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I like what i've seen so far; big questions for me are all about squad sizes, wargear options and whether i'll be able to make an old school retinue.

@jidmah are you sure we are getting +1'' move? I know beastnaggas have it, but Gaz is still M5'', boyz might be too?

Haven't mega armours often been slower than without?

 PaddyMick wrote:
I like what i've seen so far; big questions for me are all about squad sizes, wargear options and whether i'll be able to make an old school retinue.

@jidmah are you sure we are getting +1'' move? I know beastnaggas have it, but Gaz is still M5'', boyz might be too?

I assume that Thrakka, like Abaddon, has been changed to fit in with the units he is going to join. MA, like all TEQ, are usually 1" slower than their less armored counterparts.

 PaddyMick wrote:
I like what i've seen so far; big questions for me are all about squad sizes, wargear options and whether i'll be able to make an old school retinue.

@jidmah are you sure we are getting +1'' move? I know beastnaggas have it, but Gaz is still M5'', boyz might be too?

Snagga Boys are M6 according to the FF, and so was the weirdboy if I remember rightly.

Ghaz being M5 tracks with the theory that Mega Armour units will be 1" slower.

I 100% agree that Ghaz is probably about as killy as before, and probably breaks even as far as movement is concerned. His short term durability is reduced as he's no longer got the wound cap, but long term he has the 2++ and you'll have to chew through a load of MANz and Makari before he gets touched.

Shooting looks like it will be decent as we haven't had any obvious nerfs outside of the potential loss of Speedwaaagh. Depending on how Lootas/Tankbustas/Flash Gitz pan out we could have a lot of decent options in Mek Guns, Buggies, and Wagon castles all being boosted by meks.

Hopefully the Gunwagon is still a separate datasheet and not awful so we can load up on gunboats and punchboats.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Main thing that annoys me about that preview is basically all our buffs are melee focused now. Army wide Goff melee, what bout shootin? Nah, no shootin' help.

The Mek +1 BS buff has been known for weeks.

Otehrwise agree with Jidmah. Liking stuff so far.

So what is the purpose of the "close combat weapon" profile on the beastsnaggas?

And if you take the Thump Gun, does that mean you cannot fire it and charge in the same turn?

Tittliewinks22 wrote:
So what is the purpose of the "close combat weapon" profile on the beastsnaggas?

And if you take the Thump Gun, does that mean you cannot fire it and charge in the same turn?

If you trade your choppa for a thump gun, you no longer have a choppa. Unless you are deff skullz, then you might have a blue choppa.
IMO a missed opportunity, in KillTeam the default combat weapon for orks was "Fists".

There are no limitations to shooting and charging in the same turn whatsoever. You can't advance and shoot it anymore though.

 Jidmah wrote:
Man, so much salt about almost nothing.

gungo wrote:
Im usually on point with you jidmah but I’m not seeing the combos on this..
Ghaz unless he’s super cheap is going to be prohibitively expensive for a unit that only buffs 1 unit of meganobs..is to slow to make it in combat… practically requires a unit of mega nobs and a battlewagon.. and without reroll charges can be an very expensive whiff.. while the +2 move and charge strat is nice.. Strats are only for a single unit a turn and is a worse replacement for reroll charges…

The replacement for 'ere we go is an army-wide +1" to movement for infantry.
Yes, I would have preferred keeping 'ere we go, but there is no reason to be bummed out over getting +1" instead.

Egh that +1 movement while nice doesn’t make most charges successful.. orks try to pack most of thier army into a single turn waaagh charge.. this usually means we are using kommandos with thier set 9in deepstrike, manz in trukks, dreads in tellyporta, warbikers, beastboys in killrigs, stormboys, and da jumped boys…while that 1in movement on boys is nice it doesn’t help all those 9in charges units orks relied on for reliable charges… we will have substantially less successful charges without the reroll. And while the +2 strat is nice it’s a movement phase only strat used preemptively usable only once a turn to increase reliability on 1 unit it doesn’t help when you fail a charge.

Well that's 9e ork play. We don't know yet how orks play in 10th.

I don't disagree, but I want to point out that you are describing mechanics and a meta of an edition that will soon be just as relevant as 4th edition, not an army identity.

'ere we go was fun while it lasted, but it's by no means necessary for successful charges - and for that one charge you absolutely have to make you can still use the new stratagem and command rerolls.

