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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2021/08/31 08:32:48
Subject: Re:3D Printing and Competitive Play
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Gore-Drenched Khorne Chaos Lord
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Vatsetis wrote: Turnip Jedi wrote:It's fine, the genie is well and truly out of the bottle and even with a C&D team going all out they can't beat the internet
I can see GW next knee-jerk reaction being leaning on the bigger events to bend to their no printed toys whims, cos stupid is as stupid does
In Flames of War and SW Legion the 3D printing minis are getting a lot of traction... The pandemic has probably been a turning point for this type of tech in the tabletop gamming scene... Hard to tell if this will wreck GW business model... But its certainly a mayor challenge.
It won't wreck the business model, but in 10 years or so it might be prevalent enough they need to do something to get in on the action. At the moment even if it were a threat I'd wager the minority of people have a high enough quality printer and those selling 3rd party items on etsy etc. are often not much cheaper than GW kits from what I've seen.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2021/08/31 08:42:29
Subject: Re:3D Printing and Competitive Play
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Executing Exarch
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well recasts seemed to have had no impact on the record profits of late so its currently unclear if 3d printing will
(not cheerleading for IP theft but both that and 3d prints seem to be a tad strawmanny in the same mindset of videogame piracy)
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/31 08:44:00
"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED." |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2021/08/31 08:56:02
Subject: 3D Printing and Competitive Play
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Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon
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So this is something which confuses me.
Whilst there is of course potential to 3D printing, as it’s become more prevalent (I now know quite a few people with the setup for it). But, GW continue to post record takings and profits.
Which would rather suggest the appetite to just 3D print an army is somewhat limited.
The friends who have the kit aren’t printing knock-offs either. Rather, they’re going for completely different models, with no particular gaming purpose intended or in mind.
So at the moment, it seems 33D printing isn’t the threat many might think.
As time progresses, who can tell what will happen? 3D printing is obviously useful to society. But how useful? Are most households going to buy one, on the off chance they might need some doohicky in the future? Even if the price comes right down, how many households will feel the need for such kit?
It does seem entirely possible that GW will eventually sell stl files for their kits. We already know they’ve been using rapid prototyping for sculpts for a good while now. Thinking back, since at least the early 2000’s to the best of my knowledge. So claims they’re just sticking their head in the sand don’t seem to hold water. They adopted it well before the community did, and will no doubt be following it as it progresses.
I also query exactly what it is people are printing. Is it wholesale armies? Or just bits and add-on parts to customise.
Certainly the Facebook based trading groups in my circle don’t allow 3D prints or recasts, or the promotion thereof. That’s not a sucking up to GW, but instead protecting folks from being ripped off.
It’s a similar zero tolerance approach to repro in Star Wars Vintage trading. On the one hand, repro weapons and bits hold an appeal. They allow someone on a tighter budget to complete figures in their collection. But, on the other? They devalue the genuine article. Consider. I might sell a repro blaster or staff in good faith. No pretence that it’s repro, no claim that it’s original. However, the person I sell it to might be somewhat less scrupulous, and start selling them on (at a decent profit) as genuine originals.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2021/08/31 09:03:06
Subject: 3D Printing and Competitive Play
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The Dread Evil Lord Varlak
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As of now, 3D printing, especially with resin is still something alot of people are concerned about, especially in regards of the material in use.
Also space meets air and price for a full setup.
that being said, a lot of the increased earnings so far are based upon the monopolistic position of GW and the increased pricing, being contrasted by a somewhat inflexible demand.
3d Printing makes that demand more flexible and the more accessible it becomes the more flexible that demand will become.
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https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2021/08/31 09:09:13
Subject: 3D Printing and Competitive Play
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Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon
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Sorry, I don’t agree GW’s profits are solely due to price rises.
It’s just not supported by their sales figures, as published at six month intervals. In the year to May 2021, they saw a 31% increase in sales. Yet, there’s been no across the board 31% increase in prices.
