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The ignore cover if within 12" is a bit odd. Probably GW thought ignoring cover from far away was too powerful and that by being closer, these Shroud Runners were expose themselves to shorter range return fire and assault, as a sort of balancing.
A more "realistic" version might have been ignore cover at any range if firer does not move.
The whole idea of Eldar snipers from the back of a moving platform argument/debate is futile because there is the 40K rule of cool and also because we don't ultimately know what kind of targeting gear or other aids the Eldar sniper has. First off, Eldar are described as superhuman space elves, so like Legolas they seem to be shown as capable of shooting with accuracy while standing on a rapidly moving platform. Dark Eldar Wyches have acute enough senses and reflexes to dodge ranged fire because they have seen the shooter telegraph their shot, and in their 3rd edition Codex were written as kicking grenades back at the thrower. The base difficulty therefore of a shot that humans might find near impossible might be merely considered "tricky but doable" for an Eldar. Second, we don't know exactly what gear the Eldar sniper has aiding him. The old Ranger models sometimes had additional lensed bulbs on their helmets suggesting targeting gear. The rifles themselves have their gyrostatic arms (that long prong that juts downward at an angle is described in the 5th edition Codex as this), so that presumably from the name acts to stabilize.
What I found odd was the high contrast of green cloaks on bright red jetbike. Cameleoline is supposed to change color to blend in, so I would have thought the cloaks should have been more like some kind of movement blur. I guess it was just visual shorthand for the Ranger cloaks to be in their usual camo green.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/12/25 22:04:05
The Chosen models look awesome, though I will be swiping out the head of the bald one for another head. Also, I personally think that the champion makes for a better Chaos Lord model than the actual Chaos Lord model does.
Iracundus wrote: The whole idea of Eldar snipers from the back of a moving platform argument/debate is futile because there is the 40K rule of cool and also because we don't ultimately know what kind of targeting gear or other aids the Eldar sniper has. First off, Eldar are described as superhuman space elves, so like Legolas they seem to be shown as capable of shooting with accuracy while standing on a rapidly moving platform. Dark Eldar Wyches have acute enough senses and reflexes to dodge ranged fire because they have seen the shooter telegraph their shot, and in their 3rd edition Codex were written as kicking grenades back at the thrower. The base difficulty therefore of a shot that humans might find near impossible might be merely considered "tricky but doable" for an Eldar. Second, we don't know exactly what gear the Eldar sniper has aiding him. The old Ranger models sometimes had additional lensed bulbs on their helmets suggesting targeting gear. The rifles themselves have their gyrostatic arms (that long prong that juts downward at an angle is described in the 5th edition Codex as this), so that presumably from the name acts to stabilize.
You might also argue that the greater psychic ability of the average Eldar grants them some level of precognition, that's useful while aiming.
As a Chaos player, the chosen do not appeal to me at all. Warpsmith is fine I guess.
ph34r's Forgeworld Phobos blog, current WIP: Iron Warriors and Skaven Tau +From Iron Cometh Strength+ +From Strength Cometh Will+ +From Will Cometh Faith+ +From Faith Cometh Honor+ +From Honor Cometh Iron+
The Polito form is dead, insect. Are you afraid? What is it you fear? The end of your trivial existence?
When the history of my glory is written, your species shall only be a footnote to my magnificence.
The grav stabiliser stalk under the gun would make it like a steady cam, like cameras on drones. No matter how bounced around the gun will stay stable.
The jetbike itself is an even larger more stable grav platform providing the same stability.
IMO an Eldar carrying an auto stabilising gun mounted on an auto stabilising platform is more stable than a human lying down with a bipod.
