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2021/09/03 20:47:40
Subject: Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants
"Would you like to assist in protecting Games Workshop?
We are always keen to ensure continuous improvement of our processes, so you will be involved in researching and identifying new ways for Games Workshop to approach infringing and counterfeit product removal and implementing improvements to the infringements process."
Brilliant! New assistant, no legal expertise(probably not 100% aware of what an infringement is), underpaid and instructed to find NEW ways to frag "infringements" if he wants to shine.
Brace yourself guys its going to be fun to watch this.... I would say to reviewers, content creators to simply drop GW but what do I know.
Or maybe you are reading too much into this. The advert says the new person will be part of the legal team. That team will also have lawyers.
The non-lawyer legal assistants I work with are brilliant. Still they wouldn't send out lawyerly stuff without at least a signoff.
"researching and identifying new ways for Games Workshop to approach infringing" even in the hands of brilliant assistants does not bode well for the future of anyone doing content.
If you take off your negativity glasses, it could also be a good thing. Such as, giving better guidance about where they draw the line for example so everybody knows how to continue.
Now they've withdrawn their claim against Midwinter, I can see 3 possible reasons:
1. It was an error. This is the reason given. If true, it's a good sign because they never really intended to go after this video.
2. It was not an error, but they have seen the light. Meaning, they realized that this action would generate more negatives than positives. Would be a good sign also, maybe they've learned something.
3. It was not an error and they would like to continue, but backed down after the objection because they know they would lose. Intimidation attempt by bad-faith application of this tool failed. Would be a bad sign, but I think the least likely alternative.
So tell me, what positive came out of the corporate harassment?
And to add to that tell me what good came out of the "old GW" some years ago when they started all the witch hunt and harassing companies, stores with pictures, forums, suing etc I dont need any glasses sir I have seen it all before from GW with my own eyes. Not a pretty spectacle.
Alright, how about you provide an example of what you would consider a properly copyrightable symbol?
Easy, since you're on corporate authoritarian vibes today...
Dear Sirs,
my name is Stefan Krilla. I work for Volkswagen AG section Corporate Identity/Design Wolfsburg/Germany. I was surfing through the internet, when I found a tutorial link about making the Volkswagen logo on your site.
The Volkswagen logo is a registered Trademark!!! No one is allowed to replicate it! Any offence against it will result in legal effects.
Therefore you have to delete the link “Make Volkswagen Logo – Learn an easy way to make the logo” from you list. The tutorial is submitted by “Rakker Design” in section “Drawing” (05-02-2006)
I also contacted the author and told him to delete this tutorial.
Thank you for your cooperation in this case.
Best regards.
Stefan Krilla
Corporate nazis looking to ban fan art lolz, seem familiar?
I'm sorry, I have no idea what you're trying to say here.
I gave you an example of a registered trademark as per your request that is not derivative as the imperial aquila is.
The original had the circle in a cogwheel and was "broadly based" on swastika
Now you know what broadly based looks like
Frankly, I think stacking the letters "V" and "W" inside a circle is just as derivative as the other logos you've discussed. Yes, you can recognize that specific logo as Volkswagen's, but that's exactly my point. Trademarks are simple, easy-to-recognize shapes which are almost universally either extremely simple to replicate or draw upon some recognizable symbol in human history. Unlike copyright, originality is not a defining characteristic of a trademark. Distinctiveness is.
The GW Aquila in particular is different from other Aquilas in that it's extremely sharp, minimal, and angular, especially around the wings. If you gave me a selection of aquila images and asked me which one was from Warhammer, I would be able to identify it ten times out of ten. Trademarks gain legal protection based on their distinctiveness, and the Imperial Aquila does that, regardless of whether it's derivative.
Find me ONE, just ONE stacked VW in a circle prior to volkswagen existing.
Conversely how much time do you have to go through examples of double headed eagles.
Some corporate prick has no right to tell you that you're not allowed to draw a sharp lined double eagle.
GoldenHorde wrote: Those punks at AWS lambda are stealing valve's derivative trademark zOmG!!>!>!
there should be some sort of law which prevents others from associating that symbol with things which the owners of the brand do not endorse? An interesting thought.
Quick, someone tell the Greeks that their alphabet is infringing on 'mericun trademark.
Tell them everytime they type or draw that letter they need explicit corporate permission for the 'fanart'
I'm going to draw the double headed eagle, oh noes can't do that despite the historicity of the motif.
Ofc law is perfect and has no flaws or inherent problems, you got me with that GOTCHA, right
Completely missing that trademark protection applies within specific contexts or towards types of products and services rather than giving the trademark holder ownership of the very idea used for their trademark in all contexts like you absurdly claim.
