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The new Shuriken Cannon profile is going to rock.....Until they start giving all Marines 3W and a 4++.
The power creep is getting pretty crazy. But fingers crossed it should be a while until they bump the marine statline. We’d get another blanket rule on top first. Or another reset.
Eh. Drukhari got similar treatment and no one uses it. Maybe it will be different for Eldar with the shuriken rule.
Sigh.
No, Dark Eldar didn't get the same treatment.
The Splinter Cannon was Range 36" Rapid Fire 3 S- AP0 D1 Poison 4+
It was changed to Range 36" Heavy 3 S- AP-1 D2 Poison 4+.
IOW, unlike the Shuriken Cannon, it got D2 but lost half its shots in the process (making it no better against Marines and worse against anything with an odd number of wounds or -1D). So all it really netted was AP-1.
Oh and it's now significantly worse for Infantry as they're unable to move and fire it without penalty. And Dark Eldar aren't exactly meant to play stationary lists.
Bear in mind also that the Splinter Cannon was already a bad weapon. It had a lot of shots but wounded infantry on 4s and vehicles on 6s. And gaining a mere -1 AP (as the extra damage is countered by the halving of its shots) is nowhere near enough to change that.
Now contrast that with the Shuriken Cannon or even the Heavy Bolter - both of which wound most infantry on 3s and vehicles on 5s, yet neither lost any shots in the transition to D2.
Exactly. Shuriken Cannon is a straight buff, and getting D2 means the Star Cannon is going to get an even bigger buff.
Not quite, the starcannon stat is already out. 2 shots, S7 AP-3 D2. It basically just received a single pip of strength.
I don't know. The 2nd part of Battle Focus just feels pointless.
The Black Adder wrote: I'd have actually liked it to be possible to Battle Focus back into a transport. It would have provided a different flavour of transport based shenanigans to the harlequin and dark eldar's long move and charge/ shoot. Jumping back into your shielded transport seems like exactly the sort of thing eldar should be doing.
NO! No fething way. They were able to do this with a strat. or a psychihc power (I do not recall which at the moment) in 8th edition and it was a major problem. It got FAQ'ed right the hell out of the game.
alextroy wrote: And games against Aeldari slow to a crawl...
Only if the Aeldari player sucks. A good player will know exactly what they want to do with each units Battle Focus move when they initially move in the Move phase.
So after each unit shoots, a quick d6 roll and further move should NOT add but a few seconds to a turn.
If it takes longer than that, they are either really inexperienced or intentionally slow playing you.
Aside from large Guardian units, CWE have mostly small, easy to resolve units. Heck, even Guardians would be easy to resolve since you would only pop the 1-2 Heavy weapons out to shoot then D6 them back.
What I wanna know now is if BIKE still have auto 6" for Advance, does that also mean an auto 6" for a BF move?
If so, Windriders might actually have a purpose again.
And Shroud Runners would be annoying as hell
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/02/03 15:39:11
My main issue with move shoot move is the time it’s going to take to shuffle all the models around. With the random d6 movement I don’t think there are going to be a lot of pop up attacks where you can totally hide again. Will be nice to help dictate the range of the fight, but the randomness will make it hard to exploit.
There might be strats that can impact it. Would expect an auto-6 for a CP. but that’s one unit a turn.
Nevelon wrote: My main issue with move shoot move is the time it’s going to take to shuffle all the models around. With the random d6 movement I don’t think there are going to be a lot of pop up attacks where you can totally hide again. Will be nice to help dictate the range of the fight, but the randomness will make it hard to exploit.
There might be strats that can impact it. Would expect an auto-6 for a CP. but that’s one unit a turn.
If I may slightly flip that. I don’t think we’ll see many pop-up attacks relying on a high withdrawal move.
If a small unit, say Fire Dragons can meander a couple of inches out of cover and into view and blast something? They’ve got a decent chance of making it back out of LoS. Whereas someone not really thinking it through and gambling for a 6” withdrawal to save them is most likely to get caught with their trousers down.