Cool box imho. I have a lot of rangers, though. Bikes are interesting, and the shooters are at least aiming forward and not sideways, as the path of the bike should help make shooting more effective. Chaos stuff is pretty cool, too. I am not a chaos collector, but do have maybe ten or twelve old metal termies with plastic arm swaps to be magnetised all in a box waiting for the month I want to spend painting them… this box might get me going on that, if it ends up priced reasonably
Rolsheen wrote: Take a second look at the Autarch see how she is leaning backwards on the tactical rock, except her tassels on the front, her cloak and her banner aren't
I can't unsee this now. That looks to be such a schoolboy error it's almost ridiculous. It looks like the mini was meant for a flat surface and the tactical rock was added last minute so no one noticed that glaring error in the lack of gravity...
Games Workshop Delenda Est.
Users on ignore- 53.
If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: I can't believe it
Everything was true
It really is a bunch of new Eldar and CSM stuff
And it looks good
So, should I order eldar now if I need to round out a few units of old school eldars?
My advice all through 2.0 edition of AoS where updates were happening a lot was that if there were any updates to an army coming up and you wanted any of the current classic models that weren't semi-new plastics - get them now. Some resin/metal/old plastic sculpts will vanish when GW updates them and often as not they can vanish way before you get told or warning because GW just stops production and lets the stock run down as they are going to be replaced anyway. Overseas would be more at risk of this as things come to them in batches; UK can linger a bit longer as they can just run off a quick batch and it hits the shelves instantly.
So if there's classic sculpts you like, get them. Eldar are set for an update this year, not everything but a good sized update and this new set only really updates 2 models and adds a new one so that's not a "big update" all in itself. A tip of the iceberg I hope.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: I can't believe it
Everything was true
It really is a bunch of new Eldar and CSM stuff
And it looks good
So, should I order eldar now if I need to round out a few units of old school eldars?
My advice all through 2.0 edition of AoS where updates were happening a lot was that if there were any updates to an army coming up and you wanted any of the current classic models that weren't semi-new plastics - get them now. Some resin/metal/old plastic sculpts will vanish when GW updates them and often as not they can vanish way before you get told or warning because GW just stops production and lets the stock run down as they are going to be replaced anyway. Overseas would be more at risk of this as things come to them in batches; UK can linger a bit longer as they can just run off a quick batch and it hits the shelves instantly.
So if there's classic sculpts you like, get them. Eldar are set for an update this year, not everything but a good sized update and this new set only really updates 2 models and adds a new one so that's not a "big update" all in itself. A tip of the iceberg I hope.
Zoom closer I want to use my long range Sniper rifle on them...unless the rifle get a major uptick in damage I'm struggling to see a role for them when Spears and bare bones double cannon Vypers exist
"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED."
It wouldn't surprise me if one of GW's ideas is to flesh out the Aspects with sub-faction armies in the codex. So the core would be a Craftworld Army; then each "sub" army might theme around a particular Aspect Warrior group. This might go hand in hand with units like the new raptor bikes whereby each Aspect gets a unit or two new and unique to them to give them more options which then go hand in hand with a few boosts from sub-army abilities.
Overread wrote: It wouldn't surprise me if one of GW's ideas is to flesh out the Aspects with sub-faction armies in the codex. So the core would be a Craftworld Army; then each "sub" army might theme around a particular Aspect Warrior group. This might go hand in hand with units like the new raptor bikes whereby each Aspect gets a unit or two new and unique to them to give them more options which then go hand in hand with a few boosts from sub-army abilities.
Well, if they want to do away with the core identity of aspect warriors (that is, specializing in a single, specific way of waging war) and craftworlds (using those specific ways of waging war in combination to greater effect), that's one way of doing it I guess.
I can agree that whether or not it's cool is a matter of taste. If your initial response is "That's dumb, not cool," you're not wrong to feel that way. Others can and will disagree, but that doesn't make you wrong-it's subjective.
But appealing to realism is a silly thing to do.
Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne!
Overread wrote: It wouldn't surprise me if one of GW's ideas is to flesh out the Aspects with sub-faction armies in the codex. So the core would be a Craftworld Army; then each "sub" army might theme around a particular Aspect Warrior group. This might go hand in hand with units like the new raptor bikes whereby each Aspect gets a unit or two new and unique to them to give them more options which then go hand in hand with a few boosts from sub-army abilities.
