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Made in us
Member of the Ethereal Council




USA

I definitely agree that mainstream entertainment producers are too focused on big budget projects. Part of that is understandable as cameras and technology have made producing cheap films using old tricks increasingly accessible so the indie market has kind of encroached there. A big part of their risk assessments though seem needlessly focused on tying budget to return (as in, low budget + low return) when I feel like Deadpool should have proven outright that a creative passion project can produce huge returns on a small budget if they just get the right people involved.

   
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Calculating Commissar




pontiac, michigan; usa

 Blackie wrote:
 Polonius wrote:


What you mean to say is that Disney is the only company making good superhero movies in a rich shared universe that combines movies with television. That's not a monopoly, that's simply a competitive advantage.



That's not what I meant, MCU aren't good films in my opinion. I meant they have much more power and resources than other companies, that's how they have the advantage. Exactly like 40k: it isn't the only game around, it isn't probably even the better one but GW is more powerful than other companies.


Kinda like Raid Shadow Legends ? I'm admittedly not into those types of games but I hear it's like that. Man that's a story of succeeding by advertising something into oblivion compared to everybody else.

If I recall people often compare GWs current standing as bloated and massive but losing ground....or at least before new management fixed things for a few years followed by insane copyright restrictions all over again. GW sure seems to hate their fan community don't they?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/16 23:05:33


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Water-Caste Negotiator




Les Etats Unis

 Tyran wrote:
 Blackie wrote:

That's not what I meant, MCU aren't good films in my opinion. I meant they have much more power and resources than other companies, that's how they have the advantage. Exactly like 40k: it isn't the only game around, it isn't probably even the better one but GW is more powerful than other companies.


Disney isn't even the largest entertainment company, Comcast almost doubles its revenue.
Disney is big, but it exist in a very big ocean with some other very big fishes.



Comcast is a large entertainment company in the same way Games Workshop is a large magazine publisher. It's not a fair comparison by any means.

Dudeface wrote:
 Eldarain wrote:
Is there another game where players consistently blame each other for the failings of the creator?

If you want to get existential, life for some.
 
   
Made in mx
Tunneling Trygon




Mexico

 Flipsiders wrote:



Comcast is a large entertainment company in the same way Games Workshop is a large magazine publisher. It's not a fair comparison by any means.

I don't think GW is a large magazine publisher in any way.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/17 03:45:14


 
   
Made in us
Calculating Commissar




pontiac, michigan; usa

 LordofHats wrote:
I definitely agree that mainstream entertainment producers are too focused on big budget projects. Part of that is understandable as cameras and technology have made producing cheap films using old tricks increasingly accessible so the indie market has kind of encroached there. A big part of their risk assessments though seem needlessly focused on tying budget to return (as in, low budget + low return) when I feel like Deadpool should have proven outright that a creative passion project can produce huge returns on a small budget if they just get the right people involved.


I found it funnier The Joker movie had a larger net gain and less investment than the avengers movie at around the same time. I guess The Joker had the last laugh.

Which is exactly what we agree on here. You can have a great film with a much smaller budget. Sure you don't get some cool set piece battles but the first film should almost always be the cheapest one to make. That way if it fails no big loss. If it does really well then maybe step up costs a bit. Ofc i suppose sequels are doing that but they arent doing small productiins for new series.

I think I'll take frazzled advice about looking for more low budget series or movies.

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USA

The Joker is another good example. It doesn't even belong in the same league as the other DCU films. It's too fething good for the slop Warner Brothers keeps throwing out in a vein attempt to chase the MCU's success and it's good largely because it did something completely different.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/17 04:37:28


   
Made in us
Calculating Commissar




pontiac, michigan; usa

 LordofHats wrote:
The Joker is another good example. It doesn't even belong in the same league as the other DCU films. It's too fething good for the slop Warner Brothers keeps throwing out in a vein attempt to chase the MCU's success and it's good largely because it did something completely different.


