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They will make Cool troops choices. 10 man unit with some special weapons. Wraith cannon and blaster. Definitely give them some serious punch. Would have to see all the rules and how to fit them into a list.
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
Hellebore wrote: Auspex tactics has done a breakdown of what the units rules are in 40k and it sounds pretty interesting.
Especially as the one kit is effectively producing 4 different unit types - 1 range elite, 1 cc elite, 1 range troop, 1 cc troop.
That's pretty good.
So Voidreavers are basically Kabalite Warriors sans PfP and 2pts more expensive but with actual guns rather than water pistols. In fact they really are Kabalites because their only special weapons are Blasters and Shredders (no Fusion Guns, which is a shame). A 10-man squad can take a Shuriken Cannon but it's heavy and they have nothing to allow them to move and fire, nor any other claim to being a stationary weapons unit, so barring as-yet-unseen rules that's a dead option from the get-go. The Wraithcannon is more interesting being assault and basically a Blaster with better strength and damage. The Felarch's options are hilariously bad - a Neuro Disruptor (fear my power to do 1 mortal wound and kill all of half a Marine! Wooooo!) and a 4++ on a model that isn't worth protecting. Super.
They have a nice ability which apparently make to-hit rolls of 6 auto-wound and also count as having rolled a 6 to wound. This means that any 6s to hit with their Shuriken weapons auto-wound and are resolved at better AP.
They seem okay, if a little pricey, but the fact that they can't fill mandatory troop slots is a heavy blow.
Going to be honest - the rules presented here don't really scream 'Corsairs' to me. I think it's how sterile they feel. I expect Corsairs to be like the Orks of the space-elf world - not quite ramshackle but very much a collection of whatever they've managed to steal/salvage/scavenge.
However, any hopes that this might be the case is immediately derailed by the standard 'no model, no rules' policy that GW remains desperate to force on us. Thus, Corsairs can have Blasters and Shredders but not Fusion Guns because no one could be arsed making models for them. They can have Shuriken Cannons and Wraithcannons but not Splinter Cannons, Dark Lances or even Dissonance weapons. You know, the weapons that used to be unique to Corsairs. They can have a Neuro Disruptor but not a Blast-, Fusion- or even Shuriken Pistol because . . . er . . . reasons? Oh, and their only melee weapon is a Power Sword, because of course it fething is. What happened to Venom Blades? Why can't any of them take Direswords? Or, you know, Void Sabres, another signature weapon. These also used to be Rending, and an effect along those lines would have helped them synergise with the '6s to hit auto-wound and count as 6s to wound' ability. Sigh.
The other unit is Voidscarred - an Elite unit that also can't fill mandatory slots for some reason.
These are 2pts per model more expensive and appear to only get an extra attack for it. They can take the same wargear as the troop unit but also have some additional options:
- Can swap their rifles for power swords. Er... okay.
- 1-in-10 models can take an Eldar Long Rifle, which feels really out of place.
- 1-in-10 models can swap their power sword for a fusion pistol. What. Why can't they take the pistol with the power sword?
- Oh and 1-in-10 models can take something that lets the unit ignore cover.
You also have some specialist dudes including a guy with WS2+ and what amounts to a S3 Power Sword. zzzzzzzZZZZ
Then there's someone who lets the unit ignore the first failed save each turn. Er... okay.
Finally, you have the Warlork-equivalent who is apparently immune to perils and has something very similar to a Witchblade.
In terms of the overall fee, this unit is a little better in some respects (if only because of more options allowed). However, it's still hamstrung by the aforementioned obsession with no-model, no rules. So (assuming the leaks are accurate) rather than a sensible power sword and pistol arrangement, a model has to choose one or the other. Also for some reason the melee attachment has the worst melee weapons in the unit.
Also, I get the feeling the design team really didn't know what to do with the 'extra' models. 'Ignores cover' and 'ignores the first failed save' just feel like desperate scrounging for what to use these models as, rather than any effort to bring Corsairs to life.
This unit just feels like more of a miss mechanically. They're Elites and more expensive than the Troop option yet don't seem to really bring much extra for that pricetag. Maybe the Warlock will be a game-changer but otherwise I'm struggling to see the appeal of a unit of Power-Sword wielders.
dan2026 wrote: Shame they can't fill out mandatory slots.