Yes, some of that increase will be down to price increases, as will the knock on effect to their overall profit margin (especially if their production costs haven’t increased by the same percentage). But it simply cannot be the sole reason. Indeed, looking at the same financials ( https://investor.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/Year-End-Presentation-2021-for-IR.pdf page 4) their costs increased £14m to £121m)
So with that in mind, I’m afraid the claim they’re only increasing takings because they’re increasing prices just doesn’t hold water.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2021/08/31 09:13:28
Subject: 3D Printing and Competitive Play
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The Dread Evil Lord Varlak
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Quoting May 2021 data from the lockdown were people picked up en mass the game since they had time is not excactly disproving my assertion and more pointing to a singular cause that increased sales.
Aka no, your singular instance has not proven anything other than 2021 being a fringe year as are all covid years for that matter.
Further considering the monolithical presence of GW in many areas their increasing sales and prices don't disprove its monopolistical position.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/08/31 09:15:39
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2021/08/31 09:18:17
Subject: Re:3D Printing and Competitive Play
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Executing Exarch
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@ MDG
Fair points, I suspect a lot of the support for 3d is coming from those who fall outside the 3-5 year GW customer churn and are smidge burnt out on GWs " “All of this has happened before, and it will all happen again.” cycle along with 3d being a new(ish) thing so it might well take a couple of cycles to really start nudging their money flow
I dont follow GW finance stuff but has 3d been mention in any of their reports ?
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"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED." |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2021/08/31 09:25:09
Subject: 3D Printing and Competitive Play
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Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon
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Take a look back at their previous annual results. They’ve been making serious increases since at least 2016-2017.
2016-2017, 34% increase
2017-2018, 39% increase
2018-2019, 16% increase
2019-2020, 31% increase
2020-2021, 31% increase.
For clarity, in 2016-2017 their annual takings were £158,114,000. By 2020-2021, that’s increased year on year to £353,200,000.
That’s an increase well in excess that can be hand waved as simply the impact of higher prices. 233% increase in takings (I think, maths isn’t my strong suit), with no 233% increase in price tickets. (Actually a 223% increase, my error)
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Turnip Jedi wrote:@ MDG
Fair points, I suspect a lot of the support for 3d is coming from those who fall outside the 3-5 year GW customer churn and are smidge burnt out on GWs " “All of this has happened before, and it will all happen again.” cycle along with 3d being a new(ish) thing so it might well take a couple of cycles to really start nudging their money flow
I dont follow GW finance stuff but has 3d been mention in any of their reports ?
Mentioned in passing, as something they’re aware of and are looking into, but don’t currently perceive as a particular threat, if memory serves.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/08/31 09:27:31
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2021/08/31 09:32:56
Subject: 3D Printing and Competitive Play
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The Dread Evil Lord Varlak
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Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Take a look back at their previous annual results. They’ve been making serious increases since at least 2016-2017.
2016-2017, 34% increase
2017-2018, 39% increase
2018-2019, 16% increase
2019-2020, 31% increase
2020-2021, 31% increase.
For clarity, in 2016-2017 their annual takings were £158,114,000. By 2020-2021, that’s increased year on year to £353,200,000.
That’s an increase well in excess that can be hand waved as simply the impact of higher prices. 233% increase in takings (I think, maths isn’t my strong suit), with no 233% increase in price tickets.
We know that GW pricing outpaces inflation.
We also know that GW prices only know to go up.
If you want to see the real sales ( AS IN UNITS SOLD) increase you'd have to remove the pricing to see the instances.
Further economically speaking the increasing of prices AND maintenance or increase of custommer basis is only really possible if you HAVE an infelxible demand f.e. when you are the singular owner of a serivce aka "monopolistic".
My argument is that 3d Printing will over longterm (probably more midterm so about 5 years) make the demand curve a lot more flexible.
Thats less maths and more economic systems.
Overall further, assuming you regard the whole market in that system you will realise that GW is an outlier, as mentioned in another thread that initially Miniatures sales increased during lockdown but that only GW could maintain that increase which would mean that GW has a far more consolidated and isolated market position which in turn would go back to the monopoly upon IP basis with no direct competitor of its system that has the relevant enough size to force GW to adapt to the market.
