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 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

Voss wrote:

Rupture Cannon heavy 3 S14 Ap-4 DD6+4

At least it doesn't ignore invulnerable saves. But it says something about how much they've warped the meta this past year: this feels... merely ok. Sure it can probably reliably drop a tank per turn with the right support, but why would anyone field tanks?

It's a fun little cold war. It can drop a tank a turn as can railguns etc. But these guns are on... tank platforms.

It's better than some main guns mounted on super heavies. Including ones with 9th edition rules.

It's better than most of them I think tbh, the in-game arms race is reaching the point of why bother, but for some reason people seem to love it and lap it up when the release comes out, or rather there's a lot of "OMG CHECK OUT THE NEW HOTNESS" type content, with bonus hatred points if they use "glow up" as a term. This isn't something anyone should be celebrating, we all want a cool codex but it shouldn't be all about wiping your opponent out the room.

Surprisingly realistic if you think about it. Tank warfare is mostly about hitting first because tank weaponry is designed to make a mockery of tank armor.

Also an example of why realism is usually not a good think in a game.

Madjob wrote:
Seeing Genestealer head options and scything talons ignored jives with what we heard about carnifex biomorphs also losing rules. Really unfortunate to see an army with some of the most clever and diverse kits as far as bit options go get boiled down this hard.

As I keep saying in the Chaos thread:

I'm less concerned with what we're getting, and more concerned about what we're losing. This sure feels like losing.

Madjob wrote:
I feel as though someone in the rule design team is identifiable by their mantra of pulling rules complexity off units and putting it into army abilities instead, we've seen similar decisions made in a couple 9E codexes by now.

But Jervis retired! Who has taken up his brusade of blandification?

Voss wrote:
Ugh. I remember when 20 shots seemed gross and out of line for the game. Now it feels gross and also just wasting my time.

Previously fleshborer hive could fire 40 shots though, and the weapon still barely got picked. Now they increased BS / AP and allow moving & firing at full effectiveness, and the weapon is more effective on most targets despite being reducing the max shots by 10 dice.

Not sure why 30 shots is a bad thing. It's effectively the same firepower as a full sized Termagant brood and a Tfex will likely cost around the same number of points.

 xttz wrote:

Voss wrote:
Ugh. I remember when 20 shots seemed gross and out of line for the game. Now it feels gross and also just wasting my time.

Previously fleshborer hive could fire 40 shots though, and the weapon still barely got picked. Now they increased BS / AP and allow moving & firing at full effectiveness, and the weapon is more effective on most targets despite being reducing the max shots by 10 dice.

When it was introduced (iirc) it and the Punisher variant for the Leman Russ were 20 shots, introduced into a game state where that was ridiculous.

Not sure why 30 shots is a bad thing. It's effectively the same firepower as a full sized Termagant brood and a Tfex will likely cost around the same number of points.

Because its a waste of time. When you're rolling & rerolling to hit, rolling (and rerolling) for wounds and then rolling (and possibly rerolling) armor saves and potentially rolling 100+ dice to resolve _just_one bloody unit, you're wasting so much time for no point or purpose.
Dice rolls should be meaningful, not resolved by the bucket, especially in a 3-step system.

At this point, you might as well swap dice for look up tables (shooter vs target) like the old Avalon Hill map & chit wargames. You'd get roughly the same results and cut out 30-60 minutes of sorting dice.

Tyran wrote:Surprisingly realistic if you think about it. Tank warfare is mostly about hitting first because tank weaponry is designed to make a mockery of tank armor.

Also an example of why realism is usually not a good think in a game.

Tank warfare games tend to go heavy on the fog of war, terrain, and spotting mechanics, so that actually finding a tank so that you can engage it is the hard part. They also tend to use things like range and obscuration to make it such that a 67% hit rate isn't your baseline, so in practice your engagements aren't immediately and overwhelmingly lethal. Starting out of range and/or out of LOS of your enemy is a bare minimum requirement.

I don't think the problem is realism. It's incredibly unrealistic to set up two forces in the open with direct line of sight to one another well within the effective range and unbroken LOS of all their instakill guns, let alone have them fire with full effectiveness out to maximum range and near-full effectiveness against targets in hard cover, and that's in a nutshell why 40K is overwhelmingly more lethal than realism-oriented historicals like Chain of Command. You can have high attack lethality without high overall game-wide lethality, but 40K doesn't support the mechanics to make that possible.

Voss wrote:

 xttz wrote:

Voss wrote:
Ugh. I remember when 20 shots seemed gross and out of line for the game. Now it feels gross and also just wasting my time.

