2 riders and KMK for another squad infantry? In such lust, it could be handy.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/08/22 08:51:20
koooaei wrote: I don't get how is snikrot any good? He seems pretty overcosted for what you get.
Am I seeing him wrong? Got a model anywayz. But it just lies unpainted for like 5 years straight.
Snikrot is okay. He's a relatively cheap pseudo-warboss that's something of a turn one threat, especially in a Kommando heavy list. His main drawback is that he needs to be in terrain to do actual damage and make his save decent.
Mostly he's a distraction Warboss that's going to chew through small ObSec units near or in the enemy lines, maybe splatting an exposed support character if he just needs to chip a few wounds off.
He's not nearly at the same level as Zagstruk or the other warbosses, but he's alright if you're short a Warboss option.
His strength is the force multiplier on Kommandos. If he supports a unit with a Distraction Grot it hits and wounds on 2+ vs <=T4 which sweeps away MEQ in my experience. Don´t forget the Breacher Ram.
After his initial support charge with Kommandos, Dead Sneaky is good to reposition him.
***
In other news I´m growing on Warbikers. They are Core meaning they move 20" during melee Waagh! making them great 1st turn chargers. The second good role is to screen the Biggest and Best Warlord T1 before the transports unloads the Boyz.
2022/08/22 10:33:58
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Warbikers are great, but not for charge. They just a bloody boyz. But they are perfect screen and objective takers.
My belowed tactics was to drive 3-4biker squads 1,1” in front of some non-fly melee monsters a block them. Especailly Black Templars and Dead Guard love it.
SemperMortis wrote: Alright Boyz, heading off to another GT and I want your input. Going to be playing Goffs, but going to be taking it back a bit, i'll be playing a tempo list rather than a pure Alphork strike list.
3x Nobz on Smasha Squig (No FO Slot)
Beastboss on Squig: Ard As nailz/BeastHide Mantle.
Going to be taking the ork secondaries pretty heavily, specifically Da biggest and da Best and Get da good bitz.
For Biggest and Best My Beastboss on Squig has -1 to wound, -1dmg and a 5+ FNP and 5+ Invuln. Hes also going to be operating with the Painboy to get him some heals when necessary. Since he isn't able to be targeted (Unlike Ghaz) he should last at least 3 turns which guarantees me 6pts, and realistically I don't plan on getting less than 8-10 from him a game.
For get the good bits...well 3 units of Grots. have them move up the field and just rotate in to score me 5VP. I should max out this secondary by the 3rd turn.
Beyond that, I have 3 Nobz on Smasha squig to provide some Mortal wounds, along with 6 Bomb squigs spread across 6 units including 3 kommando units which from experience I can tell you punch well above their weight class.
The Snaggas will be hitching a lift in the Kill Rig which will be turn 1 blitzing up the field with his +1 to move and +2 to advance Tyres which should give him a fairly safe charge 1st turn which can be guaranteed with Ramming speed. The Battlewagon is there to look intimidating, ferry grots to the frontlines and if necessary get stuck in with his Deff Rolla.
I have 3 kommando units, a unit of trukkboyz and the Killrig all capable of a 1st turn charge which I'm hoping will keep my opponent defensively deployed which gives me more time to score primaries/secondaries.
I'll also point out that the Killrig (if I go first and it gets a good advance)has the ability of a 1st turn frazzle attack, which under the right circumstances can be devastating. I played against a guard player who wasn't expecting this and I got a frazzle off against about 9 different units all clustered together.
Now with that said, the downsides to this list is it bleeds secondaries in the form of character kills. 3 nob on smasha, 3 HQs, a painboy and my killrig.
let me know what you guys think and what should be tweaked.
it reminds me a lot about my own list that im going to bring to a GT the 3rd and 4th of september.
I run a battalion and a patrol though.
Goffs Big mek with kustom force field Zagstruk Weirdboy, Fist of gork/Da Jump (because my GT still runs the 2" ruin rule) Beast boss on squig, warlord, ard as nails, beasthide mantle
2x10 beastsnagga boys 10 grots 2x10 orrible Gitz Grots
3x10Kommandos, with bomb squigs and powerklaws 3x4 Squig riders with bomb squigs 2x10 Stormboys
2x Kill Rigs, frazzle/squiggly curse, and Frazzle/Spirit of gork.
I run 10 grots for holding the backline and 20 for Good bits, Kommandos for counter charges, stormboys for flying behind enemy lines and harassing and hitting things, along side zagstruk that tries to snipe characters or vulnerable units. Although given my GT allows the 2" engagement range rule in ruins, i think both zagstrukk and my stormboys might end up in deepstrike for that easier to reach charge range. does it become 7 or 8 inches? i cant remember.