The top things I'm most curious about in terms of the new datasheets are:

Painboyz (do we get a proppa 5+ FNP or model revival/healing? what's the difference between a Painboy/Painboss besides stats?)
Big Mek with KFF (is he staying an aura character or is his buff only with the unit he's with?)
Big Mek with SAG (I feel like he'll just get devastating wounds baseline versus what we have now needing to roll a 11+ on strength for the weapon)

If we have the current system for how many buggies we can take (most likely).

Zodgrot Wortsnagga, can he finally have rules that do something meaningful for grots? Hell, maybe runtherds are just part of grot units again, or at the very least should be able to join them.

[quote=Grimskul 800443 11538689 e27273b86cadc80f5df667dad365665f.jpg Hell, maybe runtherds are just part of grot units again, or at the very least should be able to join them.

I hope the KFF just affects the unit it's in, but provides a more substantial benefit than 6++.

Tittliewinks22 wrote:
I hope the KFF just affects the unit it's in, but provides a more substantial benefit than 6++.

I'd happily take the KFF only affecting the joined unit if it's at least a 5++

I'm greedy. I want a 5++ KFF with a 6" aura.

 Jidmah wrote:
I'm greedy. I want a 5++ KFF with a 6" aura.

I mean we used to have that (against range only) for a while before 9th came knocking about. I miss the old days of the mega force field, 4+ invuln, felt real proppa when you had it on a Kustom Stompa. Super expensive? Yup. Worth it? Probably not. Flashy as hell? Gork yeah.

if it was a 4++ for a single unit I'd still take it, but 5++ I don't think I ever would.

Off topic but that new speedfreaks game looks amazing. 🤤

 Tomsug wrote:
Exactly. This is nice funny discussion but we see abou 5% of the puzzel.

- we dont know the core rules ( say ahllo to engagement range and terrain rules)
- we dont know all the ork rules
- we dont know the point costs. For 100p it is a great Ghazkhul. For 700p it is a nonsence.

Honestly, meta is always somethin different than they show in the previous. Preview is about melee Ghazzy? So the most interesting will be Big Mek with buggies or something like that

Technically we do know the core rules, they are floating about on the net. Imgur has a copy if i recall.

But yeah, until we get those points rules this is all a bit abstract. Ghaz has a wonderful buff for his unit 1+ to hit and wound can turn a lotta damage. But what units can he go with? Meganobz confirmed, but can he let even choppa lads harm the average tank on a 4+?

Unless they get an invul Meganobz my be risky. That cabal ability to turn off armour saves is scarey.

 flaming tadpole wrote:
if it was a 4++ for a single unit I'd still take it, but 5++ I don't think I ever would.

Off topic but that new speedfreaks game looks amazing. 🤤

Yeah, between that, the Blood, Shootas, and Teef game, and a few other games recently, it's nice not just getting another SM centric game in the video game space and we're getting good mileage there and even in terms of standalone novels.

I'm downloading the alpha for the game now, so I'm looking forward to some Twisted Metal Orky gameplay. It's good to be green!

Hells ya man. Gonna try to get into the alpha too hopefully. Looks a lot like the game crossout but even more fast paced and chaotic. Loved me some blood and teef too only wish it hadn’t been so short.

Just played the Alpha for Speed Freeks, it was actually surprisingly good! Obviously a bit barebones gameplay wise at the moment but the core gameplay is fun. I also like how they distinguished the different Ork rigs you can play as and how different combinations work well. Right now I'm a big fan of the Looted Tank and the Grot Mega Tank since they have the most dakka output, though the Deffkilla Wartrike is also quite solid. So far the main underwhelming one is the Shokkjump Dragsta IMO, just because you have to be somewhat accurate with their low rate of fire.

ccs wrote:
[quote=Grimskul 800443 11538689 e27273b86cadc80f5df667dad365665f.jpg Hell, maybe runtherds are just part of grot units again, or at the very least should be able to join them.

Don' t be scary! Rutherds part of the Grot units? Do you think I have the Rutherds for my 120 grots? I sold them or used for conversions!

 Grimskul wrote:

 flaming tadpole wrote:
if it was a 4++ for a single unit I'd still take it, but 5++ I don't think I ever would.

Off topic but that new speedfreaks game looks amazing. 🤤

Yeah, between that, the Blood, Shootas, and Teef game, and a few other games recently, it's nice not just getting another SM centric game in the video game space and we're getting good mileage there and even in terms of standalone novels.

I'm downloading the alpha for the game now, so I'm looking forward to some Twisted Metal Orky gameplay. It's good to be green!

That game trailer was the first one in a looong time which genuinely made me drop my jaw. I'm going to play the hell out of that game.