Wasn't the rumour that they could, as long as Yriel is your warlord? Niche circumstances I know
Ugh. As if Ynnari wasn't bad enough, now we get to have another faction completely shacked to a special character with no generic equivalent.
But why would anyone have wanted to see the Corsair Prince, Void Seer or Baron return? Not like anyone who plays a faction of space elf pirates might want a heavily-customised HQ to lead them, right?
blood reaper wrote: I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote: GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
Argive wrote: Imagine if the warlock corsair is better than a "proper" warlock
In a way that makes sense though, right? Freed from the shackles of the path system, they are willing to dig more deeply into their powers (or are simply reckless enough to do whatever they feel like).
Argive wrote: The eldritch omens box pre-released on saturday. I think its due to ship on the 13th ? Maybe I made this date up though haha
I think they generally ship the next Monday.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/02/08 15:03:59
If ordered for in-store pickup from a GW location or ordered by an independent, they'll be shipped in time theoretically for a Saturday release. Meaning preorders on the 5th should be there for pickup on the February 12th release date.
If shipping to your home from the GW webstore, they'll ship the Monday following the release date-- so a preorder on the 5th, release on the 12th, ship on the 14th for home deliveries.
Argive wrote: Imagine if the warlock corsair is better than a "proper" warlock
In a way that makes sense though, right? Freed from the shackles of the path system, they are willing to dig more deeply into their powers (or are simply reckless enough to do whatever they feel like).
Argive wrote: The eldritch omens box pre-released on Saturday. I think its due to ship on the 13th ? Maybe I made this date up though haha
I think they generally ship the next Monday.
I sort of get it but, that would mean they are more volatile if anything. I.e. Bigger power but higher risk. ?
The fact they seem to be immune to perils seems to be contra to that idea
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
Ugh. As if Ynnari wasn't bad enough, now we get to have another faction completely shacked to a special character with no generic equivalent.
But why would anyone have wanted to see the Corsair Prince, Void Seer or Baron return? Not like anyone who plays a faction of space elf pirates might want a heavily-customised HQ to lead them, right?
Well it's not like you'd be able to do a viable list of entirely Corsairs even if they added a generic non-Yriel HQ.
In order for the Voidreavers to count for you mandatory Troops, you're entire army must be ANHRATHE.
So unless you want an auto-lose army consisting of 100+ T3 models only, it really doesn't matter if Yriel is the only Corsair HQ.
The only viable way to take them is as Elite Voidscarred or as "extra" Troops. We already know that they can be added to a Craftworld detachment without interfering with that detachment being <Craftworld>.
vipoid wrote: Then there's someone who lets the unit ignore the first failed save each turn. Er... okay.
That's literally what squad apothecary in Infiltrator squad does. Did anyone mention primaris rules are gak yet?
But why would anyone have wanted to see the Corsair Prince, Void Seer or Baron return? Not like anyone who plays a faction of space elf pirates might want a heavily-customised HQ to lead them, right?
Yeah, 40K team hate of generic HQs is really stupid and disappointing. Especially seeing AoS does this with nearly every single unique character. Why there is no say Canoness in a walker or flying pulpit on Sister side or Gravis techmarine/Phobos captain with jump pack on SM side I have no idea, GW would be selling tenfold more of these models if they could be taken in other SoB/SM armies and weren't subfaction locked...
Ugh. As if Ynnari wasn't bad enough, now we get to have another faction completely shacked to a special character with no generic equivalent.
But why would anyone have wanted to see the Corsair Prince, Void Seer or Baron return? Not like anyone who plays a faction of space elf pirates might want a heavily-customised HQ to lead them, right?
Knowing modern GW, the customizability of said HQ will be reduced to being able to choose between a Corsair Rifle, or a Corsair Melee Weapon and Corsair Pistol, both of which will have a boatload of diffrent strategems depending on the keyword of your choosing, all of which will suck except one.
"Tabletop games are the only setting when a body is made more horrifying for NOT being chopped into smaller pieces."
- Jiado
Argive wrote: Imagine if the warlock corsair is better than a "proper" warlock
I mean, not even a Farseer gets to ignore perils outright.
Tbh, it's a bit strange because Corsair psykers used to be far more volatile. Back in 7th, they actually had a harsher Perils table (with one result being that the unit dies and then respawns under your opponent's control).
Galef wrote: Well it's not like you'd be able to do a viable list of entirely Corsairs even if they added a generic non-Yriel HQ.
In order for the Voidreavers to count for you mandatory Troops, you're entire army must be ANHRATHE.