Well, if they want to do away with the core identity of aspect warriors (that is, specializing in a single, specific way of waging war) and craftworlds (using those specific ways of waging war in combination to greater effect), that's one way of doing it I guess.
I see it more like fleshing out the "one way to wage war" aspect with a touch of diversity. Note I never said that the aspect sub-armies would only have aspect warriors in them and that they'd end up copy-catting the Craftworld core units (everyone gets an aspect falcon etc..); just that they'd build on the idea of Aspects being at the core of an army strategy. So you might take the Banshee Aspect Sub-army; with Banshee, their Estarch and perhaps one or two new Banshee themed support units alongside regular craftworld units. The army would be themed around the Aspect in the nature of perhaps denying them some options; or giving them bonuses that favour one style of play that themes from the aspect. It might also help to make the aspects feel more visually unique - eg Striking Scorpions and Banshee are very similar (both have a sword and handgun). Visually they are very similar; but flesh them out with a unique additional unit and that helps separate them.
And don't forget Yinnari has sparked a cultural change in the Craftworld Eldar. There's a sense that they might shift from the whole "we are a dying race" to "we fell, now we rise anew". We might see this with new units for aspects as they explore their aspect outside of the armour of generations; we might see it as them retaking worlds once lost; rekindling their holdings in a more direct way. Taking advantage of the instability in the Imperium to secure a power base for themselves. Preparing themselves for the storm ahead as Tyranids and Chaos are on the rise; as Necrons (their old enemy) are restoring themselves and even have their Silent King back who could re-unite them under a single banner.
Heck even with the Imperium damaged, they are building for a new Crusade and whilst Eldar did help them along that pathway, the Imperium is still Xenophobic; they will still burn Eldar worlds if they can; or will turn on the Eldar once other greater threats are gone.
I foresee that Eldar could change, their lore advancing for the first time in a long time.
Overread wrote: I foresee that Eldar could change, their lore advancing for the first time in a long time.
Of course they could change, and dilluting their themes is one way of doing it. And one of those, on craftworlds, was that they play rock/paper/scissirs at a squad level, so the way of playing them was having a variety of rocks, papers and scissors. Monotheme aspect armies would only have rocks (or whatever) of different sizes.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/26 00:39:09
I foresee that Eldar could change, their lore advancing for the first time in a long time.
I mean, they could do that.
That they're sticking with Autarchs and Rangers as the lead release before the codex even happens suggests that they're... not.
That GW thought about giving Banshees an 'unmasked' Ynarri variant and then backed off and did nothing, suggests that they're... not.
That GW noped out of adding Dark and Craftworld special characters to the Ynarri list despite sticking them front and center of the Ynarri 'story' suggests that they're... not.
The army would be themed around the Aspect in the nature of perhaps denying them some options; or giving them bonuses that favour one style of play that themes from the aspect. It might also help to make the aspects feel more visually unique - eg Striking Scorpions and Banshee are very similar (both have a sword and handgun). Visually they are very similar; but flesh them out with a unique additional unit and that helps separate them.
I'm honestly lost here. How would adding another unit make Banshees and Scorpions more distinct?
What options do you think they have? Both full stop and what could be denied to make them more... whatever? I'm not sure, you switch to visual uniqueness, but visually scorpions and banshees look nothing alike to me. Sword and pistol is so basic that the same argument could be used to suggest they're the same as assault intercessors or necron praetorians.
Esmer wrote: That...sounds like a rather stupid concept for a sniper unit to do in general.
Marines riding around on giant wolves is also a really stupid concept - stupider, even! - but the execution of that concept in miniature form turned out far better than I ever would have imagined.
Boy, in that case not much from the heralded 41st millenium turnover is amounting to much other than Guilliman especially after the retcons. I can't say I'm surprised after having participated in the 3rd War for Armageddon though.