Rather the market adapts to GW's stipulations including aswell higher prices or focus on the same scale as seen by recasters and companies like kromlech.
3D printing sofar is the only challange to that.
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https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2021/08/31 09:55:31
Subject: 3D Printing and Competitive Play
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Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon
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On the inflation thing. Last financial year GW’s running costs increased 14%. Inflation did not. So…yeah. They’re not pegging anything to inflation, nor are they required to.
I still don’t see GW just sitting on their hands regarding 3D printing. They’ve been using it for nearly (possibly more than) 20 years for rapid prototyping. And we know that at least FW 3D print their demo models.
That’s….that’s not a company about to be blindsided, is it? Will we see a GW branded 3D printer in the future? Well….probably! They might even invest in custom software, so you need their printer to produce their models.
Either way, 3D printing isn’t the deathknell of GW or war gaming in general.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2021/08/31 10:00:40
Subject: 3D Printing and Competitive Play
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The Dread Evil Lord Varlak
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Don't mistake their "oh its something we look into but of no concern" as reality but rather as a statement to specfic people with specific concerns . in this case to make investors comfortable and trust them in their purchase.. which to remind you, took a lot of money in a second production facility.
I also am not of the oppinion that 3d printing will destroy wargaming, to the contrary i think it will reinvigorate the hobby.
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https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2021/08/31 10:29:16
Subject: 3D Printing and Competitive Play
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Regular Dakkanaut
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The first wargaming company that can work out a model that allows them to their 3d files and still make a profit is going to make a killing.
All wargaming companies have struggled with distro and production rates over the last few years. That's why so many have turned to kickstarter. Not as a cash raiser, but as a distro and production channel.
If a company could sell you a licence to print x amount of a product at a good rate then they would be quids in.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2021/08/31 10:36:55
Subject: 3D Printing and Competitive Play
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Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon
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If anyone can do that, just by their sheer size and available capital for investment, it’s probably GW.
Whether there’s even a workable model within that idea is for far wiser and better informed minds than my own.
Though if they can make something of it propriety, it seems entirely possible they could lease that technology to other companies for added revenue streams (like Nintendo with their cartridges in days of yore? Well, kind of. It’s not a great analogy but it’s what I’ve got for now!)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2021/08/31 11:54:26
Subject: 3D Printing and Competitive Play
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Regular Dakkanaut
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GWs prices are high because their production costs are high. Their expansion of production facilities in nottingham cost them a lot of money and when you compare that investment with the fact that an amateur hobbyist with a $300 resin printer can achieve basically indistinguishable quality prints of STL files purchased off gumroad, it is definitely a concern that has been raised in an internal powerpoint presentation at some point.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2021/08/31 11:55:17
Subject: 3D Printing and Competitive Play
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Shas'la with Pulse Carbine
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GW also demonstrated multiple times that their approach to technology is definitely sub-par, to put it kindly.
The 40K app, the AoS app, digital versions of codices, the warehousing debacle that is going on for months now...
All examples of how they are clueless and not willing to splash the necessary money to get things done properly. It's not a secret they tend to do everything in-house and not by commissioning the job to external companies.
3D printing prototypes from a STL file you modeled yourself does not require much know how, I learned to do it myself over a couple of days.
Designing and launching a product line of 3D printers with proprietary technology that allows you to sell STL files and combat piracy at the same time is entirely another thing.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2021/08/31 12:22:48
Subject: 3D Printing and Competitive Play
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Moustache-twirling Princeps
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I'm not so sure. We haven't seen a GW branded airbrush yet (I'm ignoring the hand flamer thing), and the most common reason given by GW staff is they don't want the hassle of 'supporting' them. I would guess the same would apply to 3D printers.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2021/08/31 14:13:18
Subject: 3D Printing and Competitive Play
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Preparing the Invasion of Terra
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Sim-Life wrote:This is the most "new thing bad" post I've read in a while.
Its very easy to reverse it completely, watch:
That's not what I said, as someone else has already pointed out. My points about ease of access and kitbashing were entirely separate, indeed I made sure they were separate paragraphs in an attempt to avoid stuff like this.