It sounded like it made the tragic villain backstory popular. Note I didn't say start but merely popularized it just enough for Disney to try it more and Disney probably did it before Joker. Oddly it seems they did it right where Disney did it wrong and Disney owns the MCU.

As far as series that have gone on forever James Bond while somewhat timeless is also likely repetitive. I used to like it, then cared little for it and then now I don't know if I should watch the old movies. Many people prefer assassin Bond to the gadget and over the top villain James Bond movies.

Also on the subject of trying to copy success is that a copy often feels cheaper esp. in something with a solid story, good ideas, interesting messages and concepts. The Matrix is definitely up there ticking all those bubbles but I don't know if those same ideas can be applied and still feel interesting and new. I still feel like neo and trinity weren't the best romantic duo as far as how well they mesh together and the idea of using humans as batteries sounds horribly inefficient even if it was as part of another thing to turn them into a human battery. Still horrifying tho.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/09/17 04:55:30


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 Tyran wrote:
 Flipsiders wrote:



Comcast is a large entertainment company in the same way Games Workshop is a large magazine publisher. It's not a fair comparison by any means.

I don't think GW is a large magazine publisher in any way.


Another poster here said they recently found issues of White Dwarf for sale in Walmart, which means that the publication is larger than at least 90% of magazines sold in the United States by default.

Dudeface wrote:
 Eldarain wrote:
Is there another game where players consistently blame each other for the failings of the creator?

If you want to get existential, life for some.
 
   
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Member of the Ethereal Council




USA

I would say Joker makes a brutal and nuanced attack that both presents a complete maniac as sympathetic, while at the same time mincing no words about how they are in fact a maniac and that maniacs can be shockingly charismatic because of their madness.

Joker isn't just a tragic villain origin story. IMO, that's completely short selling Phoenix's convincing performance of a man on the cliff of insanity, flanked by crippling isolation and maliciously casual cruelty on one side, and an uncaring society on the other. The film brutally depicts the way the world both allows and fosters derangement in a certain kind of person and how this is both an individual and social tragedy. More than that, it makes multiple points of showing all the ways Arthur could have not become Joker and the ways his vulnerability itself produced the dismissals that left him floundering and stumbling into a self-detonation. I think comparisons made to Taxi Driver are very apt. It's the same kind of movie presenting many of the same themes to a new generation of movie goer but in a new shell.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/09/17 04:59:19


   
Made in us
Calculating Commissar




pontiac, michigan; usa

I always thought The Joker was in short a tragic story of mental illness and society being uncaring or even malicious to not understanding it. There's probably more to it than that but it was from his perspective. I can definitely dig movies about mental illness in some ways if they're done like Fight Club, The Joker or similar.

I suppose you kind of said that but I just saw mental disorder being the biggest obvious part of it. Rather disgusted some Saturday night live idiots were so far off point making fun of the point of it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/17 05:35:51


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Tallarook, Victoria, Australia

 LordofHats wrote:
The Joker is another good example. It doesn't even belong in the same league as the other DCU films. It's too fething good for the slop Warner Brothers keeps throwing out in a vein attempt to chase the MCU's success and it's good largely because it did something completely different.


Joker was an actual film unlike the corporate theme park franchise films

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/17 05:39:35


If you're upset when someone holds you to your own self stated standards it might just be that they are indeed selective double standards. 
   
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Y'know what has alot of good unique shows with interesting premises?
Netflix
Seriously.
They found their niche, they are not making big budget adaptations on the lvl of Amazon or apple
But they are giving smaller and more nuanced voices their chance to shine.
Centaurworld, Arlo, Troll hunters, Witcher, Queens Gambit, The Crown and so much more.

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Italy

 GoldenHorde wrote:
 LordofHats wrote:
The Joker is another good example. It doesn't even belong in the same league as the other DCU films. It's too fething good for the slop Warner Brothers keeps throwing out in a vein attempt to chase the MCU's success and it's good largely because it did something completely different.


