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I had a bmw once… wish I hadn’t. Value looking back was less than zero. Only benefit was it confirmed I was an idiot.

 phandaal wrote:

Asmodios wrote:


"If someone doesn't actually want a Vindicare or Sigmork, the value is $0."
As written this post is 100% wrong. Just because someone doesn't want the item its value is not $0. Just because I don't want a Porsche the value of a Porsche is not $0. That is not how value works and it's not what you posted. You later posted what you intended to write but that is not what you wrote. I said in my original post that people's perception of value will decide if they get the item or not. The only argument was about your reply to my post that was a false statement as written.

As written, the post was open for you to interpret in the silliest way possible in order to argue about nothing.

By all means, keep saying that thing you think we are all saying and stating how ridiculous it is. We all agree with you - it's a ridiculous thing to say. That's why nobody said it.

Anyway, you know what they say about the biggest fool being the one who follows, so you'll have to keep going on this merry-go-round without me.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 kodos wrote:

Asmodios wrote:
That is not how value works and it's not what you posted.

this is exactly how value works and the whole western philosophy of the free market is build around it, that the value of something is only based and how much others want it

if no one wants a products, the price will be decreased because the price does not reflect the value it has for the customers

so if you don't want a Porsche, the value of the Porsche is Zero and nothing more, if you would still buy a Porsche for half the price, than its value is half the price
this does not change just because someone else would be double to price to get one because he really wants one

He's claiming we're saying that the thing has objectively zero value for anyone ever, anywhere, because one person doesn't want it. Yes, it's silly, but if he would actually engage with what people are saying he wouldn't be able to fight about it.

Best to pull the ripcord now.

(Still accepting free Vindicares and Sigmorks, BTW. If all goes according to plan I'll be swimming in valueless plastic before the day is out!)

You are saying i interpreted your post in a silly way but then the above poster just argued exactly what you posted as written which means people did take that post literally. Its ok though we now know what you were trying to say and yes your perceived value of the model could be that its worthless and the content on the app is worthless thus its a bad purchase for you. That's fine and ill respectfully disagree that i see a far greater value on the release deal but thats purely subjective

Asmodios wrote:

You are saying i interpreted your post in a silly way but then the above poster just argued exactly what you posted as written which means people did take that post literally. Its ok though we now know what you were trying to say and yes your perceived value of the model could be that its worthless and the content on the app is worthless thus its a bad purchase for you. That's fine and ill respectfully disagree that i see a far greater value on the release deal but thats purely subjective

I really genuinely mean it when I say that nobody is saying what you think they are saying, including the guy you replied to. Maybe it seems like I'm trying to one-up you, but I'm not.

Every single person is referring to individual perceived value distinct from a market price. Full stop, that's all folks.

Aye, thats it, so time to drop that argument please.

 phandaal wrote:

Asmodios wrote:

You are saying i interpreted your post in a silly way but then the above poster just argued exactly what you posted as written which means people did take that post literally. Its ok though we now know what you were trying to say and yes your perceived value of the model could be that its worthless and the content on the app is worthless thus its a bad purchase for you. That's fine and ill respectfully disagree that i see a far greater value on the release deal but thats purely subjective

I really genuinely mean it when I say that nobody is saying what you think they are saying, including the guy you replied to. Maybe it seems like I'm trying to one-up you, but I'm not.

Every single person is referring to individual perceived value distinct from a market price. Full stop, that's all folks.

That might be what you and the other poster were attempting to say but you failed to properly convey it. Because it's a written conversation with strangers i have to go off of what a person posts. So when a poster says "if you don't want a Porsche, the value of the Porsche is Zero and nothing more" I have to take him at his word that this is what he's trying to convey. I could assume that he means that if he doesn't want a Porsche then HIS perceived value for that Porsche is $0. But then I'm constantly replying to what I assume people are writing and not what they actually are. This means that I can just as easily as context or meaning that's not supposed to be there... and you know what they say assumptions make

All good.

 jeff white wrote:
I haven’t voted as I was most interested in hearing the better educated community’s response and simply will not have time to use such a subscription to justify signing up. I do wonder if the content will have appeal for nsfw adult minded consumers or if it will be aimed at a Saturday morning cartoon level audience. When I was younger, grim darkness meant nsfw and was stepping away from morning cartoons for kids into the gritty unforgiving real world of endless wars for imperial expansion and all that goes with… parody being that this fantasy very much applied to the lived situation as a critically minded gen Xer in the USA in the late 80s and early 90s until today… the depth of parody has worn thin since recent recasting of the empire, and some of the appeal was lost for me as the game and hobby became more commodified as GW went full on latter day corporate capitalist, white knighting its own empire and expansion for profit with legal violence a growing threat. So, for me, this is interesting, the way that warhammer plus is received by dedicated fans of different demographics… This subscription service might be a move further into the sweet cereal of forgetfulness with sweet serials that forget the critical angle that was its value, for me, or it might reclaim the adult swim flavor and depth of sci fi trope, being the clearinghouse for fantasy concept that it originally was.

