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Voss wrote:

 creeping-deth87 wrote:

 Tannhauser42 wrote:


I'm sorry, but I really had to laugh out loud at this. Using Dunkirk as an example of something not in an "established IP"? I'm pretty sure that, at this point, World War II is very well established.

I can't believe this needs to be said, but WW2 is not an intellectual property.

Obviously not, but it has been absolutely beaten to death as a topic, and reused over and over again in the most shallow and tropey ways.
Dunkirk wasn't a departure from anything, except reasonable volume control.

The issue i had with Dunkirk is more that they repeated the same scene from like several different perspectives. You know you can do that without showing literally the same events playing out 3 separate times based around different perspectives. Like you could've done it more seamlessly by showing one perspective and then keeping time flowing through. For instance if an enemy bombing run is happening on a ship you can show it from one perspective but show the next 30 seconds of that bombing run from the pilot's perspective and then show the next 45 seconds to a minute where they're freaking out on a recovery boat. I just don't know. That movie would've been solid if it didn't show the same 15 minutes repeated 3 separate times for a total of 45 mins. I realize it's a tense movie but repeating events 3 times is like that dude that tells the same unfunny joke 3 times in rapid succession or tries to jump scare you the same way 3 times in a row.

Also WW2 always bugged the crap out of me as a setting when it was over-saturated to death. WW2 shooters and movies in general have been shown and played to death. I know Russia as an enemy is more of a semi-recent thing but i feel it was never played into the ground in the way WW2 films have been esp. vs the nazis. For some reason though i always found Cold War going into WW3 is far more fun of a setting like the Wargame series. Plus it's even modern enough to have apache helicopters, stealth bombers and some seriously fun weapons rather than jeeps that probably can't go beyond 30 mph at top speed, super close ranged rocket launchers (still sorta fun in a suicidal moment of glory type of way) and only just started to have automatic weapons (meaning crappy carbines with a small stick of ammo before reload were common).

If you want good shows with well-fleshed out cast and that delves into interesting topics, I highly suggest Bojack Horseman. It covers really good topics on intergenerational trauma, depression and the fundamentals of toxic relationships while having the comedy to balance out a lot of the underlying messages with a solid story.

For more of a take on the typical superhero tropes while really bringing something new and great character development, you really can't beat Venture Bros. The best part is that even though they officially got cancelled, they're apparently going to release a movie to tie up loose ends so after you're finished you still have something to look forward to.

If you're a fan of Breaking Bad, Better Call Saul is one of the best spin-off shows I've seen in any franchise. It really manages to stand on its own while still having meaningful (and not overused) callbacks to BB, and its not a cash-grab since you legitimately give a crap with the other characters in Saul's life and how his own transformation into the sleazy lawyer in BB happens is just masterfully done.

As far as movies go, I feel like WW2 is kinda better for weird story takes moreso than any real war story given that its been done to death by classics like Saving Private Ryan and a bunch of other movies. Some of the examples is Jojo Rabbit, where you pretty much have a kid who has Hitler as his imaginary friend and its surprisingly very good as a coming of age story having WW2 as the backdrop.

Parasite (the Korean movie) is another fantastic movie and I feel like you just kinda need to take the time to explore and test out some of the shows/movies you're watching since there's just so much out there.

Some other things.

What We Do In The Shadows, the film and the series, as well as Wellington Paranormal, which is a decent comedy, albeit a very dry one.

Atlanta is a good show, sadly it only has 2 seasons.

I'm pretty put off by entertainment these days, and media generally.

Grew up on Star Wars, Star Trek, Dr. Who, and American cartoons of the 90s, along with local bands, nature documentaries and DIY shows. Common themes from that era have been replaced with something less optimistic, lots of focus on systems, heists and indicting authority. Noticed Netflix has a cottage industry going with documentaries portraying drug traffickers from the 80s in a sympathetic light.

My daughter watches YouTube and agitates for me to get her a smartphone or an iPad. Her 10-year-old cousin did a YouTube video that went viral, she wants to replicate that somehow. I notice her attention span isn't the same, I was reading novels by her age and she loses interest in most things after a few minutes. The things I used to watch would hold my attention for hours.

While there might be a glut of entertainment, there's not really a lot that inspires or nourishes an inquisitive mind. We spend more time in nature than I ever did as a kid, I just want her to have an active lifestyle and have a role for media. I don't want it to play as much of a role as it did for me. Even sports, I won't sit and watch a game anymore because I don't want to set a bad example (and, partially, because friends won't come over anymore due to lockdowns.)