Overread wrote: It wouldn't surprise me if one of GW's ideas is to flesh out the Aspects with sub-faction armies in the codex. So the core would be a Craftworld Army; then each "sub" army might theme around a particular Aspect Warrior group. This might go hand in hand with units like the new raptor bikes whereby each Aspect gets a unit or two new and unique to them to give them more options which then go hand in hand with a few boosts from sub-army abilities.
Well, if they want to do away with the core identity of aspect warriors (that is, specializing in a single, specific way of waging war) and craftworlds (using those specific ways of waging war in combination to greater effect), that's one way of doing it I guess.
I see it more like fleshing out the "one way to wage war" aspect with a touch of diversity. Note I never said that the aspect sub-armies would only have aspect warriors in them and that they'd end up copy-catting the Craftworld core units (everyone gets an aspect falcon etc..); just that they'd build on the idea of Aspects being at the core of an army strategy. So you might take the Banshee Aspect Sub-army; with Banshee, their Estarch and perhaps one or two new Banshee themed support units alongside regular craftworld units. The army would be themed around the Aspect in the nature of perhaps denying them some options; or giving them bonuses that favour one style of play that themes from the aspect. It might also help to make the aspects feel more visually unique - eg Striking Scorpions and Banshee are very similar (both have a sword and handgun). Visually they are very similar; but flesh them out with a unique additional unit and that helps separate them.
And don't forget Yinnari has sparked a cultural change in the Craftworld Eldar. There's a sense that they might shift from the whole "we are a dying race" to "we fell, now we rise anew". We might see this with new units for aspects as they explore their aspect outside of the armour of generations; we might see it as them retaking worlds once lost; rekindling their holdings in a more direct way. Taking advantage of the instability in the Imperium to secure a power base for themselves. Preparing themselves for the storm ahead as Tyranids and Chaos are on the rise; as Necrons (their old enemy) are restoring themselves and even have their Silent King back who could re-unite them under a single banner.
Heck even with the Imperium damaged, they are building for a new Crusade and whilst Eldar did help them along that pathway, the Imperium is still Xenophobic; they will still burn Eldar worlds if they can; or will turn on the Eldar once other greater threats are gone.
I foresee that Eldar could change, their lore advancing for the first time in a long time.
I think i would rather see new Aspect Warriors introduced than different styles of already established ones.
Each of the main Craftworlds have their unique identity's:
Iyanden - Wraith Units
Alaitoc - Rangers
Saim-Hann - Jetbikes Units
Ulthwe - Guardian Units and Warlocks/Farseers
Biel-Tan - Aspect Warrior Units
Of the armies listed Biel-Tan has the most diverse access to units if we are limiting them only to the units they are most well known for. Eldar don't really need special subsets of already established Aspect Warriors. The established ones are already cool enough. I wouldn't say no to another Heavy Support Aspect Warrior though to go along with the Dark Reapers.
Space Wolves - Alpha Legion - Biel-Tan - Reikland - Lizardmen of Hexoatl - Slaaneshi Daemons
Guys, it's a game that has space magic. Let's dispense with the realism arguments, if you want that go to the Historical Wargaming threads.
So anyways, I've been wanting Eldar for a long time. I need to see more new models first, but this is a good start. I'll probably wait until the individual kits come out, I don't want a box set.
Chosen are welcome, I've been wanting some for years now for my BL.
Not Online!!! wrote: i hope the Chosen are neither monopose nor PM style loadout.
Well, I don't think you have to worry about the second one. At least for now.
They look really monopose- the ones pointing or aiming are can't really be swapped with anything else and have a reasonable looking model.
The only glimmer of hope is the text mentions powerfists and nobody has one.... but then, the lightning claws may be a simply add-on to the powerfists, as generally LC gloves aren't that chunky.
But given the way they got a bit giddy about weapon options for the Autarch, the lack of clear statement on the Chosen speaks volumes.
Also, given the use of 'harangue' with sniper fire on jetbikes, clearly the text isn't to be trusted or taken seriously.