GoldenHorde wrote: Those punks at AWS lambda are stealing valve's derivative trademark zOmG!!>!>!
there should be some sort of law which prevents others from associating that symbol with things which the owners of the brand do not endorse? An interesting thought.
Quick, someone tell the Greeks that their alphabet is infringing on 'mericun trademark.
Tell them everytime they type or draw that letter they need explicit corporate permission for the 'fanart'
I'm going to draw the double headed eagle, oh noes can't do that despite the historicity of the motif.
Ofc law is perfect and has no flaws or inherent problems, you got me with that GOTCHA, right
Completely missing that trademark protection applies within specific contexts or towards types of products and services rather than giving the trademark holder ownership of the very idea used for their trademark in all contexts like you absurdly claim.
Trademark protection applies when there is a court ruling on the specific context where it is tested. The holder doesn't decide if it applies or not, and neither do you.
2021/09/03 20:53:27
Subject: Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants
Completely missing that trademark protection applies within specific contexts or towards types of products and services rather than giving the trademark holder ownership of the very idea used for their trademark in all contexts like you absurdly claim.
According to you, it was also "absurd" of me to claim that there was no plausible basis for the copyright strike GW issued that it now admits had no plausible basis.
It might be better to consider a little bit more carefully before you characterize peoples' posts as absurd. Even when it doesn't blow up in your face like it did there, it tends to escalate arguments for no real reason.
We ought to be able to discuss what one another writes without such hyperbolic adjective use and straw manning.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/03 20:55:27
2021/09/03 20:55:25
Subject: Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants
Yeah, there was no danger of actual confusion. Was it clearly riffing off GW's logo in an amusing way? Absolutely. It's not like they independently came up with the idea to use an eagle logo with wings. But it was not intended to confuse people into thinking Chapterhouse was GW.
2021/09/03 21:03:21
Subject: Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants
I should mention there's a significant political difference between copyright and trademark. Copyright is often used to increase the power of corporations, as it can under many circumstances remove competition and cultivate brand identity. Trademark almost universally benefits the consumer, as it prevents the spread of misleading or counterfeit goods. Copyright laws are bad right now, but trademark laws are great. Again, a difference.
Yeah, no. Trademark law is also in a bad state. Companies like King are able to get ridiculously broad trademarks, such as them trademarking the words "Candy" and "Saga" when used in connection to video games.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/03 21:09:24
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
2021/09/03 21:06:41
Subject: Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants
I think he's right that the concept of trademarks are less problematic from a consumer point of view than the concept of copyright. The actual implementation, however, tends to favor those with deep pockets, as almost everything in life does.
GoldenHorde wrote: Those punks at AWS lambda are stealing valve's derivative trademark zOmG!!>!>!
there should be some sort of law which prevents others from associating that symbol with things which the owners of the brand do not endorse? An interesting thought.
Quick, someone tell the Greeks that their alphabet is infringing on 'mericun trademark.
Tell them everytime they type or draw that letter they need explicit corporate permission for the 'fanart'
I'm going to draw the double headed eagle, oh noes can't do that despite the historicity of the motif.
Ofc law is perfect and has no flaws or inherent problems, you got me with that GOTCHA, right
Completely missing that trademark protection applies within specific contexts or towards types of products and services rather than giving the trademark holder ownership of the very idea used for their trademark in all contexts like you absurdly claim.
Trademark protection applies when there is a court ruling on the specific context where it is tested. The holder doesn't decide if it applies or not, and neither do you.
You claimed you can't draw something like letters of the greek alphabet or the Imperial Eagle because they're trademarked. Your specific wording was "everytime" and that "everytime" someone made use of those ideas they would need permission. You showed a wildly incorrect view of how trademarks work, were told how that was wrong, and now you've moved the goalposts.
GoldenHorde wrote: Those punks at AWS lambda are stealing valve's derivative trademark zOmG!!>!>!
there should be some sort of law which prevents others from associating that symbol with things which the owners of the brand do not endorse? An interesting thought.
Quick, someone tell the Greeks that their alphabet is infringing on 'mericun trademark.
Tell them everytime they type or draw that letter they need explicit corporate permission for the 'fanart'
I'm going to draw the double headed eagle, oh noes can't do that despite the historicity of the motif.
Ofc law is perfect and has no flaws or inherent problems, you got me with that GOTCHA, right
Completely missing that trademark protection applies within specific contexts or towards types of products and services rather than giving the trademark holder ownership of the very idea used for their trademark in all contexts like you absurdly claim.
Trademark protection applies when there is a court ruling on the specific context where it is tested. The holder doesn't decide if it applies or not, and neither do you.
You claimed you can't draw something like letters of the greek alphabet or the Imperial Eagle because they're trademarked. Your specific wording was "everytime" and that "everytime" someone made use of those ideas they would need permission. You showed a wildly incorrect view of how trademarks work, were told how that was wrong, and now you've moved the goalposts.