Would love to have this impression challenged. Feels like I'm missing something, but I can't find it.

It has certainly become much more difficult to sift through the vast amount of entertainment on offer. Netflix is a legitimate pain to navigate and riddled with tripe, so the (once) simple act of looking for a suitable show/movie becomes a pain in the behind that frequently kills any joy of anticipation.

The OP has it right in that there is more low quality stuff out there than ever, but that's mostly because there is so much stuff period. There is also a lot of good or even great stuff out there, it's just not as easy to find as it once was.

While there might be a glut of entertainment, there's not really a lot that inspires or nourishes an inquisitive mind.

I just saw a video of a man explaining how XVIII century potters made their wares by walking round in the woods looking for wild clay.
There are at least two quality channels on YT dedicated to short, 10-15-minute animated videos about history and mythology. There's innumerable channels doing nature and science stuff. And that's just youtube. When I was growing up, it was by then painfully outdated 70's and 80's documentaries re-runs on the TV if i wanted any educational content that wasn't old, talking heads on the screen.

Even "proper" nature documentaries of today blow the old stuff out of the water in detail, scope and ability to pass on this knowledge and wonder.
Is it all sugar and candy? No, but if it were, those documentaries would be lying to you. The kids have the right to know that those wonderful animals they're watching, they probably won't be there for their kids to watch unless their parents do something right NOW.

You can complain about modern movies and shows all you want (you'd still be wrong, but that's subjective taste), but the wealth of science, nature and historical shows available both on streaming platforms and made by enthusiasts on youtube is simply unmatched. Yes, you as a parent have to make sure the Algorithm doesn't lead her to some horrid rabbitholes, but that was always the case with media.

In terms of what I watch?

There’s a definite level of “comfort food TV”. Classics from my youth, such as TNG, DS9 and stuff from yesteryear I missed first time around.

I also like learning new stuff, however useless the resulting info might be. Towsends (the video Cronch referenced above) gives me inspiration for when I go back to LARPing. FactFiend fills my head with cool but useless trivia. True Crime stuff is for bedtime. Cookery YouTube channels give me new ideas for healthier food.

With Disney+. Prime, BritBox and FITE (for AEW) I can find something to suit any particular mood or craving.

 trexmeyer wrote:
When did the last epic film come out that wasn't part of an established IP? Dunkirk? And before that? There have been barely any blockbuster-level live-action films in the last decade that weren't an adaptation or part of an otherwise established IP. Theatres are dominated by MCU, DCEU, and animated films. These movies are generally servicable, but repetitive and not for everyone.

Welcome to adulthood.
You're looking in the wrong places. You won't find new or revolutionary in "blockbuster" films. You watch smaller films that can be excellent.
Quiet Place. Malcolm and Marie. Judas and the Black Messiah. Nomadland. The Invisible Man. Promising Young Woman.

You watch TV series that are excellent. Reservation Dogs. What We Do in the Shadows. The Great. Witcher. Mindhunters. Ratched.

I'm 41 now and I don't really enjoy much entertainment anymore. Part of me feels like a grumpy nerd, but how much does one need new entertainment?

I'd rather listen to a non-fiction podcast while I puttered around working on projects than sit down and watch a made up story. Part of it is the "slickness" that modern entertainment has. It's really relatively easy to make snazzy looking stories with digital effects, but I find I enjoy stripped down, simpler, slower entertainment if I do sit down to watch something. Shows with lots of running and yelling don't appeal much to me.

As far as new fictional entertainment I've watched over the last few years that I've liked: The Orville, The Mandalorian, lots of Masterpiece shows, Wandavision, Loki, and I can't think of much else.

As far as non-fiction entertainment: Forged in Fire, Nova, Nature, Lego Masters

Now, all that being said, I absolutely love professional wresting. At it's core you have three+ people (2+ wrestlers and a ref) trying to tell a story in a ring. The documentaries and interview shows that have been done over the last few years have been great as well.

There's a lot of quality stuff out there, but more and more I'm coming to realize that my enjoyment comes not as much from what it is, but how I consume it.

Binging a show or movie or game or whatever and jettisoning it for the next just feels empty. I need the social connection around it. Walking out of a theater together and discussing what we though or discussing cliffhangers week to week while waiting for the next episode. The social aspect is in a lot of ways more meaningful than the actual entertainment.