Previously fleshborer hive could fire 40 shots though, and the weapon still barely got picked. Now they increased BS / AP and allow moving & firing at full effectiveness, and the weapon is more effective on most targets despite being reducing the max shots by 10 dice.

When it was introduced (iirc) it and the Punisher variant for the Leman Russ were 20 shots, introduced into a game state where that was ridiculous.

Not sure why 30 shots is a bad thing. It's effectively the same firepower as a full sized Termagant brood and a Tfex will likely cost around the same number of points.

Because its a waste of time. When you're rolling & rerolling to hit, rolling (and rerolling) for wounds and then rolling (and possibly rerolling) armor saves and potentially rolling 100+ dice to resolve _just_one bloody unit, you're wasting so much time for no point or purpose.
Dice rolls should be meaningful, not resolved by the bucket, especially in a 3-step system.

At this point, you might as well swap dice for look up tables (shooter vs target) like the old Avalon Hill map & chit wargames. You'd get roughly the same results and cut out 30-60 minutes of sorting dice.

Those CRTs had a lot going for them in practice. Totaling fire factors and rolling 2D6, and then potentially a 2D6 morale check, was fast and easy. At the very least, you can use binomial distribution to replace tons of tedious dice-rolling with a single 2D6 check on a table for each test.

Anyways- as annoying as it is to roll 30 shots at once, it is true that it's faster than 40 shots in the current rules despite equivalent average outcomes (BS3+ vs BS4+), and with AP-1 (because who doesn't have AP-1 these days, right?) it's at least more likely to cause damage on each hit. So it's an improvement, just... not much of one.

Those CRTs had a lot going for them in practice. Totaling fire factors and rolling 2D6, and then potentially a 2D6 morale check, was fast and easy. At the very least, you can use binomial distribution to replace tons of tedious dice-rolling with a single 2D6 check on a table for each test.

Yeah, I wasn't joking or being snide. I honestly think that would be superior to the dice buckets we've got now.

Older editions largely functioned at a decent pace, despite the three step resolution process. Now that we've settled into multiple units that are tossing 100+ dice for a single action's resolution, this system is insane.
As a computer game, with all the pointless and redundant rolling under the hood? Fine (though it could be done better). But not on a real table.

 Tyran wrote:
Today's rumors/leaks are Tyrannofex guns.

Acid Spray heavy D6+6 S6 Ap-3 D2.

Fleshborer Hive assault 30 S5 Ap-1

Rupture Cannon heavy 3 S14 Ap-4 DD6+4

Stinger Salvo assault 8 S5 Ap-1.

The Acid Spray got a good buff with the AP-3, but it lost one the amount of shot without the shot twice without moving (which 2D6 two time at AP -1 bedore). Damage D3 to flat 2 is pretty standard now.

The Fleshborer, I don't know I don't see it being used that much. If it's an option for the Tervigon that would be awesome though! On the 'Fex. I would still take one of two other choices. Maybe if the strat for +1 damage is still there is could have some use.

The Rupture Cannon got a good buff in damage, which might help the loss of shots (from firing twice, Heavy 3 is the same as now), will depend how expensive it is, but is good anti-tank for sure!

Stinger getting double shot is a bonus

Yeah, I don't get why these Tyrannofex leaks would freak anybody out -- a model that size with a weapon that size should be a massive threat. Plus, given the rumors of the chassis going to T8 2+, I bet these things will be a massive points investment; I wouldn't be surprised to see it at 250ppm. It's not really fair to leave the Tyrannofex with a slightly souped up lascannon; the Rupture Cannon should have always been comparable to a Railgun or Laser Destructor or Doomsday Cannon (though both of those latter two weapons should be buffed.)

ETA: One of my favorite bits of Cruddacery involves the Tyrannofex. Not sure when the kit was released but I think it was 6th edition. The fluff of the big feth off cannon was that it was used as a big feth off cannon, destroying heavily armored targets with ease. Cruddace's rules in the 6e codex? S10 AP4. No typo there, it was not AP -4, it was AP 4 -- so it couldn't punch through a Battle Sister's power armor. Man, Cruddace was such a hack (to Nids at least), I can only describe it as malicious.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/03/07/the-new-tyranid-codex-is-coming-so-get-your-first-look-at-its-awesome-cover-art/

Open mouth and tongue showing on most nids.... BORING is BORING!

Looking at pictures of armies models... yep still same ol same.

zamerion wrote:


https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/03/07/the-new-tyranid-codex-is-coming-so-get-your-first-look-at-its-awesome-cover-art/

Cool cover.

But are we sure Nids are next? It could just be them showing off the next Xenos cover.... /s


I'm guessing pre order at the end of this month at this point, especially if it's a single model release like most of the rumors are saying.

Just for that shot, I hope the Parasite of Mortrex is locked in a Combat Patrol.