You show a wildly incorrect view of how flippant and sarcastic comments work,
I didn't move any goalpost. GW doesn't own double headed eagles. Not in a million years. They might own their low poly scrapbook version .
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also; adding points to a discussion =/= moving goalposts.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/03 21:13:36
2021/09/03 21:19:35
Subject: Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants
caladancid wrote: Where are all my "Games Workshop is just making these rules to have them, they won't actively go after people" bros at?
Hmm? I think people were talking about battle reports. Not 3d prints. This is expected even if it is the least tactful thing they could do about it.
Also, it looks like they're hiring an ( singular ) assistant - not an army and I'd imagine this has been a thing for GW for quite some time.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Not Online!!! wrote: Frankly this is just more of the most recent trend of GW further targetting community goodwill for no other reason then to look good to investors.
I don't think I understand how recasters promote community good will nor do I think investors give a single gak about how GW handles it's IP as long as the dividend remains up.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/09/03 21:23:17
2021/09/03 21:39:41
Subject: Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants
Actually, recasters definitely promote community goodwill at the moment, when it's impossible to get many highly desired models from GW legitimately. Recasters are working around the clock right now to supply all the Vulkite Contemptors that GW can't get its act together to produce enough of to satisfy demand. Without the recasters, there would be a ton of angry competitive players who are unable to get the models they feel they need.
2021/09/03 21:46:32
Subject: Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants
yukishiro1 wrote: Actually, recasters definitely promote community goodwill at the moment, when it's impossible to get many highly desired models from GW legitimately. Recasters are working around the clock right now to supply all the Vulkite Contemptors that GW can't get its act together to produce enough of to satisfy demand. Without the recasters, there would be a ton of angry competitive players who are unable to get the models they feel they need.
So they'll stop when the production issues are cleared?
2021/09/03 21:48:27
Subject: Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants
yukishiro1 wrote: Actually, recasters definitely promote community goodwill at the moment, when it's impossible to get many highly desired models from GW legitimately. Recasters are working around the clock right now to supply all the Vulkite Contemptors that GW can't get its act together to produce enough of to satisfy demand. Without the recasters, there would be a ton of angry competitive players who are unable to get the models they feel they need.
So they'll stop when the production issues are cleared?
Cough, cough...ummm....my guess is no.
2021/09/03 22:01:32
Subject: Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants
yukishiro1 wrote: Haha, "erroneously flagged." Manually. By an individual.
If you believe that, GW has a miniature version of a bridge they would like to sell you...
Does make their defenders look pretty silly here, though, when not even GW will stand by its own IP flagging decisions.
Hmm, but I have it on very good authority that anyone who even suggests that Games Workshop might be ramping up their copyright claims is a hateful, vitriolic, fear mongering hater who lies about Games Workshop out of spite.
2021/09/03 22:03:18
Subject: Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants
I should mention there's a significant political difference between copyright and trademark. Copyright is often used to increase the power of corporations, as it can under many circumstances remove competition and cultivate brand identity. Trademark almost universally benefits the consumer, as it prevents the spread of misleading or counterfeit goods. Copyright laws are bad right now, but trademark laws are great. Again, a difference.
Yeah, no. Trademark law is also in a bad state. Companies like King are able to get ridiculously broad trademarks, such as them trademarking the words "Candy" and "Saga" when used in connection to video games.
I'm going to be frank: I completely forgot that that happened until you mentioned it. Trademark is still far better than copyright, but in that regard, but you are entirely correct.
I didn't move any goalpost. GW doesn't own double headed eagles. Not in a million years. They might own their low poly scrapbook version .
What? Yes. That's true. You're arguing against that statement when you say that things like the Warhammer and Half-Life logos aren't or shouldn't be enforceable trademarks, or that you would get sued for drawing a lambda or an eagle.. Those companies don't own the actual symbols, but they do own their (as you put it) "scrapbook versions." I don't see the issue here.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/03 22:16:02
The issue is that GW have, even when they've actually legally owned something, historically overstepped their boundaries by some margin. They may have a very narrow ownership of a specific double-headed eagle in a specific set of circumstances, but that hasn't stopped them pursuing people utilising entirely more generic versions.
Which is the nub of the problem, not that GW is entitled to righteously and vigorously pursue the defence of their IP wherever they see fit, but that they can't be trusted to stay in their lane and only pursue that which they can legitimately claim.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
I should mention there's a significant political difference between copyright and trademark. Copyright is often used to increase the power of corporations, as it can under many circumstances remove competition and cultivate brand identity. Trademark almost universally benefits the consumer, as it prevents the spread of misleading or counterfeit goods. Copyright laws are bad right now, but trademark laws are great. Again, a difference.