One of the big challenges I find these days is just the relentless negativity that surrounds just about all forms of entertainment these days. It's so hard to find something to be passionate about when there is so much online effort put towards hating on everything. You can't even really hide from it, as much often than not it filters down to people you know who get caught up in the same traps.

Ultimately the best advice I can give is to keep trying new things, but try not to feel the need to complete everything you try. So many games, tv shows, games, franchises, etc these days have good hooks but mostly just want to turn themselves into a banal habit in the long run. Identifying and cutting those out is pretty key.

 Frazzled wrote:

 trexmeyer wrote:
When did the last epic film come out that wasn't part of an established IP? Dunkirk? And before that? There have been barely any blockbuster-level live-action films in the last decade that weren't an adaptation or part of an otherwise established IP. Theatres are dominated by MCU, DCEU, and animated films. These movies are generally servicable, but repetitive and not for everyone.

Welcome to adulthood.
You're looking in the wrong places. You won't find new or revolutionary in "blockbuster" films. You watch smaller films that can be excellent.
Quiet Place. Malcolm and Marie. Judas and the Black Messiah. Nomadland. The Invisible Man. Promising Young Woman.

You watch TV series that are excellent. Reservation Dogs. What We Do in the Shadows. The Great. Witcher. Mindhunters. Ratched.

List of blockbuster films that were revolutionary (not all-inclusive):

Ben-Hur
Star Wars
Alien
Aliens (IMO)
The Terminator, but T2 moreso
2001: A Space Odyssey
Jurassic Park
Indiana Jones (even though I dislike the series)
Close Encounters of the Third Kind
Titanic (don't even like it)
The Matrix
Saving Private Ryan
Apocalypse Now
LOTR Trilogy

I would say you could probably include X-Men, Spider-Man 2, Batman Begins or Dark Knight as well, since those were the first massively successful comic-book adaptations.

The problem is that modern blockbusters are literally nothing but MCU, DCEU trying to be MCU, decades-old franchises, the occasional Nolan film, or blatant cash grabs. There is too much money at stake now. Everyone wants Tres Commas. It has nothing to do with adulthood. This issue didn't exist 20 years ago.

That reminds me, I think it is time to make Apocalypse NOW!

Same story, but different setting.

Africa, maybe? 19th century?

Voss wrote:
Africa, maybe? 19th century?

I understood that reference.

I wouldn't touch that setting with a ten-foot pole if I was studio. However, the Shaka Zulu mini-series was interesting and the lead actor did a great job.

 trexmeyer wrote:

Voss wrote:
Africa, maybe? 19th century?

I understood that reference.

I wouldn't touch that setting with a ten-foot pole if I was studio. However, the Shaka Zulu mini-series was interesting and the lead actor did a great job.

I think a historical setting could be ok or even a future or fantasy setting. Thing is it'd need to be unique and most things aren't unique anymore.

Also on the subject of all these high budget movies i am wondering if 200 to 250 million as a max budget for a series would be an idea we should try. That or we could go the book to movie route. Maybe if a book is good enough we can make a movie out of it. It seems to work and i imagine there's less risk involved.

I disagree. I think series are inherently riskier from a production standpoint even if they are better as a medium. Losing a key actor, especially if they're an unknown that blows up, can really mess up a series. It's one thing if it's a short run or short seasons, but otherwise...

 trexmeyer wrote:

List of blockbuster films that were revolutionary (not all-inclusive):

Ben-Hur
Star Wars
Alien
Aliens (IMO)
The Terminator, but T2 moreso
2001: A Space Odyssey
Jurassic Park
Indiana Jones (even though I dislike the series)
Close Encounters of the Third Kind
Titanic (don't even like it)
The Matrix
Saving Private Ryan
Apocalypse Now
LOTR Trilogy

I would say you could probably include X-Men, Spider-Man 2, Batman Begins or Dark Knight as well, since those were the first massively successful comic-book adaptations.

The problem is that modern blockbusters are literally nothing but MCU, DCEU trying to be MCU, decades-old franchises, the occasional Nolan film, or blatant cash grabs. There is too much money at stake now. Everyone wants Tres Commas. It has nothing to do with adulthood. This issue didn't exist 20 years ago.

Doesn't mean the point is wrong, you are looking for something you will not find in modern blockbusters.