Joker was an actual film unlike the corporate theme park franchise films


Exactly, Joker was an exception.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Y'know what has alot of good unique shows with interesting premises?
Netflix
Seriously.
They found their niche, they are not making big budget adaptations on the lvl of Amazon or apple
But they are giving smaller and more nuanced voices their chance to shine.
Centaurworld, Arlo, Troll hunters, Witcher, Queens Gambit, The Crown and so much more.


I've been a movie guy for my entire life, except the last 3-4 years, in which I basically became a tv series guy. I get the OP's feelings about entertainment and about movies I definitely feel the same. There are a lot of shows that can be watched at home that are simply amazing though, not only those from Netflix. In my opinion stories are way better written in tv series than in the movies, especially if we consider the mainstream shows (both movies and tv series). For example I loved Netflix Marvel series much more than the MCU movies, The Punisher and Daredevil in particular. The Mandalorian is considered better than any recent SW episode pretty much by everyone.

Focussing on a few tv series could be a nice suggestion for someone that is looking for new ways of spending his free time, if other sources of entertainment don't seem to do their job anymore. Worked for me.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/17 07:35:06



 
   
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I think a problem is people are just less likely to try something new or different

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 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Y'know what has alot of good unique shows with interesting premises?
Netflix
Seriously.
They found their niche, they are not making big budget adaptations on the lvl of Amazon or apple
But they are giving smaller and more nuanced voices their chance to shine.
Centaurworld, Arlo, Troll hunters, Witcher, Queens Gambit, The Crown and so much more.


Generally speaking, the main reason movies all seem to be Blockbusters these days is just that those are the experiences people feel are "worth" going to theater for. The quieter, more intimate movies have significant competition from TV that has increasingly moved towards the mini series format that is possibly better than feature length for character exploration or just direct films, which more and more don't require a Hollywood budget for similar output. Out of all the quieter films releases in a year, there may be 1, maybe 3 that have the kind of cinematography and sound design worth seeing in a theater, and sadly, most audiences have no means of identifying those films from basic television.
   
Made in us
Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces






Southeastern PA, USA

Yeah, in an era when people have home theaters with giant UHD TVs and theater-style seating -- or even just big TVs and comfy couches -- movies need to be more of an experience to get people out and paying today's prices.

Sports are having some of the same issues, FYI. Pre-COVID attendance was down in most US sports for the same basic reason. Why sit in hot or cold weather or precipitation if you can watch it at home with all those comforts around you? Personally, I think attending games is worth it...even in weather, etc. It's what makes the experience. But not everyone agrees. I'm a season ticket holder of an NFL team that doesn't even have too many attendance issues, and I'm continually getting surveys from them asking about my fan experience. The NFL is watching that stuff like a hawk.

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 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Y'know what has alot of good unique shows with interesting premises?
Netflix
Seriously.
They found their niche, they are not making big budget adaptations on the lvl of Amazon or apple
But they are giving smaller and more nuanced voices their chance to shine.
Centaurworld, Arlo, Troll hunters, Witcher, Queens Gambit, The Crown and so much more.


My main beef with Netlfix is that they have lots of shows with great premises.

Then they run most of those premises into the ground. No. I'm not bitter about October Faction. Why would I be bitter about a show that promised me monster hunting and supernatural horror and then jerked me around with a series of teenage melodrama bs that devolved into a string of tired cliches that became tired cliches 20 years ago when a couple dozen Urban Fantasy YA novels did the exact same plot but better?

The Crown is pretty great though, I'm not really that bitter I just think Netflixes produces a hell of a lot more chaffe than gems.

   
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 gorgon wrote:
Yeah, in an era when people have home theaters with giant UHD TVs and theater-style seating -- or even just big TVs and comfy couches -- movies need to be more of an experience to get people out and paying today's prices.

Sports are having some of the same issues, FYI. Pre-COVID attendance was down in most US sports for the same basic reason. Why sit in hot or cold weather or precipitation if you can watch it at home with all those comforts around you? Personally, I think attending games is worth it...even in weather, etc. It's what makes the experience. But not everyone agrees. I'm a season ticket holder of an NFL team that doesn't even have too many attendance issues, and I'm continually getting surveys from them asking about my fan experience. The NFL is watching that stuff like a hawk.