It also allows to scuttle out of one bit of terrain, shoot, then scuttle on to the next.
Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?
Nevelon wrote: My main issue with move shoot move is the time it’s going to take to shuffle all the models around. With the random d6 movement I don’t think there are going to be a lot of pop up attacks where you can totally hide again. Will be nice to help dictate the range of the fight, but the randomness will make it hard to exploit.
There might be strats that can impact it. Would expect an auto-6 for a CP. but that’s one unit a turn.
BIKES may have auto 6" BF, which would make sense as they have auto 6" if they Advance instead.
It would make Windriders and Shroud runners annoying. Maybe even Shining Spears since the Exarch can get a Shuriken cannon and Catapults are rumored to be 18" (has that been confirmed?)
Regarding Shuricannons vs Star cannons: I'm hoping that they cost the same as Scatter lasers. If all 3 cost the same, they seem evenly matched.
Sure both Shuricannons and Star cannons will be D2, but Star cannons will have S7 and AP3 all the time. That will make a difference against T6/7 targets that have decent saves.
But if Star cannons are more expensive than Shuricannons, the choice is clear.
Nevelon wrote: My main issue with move shoot move is the time it’s going to take to shuffle all the models around. With the random d6 movement I don’t think there are going to be a lot of pop up attacks where you can totally hide again. Will be nice to help dictate the range of the fight, but the randomness will make it hard to exploit.
There might be strats that can impact it. Would expect an auto-6 for a CP. but that’s one unit a turn.
If I may slightly flip that. I don’t think we’ll see many pop-up attacks relying on a high withdrawal move.
If a small unit, say Fire Dragons can meander a couple of inches out of cover and into view and blast something? They’ve got a decent chance of making it back out of LoS. Whereas someone not really thinking it through and gambling for a 6” withdrawal to save them is most likely to get caught with their trousers down.
It also allows to scuttle out of one bit of terrain, shoot, then scuttle on to the next.
I agree, there are a ton of shenanigans going to be pulled with this. But I don’t think there are going to be a lot of game-breaking ones.
oni wrote: I don't know. The 2nd part of Battle Focus just feels pointless.
Either gives you a chance to move back behind obscuring or into light cover, or move into range, fire and then move back.
Yeah, I get the theoretical application. Knowing only this rule without unit context makes it difficult to see how it will be reliable enough to be used practically, it's a random D6 movement. With the reduction in table size, weapon range is almost never a concern, so I suppose it's just fun, which I can definitely support.
I do wish we could get away from units rolling one or more d6s to determine how far they can move.
blood reaper wrote: I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote: GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
What I wanna know now is if BIKE still have auto 6" for Advance, does that also mean an auto 6" for a BF move?
If so, Windriders might actually have a purpose again.
And Shroud Runners would be annoying as hell
-
The thing is, shurican cannon is now Heavy so will not be able to advance and fire with the bikes, unless they either have a rule to ignore it, or use a strat, saim hann trait(?) to do so. I'm assuming Harlies might get an exception here otherwise that's going to slow them down a bit with all transports and bikes now carrying heavy weapons, especially since they seem to be keeping their advance and charge.
Not sure on auto BF, that might be interesting (could see it as a strat) but I wouldn't expect it to be a rule.
Move shoot move has to be up there with the most toxic mechanics 40k's ever had. This is going to be massively abused and be incredibly un-fun to play against.
Tyel wrote: Move shoot move has to be up there with the most toxic mechanics 40k's ever had. This is going to be massively abused and be incredibly un-fun to play against.
Violent Fish of Fury flashbacks
"Tabletop games are the only setting when a body is made more horrifying for NOT being chopped into smaller pieces."
- Jiado
What I wanna know now is if BIKE still have auto 6" for Advance, does that also mean an auto 6" for a BF move?
If so, Windriders might actually have a purpose again.