It's funny how often the same people complaining about Community's inaccuracies take it for gospel.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Just for that shot, I hope the Parasite of Mortrex is locked in a Combat Patrol.


It's funny how often the same people complaining about Community's inaccuracies take it for gospel.

Should've left it at the joke (was a good joke!)

I don't take war-comm as gospel but I doubt they'd get something wrong that's as big as what the next codex is... they were handed the art and everything, how could they have mixed up the next book?

I like that cover.

Nice cover and I'd say the best one, so far, for 9th edition.

But at £32.50 and Genestealers rumoured to be no longer troop choices, its not happening.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/03/07/get-ready-to-gorge-on-the-galaxy-with-combat-patrol-tyranids/

Age of the models aside, I would be a bit put off to start the hobby with having to assemble and paint so many samey looking figures which will be taken off the board in droves.

Not a fan of the content.

That...is a horrible combat patrol. No variety in it at all.

1 Tyrant.
1 Warrior Brood.
3 Termagant Broods.

Absolutely horrible. Mindnumbingly so.

One could easily make a free Warrior Prime out of that set: take the leftover tail from the Winged Tyrant and make a snake-Prime.

 Gene St. Ealer wrote:

Should've left it at the joke (was a good joke!)

I don't take war-comm as gospel but I doubt they'd get something wrong that's as big as what the next codex is... they were handed the art and everything, how could they have mixed up the next book?

Wording matters. They had the art but the announcement was done in such a way that it could have very well been simply announcing the next Xenos book. We already knew Chaos was due for a new book, what with them having been the other half in Eldritch Omens...and GW actually having said that they're getting one in 2022.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Just for that shot, I hope the Parasite of Mortrex is locked in a Combat Patrol.


It's funny how often the same people complaining about Community's inaccuracies take it for gospel.

Well it was pretty mild punch at those grasping at straws and being just plain silly. Gw said tyranids next, bunch of people think they know better than gw. Some people just are　unable to think with remote sense of logic.

Don’t forget the rippers.

We’ll see what the new rules look like for playability, but while the models are going to be monotonous, if you need to field them in large blocks, this could be a way to get them to the table without killing your budget. Until you max out how many tyrants/warriors you want.

As someone who built my tyrant with wings, I could use one on foot. And there is always the swarmlord.

I wasn’t planning on another brood of gaunts, but might need more to carpet the table properly, especially if stealers are not troops.

Old gaunts in the box mean that people who said that Parasite could be our only new model were probably right :(

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
That...is a horrible combat patrol. No variety in it at all.

1 Tyrant.
1 Warrior Brood.
3 Termagant Broods.

Absolutely horrible. Mindnumbingly so.

Yeah, this one is really bad. It puts to rest the Rumor from Valrak about a updated Gant kit, unless we are getting an updated Hormagaunt kit. Probably just going to be the Parasite.

Yea similar boat in that my army uses Genestealers for all its troop slots so this box might be a mandatory buy thanks to that...

I do find the lack of hormagaunts suspicious. Assuming CP boxes stick around through the next cycle of codexes, it makes the possibility of a larger range refresh for the start of 10th feel a little more real.

tneva82 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Just for that shot, I hope the Parasite of Mortrex is locked in a Combat Patrol.


It's funny how often the same people complaining about Community's inaccuracies take it for gospel.

Well it was pretty mild punch at those grasping at straws and being just plain silly. Gw said tyranids next, bunch of people think they know better than gw. Some people just are　unable to think with remote sense of logic.

GW said Tyranids are the next Xenos army. Miss me with the insults, because there's actual ambiguity there.

a_typical_hero wrote:
Age of the models aside, I would be a bit put off to start the hobby with having to assemble and paint so many samey looking figures which will be taken off the board in droves.

Yeah, it would be super weird if the archetype of Tyranids was an endless swarm of biomorphs led by larger C&C creatures

At the very least it gives you the 'Nid basics unlike the SC box which was "Start Collecting: Genestealers plus a random Mawloc/Trygon".

Good gods, get over the fact that you were wrong. Not sure why you're doubling down now.


----
That box is... something.
At the new prices its $150 vs $234.

After Elfs, TS, and GK, that pushes it into..May? We know elfs after the other two, which are April.

zamerion wrote:


https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/03/07/get-ready-to-gorge-on-the-galaxy-with-combat-patrol-tyranids/

Maybe I've missed it but this is the first time I can recall seeing official GW Termagant models with Spine Fists

I don't have the combat patrol as much as everybody else, but yeah, I'm pretty whelmed. Though I started my Nids with a bunch of Termagants and Hormagaunts -- it seems like a pretty natural box even if it's not very exciting.