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Gargoyle datasheet has been leaked. The gargoyle statline is unchanged, but it confirms the fleshborers statline being Assault 1 18" S5 AP-1 D1.

The face looks more inspired by generation 1 (original game) scourge from the Zerg - the little air suicide creatures. Them mixed with the alien queen's head - although honestly the shape of the crest more makes me think inspired by the second generation (3rd edition) hive tyrant crest.

I'm a little concerned that with the weapon stat bloat that Gargoyles and Termagants are just going to be too expensive to field.

That is a BIG jump stat increase for fleshborers. At this rate I actually expect lasguns to have a stat boost as well.

 Sasori wrote:
I'm a little concerned that with the weapon stat bloat that Gargoyles and Termagants are just going to be too expensive to field.

I wouldnt worry about that if you pay attention to any recent release lol.

The New books seem to just be ramping up lethality yet again at little to know cost. I bet there is some free army doctrine that will somehow let them advance and shoot as stationary with additional AP. Seems to be the go to at the moment lol.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grimskul wrote:
That is a BIG jump stat increase for fleshborers. At this rate I actually expect lasguns to have a stat boost as well.

Assault 3 24" with s4 ap -1 at half range? lol Who even knows anymore.

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Sasori wrote:
I'm a little concerned that with the weapon stat bloat that Gargoyles and Termagants are just going to be too expensive to field.

I wouldnt worry about that if you pay attention to any recent release lol.

The New books seem to just be ramping up lethality yet again at little to know cost. I bet there is some free army doctrine that will somehow let them advance and shoot as stationary with additional AP. Seems to be the go to at the moment lol.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grimskul wrote:
That is a BIG jump stat increase for fleshborers. At this rate I actually expect lasguns to have a stat boost as well.

Assault 3 24" with s4 ap -1 at half range? lol Who even knows anymore.

If it wasn't a horde unit, I'd be less concerned. It doesn't take much to price them out though.

LOL, I called it when they decided to up the basic Shuriken weapons for Eldar. If that Fleshborer stat is true, its hilarious that it'll wound Marines and T3 at the same rate.

So devourers are crap now and its all about Fleshborers?

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
So devourers are crap now and its all about Fleshborers?

Have we seen the stats on them yet? IIRC one source of leaks basically said that it was the case, but not sure if that was hyperbole or not.

In any case there is a great new combat patrol to help you re-buy all the gribbles you need!

EviscerationPlague wrote:
LOL, I called it when they decided to up the basic Shuriken weapons for Eldar. If that Fleshborer stat is true, its hilarious that it'll wound Marines and T3 at the same rate.

I can't wait for Marines with buffed toughness in their 2.0 Codex.

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
So devourers are crap now and its all about Fleshborers?

Yes.

Although I'm hoping for some spinefist buff.

 Tyran wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
So devourers are crap now and its all about Fleshborers?

Yes.

Although I'm hoping for some spinefist buff.

I'm not. I spent too much time breaking off all my spinefists and replacing them with devs or borers when they got nerfed to crap and stayed that way for multiple editions.

Voss wrote:

 Tyran wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
So devourers are crap now and its all about Fleshborers?

Yes.

Although I'm hoping for some spinefist buff.

I'm not. I spent too much time breaking off all my spinefists and replacing them with devs or borers when they got nerfed to crap and stayed that way for multiple editions.

Spinefists used to actually be good!? When?

I started playing 40k (Nids were my first army) in 5e btw.

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

Voss wrote:

 Tyran wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
So devourers are crap now and its all about Fleshborers?

Yes.

Although I'm hoping for some spinefist buff.

I'm not. I spent too much time breaking off all my spinefists and replacing them with devs or borers when they got nerfed to crap and stayed that way for multiple editions.

Spinefists used to actually be good!? When?

I started playing 40k (Nids were my first army) in 5e btw.

They used to have Strength of Model plus as many shots as the model base attack stat x2 I believe. That was 4th edition.


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I still have most my gaunts as spine fists.

IIRC they were only base attack X1. But they were also twinlinked.

Devourers were the ones with base attack X2, but -1 to strength.

Spinefists used to be popular because they were free, if memory serves

Spinefists were good in 4th ed mainly because they were a point cheaper than fleshborers. They were the best option if you wanted to maximise your model count.
The gun was still garbage, but it was very cheap garbage.