And Shroud Runners would be annoying as hell
-
The thing is, shurican cannon is now Heavy so will not be able to advance and fire with the bikes, unless they either have a rule to ignore it, or use a strat, saim hann trait(?) to do so. I'm assuming Harlies might get an exception here otherwise that's going to slow them down a bit with all transports and bikes now carrying heavy weapons, especially since they seem to be keeping their advance and charge.
Not sure on auto BF, that might be interesting (could see it as a strat) but I wouldn't expect it to be a rule.
No one should care about Advancing and Firing Shuricannons. You want to use the second ability from Battle Focus, which says nothing about Heavy weapons or not.
So *if* Bikes get auto-6" Advance and BF move (which I highly suspect they will) than you move up to 16", fire your weapons and then move 6" behind terrain.
Eldar Jetbikes had this rule for YEARS (since at lease 4th ed if not earlier) before 8th took it away.
It wasn't considered "broken" until 7th ed, when Windriders got access to Scatter lasers on every bike (instead of just 1 Shuricannon per 3).
Considering things are far more tanky (because so many weapons are so killy), returning the Move-shoot-move to Bikes shouldn't be even half as broken as 7th.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/02/03 18:21:45
Tyel wrote: Move shoot move has to be up there with the most toxic mechanics 40k's ever had. This is going to be massively abused and be incredibly un-fun to play against.
Eh, maybe. I don't think it'll be too bad because it's a random D6 move. It's just switching the Advance move to be after shooting. So, not gaining additional ground and no guarantee they'll get into/behind terrain. I think the worst of it will be slowing the game down. I can definitely see this mechanic adding a significant amount of time to the game over the course of 5 turns.
Tyel wrote: Move shoot move has to be up there with the most toxic mechanics 40k's ever had. This is going to be massively abused and be incredibly un-fun to play against.
Eh, maybe. I don't think it'll be too bad because it's a random D6 move. It's just switching the Advance move to be after shooting. So, not gaining additional ground and no guarantee they'll get into/behind terrain. I think the worst of it will be slowing the game down. I can definitely see this mechanic adding a significant amount of time to the game over the course of 5 turns.
While I'm certainly in the camp that this change isn't broken, we need people to stop using the D6 random as the reason. We haven't seen the whole codex yet and there's VERY likely to be ways/units that do not roll, but just get a flat 6" (most likely all BIKE units for example).
So there is very likely going to be lists that are designed to abuse this mechanic.
That said, I actually don't think Battle Focus will be THE reason Eldar become top-tier again. If they do, it will be because of improved weapon stats and other wonky mechanics powers, strats and Strands of fate
I’d definitely be wary of allowing the Eldar player to set up the terrain though (yes this is a joke)
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also. Someone please talk me out of buying an Eldar army.
Please.
Every time someone tries to talk me out of something I end up wanting it even more (eg all the hate on the Direwolf has me wanting one all the more!)
So I'm not going to tell you not to build an Eldar Army. Freaking go for it!
However if you want to make a more financially safe choice for yourself that will stop you building the army, I've a perfect solution.
Just send me your disposable income for the next 2-3 months over the Eldar release window. I'll thus able able to start an Eldar army and you won't. Instantly you'll be saved the burden of continued expenses and it will just cost you your disposable income for 2-3 months! That's just what you'd lose on Eldar anyway, but this way you won't have the guilt, the continued purchases nor the overarching pressure of the increased "to be built" pile. I'll take on all those horrible obligations on your behalf.
Overread wrote: Every time someone tries to talk me out of something I end up wanting it even more (eg all the hate on the Direwolf has me wanting one all the more!)
That... Sounds like an unhealthy amount of contrarianism.
Every time someone tries to talk me out of something I end up wanting it even more (eg all the hate on the Direwolf has me wanting one all the more!)
Overread, for the love of the Omnissiah, you don't want that Direwolf. Even if Forgeworld paid me £50 to have one on the house, I'd still tell them to take a walk.
