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I don't think I'm getting my point across very well.
If all or even most Eldar units go up in points because of of all these rumoured buffs, you will have less vs your opponent.
If I play higher points, my opponent gets that many more points too.
The REAL problem is that GW does not have a good track record for assigning appropriate points to this.
They will either:
A) not increase the points enough so all these buffs will create OP Eldar lists, just like 7th ed Eldar or
B) increase the points TOO much (either to start with or as an over reaction to part A.) and make Eldar armies disproportionately outnumbered by even Space Marine lists.
Eldar may be few in number and superior to regular humans, but that doesn't always translate well in-game
This is all speculation and in good fun, of course, but it's something to think about
On a large enough table, with speed and cover effective, numbers aren’t everything. On a postage stamp kitchen table, yeah, like playing pogs with fewer pogs.
And yet, most of plastic custode range is pretty much invalidated in 40k by ugly, pay to win FW gak (I especially like termies with eye lenses so wide the user must be seeing with ears). Go figure
Really, wraithseer (and all resin custodes) should be just upgrade options to plastic minis, not their own units, but otherwise the same datasheets (like ogryn bodyguard or GK walker HQ). That way players wouldn't be gatekeeped by FW availability and could choose it they want to convert plastics or get 'official' resin model.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I'm still debating whether that second part is required for balance or not. There's an argument to be made that reducing to 0 damage increases the design space, and allows you to show that certain types of units are immune to certain types of weapons (ie. Landraiders vs Laspistols).
Certainly, and that's why MuH uSr whining so prevalent in certain threads here is so dumb. There is place for several durability rules, depending on unit, to better balance them. It's almost as if 'bespoke' rules actually had a (GASP!) point
Also, why would a Land Raider be immune to laspitols anyway? You can still destroy tracks/optics/guns with it no problem. There is little functional difference between mission killed tank that withdrawn (or was abandoned) and the one that was killed for real in the game, but people for some reason always cling to one interpretation as if they didn't get the point of abstraction in rules.
What? Yeah, ok… sure, hand guns were disabling tanks all through the twentieth century. No problem? Explains why Saving Private Ryan ended the way it did, they were TRYING to get Tom Hanks’ pistol to that bridge, to stop the armor.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/23 03:19:04
GW usually lets the new codex updates be a bit or a lot OP so I doubt our points will go up dramatically. Even if they went up a bit the quality of our forces is getting big boosts. Sounds like they’re putting a lot of effort into this refresh. I am optimistic.
jeff white wrote: On a large enough table, with speed and cover effective, numbers aren’t everything. On a postage stamp kitchen table, yeah, like playing pogs with fewer pogs.
So, the official size GW wants you to be playing all games nowadays, eh?
"Tabletop games are the only setting when a body is made more horrifying for NOT being chopped into smaller pieces."
- Jiado
warpedpig wrote: GW usually lets the new codex updates be a bit or a lot OP so I doubt our points will go up dramatically. Even if they went up a bit the quality of our forces is getting big boosts. Sounds like they’re putting a lot of effort into this refresh. I am optimistic.
Based on what? Zero reliable info on new rules so far.
warpedpig wrote: GW usually lets the new codex updates be a bit or a lot OP so I doubt our points will go up dramatically. Even if they went up a bit the quality of our forces is getting big boosts. Sounds like they’re putting a lot of effort into this refresh. I am optimistic.
Based on what? Zero reliable info on new rules so far.
You can speculate based on any information, the veracity of it doesn't matter. Although the eldar vs chaos box seems to be on the cards.
23rd:
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/23 09:30:15
Those stats are very much in line with what I'd expect the avatar to be, assuming a greater daemon sized model. Bring it on!
The aura bit also seems to indicate aspect warriors will all get core.
Crafter91 wrote: Very much hoping it isn't from that Rumour Engine preview that appeared a while back though... not a huge fan of blood being molded into a sculpt.
Agreed, even though it's a core part of the lore for Khaine. Should be easy enough to file down, though.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/23 09:57:46
If there's ever been a straighter line to add something to a sculpt, I don't know what it is.
I have to admit that the sculpt I like most of the avatar is still the original metal one, though. To me it has much more character than the FW one or the many other substitutes I've seen so far.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/12/23 10:03:10
jeff white wrote: On a large enough table, with speed and cover effective, numbers aren’t everything. On a postage stamp kitchen table, yeah, like playing pogs with fewer pogs.
So, the official size GW wants you to be playing all games nowadays, eh?