I will emphasize that while I am not a fan of the Parasite model I am specifically not a fan of how the pieces are put together; I feel it is less than the sum of its parts. But the parts are really good; it would be a gold mine for pieces to make other conversions with.

 Sasori wrote:
I'm a little concerned that with the weapon stat bloat that Gargoyles and Termagants are just going to be too expensive to field.

Yeah, that is way too strong for what is supposed to be a cheap spammy gun. Every termagant is really running around with a weapon of higher strength than a bolter? That just doesn't feel right thematically.

I'm a little leery about new fleshborers too. Maybe we won't keep the Scorch Bugs strat? Surely we won't, actually... wounding Marines on 2s with fleshborers is just nuts.

Part of me is glad to see it, as in the current meta, without some buffs, they would be pure tax, and risk the whole book being DOA.

The other part of me weeps for the power creep and prays for a reset to some sanity.

Seriously, is there any weapon in 9E in the new books that isn’t at least AP -1 anymore?

Wait 'til the Lasgun gets AP-1, and we're back to 2nd Ed all over again.

 Stormonu wrote:
Seriously, is there any weapon in 9E in the new books that isn’t at least AP -1 anymore?

Yes. Splinter Pistols, Splinter Rifles, etc.

Hence why Kabalite Warriors are presently gathering dust on shelves, 'Eldar Guardian but with vastly worse shooting' is not really appealing for an ostensibly shooting unit.

I’m waiting for power armour (except chaos of course) to get a flat “ignore the first pip of AP” rule. As well as a point cut.

 vipoid wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:
Seriously, is there any weapon in 9E in the new books that isn’t at least AP -1 anymore?

Yes. Splinter Pistols, Splinter Rifles, etc.

Hence why Kabalite Warriors are presently gathering dust on shelves, 'Eldar Guardian but with vastly worse shooting' is not really appealing for an ostensibly shooting unit.

And funnily enough, bolters.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Yeah, that is way too strong for what is supposed to be a cheap spammy gun. Every termagant is really running around with a weapon of higher strength than a bolter? That just doesn't feel right thematically.

Out of curiousity I did some quick mathhammer:

At the very start of 8E it took an average of 12 S4 fleshborers to kill 0.99 MEQ models (with of course 1 wound).
Right now using this profile without any strats or other special rules on either side, 12 fleshborers kill a grand total of... 0.99 2W marines.

From an anti-marine POV all that's happened is gaunts catching up to exactly where they were before 9E. Except of course when any transhuman or ignore AP abilities are in play, in which case they're worse off.

 Stormonu wrote:
Seriously, is there any weapon in 9E in the new books that isn’t at least AP -1 anymore?

Firstborn bolters.

 Tyran wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:
Seriously, is there any weapon in 9E in the new books that isn’t at least AP -1 anymore?

Yes. Splinter Pistols, Splinter Rifles, etc.

Hence why Kabalite Warriors are presently gathering dust on shelves, 'Eldar Guardian but with vastly worse shooting' is not really appealing for an ostensibly shooting unit.

And funnily enough, bolters.

I assume things will happen with the bolter. In fact, I can't see it NOT happening at this point, barring a full retreat and abandonment of 8e/9e design principles.
I hope that the giant list of bloat just gets piled into 1 profile (probably based on the bolt rifle)

 xttz wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Yeah, that is way too strong for what is supposed to be a cheap spammy gun. Every termagant is really running around with a weapon of higher strength than a bolter? That just doesn't feel right thematically.

Out of curiousity I did some quick mathhammer:

At the very start of 8E it took an average of 12 S4 fleshborers to kill 0.99 MEQ models (with of course 1 wound).
Right now using this profile without any strats or other special rules on either side, 12 fleshborers kill a grand total of... 0.99 2W marines.

From an anti-marine POV all that's happened is gaunts catching up to exactly where they were before 9E. Except of course when any transhuman or ignore AP abilities are in play, in which case they're worse off.

Red queen in full effect in 40k huh

Really not keen on the increase in strength of the fleshborer. It feels like a bad solution to what to do with these horde units. Rather than drop the cost and truly embrace a horde for termagaunts, we have raised their effectiveness by a huge amount, which means that they are going to have to cost.
And i concur, feels thematically wrong for these guns to be dangerous to marines. Guardsmen, yes, but marines? They will need to redo the Space marine 2 trailer if these are their new guns!

Unless the next marine dex is putting all the marines up to toughness 5...