Watch a tv series (live action and/or animated), read books, play video games, read comics (not Marvel or DC, but there are smaller comic brands), read webcomics, watch anime, read mangas, watch youtube videos, hell even read fanfiction and/or watch fan animation.

We live in an era with absurd amount of entertainment accessible in a few clicks in a plethora of formats, from all kinds of authors. And sure you are not going to like 99.999% of them, but the remaining 0.001% is still a lot.
Just don't expect that 0.001% to simply fall on your lap, the sheer immensity of entertainment does mean digging is required. Helps if you belong to a community with similar tastes that can help you look.

I said series when in fact I meant a movie. Each movie shouldn't go too far beyond the 250 million USD threshold (probably less than that even). It just becomes far too risky.

 trexmeyer wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 trexmeyer wrote:
When did the last epic film come out that wasn't part of an established IP? Dunkirk? And before that? There have been barely any blockbuster-level live-action films in the last decade that weren't an adaptation or part of an otherwise established IP. Theatres are dominated by MCU, DCEU, and animated films. These movies are generally servicable, but repetitive and not for everyone.

Welcome to adulthood.
You're looking in the wrong places. You won't find new or revolutionary in "blockbuster" films. You watch smaller films that can be excellent.
Quiet Place. Malcolm and Marie. Judas and the Black Messiah. Nomadland. The Invisible Man. Promising Young Woman.

You watch TV series that are excellent. Reservation Dogs. What We Do in the Shadows. The Great. Witcher. Mindhunters. Ratched.

List of blockbuster films that were revolutionary (not all-inclusive):

Ben-Hur
Star Wars
Alien
Aliens (IMO)
The Terminator, but T2 moreso
2001: A Space Odyssey
Jurassic Park
Indiana Jones (even though I dislike the series)
Close Encounters of the Third Kind
Titanic (don't even like it)
The Matrix
Saving Private Ryan
Apocalypse Now
LOTR Trilogy

I'd argue there as nothiing revolutionary about Indy movies or Titanic, they were just highly refined takes on existing movie genre.
Most of the others were revolutionary in use of special effects, something that was brand new 40-20 years ago when most of those movies were made, and something that has since reached it's plateau. Studios know what works and what doesn't, and since the only reason for their existence is making money, they stick to the formula that proven to make money. Making visionary movies is risky, and that's not the job of the movie studios to be visionary, their job is to bring profit to shareholders.

tl;dr big studios funded revolutionary movies in the last 50 years because the technology shift introduced uncertainty as to what will sell. Now that uncertainty has been removed, and they're back to funding safe products with high ROI like they did in the 40s-60s.

We all ready only make movies from successful books (or material that was successful in another medium first). Almost all movies now-a-days come from some place else. It is less risky if there is all ready an audience.

This is true even of the old days. Ben-Hur was a very successful novel way before it became a movie, and then it was even made multiple times as a movie!

 Easy E wrote:
We all ready only make movies from successful books (or material that was successful in another medium first). Almost all movies now-a-days come from some place else. It is less risky if there is all ready an audience.

This is true even of the old days. Ben-Hur was a very successful novel way before it became a movie, and then it was even made multiple times as a movie!

This.

Even Sherlock Holmes was once about the same level of literature as your average comic book. All of the "prestige" gangster films out there are mostly people trying to legitimize trashy pulp novels of their youth.

There's too much self censorship in the entertainment industry.

Everybody's afraid of getting cancelled.

The studios want to get their movie shown in China.

Both these things create a lot of self-censorship.

Unlike the movies of yore, which...do tell exactly what they did that these new, cancel-wary productions don't?

I don't believe any of the blockbusters mentioned are from this Century.

The Nolan movies were ok, but...not much above ok.

Comic Book movies are pure popcorn films, to be forgotten when you finish the popcorn. Thats ok. Westerns were like that, and musicals were like that too.

Cronch wrote:
Unlike the movies of yore, which...do tell exactly what they did that these new, cancel-wary productions don't?

That would require me to veer off into politics.

I think the last blockbuster that was made for love to the art instead of to get the billions was James Cameron's Avatar.

I know many among the demographics of this board disliked it, but you cannot deny that movie was born from James Cameron's passion for film making instead of a corporation board wanting the billions (they got the billions alright, but the movie was so expensive to produce it was a very real risk).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 John Prins wrote:

Cronch wrote:
Unlike the movies of yore, which...do tell exactly what they did that these new, cancel-wary productions don't?

