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2022/10/26 14:06:23
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
gungo wrote: To be fair and no knock on Ben he somehow skirted through socal without facing a single tyranid, harlequin or necron army. And the dataslate nerfs wasn’t even in effect.
He faced off against several chaos armies, a demon army, a knights army and a tau army….
It does kinda prove Tyranids were a strong anti ork roadblock. The dataslate will definitely help but Tyranids will still be strong.
That is a very good point. Ben is notoriously known good player. His list is nothing new. Such lists were there already one year ago. And on every tournament, it' s a lottery with the opponents.
Ok, new competitive Innovations are out. And I take this opportunity to make a short summary:
What we see is the more stabilized meta than before. Even if we have about 49% win rate, in good hands, with fine matchups and with the help of Gork and Mork, we can score high on major tournaments. Not only Ben Jurek last week, but generali this is the story of last 6 months.
New dataslate is out and there are no idrect changes for orks. So we have another 4 months until the new Mission Pack to play with our lists we have now.
The only aspect that is important for us is, that Octarius SPEED MOB + BLOODAXE KOMMANDOS expansions are market as “valid at least until Jan 23 or until new codex”. Nobody knows what happen in Feb 23.
… my guess is that GW says they are fine until new codex in April, so there will be 2 month pf confusion in between
Orks now play basicly 2 types of army and each of them in variations.
1. GOFF preasure list. Sometimes it is not goffs, sometimes it is not so much preassure, but generali a combination of CC units that push where it' s necessary.
Well known is what Ben Jurek had - ghazzy, two killrigs, meganobz etc. But that is not the only one. Sean Neyden was 11th on SOCAL with one loss (hich is bloody good!) without any killrigs and with a bunch of HQs. If you check my reports here, you will see also a combinations with buggies, wazbooms, deffdreads, hell even Mega Dreads!
This is definitely the n1 build now.
2. Speed Mob - basicly two options.
Either one detach with big squads of buggies and Speedking Wartrike. Gameplan is move and shoot and keep Wartrike alive. Killing secondaries + Da Biggest. Freebootas or Evil Sunz.
Or you take two detach evil sunz with 3 warbikers and 3 nob bikers and play more about board control and Bitz and roadblocks.
There was few deviations from this scheme - like the list with the Kustom Stompa few months ago. But generali, there is pretty low variety in concepts.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/10/28 06:58:56
And https://youtu.be/tZw6xRGNMDU - Auspex Tactics made his own overview of orks. I havent hear it yet, so I hope there are no nonsences
Ben Jurek 1st on SOCAL. List was already there, I putthere once again for order. What is important is that there is a long interview with Ben in Goonhammer CI linked above, so who is interested, check it!
Battle Size [6CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points) [6CP]
Clan Kultur: Goffs
Detachment Command Cost [-3CP]
Gametype: 4. Chapter Approved: War Zone Nephilim
+ HQ [10 PL, 185pts, -2CP] +
Warboss on Warbike [6 PL, 115pts, -2CP]: 4. Brutal but Kunnin, Da Killa Klaw, 2x Dakkagun, Power Klaw, Stratagem: Big Boss [-1CP], Stratagem: Extra Gubbinz [-1CP]
Weirdboy [4 PL, 70pts]: 3. Da Jump, 4. Fists of Gork, Weirdboy Staff
Will Paul 2nd on Montreal Mayor - one detachement speedmob. Just to mention - “Montreal Mayor” is 31 players and Will Paul place well also on other tournaments in the area with different armies (Nids)
Spoiler:
Army name: Ork attempt
Factions used: Orks
Army of Renown: Speed Freeks Speed Mob
Command Points: 6-1=5
Total cost: 2000 pts, 105 PL Reinforcement Points: none pts
Number of Units: 10
Assassination: 4 points
Bring it Down: 15 points
No Prisoners: 2 points
Abhor the Witch: 0 points
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Im not sure how much of a fan i am of "Da Jump" given the change to "Ere we go" from 8th to 9th.
I absolutely loved da jump in 8th because we could reroll a single die rather than both. But now when you are 9 inches away, if you fail it, you are just absolutely dead. Sure you were dead before as well, but it was much harder to fail.
It feels really risky to do da jump, and the unit is absolutely blended if its failed.
Also im watching the stream with Ben Jurek, and it seems like he declares a charge turn 1 with squig riders, then gets hit by a -2 modifier to the charge by his opponent, and THEN he says he will use tide of muscle. Im pretty confident you are not allowed to do that. Tide of muscle isnt a counteractive stratagem you can use after the opponent has declared his own intentions of stratagem usage. You declare tide of muscle when you declare the charge. Same with Ramming speed.
At least i believe thats how it works.
Still though, a shout out to Ben for winning against Tau. But if he hadnt gone first turn, he would have been crushed i think. Tau is such a nasty army to play against as Orks.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2022/10/28 15:58:08
Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.