I’m not a sports fan, but have always enjoyed the atmosphere in the stadium at football matches. My Dad used to take me to see Hearts play as a kid, and occasionally visit local teams for something different to do.

Indeed most of my distaste comes from drunken idiots shouting at the screen in the pub, ruining my quiet drinkies! Though the World Cup is an exception. As are the current England team, who are thoroughly decent people.

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For me its the opposite when it comes to sports. I think it's one of the most boring things to watch on TV, yet when you're actually there in the event, its much more visceral and engaging even for a guy who hates sports like me.

I'm too late to this thread, but just my two tuppence's worth on the subject. Jaded? I hate most of the "entertainment" dross coming out these days. Its all production values and trying hard to impress, and not enough story. If cinematic entertainment wants to evolve, we need good stories.

Hanging out in art galleries and watching obscure indie movies might sound pretentious, but at least those things have some substance to them unlike the corporate entertainment media universe.
   
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I’d argue that there’s absolutely nothing wrong with pop culture brain bubblegum cinema.

To kinda quote Beavis and Butthead? If everything was arthouse and thought provoking? How we would know it for what it is?

Just because something is indy and/or arthouse does not meant it’s good, at all. Rather too much is simply pretentious nonsense for the sake of being pretentious.

Like modern art, I don’t have the time, or want to spend the time, riddling out “but what does it actually mean?”. I want to be entertained.

That could be a really solidly made film with no flaws the man in the street would be bothered about. It could be a deliberately or unintentionally crap B-Movie. If it invests my attention, whether I’m laughing with it or at it, it’s done it’s job, however unintentional.

I’ve seen arthouse stuff, I’ve seen indy stuff. And for my tastes it’s entirely too far up it’s own arse for its own good.

Some of it is very good, and serves to genuinely entertain. But if, like much of modern art, it requires a self appointed “connoisseur” of the genre to explain it to me? It’s not art. It’s crap. Especially given such explanations seem to come with a hefty amount of condescension. As if the whole point is for people who at least pretend to “get it” to have the chance to talk down to people who watched it and wondered “what the heck was that rubbish about!”


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Let’s use Robocop as an example.

As a kid from that era (though much too young to have seen it), it was just a glorious hyper violent gun fest.

As I’ve grown, learned and matured? I can see the sharp as you like satire behind it all. The American Jesus. The snappy dialogue (Emil encountering Robocop, freaking out because “we killed you man, you’re dead” and Murphy’s tagline of “dead or alive, you’re coming with me” being gloriously inverted.

Like Starship Troopers, it’s an excellent form of satire, because you don’t need to get the joke to enjoy the film. You want to see it solely as a daft but well made action film? You’ll get s daft but well made action flick. But. If you care to scratch the surface? There’s a whole rabbit hole of stuff to explore and discuss.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/22 18:09:50


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Canada

Hopefully Disney's reign of terror ends soon so we can get back to it

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Oh bless your little cotton socks.

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Myrtle Creek, OR

Lordofhats said. “ …My main beef with Netlfix is that they have lots of shows with great premises…”

Agreed with that being a trend with many services. Seeing trailers all the time for what looks like a cool movie only to find they’re going to drag 2 hours worth of idea into a full season.
   
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USA

That's a whole other kettle of fish for me.

I think I really only started to comprehend it because of fanfiction of all things, but some ideas just don't have the gas to go longer than X amount of time. Trying to drag them out actually ends up feeling even worse than padding.

I don't think Netflix shows necessarily strike me as overstaying their welcomes, but many other things do. A good example are the 'dream' seasons of Archer which frankly could have been fun 1 off episodes of movie specials. As seasons, I was sick of them before the first was even halfway over.

For Netflix, my issue is how incredibly predictable the formula is. They'll start with a great opening 3-5 episodes that are great or interesting. Then the second half of the season hits and the entire story derails following some lesser subplot for far long than is needed. Which actually sounds like the 'this idea wasn't can't run this long and stay interesting' complaint now that I say it. So I guess that is the issue.