So unless you want an auto-lose army consisting of 100+ T3 models only, it really doesn't matter if Yriel is the only Corsair HQ.
The only viable way to take them is as Elite Voidscarred or as "extra" Troops. We already know that they can be added to a Craftworld detachment without interfering with that detachment being <Craftworld>.
The question 'well whose fault is that?' comes to mind. GW literally had an entire Corsair codex, and at that one which would have taken barely any effort to convert to 8th/9th, and they chose to delete it outright.
But even if we ignore that, Corsairs had vehicles. They had their own versions of Venoms, Wave Serpents, War-Walkers etc.
Even if GW can't be arsed giving Corsairs their own units, they could easily have a list of vehicles that gain the ANHRATHE label if taken in that detachment (which would help flesh out a Corsair army).
Yeah, 40K team hate of generic HQs is really stupid and disappointing. Especially seeing AoS does this with nearly every single unique character. Why there is no say Canoness in a walker or flying pulpit on Sister side or Gravis techmarine/Phobos captain with jump pack on SM side I have no idea, GW would be selling tenfold more of these models if they could be taken in other SoB/SM armies and weren't subfaction locked...
Yeah, I really don't like it when special characters have no generic equivalent at all. If I'm going to include a special character, I want it to be on their own merits, not because it's the only way to play a particular army or to get a character with a jump pack or whatever.
blood reaper wrote: I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote: GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
Going to be honest - the rules presented here don't really scream 'Corsairs' to me. I think it's how sterile they feel. I expect Corsairs to be like the Orks of the space-elf world - not quite ramshackle but very much a collection of whatever they've managed to steal/salvage/scavenge.
However, any hopes that this might be the case is immediately derailed by the standard 'no model, no rules' policy that GW remains desperate to force on us. Thus, Corsairs can have Blasters and Shredders but not Fusion Guns because no one could be arsed making models for them. They can have Shuriken Cannons and Wraithcannons but not Splinter Cannons, Dark Lances or even Dissonance weapons. You know, the weapons that used to be unique to Corsairs. They can have a Neuro Disruptor but not a Blast-, Fusion- or even Shuriken Pistol because . . . er . . . reasons? Oh, and their only melee weapon is a Power Sword, because of course it fething is. What happened to Venom Blades? Why can't any of them take Direswords? Or, you know, Void Sabres, another signature weapon. These also used to be Rending, and an effect along those lines would have helped them synergise with the '6s to hit auto-wound and count as 6s to wound' ability. Sigh.
That seems like a strange expectation you have. I mean, no one wants unit options limited by kit build options, but at the same time it usually when folks are forced to scavenge like stray cats they don't get better goods or services lol. You basically want the eldar version of rabble and smugglers to be viable as an organized fully fleshed out faction, but wait theres more! You also want them to somehow scavenge their way into having flat better gear then the other fully organized, and better funded versions of eldar in the game.
I mean, if they just gave them the keys to every eldar armory, why would there be any reason to play the other factions lol?
This might be an unpopular opinion but corsairs should have never been a fully fledged faction. I mean I have the FW book and it's a hot mess or trash lol. It has strange jank rules that made no sense (braces of random pistols with better stats then standard issue military rifles?) and unit options that never existed as models anyway (the same brace of pistols lol).
I'll say it again, you want to play army wide pirates? You can, the Drukhari are literally that lol. I mean, the court of the Archon could not be more pirates entourage lol.
This unit basically gave GW an excuse to give folks a pretty amazing kit to play with, and anyone not jumping all the way down the rabbit whole can still play with a unit or two.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/02/08 16:29:37
Yeah, 40K team hate of generic HQs is really stupid and disappointing. Especially seeing AoS does this with nearly every single unique character. Why there is no say Canoness in a walker or flying pulpit on Sister side or Gravis techmarine/Phobos captain with jump pack on SM side I have no idea, GW would be selling tenfold more of these models if they could be taken in other SoB/SM armies and weren't subfaction locked...
Yeah, I really don't like it when special characters have no generic equivalent at all. If I'm going to include a special character, I want it to be on their own merits, not because it's the only way to play a particular army or to get a character with a jump pack or whatever.
Except that Yriel does have a generic equivalent. Yriel was always the named Autarch character.
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The question 'well whose fault is that?' comes to mind. GW literally had an entire Corsair codex, and at that one which would have taken barely any effort to convert to 8th/9th, and they chose to delete it outright.