When and if we ever have a place to live, our own again, I want an 8x4 and will use modified 2nd or centimeters instead of inches and I want to try Prohammer too. Smaller point games like 500 to750 on a 4x4 with standard force org might be interesting, with some restrictions. Postage stamp, not for me, no interest in gaming next to my kitchen counter, anyways…
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/23 10:04:12
There's enough evidence in just about every 9th codex released so far that initially a bunch of stuff will be OP. Some things will be too cheap, some things that were really popular will be pointed or nerfed out of favour so people buy new stuff etc. Its all standard practice and history has repeated itself through several 9th codexes already.
You're also all assuming all these rumoured new plastic aspect kits will have the same weapon options as current meaning you can use your current models without having to buy more lol.
How would they sell Eldar players that have been using the same models for 20+ years new plastic if they keep the options the same?
If I were looking at it from a business point of view rather than an IP/hobby one changing the gear options on models this old makes absolute sense. Otherwise, they spend all this time and money refreshing the models/rules, etc. and nobody buys anything. Similar story as the Primaris releases, but on a smaller scale. I don't expect Parimaris-levels of revamping.
And if these rumours are anything to go by there's even less indication that huge wargear changes are afoot. Most of what we've seen seems in line with current model options, just dialed up. I would just be cautious about expecting to use all your decades old models without any incentive to buy new stuff.
I like the sound of that Avatar. It's a shame we can't retcon a bunch of other Eldar god's avatars into the game. Or just make the Phoenix lords much more impactful game-wise. I mean there's a greater daemon for each chaos god + character versions that are huge signature units Eldar needs something shiny.
I'm also a little confused by the current advent rumour mill teasers, all those chaos teases look very Khornate which supports what the rumoured Eldar vs chaos box includes, but what's the lore behind this? I mean Khorne doesn't need much reason to get involved in any fight...but Eldar? There's always some long-term agenda.
If there's ever been a straighter line to add something to a sculpt, I don't know what it is.
I guess just call it personal preference; I would rather paint the blood on myself and have some creative freedom as to where and how much it's applied.
Huge drips like the ones shown on the preview don't look close to realistic on a models arm - I know realism isn't what everybody goes for, but I try to adhere to it with effects like blood.
if you can imaging your own hand being drenched in blood, there wouldn't be big globs of it. It would be lots of smaller streams running down your arm, which is far easier to apply with a paintbrush.
That's my 2 cents though. Appreciate not everyone will agree.
Sounds like it’s what we needed. Faster movement. Hits way harder. Damaged halted. 4++. It’s going to get some work done. At 270 points it’s very reasonable a cost as well. The real strength of the army will come from all the special rules. What is core. What isn’t. How will all these new models and rules synergistically work together. I am optimistic Eldar will be stomping the other factions hard for a while and then get toned back down a notch to make them formidable but not OP
Octovol wrote: There's enough evidence in just about every 9th codex released so far that initially a bunch of stuff will be OP. Some things will be too cheap, some things that were really popular will be pointed or nerfed out of favour so people buy new stuff etc. Its all standard practice and history has repeated itself through several 9th codexes already.
You're also all assuming all these rumoured new plastic aspect kits will have the same weapon options as current meaning you can use your current models without having to buy more lol.
How would they sell Eldar players that have been using the same models for 20+ years new plastic if they keep the options the same?
If I were looking at it from a business point of view rather than an IP/hobby one changing the gear options on models this old makes absolute sense. Otherwise, they spend all this time and money refreshing the models/rules, etc. and nobody buys anything. Similar story as the Primaris releases, but on a smaller scale. I don't expect Parimaris-levels of revamping.
And if these rumours are anything to go by there's even less indication that huge wargear changes are afoot. Most of what we've seen seems in line with current model options, just dialed up. I would just be cautious about expecting to use all your decades old models without any incentive to buy new stuff.
I like the sound of that Avatar. It's a shame we can't retcon a bunch of other Eldar god's avatars into the game. Or just make the Phoenix lords much more impactful game-wise. I mean there's a greater daemon for each chaos god + character versions that are huge signature units Eldar needs something shiny.
I'm also a little confused by the current advent rumour mill teasers, all those chaos teases look very Khornate which supports what the rumoured Eldar vs chaos box includes, but what's the lore behind this? I mean Khorne doesn't need much reason to get involved in any fight...but Eldar? There's always some long-term agenda.
Right now, I am only aware of three Aspect units rumored to get new kits (Hawks, Spiders, Spears). Also, looking back at Banshees which was pretty much a plastic version of old models. I expect the Exarch models to have some new options we currently don't have models for, but the basic armament will most likely stay the same. Heck, I still use RT era Reapers and Scorpions in my current armies.