The content has not really pulled many punches. Everything has been rated TV-14 / MA15+. The themes are quite adult, there's plenty of violence, and a fair bit of psychic horror and grim dark.

This is NOT stuff you'd see on Saturday morning.

Thanks for getting us back on track Daedalus. Poll numbers remain negative, and I can understand why even if the content is good. After their library accumulates and binge watching weekends becomes a possibility, maybe consensus will shift.

 jeff white wrote:
Thanks for getting us back on track Daedalus. Poll numbers remain negative, and I can understand why even if the content is good. After their library accumulates and binge watching weekends becomes a possibility, maybe consensus will shift.

Old White Dwarf issues would move the needle for me big time. Stuff from the 90s/early 00s, even stuff from the 80s. Back when they had more of that "hobby in your friend's garage" feel.

I had White Dwarfs stacked in boxes from that era… loved the batreps with little icons and interviews, before and after accounts, both 40k and Fantasy. Gonna need some alone time to remember that far back.

Old white dwarfs where good stuff, I would love to see them go up to read.

What time does the wednesday refill occur exactly? GW has not stated any specific time of day, only saying "Wednesday"

Today will see Q1/2021 White Dwarf mags getting added to the Vault, I'm surprised they are giving us access to such recent issues.. With this rate, the September issue with the KT2 rules for that new Admech team could be in the Vault pretty soon?!

The new content was listed around 1pm UK time, but took around 10-15mins before it would play.

Angels of Death Ep2 was pretty cool

 xttz wrote:
The new content was listed around 1pm UK time, but took around 10-15mins before it would play.

Angels of Death Ep2 was pretty cool

Not a ton of content in this week's update, I've watched it all already in about an hour while cooking and doing the dishes... That said, it's all good stuff: bat rep was entertaining (if a bit bite-sized), citadel masterclass is handy as ever and Angels of Death Ep2 was cool.

 phandaal wrote:

Asmodios wrote:

I mean that is literally a controversial statement.... If I do not want a 75 inch TV but someone drops it off at my door it isn't without value. It might not be the $1000 it retails for but it certainly has a value on the market. This goes for every model GW sells. I might not like DE but if someone drops the starter box on my doorstep it still has value. It might not have as much value to me but it isn't $0. This goes for the 2 models GW is offering they will have a standard market price as soon as they ship and people begin to sell them.

This is going nowhere, so just a friendly bit of advice: try to understand how different people can see different (or no) value in the same thing. You can't fight someone into valuing something the same way you do.

So how is cold hard cash you will get from model 0 value?

If money has zero value then you aren't paying for sub with anything that has value to you ie it's free for you. You pay 0.

Thread is slowing down with a roughly 60 negative 40 positive split.

Will be interested to see if this result shifts over time.

Still too early for me to vote.

I’ve enjoyed it so far, but we’re yet to see a Loremaster video. If you’ve ever visited the 40K Background thread, you’ll know the lore and the discussion of it is as passion of mine.

So naturally, I’ve a strong interest in Loremaster. I hope it’s suitably crunchy, and shines a light on lesser known background and that. The risk is it could be quite dry watching, if they’re just regurgitating the written stuff, and not joining the dots and that.

And GW haven’t had a chance to start incorporating any feedback from those of us watching it.

Plus they need to strike the balance between accessible to newcomers, and deep diving enough to keep more veteran eyes on the screen.

Not enough for me now but in 6-18 months it should be pretty damn cool.

I was willing to give it a try and when I tried to sign up for it (multiple times with different payment methods with different browsers on different days in different wi-fi locations), I kept getting a "nurglings in the system - please try again" error.

*sigh*

The second Blood Angels episode was great. Lesser animation than Astartes, but more story and intrigue.

 jeff white wrote:
Will be interested to see if this result shifts over time.

Probably better to re-do the poll from scratch in 6-8 months time once, y'know, W+ actually has some content.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 jeff white wrote:
Will be interested to see if this result shifts over time.

Probably better to re-do the poll from scratch in 6-8 months time once, y'know, W+ actually has some content.

Is that actually going to make a difference? The binge watching crowd will have something to keep them busy for a month, but that won't change anything about update speed and volume.

I'm not seeing an appreciable difference between not enough content and not enough content for more than a month when the question is about long term sustainability of the service.