Not to mention this is GW, so the cost of a starter 3D printer is about the same as the kits you'd need to buy to start kitbashing.
Probably but also not relevant to the specific point of ease of access. If you'd properly read my post you'd see that I say kitbashing and converting is a challenge, i.e. not something I'd expect a beginner to do.
But on the topic of cost, let's take a look at a beginner.
Drukhari (arguably the most competitive army so as to stay vaguely on-topic). The Combat Patrol costs £85. A basic 3 colour scheme, let's say Contrast to make it a bit easier, which is £12.50 for the spray and £14.25 for 3 contrast paints, then £4.75 for a basing material, and a pot of glue for £4.50. I'll include the "Essential Citadel Brush Selection" as well which is £34.45. So we're currently sitting on £155.45 with everything I need to start my army.
A 3d printer seems to cost at the low point, £140-ish, then I need to get files, get printing material and learn to use the printer. I've almost spent as much as what I spent on GW stuff and I have no models, paints or brushes.
I'd argue that anyone wanting to get into Warhammer would actually be BETTER buying a 3D printer as it's cheaper in the long run to find out if you enjoy the game or not. You can print a whole 2000pts army at a fraction of the cost of buying actual GW stuff.
A lot of people who get into Warhammer are teenagers and from personal experience, I highly doubt either parents or the teens themselves are going to entertain the idea of a 3d printer.
In general, I'm quite disappointed by this post because it encapsulates the response I get when I say 3d printing isn't superior to buying GW products. I'm not saying everyone should be loyal to GW and only buy their products and I never will but it doesn't matter what I say because people always read it that way.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/31 14:15:24
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2021/08/31 14:15:10
Subject: 3D Printing and Competitive Play
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Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon
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There’s also an odd assumption being made that the majority of gamers are happy with piracy.
My own opinion on that entirely aside? It doesn’t seem to be the case.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2021/08/31 14:30:48
Subject: 3D Printing and Competitive Play
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Preparing the Invasion of Terra
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I find that quite funny as well considering Dakka has a rule against promoting piracy.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2021/08/31 14:38:27
Subject: 3D Printing and Competitive Play
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Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests
Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.
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3D Printing =/= Piracy.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2021/08/31 14:41:31
Subject: Re:3D Printing and Competitive Play
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Dakka Veteran
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Thats Heresy!!!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2021/08/31 14:48:30
Subject: Re:3D Printing and Competitive Play
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Stalwart Dark Angels Space Marine
Plains World
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At my FLGS the consensus is "if we can't get it from the store and we can't get it from GW, we'll get it 3D printed." Most recently this came up during a discussion of the unavailability of Forge World models. Some people also print a lot of custom parts or models for their armies.
Only have one 3D printed model myself - a custom female Culexus assassin. Cool model, great detail, high quality cured resin.
Most people don't have 3D printers, but everyone knows how to get in touch with someone who does.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/31 14:59:08
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2021/08/31 14:52:11
Subject: 3D Printing and Competitive Play
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Preparing the Invasion of Terra
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Depends. If it's an original design used as a proxy then sure but not if it's a printout of a 3d scan of a regular model.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2021/08/31 15:12:43
Subject: 3D Printing and Competitive Play
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Leader of the Sept
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Gert wrote:
Not to mention this is GW, so the cost of a starter 3D printer is about the same as the kits you'd need to buy to start kitbashing.
Probably but also not relevant to the specific point of ease of access. If you'd properly read my post you'd see that I say kitbashing and converting is a challenge, i.e. not something I'd expect a beginner to do.
But on the topic of cost, let's take a look at a beginner.
Drukhari (arguably the most competitive army so as to stay vaguely on-topic). The Combat Patrol costs £85. A basic 3 colour scheme, let's say Contrast to make it a bit easier, which is £12.50 for the spray and £14.25 for 3 contrast paints, then £4.75 for a basing material, and a pot of glue for £4.50. I'll include the "Essential Citadel Brush Selection" as well which is £34.45. So we're currently sitting on £155.45 with everything I need to start my army.