Good bits, Biggest and da best, and maybe psychic interrogation or greentide will be my game plan. I give up assassinate and prisoners though
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/08/22 13:34:54
Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.
- About Dawn of War 3
2022/08/22 14:02:31
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
SemperMortis wrote: Alright Boyz, heading off to another GT and I want your input. Going to be playing Goffs, but going to be taking it back a bit, i'll be playing a tempo list rather than a pure Alphork strike list.
3x Nobz on Smasha Squig (No FO Slot)
Beastboss on Squig: Ard As nailz/BeastHide Mantle.
Going to be taking the ork secondaries pretty heavily, specifically Da biggest and da Best and Get da good bitz.
For Biggest and Best My Beastboss on Squig has -1 to wound, -1dmg and a 5+ FNP and 5+ Invuln. Hes also going to be operating with the Painboy to get him some heals when necessary. Since he isn't able to be targeted (Unlike Ghaz) he should last at least 3 turns which guarantees me 6pts, and realistically I don't plan on getting less than 8-10 from him a game.
For get the good bits...well 3 units of Grots. have them move up the field and just rotate in to score me 5VP. I should max out this secondary by the 3rd turn.
Beyond that, I have 3 Nobz on Smasha squig to provide some Mortal wounds, along with 6 Bomb squigs spread across 6 units including 3 kommando units which from experience I can tell you punch well above their weight class.
The Snaggas will be hitching a lift in the Kill Rig which will be turn 1 blitzing up the field with his +1 to move and +2 to advance Tyres which should give him a fairly safe charge 1st turn which can be guaranteed with Ramming speed. The Battlewagon is there to look intimidating, ferry grots to the frontlines and if necessary get stuck in with his Deff Rolla.
I have 3 kommando units, a unit of trukkboyz and the Killrig all capable of a 1st turn charge which I'm hoping will keep my opponent defensively deployed which gives me more time to score primaries/secondaries.
I'll also point out that the Killrig (if I go first and it gets a good advance)has the ability of a 1st turn frazzle attack, which under the right circumstances can be devastating. I played against a guard player who wasn't expecting this and I got a frazzle off against about 9 different units all clustered together.
Now with that said, the downsides to this list is it bleeds secondaries in the form of character kills. 3 nob on smasha, 3 HQs, a painboy and my killrig.
let me know what you guys think and what should be tweaked.
I just ran the squig tire killrig yesterday in a game. It's a lot of fun, sadly didn't get my frazzle off though
I like the list overall. If it was me personally, I'd drop the painboy and a smasha nob and get some MANz to ride in your BW or maybe make the MANz your trukk boys so depending on your game you'd have the option to go more full alphork strike haha.
Burnas are another really solid option since they could clear chaff for your killrigs turn 1 charges. If you have some extra points I usually find their zzapkrumpa upgrade worth it if you can get warpath on them. Squad of 10 avg about 5.6 mortals. I'd probably use those 20 pts to put breacha rams on the kommandos first though.
Best of luck though mate, I'm sure you'll make us proud
Friendship is like peeing on yourself: everyone can see it, but only you get the warm feeling that it brings.
2022/08/22 20:28:18
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
I mean with hard counters like knights you just take bring it down especially with the currently popular Armiger spam lists… biggest and baddest I like to think of as a solid 10pt backup when bring it down or assassinate is not obviously easier.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/08/22 21:00:00
2022/08/23 00:16:47
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
First, good catch on the Painboy! I had originally brought a Warboss in Mega armor, but I think the Beastboss has a better survival chance than the Warboss with Da Krushin armor and hadn't even thought about the fact that painboyz can't heal cavalry because a Warbike is apparently more easily fixed by a doctor than an animal . I'll be bumping the Painboy along with the 2 extra Squig riders for ....something. In a regular battalion i'm maxed out on every slot except Elite and troop. I'm leaning towards a unit of 10 Zzapkrumpa Burna boyz as someone recommended, but I honestly can't think of anything else to bring. I'm not a huge fan of Meganobz even though I have about 12, they just die too easily, especially in a game where everyone is building -2 and -3AP into their lists to deal with AoC Marines. I have 120pts, lets see your best suggestions!
CaptainO wrote: @sempermortis I like the list but after playing something similar the following 2 points jumped out at me
1. Assuming max gtgbs by t3 only exists on half the maps without grot herders.
2.Against knights even if you don't take biggest and the best you won't have a lot that can take down a big knight in one turn.
Other than that I really like the list. I think grots are going to climb the target priority ladder as people get stung playing against gtgbs.