Well if GW hires animators, and makes them work Japan/Korea style, then the amount of content could be huge in 12-18 months. There could be two whole sesons of Angels of Death.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 jeff white wrote:
Will be interested to see if this result shifts over time.

Probably better to re-do the poll from scratch in 6-8 months time once, y'know, W+ actually has some content.

Will do.
I will add this to my calendar.

I think the vinidcare is cool and is worth it for me (I am a collector and have every assassin they have produced so far, so was great for me).

I am totally waiting for the lore channel as well, as Mad Doc said above.

For the Angels animation, in the second episode I found some of the fight scenes a bit jumpy and funny: The destruction of the bounty and she wasn't contacted by the ships that destroyed it (could be xenos infiltrated as well etc), or she didn't try to contact them? Or no other ship in the flotilla moved or contacted her? The chimera rolled up and was there for a bit and didn't have a lock on the marines standing still in the middle of the area and hit the statue? (they cut that scene wrong I think, I think the marine that dodged the blast should have been before the statue got hit and then the captain saved the other marine) etc, etc. Superfluous, was a good watch, but 2 minute intro to a 18minute show... However, I enjoyed it.

Do I think it will be around in a year? Unless they get a s**ttonne of subscribers then it will run at a loss on face value, but the extra marketing and sales from marketing could offset that. For example, in the future, if say the Eldar are the next codex out and they put out a heap of episodes that shows how awesome they are, lots of heroic moments etc, really make you connect or associate with the Eldar plight and then the week after the shows are released, bam Eldar are released, it could drive sales up a lot etc.
Or if sales of xxxx faction are low and they want to move some stock of xxxx faction to make room for future releases, release some episodes on Warhammer TV that focus on that faction etc (bam sales will probably go up).

Gunna copy the rest of my thoughts from another thread about value for me:

So second week of it and my thoughts now:

I still think it is worth the money, its $100 AU per year (I pay almost that much for 1 take-away meal for my family), so I paid it and figure I will just wait a few months for content to build up and binge watch it (as said before, the model and 40k app are almost worth it alone, the video content is bonus).

However, I watched the first 2 of the Blood angel show now and I am enjoying it (will now not watch anymore till have a heap built up, the episodes are to short).

The batreps, pass. Are way better channels for that aspect (Miniwargaming, Tabletop Tactics, Mountain Miniature Gaming, Sticking Scorpion 82 etc).

The white dwarfs etc, meh ye is ok good bonus.

I am really waiting for the Lore channel (I love channels like Luiten09 etc), I can't wait for that.

Conclusion after second week:

I totally think is worth it, I figure paying $100 per year for a model, 40k app, AoS app (when improved/developed) and some extras like some 40k animations and a lore channel, whenever it comes. It's no netflix/Stan/Amazon Prime etc or anything like that, but I didn't expect it to be. So big from me.

Spectral Ceramite wrote:

Spoiler:

For the Angels animation, in the second episode I found some of the fight scenes a bit jumpy and funny: The destruction of the bounty and she wasn't contacted by the ships that destroyed it (could be xenos infiltrated as well etc), or she didn't try to contact them? Or no other ship in the flotilla moved or contacted her? The chimera rolled up and was there for a bit and didn't have a lock on the marines standing still in the middle of the area and hit the statue? (they cut that scene wrong I think, I think the marine that dodged the blast should have been before the statue got hit and then the captain saved the other marine) etc, etc. Superfluous, was a good watch, but 2 minute intro to a 18minute show... However, I enjoyed it.

Spoilering for those who haven't watched.

I'm a subscriber, will keep it for a year... However I think they need to get their act together quite sharpish if they want this to last longer than a year.

More than 2 battle reports a week, ideally including specialist games (perfect place and resources to do an actual necromunda campaign with multiple gangs).

The animation which was the main draw for many is too thin on the ground and I do not think 1 episode per week is enough. It needs to be at least 2, with those 2 being different shows/series.

It's success was guaranteed the second they showed the Vindicare.

It is fun to do a first take with a poll but all that really matters is the bottom line subscription "poll" $$$. I may not care for WH+, but I only buy GW models and paints for use in other games so my opinion does not matter. There are many people on these forums who, for various reasons, are not the target audience for this type of content purchase. Not everyone needs to be my friends. Just because it is not for me does not mean it is not for everyone. I hope WH+ succeeds because I would like to see more companies/games organize their systems through apps supported by optional hard copy and pdf purchases.

That's not what GW is doing via W+. It's not even really close.

If W+ was a fiver (or even a tenner, with the other content) a month for full digital access to every rulebook GW produces I'd be all for it. But that's not what it is, and there's zero indications it is ever going to become that.

This is the company that has actually *discontinued* digital versions of its rules for the new editions of its two flagship games, not expanded them.