But even if we ignore that, Corsairs had vehicles. They had their own versions of Venoms, Wave Serpents, War-Walkers etc.
Even if GW can't be arsed giving Corsairs their own units, they could easily have a list of vehicles that gain the ANHRATHE label if taken in that detachment (which would help flesh out a Corsair army).
I guess that's fair. But in a way I am glad. Corsairs were always meant to be a rag-tag fringe group of misfits from various Eldar factions, so them engaging in full sized 40k battles never seemed right (which can be said of multiple 40k faction atm). Corsairs only being a stand-alone force in KT sized engagements and supplementing CWE/DE in larger battles feels more accurate, at least to me.
Yriel's Eldritch Raiders coming to assist Iyanden when it was attacked by Nids was exactly that. And I think that's one of the largest showings of Eldar Corsairs in the current fluff
I wish GW did this with more sub-factions. Not EVERY snowflake faction should be able to pull forces big enough for large battles. Some are fine to be KT only, or used as supplements to bigger armies.
-
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/02/08 16:49:47
Yeah, 40K team hate of generic HQs is really stupid and disappointing. Especially seeing AoS does this with nearly every single unique character. Why there is no say Canoness in a walker or flying pulpit on Sister side or Gravis techmarine/Phobos captain with jump pack on SM side I have no idea, GW would be selling tenfold more of these models if they could be taken in other SoB/SM armies and weren't subfaction locked...
Yeah, I really don't like it when special characters have no generic equivalent at all. If I'm going to include a special character, I want it to be on their own merits, not because it's the only way to play a particular army or to get a character with a jump pack or whatever.
Except that Yriel does have a generic equivalent. Yriel was always the named Autarch character.
We can hope that in the army construction part of the codex there are rules to replace/add keywords to allow more options. The Autarch has enough options he could be a pirate and join the corsairs. Also might be needed to allow vehicles/other units to join.
Red Corsair wrote: That seems like a strange expectation you have. I mean, no one wants unit options limited by kit build options, but at the same time it usually when folks are forced to scavenge like stray cats they don't get better goods or services lol. You basically want the eldar version of rabble and smugglers to be viable as an organized fully fleshed out faction, but wait theres more! You also want them to somehow scavenge their way into having flat better gear then the other fully organized, and better funded versions of eldar in the game.
I mean, if they just gave them the keys to every eldar armory, why would there be any reason to play the other factions lol?
This seems a little ridiculous. Being able to take Splinter Cannons when they can already take Shuriken Cannons, or getting their signature weapons that they had in prior editions, would neither make them better and more organized than the other Eldar factions nor would it make the other factions obsolete. We're talking small arms and personal wargear, not 'I want to put a prism cannon on a Ravager'.
Glad the AOK has had a lovely glow up but I hope the GDs get their own and return to being as strong as they should be (ie stronger than the Avatar lol)
When I think of how the Greater Daemons and the Avatar of Khaine should be represented on the tabletop I always think back to 2nd edition when they were arguably a scary prospect.
Going by the standard set back then none of the Greater Daemons should be stronger than The Avatar of Khaine (indeed only The Bloodthirster was his equal in the Strength stat department, both being 8 vs 7 for the Keeper of Secrets/Great Unclean One/Lord of Change, the Avatar was also as Tough as the Great Unclean One at 8 vs 7 for the Bloodthirster/Keeper of Secrets/Lord of Change).
The only Greater Daemon who should be capable of going toe to toe with The Avatar of Khaine in combat is the Bloodthirster and that was often a coin flip to see who would come out on top.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/02/08 18:23:00
Space Wolves - Alpha Legion - Biel-Tan - Reikland - Lizardmen of Hexoatl - Slaaneshi Daemons
Galef wrote: I wish GW did this with more sub-factions. Not EVERY snowflake faction should be able to pull forces big enough for large battles. Some are fine to be KT only, or used as supplements to bigger armies.
Define 'larger battles'. Because 20-40 dudes you see on typical 40K table is something pretty much any faction should cobble together, no matter how minor. Hell, even DW or GK, typically used as example by people who think gak pre-codex single squad rules were somehow the best (and they are wrong at that, as even these rules allowed full armies), usually deploy in company sized forces, much bigger than what you see in the game.