Yeah, no. Trademark law is also in a bad state. Companies like King are able to get ridiculously broad trademarks, such as them trademarking the words "Candy" and "Saga" when used in connection to video games.
I'm going to be frank: I completely forgot that that happened until you mentioned it. Trademark is still far better than copyright, but in that regard, but you are entirely correct.
I didn't move any goalpost. GW doesn't own double headed eagles. Not in a million years. They might own their low poly scrapbook version .
What? Yes. That's true. You're arguing against that statement when you say that things like the Warhammer and Half-Life logos aren't or shouldn't be enforceable trademarks, or that you would get sued for drawing a lambda or an eagle.. Those companies don't own the actual symbols, but they do own their (as you put it) "scrapbook versions." I don't see the issue here.
The issue is corporate harassment based on their arbitrary interpretations of their legal entitlements.
2021/09/03 22:52:30
Subject: Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants
And to add to that tell me what good came out of the "old GW" some years ago when they started all the witch hunt and harassing companies, stores with pictures, forums, suing etc I dont need any glasses sir I have seen it all before from GW with my own eyes. Not a pretty spectacle.
The consequences for GW are lost on some people. All they see is their favorite company being attacked, so they jump to the defense without realizing that people are calling out behavior that will be destructive for Games Workshop itself in the long run.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/03 22:52:45
GoldenHorde wrote: Those punks at AWS lambda are stealing valve's derivative trademark zOmG!!>!>!
there should be some sort of law which prevents others from associating that symbol with things which the owners of the brand do not endorse? An interesting thought.
I didn't move any goalpost. GW doesn't own double headed eagles. Not in a million years. They might own their low poly scrapbook version .
You're the one who's claiming they claim to own the entire concept of a double-headed eagle in its entirety and that no one else can do anything even remotely similar regardless of the context of it, or no one can use the Lambda because of Half-life - which is absolutely not the case. You don't seem to understand that having their own specific stylized version of those elements that functions as an identifier for their own brand, services, products etc within the relevant contexts is how trademarks work and the entire purpose of them is to show the source of something and who/what it's from....
That the Lambda and Aquila are based on common things is quite irrelevant because they've been made distinct enough by being used and stylized in such a way that you can look at them and easily go "That's the Warhammer 40k logo" or "That's Half-Life's lambda".
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/09/03 23:03:51
2021/09/03 23:03:38
Subject: Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants
yukishiro1 wrote: Actually, recasters definitely promote community goodwill at the moment, when it's impossible to get many highly desired models from GW legitimately. Recasters are working around the clock right now to supply all the Vulkite Contemptors that GW can't get its act together to produce enough of to satisfy demand. Without the recasters, there would be a ton of angry competitive players who are unable to get the models they feel they need.
So they'll stop when the production issues are cleared?
Of course not. I'm not saying they're good actors. Just that it's verifiably true that at the moment the availability of recasters is promoting community goodwill because GW can't make the product available itself.
2021/09/03 23:14:48
Subject: Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants
This was not appropriate the first time, it is still not, do not advocate violence here - ingtær.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/04 09:31:20
At Games Workshop, we believe that how you behave does matter. We believe this so strongly that we have written it down in the Games Workshop Book. There is a section in the book where we talk about the values we expect all staff to demonstrate in their working lives. These values are Lawyers, Guns and Money.
2021/09/04 02:41:19
Subject: Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants
NinthMusketeer wrote: After reading the variety of informed and qualified opinions available here, I feel convinced that the sky is, in fact, still falling. Again.
Indeed. There is so much useful information here that you were able to make a post with zero value, safe in the knowledge that everything important has already been said.
You're the one who's claiming they claim to own the entire concept of a double-headed eagle in its entirety and that no one else can do anything even remotely similar regardless of the context of it, or no one can use the Lambda because of Half-life - which is absolutely not the case. You don't seem to understand that having their own specific stylized version of those elements that functions as an identifier for their own brand, services, products etc within the relevant contexts is how trademarks work and the entire purpose of them is to show the source of something and who/what it's from....
.
Stop being disingenuous and get real for a second. GW goes even further.
You don't seem to understand GW thinks it is entitled to a bubble around the imp eagle. Refer to GW vs Chapterhouse Studios where they cried for protection from this;
Imagine how ape they'd go over the cultural motif of a double headed eagle ....
Cut the crap. GW takes issue with double headed eagle motif on minis.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/09/04 03:11:15
2021/09/04 03:13:24
Subject: Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants
NinthMusketeer wrote: After reading the variety of informed and qualified opinions available here, I feel convinced that the sky is, in fact, still falling. Again.
Indeed. There is so much useful information here that you were able to make a post with zero value, safe in the knowledge that everything important has already been said.
I felt that making a post with more value than those before me would be unwarranted effort. I can see you feel the same.