A 3d printer seems to cost at the low point, £140-ish, then I need to get files, get printing material and learn to use the printer. I've almost spent as much as what I spent on GW stuff and I have no models, paints or brushes.
You need the paints and brushes regardless of the model source.
A good current gen resin 3D printer costs about £200, plus another £100 or so on tools, post processing kit and protective consumables.
The combat patrol box comes with 18 customisable models and includes a pair of identical light vehicles. You can get sets of 10 or so STLs, including light vehicles, for £10. There are a range of army deals for sci-fi themed forces for about £40 that tend to provide 30 to 60 individual sculpts. The ability for 3D models to be mirrored can stretch this even further.
Allowing for print failures and supports, you can easily get 50 or so 32mm scale minis out of a litre of resin. So if you add all the expense into the first equivalent batch, then printing effectively costs £400 for 50 models. 50 models coming from 3x GW combat patrol costs £255. the thing is, though, that the next 50 printed models costs about £50, if you buy a new set of STLs and new resin, while the next 50 GW models still costs you £255.
There is a sharp up front cost, but then the return on investment comes back really quickly.
Then of course, at some point the the printer will fail and need replacement which changes the dynamic again.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/31 15:26:58
Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!
Terranwing - w3;d1;l1
51st Dunedinw2;d0;l0
Cadre Coronal Afterglow w1;d0;l0 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2021/08/31 15:35:33
Subject: 3D Printing and Competitive Play
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Preparing the Invasion of Terra
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Flinty wrote:You need the paints and brushes regardless of the model source.
I was trying to cover all my bases with the paint+tools cost which I actually still calculated wrong but also could have made better choices with. I mean there's like 6 beginners modeling kits and I just forgot they existed
The combat patrol box comes with 18 customisable models and includes a pair of identical light vehicles. You can get sets of 10 or so STLs, including light vehicles, for £10. There are a range of army deals for sci-fi themed forces for about £40 that tend to provide .
Allowing for print failures and supports, you can easily get 50 or so 32mm scale minis out of a litre of resin. So if you add all the expense into the first equivalent batch, then printing effectively costs £400 for 50 models. 50 models coming from 3x GW combat patrol costs £255. the thing is, though, that the next 50 printed models costs about £50, if you buy a new set of STLs and new resin, while the next 50 GW models still costs you £255.
I've found that in many cases taking multiple CP boxes isn't an "optimal" way to build an army and I think Durkhari might actually be the only exception so far IMO.
But my main point was that even if we ignore the costs of either a printer or an army from GW, if I buy from GW I don't have to wait for anything before I begin (except maybe delivery times but I'm ignoring that in this case). All I need to do is open the box and start building models which isn't the case with 3d printing.
Plus, the investment of the printer is only worth it if you know for sure you're going to be doing Warhammer for more than one army/tournament/whatever. If I buy a CP box and find out I actually hate the game then £85 isn't that big of a sink compared to £300+.
Again, people can do what they want, I'm not here to judge. As long as we can have civil discussion like this instead of hyperbolic nonsense and insults just because I don't think 3d printing is the bee's knees.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/31 15:36:47
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2021/08/31 15:43:42
Subject: 3D Printing and Competitive Play
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Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon
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Gert wrote:
Depends. If it's an original design used as a proxy then sure but not if it's a printout of a 3d scan of a regular model.
Pretty much this. To be fair, the context of my post was in the preceding conversation, so easily missed.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2021/08/31 15:50:44
Subject: 3D Printing and Competitive Play
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Leader of the Sept
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But model prep and print time is equivalent to delivery time. You can probably get your hands on the plastic more quickly if you live in a city with a GW store, but otherwise, its overnight delivery in both cases. If you have settings dialled in nicely, then model prep on 3D printing is much quicker than dealing with plastic sprues. For GW models you need to clip stuff off sprues then glue small pieces of plastic together. For printed models, you can spend basically the same time fiddling with pose, or changing weapons in modelling software. Print support removal should be as easy as peeling the model off the build plate.
I think I have a very long winded way of saying that the time from purchase to completion of a model ready for painting is similar between traditional GW models and 3D printing.