With GTGBS it says You score it at the end of your turn with grots, but you can easily get another unit doing the action on another objective with relative ease, especially in my list. So theoretically I can have my Kommandos do it turn 1 and my grots take over turns 2 and 3. Conversely I can score with the Trukkboyz or even my Squighog cavalry which is basically a turn 2 threat anyway. This list is littered with options on scoring secondaries and quickly tagging things.
As far as your 2nd point...yep. But Biggest and the best says I score additional points for WOUNDING a vehicle as well, which means I can score 4VP that turn by just using his Beastboss abilities to kick the knight in the nuts. As far as dealing with a Knight in and of itself. 6 Bomb squigs average 10dmg, 3 Smasha Nobz average 7.5dmg (just on the charge), a single unit of Kommandos in cover (waaagh turn) average 7.5dmg and the nob averages another couple dmg, so I have the tools to deal with knights, but it will take multiple units to do so.
Finally on that last note you left about grots. I agree, but I'll gladly have my opponents wasting time turn 1 shooting grots rather than my good units
Grimskul wrote: My main critique is that the Painboy is going to be limited in his use because he can't actually heal the Beastboss on Squigosaur (which is a Monster) since he can only heal Infantry or Biker units.
Beastboss is cavalry, but same difference.
Thanks for the correction! I think with all the big Monster keyword centerpiece models in 9th so far I've got it mixed up with our Beastboss because frankly he feels like more of a Monster character given the model size and his tankiness. The last game I had with him against Harlequins he basically tanked all his CC units at once and only took 5 wounds even though he popped 5 CP's worth of strats to mortal wound and auto wound the Beastboss down.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
SemperMortis wrote: First, good catch on the Painboy! I had originally brought a Warboss in Mega armor, but I think the Beastboss has a better survival chance than the Warboss with Da Krushin armor and hadn't even thought about the fact that painboyz can't heal cavalry because a Warbike is apparently more easily fixed by a doctor than an animal . I'll be bumping the Painboy along with the 2 extra Squig riders for ....something. In a regular battalion i'm maxed out on every slot except Elite and troop. I'm leaning towards a unit of 10 Zzapkrumpa Burna boyz as someone recommended, but I honestly can't think of anything else to bring. I'm not a huge fan of Meganobz even though I have about 12, they just die too easily, especially in a game where everyone is building -2 and -3AP into their lists to deal with AoC Marines. I have 120pts, lets see your best suggestions!
CaptainO wrote: @sempermortis I like the list but after playing something similar the following 2 points jumped out at me
1. Assuming max gtgbs by t3 only exists on half the maps without grot herders.
2.Against knights even if you don't take biggest and the best you won't have a lot that can take down a big knight in one turn.
Other than that I really like the list. I think grots are going to climb the target priority ladder as people get stung playing against gtgbs.
With GTGBS it says You score it at the end of your turn with grots, but you can easily get another unit doing the action on another objective with relative ease, especially in my list. So theoretically I can have my Kommandos do it turn 1 and my grots take over turns 2 and 3. Conversely I can score with the Trukkboyz or even my Squighog cavalry which is basically a turn 2 threat anyway. This list is littered with options on scoring secondaries and quickly tagging things.
As far as your 2nd point...yep. But Biggest and the best says I score additional points for WOUNDING a vehicle as well, which means I can score 4VP that turn by just using his Beastboss abilities to kick the knight in the nuts. As far as dealing with a Knight in and of itself. 6 Bomb squigs average 10dmg, 3 Smasha Nobz average 7.5dmg (just on the charge), a single unit of Kommandos in cover (waaagh turn) average 7.5dmg and the nob averages another couple dmg, so I have the tools to deal with knights, but it will take multiple units to do so.
Finally on that last note you left about grots. I agree, but I'll gladly have my opponents wasting time turn 1 shooting grots rather than my good units
I would go for burna boyz with zzapkrumpas. If you have the spare CP, putting them in strategic reserves isn't bad if the terrain setup isn't optimal for them, and being able to advance, shoot and charge during a WAAAGH! turn gives them a lot of flexibility on their usage on a respective unit cost. They've been a fantastic counter charge unit and I feel most opponent's underestimate them until they get a taste of the burny dance.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/08/23 01:23:07
2022/08/23 06:51:17
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Sazzlefrats wrote: How do we play Orks into Chaos Marines and Imperial Guard.
This whole armor of contempt and army wide AP-2 is a real bear.