- About Dawn of War 3
2022/10/28 16:28:44
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Also im watching the stream with Ben Jurek, and it seems like he declares a charge turn 1 with squig riders, then gets hit by a -2 modifier to the charge by his opponent, and THEN he says he will use tide of muscle. Im pretty confident you are not allowed to do that. Tide of muscle isnt a counteractive stratagem you can use after the opponent has declared his own intentions of stratagem usage. You declare tide of muscle when you declare the charge. Same with Ramming speed.
At least i believe thats how it works.
Still though, a shout out to Ben for winning against Tau. But if he hadnt gone first turn, he would have been crushed i think. Tau is such a nasty army to play against as Orks.
It would depend more on the strat being used by your opponent. Some are actually keyed on the beginning of the phase rather than when units are selected (wireweave grenades for instance), which means if Ben had already declared a unit to be charging then the opponent is the one at fault.
2022/10/28 20:21:14
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Ah yes that could be correct. If the Tau stratagem would be used at the start of the charging phase, rather than when a unit is the target of a charge, he would be excused.
In that case the Tau player made a mistake. If that is the case that is. I dont know when the Tau player has to use the stratagem.
Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.
- About Dawn of War 3
2022/10/28 20:41:32
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Will Paul's list is interesting in some its choices. Namely a fully squad of squigbuggies and a bonebreaka (!) with.a kannon (!!). I would never have considered any of them as competitive choices, perhaps a single squigbuggy with the +1 to wound kustom job but not a full squad, and especially not the wagon. Nevertheless it is very nice to see them in a top placed list.
It is a shame that the kannonWAGON cannot be included in the Speed Freek AoR due to its lack of WAGON keyword, in my opinion that would be the best option for a freebooterz oriented army.
2022/10/30 09:30:29
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Aqaue3 wrote: Will Paul's list is interesting in some its choices. Namely a fully squad of squigbuggies and a bonebreaka (!) with.a kannon (!!). I would never have considered any of them as competitive choices, perhaps a single squigbuggy with the +1 to wound kustom job but not a full squad, and especially not the wagon. Nevertheless it is very nice to see them in a top placed list.
It is a shame that the kannonWAGON cannot be included in the Speed Freek AoR due to its lack of WAGON keyword, in my opinion that would be the best option for a freebooterz oriented army.
Absolutely agree with the Kannonwagon!!!
3 x RSB - If you go one detachement Speed Mob, you need a unit holding home objective. But you have just 6 FA slots and 2000p to use. Have a full RSB squad is the only option to have something at home objective that actually do at least something and use the points.
Gunwagon is pretty interesting idea. Speed Mob used to be strictly two detachement with 3 smaller or bigger squads of warbikers to SCORE and do ROADBLOCKS and LOCK IN CC. And 3 squads of such unit was almost not enough. If you go single detach, you have no space for 3 squads. Just 2 or less.
And W16 T8 M12” Gunwagon is actually prettygood as a roadblock and CC locker. Cannot do the bits but can fight much better than bikers (about 11x 2+ 9/-2/2 attacks is bloody good) and is a great distraction carnifex.
What I do different is
- 6 -> 5 kopta squad (blast, morale, hard to hide)
- Bonebreaker with Zzapgun - not a blast so can fire in CC. Pretty useless, but Kannon too and for 5p? Who cares… And gun that can do 3+D3MW damage and benefit from FB +1 to hit is a lottery than can surprise..
- Bonebreaker with Forktress for 5++. That extend the effect of him significantly!
- spare points to Big Shootas on Bonebreaker. Extend the carnifex effect and still shoot in CC
Generaly, I think that go Freebootas is possible just in single detach - you need CPs to hide Koptas.
If you want to go 2 detach, you need to go Evil Sunz for 1CP move twice for hiding of the Koptas and other nasty tricks like this.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/10/30 09:37:53
If you check my reports here, you will see also a combinations with buggies, wazbooms, deffdreads, hell even Mega Dreads!
Where do I find your reports? Specifically the one with a MegaDred? I could totally be missing it if you posted it in this thread :|
I've been running a Mega Dread lately, but I've certainly not been popping up in tournament results! I'm pretty sure I did see one in the last few pages, I'll have a rummage and see if I can find it.
2022/11/03 12:33:33
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Sean Nayden 8th (between John Lennon and Mani Cheema) US Open Kansas City: Warhammer 40,000 Grand Tournament - goffs without rigz and with wagons, ghazzy and bunch of HQs
Battle Size [6CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)
Clan Kultur: Goffs
Detachment Command Cost [-3CP]
Gametype: 4. Chapter Approved: War Zone Nephilim
+ HQ +
Boss Zagstruk [6 PL, 110pts]
Warboss [5 PL, 105pts, -2CP]: 4. Brutal but Kunnin, Attack Squig, Da Killa Klaw, Kombi-skorcha, Power Klaw, Stratagem: Big Boss, Stratagem: Extra Gubbinz
Weirdboy [4 PL, 70pts]: 3. Da Jump, 4. Fists of Gork
They've been doing a lot of cool Ork model singles recently, which is nice! Not sure if its worth the price tag they usually throw on them, but it's good to see some flavorful models thrown our way.