More on topic, some brainboy on reddit mathed out 'ere we go vs +1" to move:
https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerCompetitive/comments/13r03y8/i_did_da_maff_i_fink_ork_charging_9th_vs_10th_vs/

The TL;DR summary is that we lose 5% charge success on most ranges, but getter at hail marry charges. The stratagem is insanely effective on turns when you call a Waaagh!, still netting a 60%+ chance to make a charge against a target 20" away from an ork infantry unit at the beginning of your turn.

I guess moving away from orks when you call the Waaagh! at the beginning of your opponent's turn isn't really an option. Just make sure to have CP open for 'ere we go.

My main concern for Ghaz at the moment is getting bogged down in combats where his massive damage potential gets wasted. It really plays your hand into giving him a bodyguard to help him get through swarms of garbage infantry.

It would have been nice for Ghaz to have a Sweep attack like the other primarch type characters. Especially now that he can't shoot in melee.

 Afrodactyl wrote:
My main concern for Ghaz at the moment is getting bogged down in combats where his massive damage potential gets wasted. It really plays your hand into giving him a bodyguard to help him get through swarms of garbage infantry.

It would have been nice for Ghaz to have a Sweep attack like the other primarch type characters.

I think GW split traditional "supreme commanders" and primarchs into two separate tiers again. Thrakka compares quite well to guys like Abaddon, Ahriman, Trajann or the Swarmlord.
Gulliman and Angron are just a different league, and let's face it - no matter how much we love our ork fluff, there is no way Thrakka would win in a fair duel against any of the Daemon Primarchs or the Lion. Even Gulliman, despite being one of the worst duelists among the primarchs, and the bum of every 40k joke would still easily defeat Ragnar, wo already is exceptional amongst Space Marines. And let's not forget that his tabletop incarnation is equipped with insanely powerful relics.

I think the wish for being like Gulliman will disappear once you've blown up a couple of lone operatives by jumping a wazzbom or dakkajet within 12" of them

 Tomsug wrote:

ccs wrote:
[quote=Grimskul 800443 11538689 e27273b86cadc80f5df667dad365665f.jpg Hell, maybe runtherds are just part of grot units again, or at the very least should be able to join them.

Don' t be scary! Rutherds part of the Grot units? Do you think I have the Rutherds for my 120 grots? I sold them or used for conversions!

Not my words you quoted there....

I'm the guy who DOESN'T want runtherds in my grot units.
If they're optional, "meh".
If they're integral..... :(

Just follow the example of the great revolutionary Snaggi Littletoof and model one of your gretchin with a grotprod

So looking at the GK faction focus, I'm hopeful that Ghaz is actually going to take a substantial points cut. The Grandmaster in Dreadknight is faster, shootier, about as punchy, about as tough (when you consider Ghaz' 2++ through Makari) and gets cheap CP use.

Assuming the Grand Master stays at around the 200ish mark (after buying weapons), we could actually have a fairly cheap supreme leader if they're being pointed based on ability.

 Grimskul wrote:
Just played the Alpha for Speed Freeks, it was actually surprisingly good! Obviously a bit barebones gameplay wise at the moment but the core gameplay is fun. I also like how they distinguished the different Ork rigs you can play as and how different combinations work well. Right now I'm a big fan of the Looted Tank and the Grot Mega Tank since they have the most dakka output, though the Deffkilla Wartrike is also quite solid. So far the main underwhelming one is the Shokkjump Dragsta IMO, just because you have to be somewhat accurate with their low rate of fire.

Just tried the game as well, and ironically the SJD is my favorite, and I'm completely crushing the opposition with it. For an alpha, it's a very well done game.

 Jidmah wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:
Just played the Alpha for Speed Freeks, it was actually surprisingly good! Obviously a bit barebones gameplay wise at the moment but the core gameplay is fun. I also like how they distinguished the different Ork rigs you can play as and how different combinations work well. Right now I'm a big fan of the Looted Tank and the Grot Mega Tank since they have the most dakka output, though the Deffkilla Wartrike is also quite solid. So far the main underwhelming one is the Shokkjump Dragsta IMO, just because you have to be somewhat accurate with their low rate of fire.

Just tried the game as well, and ironically the SJD is my favorite, and I'm completely crushing the opposition with it. For an alpha, it's a very well done game.

You're clearly a better shot than I am then haha, you've got a grot's aim, I definitely match the BS5+ of Orks in game lol.

Also, more leaks on how terrain works in 10th, seems like it's pretty much the same for a lot of areas, and it's more about it being easier to obtain the +1 to save rather than -1 to hit for dense terrain which I believe is gone at this point. So Ghazzy being able to Kool-Aid man through walls is definitely a buff as infantry now.