Imperial Guard shouldn't be too much of an issue for you, even with their recent rules buffs given that their codex is in a terrible spot and they generally find it hard to contest central objectives due to lack of quality CC units (Bullgryn aren't very great and are slow, and are basically all they have if they don't run Death Korps Death Riders or gimmicky Catachan heavy Straken buffed infantry lists) and AoC only applies to their Leman Russes and Super Heavies. Make sure you have multiple fast units that can engage with his tanks as quickly as possible (i.e. Trukkboy Meganobz with Dual Killsaws or Stormboyz advancing 18" during WAAAGH!) and other units that can ideally blow through his infantry screens. Goff pressure lists are good against guard since you if you can pin in him inside his deployment zone, even if he manages to clear you out, by the time that happens you'll have squatted on the center objectives and other secondaries long enough that you should ideally outscore him so he can't catch up with his 1 or 2 turns remaining.
Chaos Marines, I feel like we don't treat that much differently than regular marines. Depending on the type of list you're making, you bring stuff like bomb squigs via Kommandos, Tankbustas or Squighog boyz to get around AoC. KMK are decent, since they're AP-3 base and if you're taking Ghazzy, you can get it up to AP-4 and 5+ invulns across your army with advance and charge to get some good hits in. I've also seen Wazbom blastajets even outside of Speedmob lists because they have enough AP and damage.
Otherwise, build your list on fulfilling secondaries like Get Da Good Bitz, Green Tide or Biggest and the Baddest.
2022/08/23 21:50:05
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Sazzlefrats wrote: How do we play Orks into Chaos Marines and Imperial Guard.
This whole armor of contempt and army wide AP-2 is a real bear.
My mechanized Grot force shoots them. ALOT. With a whole bunch of high str/AP weapons.
My only real CC is often limited to a single Warboss in mega armor. Makari, the Red Gobbo on squig, & maybe a few Runtherds do what they can as needed. Most of my CC kills to date have come from using ramming speed on a truck. Sometimes a Grot tank. Now & then on a Gun.
Meanwhile I try & out score them.
2022/08/23 22:16:52
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
I have yet to lose a single game to IG this entire edition. They are still in a horrendous spot because the fact remains that their codex just isn't good for 9th.
As far as CSM....I have no clue yet, I have literally not run into a Chaos player since their new stuff came out. I'm kind of looking forward to playing a few games against them this weekend or possibly next.
As far as my previous comment, is the general consensus here to field a mob of 10 Burna Boyz? (well, 8 with 2 Spanners). If that is the case i'm thinking about just leaving them in the BW turn 1 so they can rush up the field safely and then turn 2 be able to contest objectives or even just stay in the wagon and become a mobile flame template, should after 28(ish) S4 hits and 6-10 shots from big shootas (I'm not upgrading to KMBs)
Going to be interesting/hard having to force myself to play *Gasp* Conservatively and not bum rush straight into my enemies while screaming WAAAAAAGH! as loudly as I can. Fact remains that the Beastboss on Squiggy is pretty much guaranteed 8-10pts a game, and if I can hold a center objective to score GTGB I easily cap off another 9-12 while also scoring at least minimum from primaries.
The real trick is going to be playing aggressively with some units to tie up my opponent in his own zone while also keeping enough back to score objectives/secondaries all game long.
“
Sample List(s) / both list was there in my CI report….
Michael Mann – 4th Place – Denver Fight Club 40k Major - Goff Pressure
Robert Hawkins – 3rd Place – Grand Onslaught 4 - Blood Axe Infantry Spam
Why are they Tier 2?
Thanks to the boosts to Waaaagh! and some pretty decent Secondaries, Ork lists built around lots of bodies can apply some serious pressure, and pressure wins games. Goffs have been the dominant force just due to their sheer killiness, but recently some players are experimenting relatively successfully with Blood Axes as well, with the extra Stratagems for Kommandos helping make them very tough to shift.
Do They Need Changes?
Probably not. The problem that Orks currently have is that they’re particularly weak into the top three factions, which can just outclass them on the kind of game they want to play. Taking them down a bit should do more to help Orks than it does for most armies. It would be nice to see a bit more list diversity, and something to help out the Speedwaaagh certainly wouldn’t go amiss. Their biggest problem is that they struggle to rack up Secondaries, and also run out of detachment slots without burning a tonne of CP, so maybe let BIKER CORE units perform Get Da Good Bits in that list, and also let them take nine Fast Attack slots rather than six in an Outrider.“
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2022/08/24 15:20:35
I'd say tier two is a fair assessment, although I disagree that we struggle with secondaries. I'd definitely say we sometimes struggle to Max secondaries, but generally we do pretty well as far as they're concerned.
I completely agree that list diversity will die once Speed Mob goes away. It's already on the way out, and that will be the nail in the coffin before we end up as a 90% of every list is identical kind of faction.