Overread wrote: Every time someone tries to talk me out of something I end up wanting it even more (eg all the hate on the Direwolf has me wanting one all the more!)
That... Sounds like an unhealthy amount of contrarianism.
Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.
Kanluwen wrote: This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.
Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...
tneva82 wrote: You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling.
- No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something...
Every time someone tries to talk me out of something I end up wanting it even more (eg all the hate on the Direwolf has me wanting one all the more!)
Overread, for the love of the Omnissiah, you don't want that Direwolf. Even if Forgeworld paid me £50 to have one on the house, I'd still tell them to take a walk.
Its THAT friggin bad.
So.............. now I need 2
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/02/03 20:56:15
Every time someone tries to talk me out of something I end up wanting it even more (eg all the hate on the Direwolf has me wanting one all the more!)
Overread, for the love of the Omnissiah, you don't want that Direwolf. Even if Forgeworld paid me £50 to have one on the house, I'd still tell them to take a walk.
Its THAT friggin bad.
So.............. now I need 2
You don't seem to understand how unbelievably horrible that thing looks.
You obviously need four.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/02/03 21:12:57
I have not bought anything from GW in ages, how has the scale creep been? For example, how much bigger are the plastic Krieg guys compared to the Cadians etc? Just wondering how the new stuff may fit with the old.
.Only a fool believes there is such a thing as price gouging. Things have value determined by the creator or merchant. If you don't agree with that value, you are free not to purchase.
alextroy wrote: And games against Aeldari slow to a crawl...
Only if the Aeldari player sucks. A good player will know exactly what they want to do with each units Battle Focus move when they initially move in the Move phase.
So after each unit shoots, a quick d6 roll and further move should NOT add but a few seconds to a turn.
If it takes longer than that, they are either really inexperienced or intentionally slow playing you.
Aside from large Guardian units, CWE have mostly small, easy to resolve units. Heck, even Guardians would be easy to resolve since you would only pop the 1-2 Heavy weapons out to shoot then D6 them back.
What I wanna know now is if BIKE still have auto 6" for Advance, does that also mean an auto 6" for a BF move?
If so, Windriders might actually have a purpose again.
And Shroud Runners would be annoying as hell
-
You mean a few of seconds per model per turn of them game, right? And that assumes you have a player who can decide on that move in an instant.
40 models times 5 seconds per model means three more minutes per turn.
Every time someone tries to talk me out of something I end up wanting it even more (eg all the hate on the Direwolf has me wanting one all the more!)
Overread, for the love of the Omnissiah, you don't want that Direwolf. Even if Forgeworld paid me £50 to have one on the house, I'd still tell them to take a walk.
Its THAT friggin bad.
So.............. now I need 2
You don't seem to understand how unbelievably horrible that thing looks.
You obviously need four.
I hadn't seen this new mini and had to google it. Look at its piddly little arms! It's great how can people not like that little freakshow?
If I didn't already have zero money for new Eldar I'd buy one as well.
Every time someone tries to talk me out of something I end up wanting it even more (eg all the hate on the Direwolf has me wanting one all the more!)
Overread, for the love of the Omnissiah, you don't want that Direwolf. Even if Forgeworld paid me £50 to have one on the house, I'd still tell them to take a walk.
Its THAT friggin bad.
So.............. now I need 2
You don't seem to understand how unbelievably horrible that thing looks.
You obviously need four.
I hadn't seen this new mini and had to google it. Look at its piddly little arms! It's great how can people not like that little freakshow?
If I didn't already have zero money for new Eldar I'd buy one as well.
What I wanna know now is if BIKE still have auto 6" for Advance, does that also mean an auto 6" for a BF move?
If so, Windriders might actually have a purpose again.
And Shroud Runners would be annoying as hell
-
No they can't. Read the 2nd bullet point on BF rules. The move after shooting counts as a Normal Move, Any rules for Advance therefore don't apply.
Ultramarines, 3rd Co. and friends, 16k+ 
4k 
4k Points
Competition Index
(yes this is a joke)