Eldar Corsairs in BFG can field cruisers and battleships with weapons that outperform standard Imperial naval weapons. Those kinds of ships require significant numbers of crew even accounting for Eldar ships needing less than comparable human ships. They are not poor rag tag bands using scrap weaponry. They are more like 3rd world warlords with their own private army and navy.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/02/08 19:33:46
The question 'well whose fault is that?' comes to mind. GW literally had an entire Corsair codex, and at that one which would have taken barely any effort to convert to 8th/9th, and they chose to delete it outright.
But even if we ignore that, Corsairs had vehicles. They had their own versions of Venoms, Wave Serpents, War-Walkers etc.
Even if GW can't be arsed giving Corsairs their own units, they could easily have a list of vehicles that gain the ANHRATHE label if taken in that detachment (which would help flesh out a Corsair army).
Lorewise I had always thought of most the war-power for Corsairs was their Voidships and Fighters with small boarding actions after they had scuttled an enemy void ship. I didn't know they could take (D)Eldar vehicles but that's pretty neat. Your solution seems pretty reasonable.
vipoid wrote: - 1-in-10 models can swap their power sword for a fusion pistol. What. Why can't they take the pistol with the power sword?
Because the miniature - a "Starstorm Duellist" according to WarCom - has two pistols. That's why.
No model. No rule.
Ugh.
blood reaper wrote: I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote: GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
The question 'well whose fault is that?' comes to mind. GW literally had an entire Corsair codex, and at that one which would have taken barely any effort to convert to 8th/9th, and they chose to delete it outright.
But even if we ignore that, Corsairs had vehicles. They had their own versions of Venoms, Wave Serpents, War-Walkers etc.
Even if GW can't be arsed giving Corsairs their own units, they could easily have a list of vehicles that gain the ANHRATHE label if taken in that detachment (which would help flesh out a Corsair army).
I guess that's fair. But in a way I am glad.
Corsairs were always meant to be a rag-tag fringe group of misfits from various Eldar factions, so them engaging in full sized 40k battles never seemed right (which can be said of multiple 40k faction atm). Corsairs only being a stand-alone force in KT sized engagements and supplementing CWE/DE in larger battles feels more accurate, at least to me.
Yriel's Eldritch Raiders coming to assist Iyanden when it was attacked by Nids was exactly that. And I think that's one of the largest showings of Eldar Corsairs in the current fluff
I wish GW did this with more sub-factions. Not EVERY snowflake faction should be able to pull forces big enough for large battles. Some are fine to be KT only, or used as supplements to bigger armies.
-
Absolutely spot on here. I would like to add a few other “factions” to this list…
Ugh. As if Ynnari wasn't bad enough, now we get to have another faction completely shacked to a special character with no generic equivalent.
But why would anyone have wanted to see the Corsair Prince, Void Seer or Baron return? Not like anyone who plays a faction of space elf pirates might want a heavily-customised HQ to lead them, right?
Knowing modern GW, the customizability of said HQ will be reduced to being able to choose between a Corsair Rifle, or a Corsair Melee Weapon and Corsair Pistol, both of which will have a boatload of diffrent strategems depending on the keyword of your choosing, all of which will suck except one.
Made me laugh.
If any unit should have all the options, war gear from every eldar anywhere, with “missing” relics from who knows when and where, it should be these dudes. Should be no end to customisation… but sure, they have their own weapons manufacturing and regimental standard issue weaponry. GW pissing on their own leg, again, imho… what a disappointment. I feel like it is the release of 8th Ed again. Bunk…
Galef wrote: Corsairs were always meant to be a rag-tag fringe group of misfits from various Eldar factions, so them engaging in full sized 40k battles never seemed right (which can be said of multiple 40k faction atm). Corsairs only being a stand-alone force in KT sized engagements and supplementing CWE/DE in larger battles feels more accurate, at least to me.
Be that as it may - the same arguments can be made for Custodes and Sisters of Silence, perhaps even Knights - but doesn't this seem like GW has gone out of their way to ensure that this can't be an army?
Aieirldari Corsairs could be another <Craftworld> alongside Ynnari and Harlequin, with the proviso being that you can only take an Autarch as your leader (perhaps Warlocks), Corsair Dumbnames as your Elites, regular Corsairs as your troops, and then various vehicles (War Walkers, Vypers, etc.) get to replace their <Craftworld> keyword with <Corsairs>.
Or we're all idiots, this is going to happen, but it's going to be in a DLC campaign book.
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