I do anticipate base size to increase for Aspect Warriors to mirror current Banshees.
No earth shattering, thought provoking quote. I'm just someone who was introduced to 40K in the late 80's and it's become a lifelong hobby.
GW has been liking their 28s for newer human-ish sized models and as much as I hate it, it does work. The new Banshees or Incubi on 25s would be just a smidge too tight.
Most people don't want to do that.
Plus the game functions noticeably worse at higher (and lower) point values. The 'oppressive firepower just removes large chunks of the battlefield' gets magnified, and you're even further away from a reasonable game.
GW still mostly tests at around 1500 points, and the further you move away from that, the further constraints on the FOC, table size, etc break.
Octovol wrote: There's enough evidence in just about every 9th codex released so far that initially a bunch of stuff will be OP. Some things will be too cheap, some things that were really popular will be pointed or nerfed out of favour so people buy new stuff etc. Its all standard practice and history has repeated itself through several 9th codexes already.
You're also all assuming all these rumoured new plastic aspect kits will have the same weapon options as current meaning you can use your current models without having to buy more lol.
How would they sell Eldar players that have been using the same models for 20+ years new plastic if they keep the options the same?
If I were looking at it from a business point of view rather than an IP/hobby one changing the gear options on models this old makes absolute sense. Otherwise, they spend all this time and money refreshing the models/rules, etc. and nobody buys anything. Similar story as the Primaris releases, but on a smaller scale. I don't expect Parimaris-levels of revamping.
And if these rumours are anything to go by there's even less indication that huge wargear changes are afoot. Most of what we've seen seems in line with current model options, just dialed up. I would just be cautious about expecting to use all your decades old models without any incentive to buy new stuff.
I like the sound of that Avatar. It's a shame we can't retcon a bunch of other Eldar god's avatars into the game. Or just make the Phoenix lords much more impactful game-wise. I mean there's a greater daemon for each chaos god + character versions that are huge signature units Eldar needs something shiny.
I'm also a little confused by the current advent rumour mill teasers, all those chaos teases look very Khornate which supports what the rumoured Eldar vs chaos box includes, but what's the lore behind this? I mean Khorne doesn't need much reason to get involved in any fight...but Eldar? There's always some long-term agenda.
Right now, I am only aware of three Aspect units rumored to get new kits (Hawks, Spiders, Spears). Also, looking back at Banshees which was pretty much a plastic version of old models. I expect the Exarch models to have some new options we currently don't have models for, but the basic armament will most likely stay the same. Heck, I still use RT era Reapers and Scorpions in my current armies.
I do anticipate base size to increase for Aspect Warriors to mirror current Banshees.
The advent rumour engine includes a striking scorpion blade, either its a revamp of the scoprions themselves or it's Kharandras or an Autarch with a biting blade or something.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/23 17:07:36
Sterling191 wrote: GW has been liking their 28s for newer human-ish sized models and as much as I hate it, it does work. The new Banshees or Incubi on 25s would be just a smidge too tight.
I (finally) finished painting my Eldar army early last year but they are still on the 25mm bases. Gonna be a pain to re-base them but i do have some awesome looking resin bases to stick them all on now. Perhaps that can be my project for next year
Space Wolves - Alpha Legion - Biel-Tan - Reikland - Lizardmen of Hexoatl - Slaaneshi Daemons
the rule that you always wound on a 6 makes tanks and big monsters useless, even more when you play agains an opponent that is alway throwing so manny sixes that he kills you tank with bolters
full compagny of bloodangels, 5000 pnt of epic bloodangels
5000 pnt imperial guard
5000 pnt orks
2500 pnt grey knights
5000 pnt gsc
5000 pnts Chaos legionars
4000 pnt tyranids
4000 pnt Tau
I do recall Jetbike Eldar Saim Hann style armies being super powerful an edition or two ago. Can't really recall the same for an Aspect Warrior based army with the exception of spamming as many Dark Reapers as possible.
The issue Biel-Tan has at least the way i run my force (lots of different types of Aspect Warriors) is that with so many different types of units they aren't all going to fall into the OP category meaning the army always tends to balance out. Probably my own fault though given that's the way i like to play them.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/23 21:24:31
Space Wolves - Alpha Legion - Biel-Tan - Reikland - Lizardmen of Hexoatl - Slaaneshi Daemons
Adeptus Mechanicus 
Tyranids 
Ultramarines, 3rd Co. and friends, 16k+ 
4k 
Competition Index
6000+ Order. Unity. Obedience.
Thousand Sons 4000+