To use October Faction again, it had a great premise. Then it spent 3 whole episodes derailing its primary plot to remind us all that high school sucks, teenagers are donkey-caves, being gay involves a lot of prejudicial pricks and challenges, and a whole lot of absolutely nothing about the primary plot going on. Every single one of those sub-plots overstayed their welcome or remained the focus of the show for entirely too long. It happens too often in Netflix shows and it's definitely soured me. 13 Reasons why didn't need a second or a third season. Both seasons were basically nothing but this issue, but with multiple agonizingly depressing sub-plots that made me hate the entire show and wonder if it was trying to become infamous by encouraging someone to kill themselves after watching it or something. They went way out of their way to make that show soullessly and oppressively dark it boggled my mind. And when it wasn't, it was just wall to wall cringe.

There's a way to balance main plot and sub-plot and Netflix still hasn't figured it out. All they can do is run a main-plot and then throw a stop sign in front of it for multiple episodes while a side-plot resolves in far more time than was remotely necessary.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/09/29 00:07:32


   
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I am really getting tired of "the back story" episode that tells us the backstory of each and every side character.

No one cares.

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With Netflix, the beef for me is the noise to signal ratio, and a somewhat rubbish algorithm for recommending stuff.

For instance, I like my Sci-Fi, noir drama and Horror. Those are my staples, but other genres remain welcome to try my tastebuds.

But….Bollywood just isn’t my bag. Nothing against the genre or the industry, but given I’ve never watched any on Netflix, it sure did like to recommend it to me.

Plus I find some of their programming to be exploitative, such as any reality TV which relies on “characters” to drive the show. Sure that’s not solely Netflix’s preserve (I tried Hardcore Pawn on Prime the other day. Yeah, sure. Let’s just film and poke fun at people with obvious mental health issues. That’s fine!).

The stuff that is worth watching is so minimal compared to the mountain of absolute crap. This is why I ditched Netflix, especially after their monthly price kept on creeping up.

Prime has similar issues of course, but I find it a better channel for my own tastes.

Revisiting the Reality TV thing? That entire genre needs to get in a bin, get on fire and then get in the sea. Horrific exploitative nasty rubbish that it is. Victorians would go to freak shows and poke the “exhibits”. Us modern day folk gawk at them and encourage them to ever greater lows of shameless self exploitation, before abandoning them the second the next performing monkey proves even less mentally stable. Though I should stress I am not having a go at the people who turn up on those shows - it’s the companies exploiting them that my beef lies with.

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 Easy E wrote:
I am really getting tired of "the back story" episode that tells us the backstory of each and every side character.

No one cares.


One thing I really love about Worm (the web-novel) is how you can infer so much about its vast cast of side-characters largely without knowing every detail of their background. A great deal about them can readily and easily be inferred from their actions, behaviors, and the in-universe power mechanics. It's a technique I think most writers would kill to have mastery of and would really benefit us if more media made use of it. Indeed, we do not need to know the origin story of everything. Point of fact, the origin story for most things is probably not that interesting. A good example is in Way of the House Husband, where we're never really told how Tatsu and Miku ended up together and it's probably for the best because the humor comes from the premise and no origin story would ever adequately explain or enhance it.

   
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Myrtle Creek, OR

Reality TV is well depicted in the Mitchell and Webb Gift Shop sketch (available on YouTube).

   
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pontiac, michigan; usa

I dunno. Maybe media just isn't that good anymore or at least for my tastes.

This game kinda interests me. People said it's like The Expanse in computer game form.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=falling+frontier

I might also watch the new Dune movie. Also heard the latest James Bond movie wasn't too bad but you can only push James Bond so much. At least it isn't the millionth version of a horror movie franchise. Thank god i hate horror. I prefer psychological things more anyway. Action and comedy can be good. I'm really unsure what i'd want to watch next.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/05 23:25:12


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Canada

Just watch Platoon over and over again. Modern cinema sucks.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/06 03:13:52


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