Guitar Herork! I'm just imagining him playing through the Fire and the Flames from Dragonforce now haha.
2022/11/04 23:58:35
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Sadly as a limited release it’s just a display model only… but would have been cooler if this guy was an upgrade option on a Killrig/huntarig instead of wurrboy.. mad max style!!
2022/11/05 06:39:11
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
gungo wrote: Sadly as a limited release it’s just a display model only… but would have been cooler if this guy was an upgrade option on a Killrig/huntarig instead of wurrboy.. mad max style!!
i mean.. nothing stops you from doing that
Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.
- About Dawn of War 3
2022/11/05 14:44:57
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
gungo wrote: Sadly as a limited release it’s just a display model only… but would have been cooler if this guy was an upgrade option on a Killrig/huntarig instead of wurrboy.. mad max style!!
i mean.. nothing stops you from doing that
I mean you can use any model but was hoping for some thematic power rifts instead of wurrboy powers heavily based on beastsnaggas..
A nice mind melting heavy metal rift aoe ork pyschic based atk,
A power ballad defensive buffing aura for orks
A speed boosting offensive buffing aura for orks
And a debuff Aoe
gungo wrote: Sadly as a limited release it’s just a display model only…
Only for those of you who refuse to use Legends units.
I mean a year ago there was a straight to legends thematic goff rocker unit dataslate and no one uses that junk… the rules were actually fun and decent too but I’m sorry legends is the place rules go to die…
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/11/05 14:48:00
2022/11/06 07:42:30
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
I mean it partly depends on how big of a squad you are taking. Generally, I would say the Power Klaw is almost always an auto include unless you're really short on points since you have a 5 point discount and you can take it regardless of squad size. Breacha Ram and Bomb Squigs are only possible to be taken by 10+ man Kommando units if I remember correctly, so it's a bigger investment. I think personally Bomb Squigs are the only ones worth always getting for 10 man squads, just because of it's ability to plink off wounds and soften units up before getting stuck in. I feel like the Breacha Ram is a bit situational and AoC makes it less impactful than it should be.
2022/11/06 20:11:06
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
I mean it partly depends on how big of a squad you are taking. Generally, I would say the Power Klaw is almost always an auto include unless you're really short on points since you have a 5 point discount and you can take it regardless of squad size. Breacha Ram and Bomb Squigs are only possible to be taken by 10+ man Kommando units if I remember correctly, so it's a bigger investment. I think personally Bomb Squigs are the only ones worth always getting for 10 man squads, just because of it's ability to plink off wounds and soften units up before getting stuck in. I feel like the Breacha Ram is a bit situational and AoC makes it less impactful than it should be.
Thanks.
2022/11/07 09:58:26
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
I would say a Breacha Ram is definitely worthwhile if you have a handful of points spare. Otherwise, I'd say the Klaw is an auto take, and the bomb squig is a definite if you're going for a 10 man mob.
2022/11/07 15:16:29
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
I have found myself using Burnas every now and then if i have the spare points and already have a bomb, because that way i can actually advance and throw my bomb squig.
Right now its either: Will i walk and throw a bomb, risking a longer charge, or will i advance and charge to make charging less risky, but not throw any bombs.
With burnas, you can do both.
Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.
- About Dawn of War 3
2022/11/09 17:08:01
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
gungo wrote:Sadly as a limited release it’s just a display model only… but would have been cooler if this guy was an upgrade option on a Killrig/huntarig instead of wurrboy.. mad max style!!
It would be cool if he granted a second round of shooting (at -1 granted and that was before Andy Chambers ruined orks) like the Goff Rokkers originally did for a retinue.
2022/11/11 11:53:15
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Im a little unsure if this is a dumb question or not, but recently i started thinking, if ive been playing "Biggest and da best" the correct way.
When you have to get 2 points for having your warlord on an objective outside your deployment zone, do you have to stand there by the end of the battle round? Or is the point merely scored at the end of the battle round, and you could have been holding the objective at any given point during that battle round?
Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.
- About Dawn of War 3
2022/11/11 13:42:26
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
do you have to stand there by the end of the battle round?
Da Biggest and Da Best scores at the end of the round, checking to see if:
if your warlord did wounds to a character monster vehicle in melee
5 or more models killed
unit destroyed
warlord is within range of an objective marker you control not in your deployment zone
so yes, at the end of the round you must control the objective marker your WL is standing on.
2022/11/11 14:42:53
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Yea im glad i asked then. I have been using it wrong then. I used to just sit on the objective at the end of my own turn and then checked the +2 by the end of the battle round.
That makes it considerably harder to get +2 points for, as an enemy has the opportunity to reach the point with obsec units, if you didnt get turn 2.
well its good to know for the upcoming GT i have next week.
Thanks guys.
Anyway my GT list below. Hopefully it will go well. its a team tournament.
10k p fullpaint orks ready to krump! …