Definately not trying to say that there is only 1 way to do things, or either way in particular is technically better, but I don't think that, in practice, there is as much difference between the methods as it may seem. Its just the workflow is different.
Also if you find you don't like either way, then second hand nearly-new printers will fetch a good price on e-bay, just as GW models will
Automatically Appended Next Post: Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Gert wrote:
Depends. If it's an original design used as a proxy then sure but not if it's a printout of a 3d scan of a regular model.
Pretty much this. To be fair, the context of my post was in the preceding conversation, so easily missed.
3D printing is piracy, in the same way that using e-bay is piracy
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/31 15:51:46
Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!
Terranwing - w3;d1;l1
51st Dunedinw2;d0;l0
Cadre Coronal Afterglow w1;d0;l0 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2021/08/31 15:55:33
Subject: 3D Printing and Competitive Play
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Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba
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Gert wrote: Flinty wrote:You need the paints and brushes regardless of the model source.
I was trying to cover all my bases with the paint+tools cost which I actually still calculated wrong but also could have made better choices with. I mean there's like 6 beginners modeling kits and I just forgot they existed
The combat patrol box comes with 18 customisable models and includes a pair of identical light vehicles. You can get sets of 10 or so STLs, including light vehicles, for £10. There are a range of army deals for sci-fi themed forces for about £40 that tend to provide .
Allowing for print failures and supports, you can easily get 50 or so 32mm scale minis out of a litre of resin. So if you add all the expense into the first equivalent batch, then printing effectively costs £400 for 50 models. 50 models coming from 3x GW combat patrol costs £255. the thing is, though, that the next 50 printed models costs about £50, if you buy a new set of STLs and new resin, while the next 50 GW models still costs you £255.
I've found that in many cases taking multiple CP boxes isn't an "optimal" way to build an army and I think Durkhari might actually be the only exception so far IMO.
But my main point was that even if we ignore the costs of either a printer or an army from GW, if I buy from GW I don't have to wait for anything before I begin (except maybe delivery times but I'm ignoring that in this case). All I need to do is open the box and start building models which isn't the case with 3d printing.
Plus, the investment of the printer is only worth it if you know for sure you're going to be doing Warhammer for more than one army/tournament/whatever. If I buy a CP box and find out I actually hate the game then £85 isn't that big of a sink compared to £300+.
Again, people can do what they want, I'm not here to judge. As long as we can have civil discussion like this instead of hyperbolic nonsense and insults just because I don't think 3d printing is the bee's knees.
Unless you happen to also enjoy....
-making custom components for your board games
-making customized miniatures to perfectly represent your DnD characters/party
-printing up cool monsters/creatures for your RPG games
-playing any number of historical games, where miniatures are completely not controlled by any copyright issues, and are generally either cheap or free
-doing any kind of digital art that would be cooler if given physical form
any kind of big box, or any combat patrol+the codex for the faction you want to play is, at this point, basically identical to the startup cost of buying an entire new resin printer. My new kill team box actually cost me *exactly* the same amount my printer did. People can generally sustain a ~200$ investment for hobbies they enjoy, otherwise nobody would have, like TVs or video game consoles or sporting equipment. The barrier in the way of 3d printing is 100% the learning curve and the fact that you have to know how to use PPE. Honestly I dont really see it as any different at all to say airbrushing, which has become more and more entrenched within miniature painting hobby groups.
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"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2021/08/31 15:57:11
Subject: 3D Printing and Competitive Play
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Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon
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I do wonder if 3D printing models is set to become a hobby unto itself.
Me? I love assembling kits. I find it immensely satisfying, even with swapping bits around to do even basic conversions. Yes some 3D prints are a collection of parts, but to my mind at least it’s just not quite the same.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2021/08/31 15:57:15
Subject: Re:3D Printing and Competitive Play
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Last Remaining Whole C'Tan
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At this point virtually the only things I 3D print for 40K are stuff I have designed myself that supplement existing kits: replacement turrets, guns, iconography to put on doors, stuff like that.
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lord_blackfang wrote:Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote:The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock |
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