2022/08/24 21:59:13
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
I agree with the assessment that waaagh vs speedwaaagh has flip-flopped, and speedwaaagh feels a bit so-so right now.
I'm curious what would be good options to bring it up a bit? I'd hate for it to just continue to pump more AP or shots, or step on the toes of Speed Mob. It'd also be neat to have it actually do something related to the "speed" in the name of the ability. So some sort of movement bonus, maybe? Vehicle and Biker units gain 2" movement for a turn? +1" to charge rolls?
2022/08/24 22:41:04
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Speedwaagh only feels so-so because of armor of contempt.
Vast majority of our guns are AP0, or low rate of fire. So most of Speedwaagh literally does nothing.
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
2022/08/25 03:00:24
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Vineheart01 wrote: Speedwaagh only feels so-so because of armor of contempt.
Vast majority of our guns are AP0, or low rate of fire. So most of Speedwaagh literally does nothing.
It doesn't help that the part of advancing and shooting with assault weapons with no penalty is more or less a waste of ink given that so many of our weapons are now heavy or dakka unlike before. (it also steps on Evil Sunz shoes which is kinda redundant). Like you said, it's just there for the AP, since I feel like the extra dakka shot per gun doesn't make that big of a difference.
I would also say that most SpeedWAAAGH! lists come across the issue of negatives to hit against shooting being so prolific, either through terrain, strats, wargear or just faction rules, and hitting on 6's makes it very difficult to push through what little firepower we can actually get to hit on opponents. Freebooterz used to be one of the way around this, but I feel combined with AoC and the way the meta has shifted, even they're not enough. Now that regular WAAAGH! has a good mix of offense and defense, SpeedWAAAGH!'s main thing should be more reliability when it comes to shooting. Having all vehicles, bikerz and units inside transports always hit on unmodded 5's and 6's during the entirety of a SpeedWAAAGH! would be a good way of adding something that isn't a flat offensive boost next to AP, and even give some incentive to take stuff like tankbustas or flash gitz in a speedwaaagh without them feeling like they're less mobile than everything else.
2022/08/25 05:13:34
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Afrodactyl wrote: I'd say tier two is a fair assessment, although I disagree that we struggle with secondaries. I'd definitely say we sometimes struggle to Max secondaries, but generally we do pretty well as far as they're concerned.
I completely agree that list diversity will die once Speed Mob goes away. It's already on the way out, and that will be the nail in the coffin before we end up as a 90% of every list is identical kind of faction.
The point was that SPEEDWAAGH /SpeedMob suffers with secondaries and that is true. Not the Orks as an army. Speed Mob fades away because it' s hard to make it score.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Madjob wrote: I agree with the assessment that waaagh vs speedwaaagh has flip-flopped, and speedwaaagh feels a bit so-so right now.
I'm curious what would be good options to bring it up a bit? I'd hate for it to just continue to pump more AP or shots, or step on the toes of Speed Mob. It'd also be neat to have it actually do something related to the "speed" in the name of the ability. So some sort of movement bonus, maybe? Vehicle and Biker units gain 2" movement for a turn? +1" to charge rolls?
It' s not about the dakka. Speedwaagh can do a very nice dakka. Look at the speedwaagh lists that scores - all works around pure killing and moving - Behind, Assasinate/Bring it down, Grind them down, Abhorn.
But it is super hard to make it scoring and working. That is what is needed:
- more FA slots for free
- some suitable secondaries or / and
- make SM warbikers passing Bitz like grots
- fix Nob bikers to be CORE, Big Red Button, Cloud of Smoke
- fix Kannonwagon to be WAGON
give me such nob bikers and 12 slots and even with actual secondaries, it would be a ride!
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2022/08/25 12:58:39
I'd like to clarify that I'm specifically talking about Speedwaaagh the army mechanic and not Speed Mob the army of renown. To a certain point they're synonymous, but I don't think GW has addressed any War Zone content in terms of adjusting army balance yet, so an expectation of that is unrealistic in my opinion.
10k p fullpaint orks ready to krump! …
. I'll be bumping the Painboy along with the 2 extra Squig riders for ....something. In a regular battalion i'm maxed out on every slot except Elite and troop. I'm leaning towards a unit of 10 Zzapkrumpa Burna boyz as someone recommended, but I honestly can't think of anything else to bring. I'm not a huge fan of Meganobz even though I have about 12, they just die too easily, especially in a game where everyone is building -2 and -3AP into their lists to deal with AoC Marines. I have 120pts, lets see your best suggestions!
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang. 
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 