I think it's possible that these Chosen are similar to the CSM from the Shadow Spear and SC box: simpler models with less options, while the standalone kit will have more. The standalone CSM kit added a lot of options, as have a lot of the standalone primaris kits compared to their "big box" counterparts (the standalone Eradicators have how many optional heads?). At least that's what I'm hoping. And many CSM lighting claws are just as "chonky" as power fists. Just look at some of the ones in the Raptors/Warp Talons kit: they're just as beefy as the power fist in the same kit.
Overread wrote: It wouldn't surprise me if one of GW's ideas is to flesh out the Aspects with sub-faction armies in the codex. So the core would be a Craftworld Army; then each "sub" army might theme around a particular Aspect Warrior group. This might go hand in hand with units like the new raptor bikes whereby each Aspect gets a unit or two new and unique to them to give them more options which then go hand in hand with a few boosts from sub-army abilities.
Well, if they want to do away with the core identity of aspect warriors (that is, specializing in a single, specific way of waging war) and craftworlds (using those specific ways of waging war in combination to greater effect), that's one way of doing it I guess.
I see it more like fleshing out the "one way to wage war" aspect with a touch of diversity. Note I never said that the aspect sub-armies would only have aspect warriors in them and that they'd end up copy-catting the Craftworld core units (everyone gets an aspect falcon etc..); just that they'd build on the idea of Aspects being at the core of an army strategy. So you might take the Banshee Aspect Sub-army; with Banshee, their Estarch and perhaps one or two new Banshee themed support units alongside regular craftworld units. The army would be themed around the Aspect in the nature of perhaps denying them some options; or giving them bonuses that favour one style of play that themes from the aspect. It might also help to make the aspects feel more visually unique - eg Striking Scorpions and Banshee are very similar (both have a sword and handgun). Visually they are very similar; but flesh them out with a unique additional unit and that helps separate them.
And don't forget Yinnari has sparked a cultural change in the Craftworld Eldar. There's a sense that they might shift from the whole "we are a dying race" to "we fell, now we rise anew". We might see this with new units for aspects as they explore their aspect outside of the armour of generations; we might see it as them retaking worlds once lost; rekindling their holdings in a more direct way. Taking advantage of the instability in the Imperium to secure a power base for themselves. Preparing themselves for the storm ahead as Tyranids and Chaos are on the rise; as Necrons (their old enemy) are restoring themselves and even have their Silent King back who could re-unite them under a single banner.
Heck even with the Imperium damaged, they are building for a new Crusade and whilst Eldar did help them along that pathway, the Imperium is still Xenophobic; they will still burn Eldar worlds if they can; or will turn on the Eldar once other greater threats are gone.
I foresee that Eldar could change, their lore advancing for the first time in a long time.
I think i would rather see new Aspect Warriors introduced than different styles of already established ones.
Each of the main Craftworlds have their unique identity's:
Iyanden - Wraith Units
Alaitoc - Rangers
Saim-Hann - Jetbikes Units
Ulthwe - Guardian Units and Warlocks/Farseers
Biel-Tan - Aspect Warrior Units
Of the armies listed Biel-Tan has the most diverse access to units if we are limiting them only to the units they are most well known for. Eldar don't really need special subsets of already established Aspect Warriors. The established ones are already cool enough. I wouldn't say no to another Heavy Support Aspect Warrior though to go along with the Dark Reapers.
Those are less 'unique identities' and more just flanderization. They all have all those things, and constantly use all those things. Alaitoc doesn't go to war with just rangers ever. They bring along aspects, wake the wraiths when need be.
If you wanna use <unit>, you need to be <subfaction> is a design flaw, not something to be encouraged.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/26 04:46:00
Hopefully they won't Aspect-lock the Craftworlds, I think it's more likely each Craftworld will give some boost to a favored aspect (increased range/accuracy for Alaitoc rangers, bike speed boost for Saim-Hann and the like).
When this set comes available, I'll have to see if I can pick up the rangers - maybe the bikes if they aren't terribly expensive. Rangers are the one thing I don't have for my Craftworld "guest" army.