That would require me to veer off into politics.

I will, because the politics of movies of yore are, well politics of yore that are not really political these days.

I mean, OT Star Wars has a blatant anti-imperialist message, in particular an anti-Vietnam war theme.
LotR has Luddite themes born from Tolkien's experiences in WW1.
The Matrix is about social control, plus being a transgender allegory... ok that one is still political.
Jurassic Park deals with the dangers of unethical scientific and corporate progress.
Ellen Ripley is the first action heroine that redefined what it means to be a female lead in action films, specially in horror and sci-fi.

Modern blockbusters? they don't really bring anything new politically wise, because they have to sell in China.

No you aren't jaded, we've entered a new dark age of mainstream entertainment. It's heavily controlled by corporations and suits who treat art like it's the same as selling microwaves.

It's just a side effect of having to please so many masters during the board meetings.

 John Prins wrote:
There's too much self censorship in the entertainment industry.

Everybody's afraid of getting cancelled.

The studios want to get their movie shown in China.

Both these things create a lot of self-censorship.

This has a lot to do with it, along with the terrible remakes and franchise milking properties like Marvel/Star Wars.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:


What do all of you guys think? Do you agree or disagree with things i've said? Let me know.

Going against the board-certified psychiatrists who've decided that not liking modern entertainment is a sign of mental illness: agree with what you've said.

There certainly does seem to be a trend of mining the franchises of 20-35 years ago for reboots and rehashes. At best it is mediocre and/or boring. At worst, it is a corpo wearing the skin of your franchise while dancing to midnight rituals.

You're better off ignoring all that. Keep your canon intact and your wallet a little bit fuller.

That said, there still is some original content coming out. Some of it even makes its way to theaters. Ignore reboots, ignore 30-years-later "sequels," and you'll find it.

Because some of this did strike a cord with me, my thoughts;

I don't think I'm jaded or depressed. I think I'm just a slight step off of the mainstream audience most modern media tries to cater itself to. Modern action films make me roll my eyes. Every anime season these days is 70-80% Isekai stories that are all 99% the same as the ones from the last season. One of my favorite genres is horror and urban fantasy but most of the stuff coming out for both genres just isn't quite what I'm looking for.

Mind, I like MCU stuff, and such so I don't think I'm completely outside the stream. But I'd kill to see a well produced and executed haunted house movie that isn't garbage and there's maybe one real attempt at they every other year now. Most horror movies are cheap slasher crap or demonic possession films and neither of those really catch my fancy. True blue Lovecraftian fiction is few and far between though we've gotten a bit more of that the past few years which has been nice. I'd love something like classic TNG era Star Trek cause Discovery and Picard are not even remotely close and The Orville was banal and bland to me. The Expanse is great, but its a grittier sci-fi so it doesn't scratch the itch. All I really have is rewatching DS9 for the 80th time on Netflix.

And I don't think it's that I'm jaded (said that before).

I think there's things I want that just aren't being made right now.

It might be that what you want out of your entertainment has been pushed into a market niche and the stuff that gets all the attention and budget just isn't it. I feel like I'm just kind of stuck waiting for media trends to kind of swing back around my way. Might be why I've been so insanely productive writing the past few years. I couldn't find some of the things I wanted anywhere else so I started writing it myself.

Hollywood has never not been about making money, LOL. And actually, studios used to be vertically integrated and MORE powerful, not less. It's far easier for indy studios now than when the big 5 controlled all the theaters. The studios used to own the actors also, and the moguls that sat atop those studios controlled everything.

There's never been more -- and more independent -- content than right now. There have never been more 'voices' and 'visions' being heard and created. And if you point to the most commercial stuff...it's not even that different. As Frazz pointed out, superhero films are just Westerns with bigger budgets. Churned out factory-style just the same. And what, formula films are something new? LOL. They go back decades and decades. What do you think all those Elvis movies were? Just a marketable star with a bunch of formula written around him. Easy, quick bucks. Cha-ching.

If there's a problem with entertainment today, it's in the sheer volume of it. It's overwhelming, but also leads us to think our entertainment needs to be "perfect" and tailored for us just like our news and virtual world has become. I've certainly found myself spending half my evening navigating my streaming services to find *just* the right scratch for my itch. In that instance, I've found it's best to just pick SOMETHING and watch it. Sometimes you'll be disappointed, but sometimes you'll be surprised.