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I always think forum polls are interesting because you do get a large body of people who never talk or elaborate their vote. I do think its important that with forum polls to take both the numerical results, but also the active response in the thread into account.
Eg you might have a lot of people vote one way but no one comments on it. Does this mean a lot of the people that voted for it just voted and didn't think through what they voted on; did they just pick the "middle" because its easy and non committal; did they pick a yes or a no extreme out of gut feeling but not actually considering it.
Or is there one or two people in the comments heavily posting all the time to support one angle; giving the impression its the popular choice, when in reality its hardly been voted on at all compared to the majority of the votes.
Well, I haven't voted on the poll. I might support such a mechanism simply as a way for others to save time in responding negatively to some of the things that I post, about e.g. not liking restartes and wishing that they had been introduced as new models for OG marines instead, and so on. I mean, I might be repetitive about such issues, and so such posts might not warrant a direct response.
That aside, risking that I might poison the neutral polling environment, I am personally not in favour of introducing a dislike button or a downvote button or whatever it might be called (with varying results which is interesting, having come out of discussion above). Rather i favour the suggestion that the best down vote is simply not engaging, or at worst ignoring a given 'naut should her or his opinions (and more importantly, expressed attitude) tend to run contrary enough with my own that I would rather not be exposed.
Again, the idea came to mind merely as a way to save others time, as I read through a post which was not only dismissive of my own post but also insulting, seeming intolerant and angry. So, I figured that maybe a down vote or dislike button might be useful and save that other poster the bad feelings...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/02/03 11:06:40
I think saving time is great, but its also dangerous.
I recall one of the Warcraft developers talking about why Classic WoW was suddenly very popular even though it was going back to a much older and less "streamlined" way of running many aspects of the game. One thought he had, outside of it being nostalgia, is that sometimes when you streamline a process to be more and more efficient in a time sense; you can lose a lot of points of interaction that add to the experience in general.
I think with discussion forums there's a risk when you add lots of like and dislike buttons and others in that people stop talking. Instead of taking the 2 mins to post "I like it" and perhaps even end up in a conversation with someone; they throw a like on it. This lets you get likes really fast and easily; however after time it loses the social connection. You're no longer interacting with people, you're just gathering votes on something. Which vast devalues the individual "vote" when its positive and vastly over values it when its in the negative.
Suddenly 5 "like" votes isn't enough you need 50 or 500 or 5000 to feel like it has real value. And along the way you've lost the conversations, the human to human interaction. The elaboration on what someone did or didn't like or engage with and more.
I think with discussion forums there's a risk when you add lots of like and dislike buttons and others in that people stop talking. Instead of taking the 2 mins to post "I like it" and perhaps even end up in a conversation with someone; they throw a like on it. This lets you get likes really fast and easily; however after time it loses the social connection. You're no longer interacting with people, you're just gathering votes on something. Which vast devalues the individual "vote" when its positive and vastly over values it when its in the negative.
Suddenly 5 "like" votes isn't enough you need 50 or 500 or 5000 to feel like it has real value. And along the way you've lost the conversations, the human to human interaction. The elaboration on what someone did or didn't like or engage with and more.
Exalted!
No seriously, this is a really good point. Posting requires effort and once you get in the habit of posting you tend to try and say something new rather than just "Yes!" or "This!". But if you offer a menu of response buttons people fall out of the habit of posting meaningful replies. "Press F to express condolences".
I agree, and appreciate that insight from WoW. That is why I spend my time here. Before getting into a paper or getting off of my computer, to walk the dogs or whatever needs done away from the desk, I will often open Dakka and either engage with a post or a thread, or walk away with something to think about. For me, this interaction takes the place of the salon atmosphere that I remember from when I would hang out at the local hobby store. I guess I fell in love with this sort of atmosphere when I was about 12 or 13, first time playing D&D in the basement of a hobby shop near my hometown with a bunch of much older people whose discussions I would witness... not much to add at the time, maybe that is the value for me in all this as I get to play out those episodes with something to add.
That said often enough, I do end up posting "This^^" and adding an exalt a lot of times.
No seriously, this is a really good point. Posting requires effort and once you get in the habit of posting you tend to try and say something new rather than just "Yes!" or "This!". But if you offer a menu of response buttons people fall out of the habit of posting meaningful replies. "Press F to express condolences".
This^
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jeff white wrote: I dunno, 20% is a lot of people. I mean, it is not a competition. There is no "winning" side... the idea is simply to have a discussion. If 1 in 5 people around me had an opinion, heck, if 1 in 1000 had an opinion, that was different from mine, I would hope to have the warmth of heart to respect that. But, different strokes, I guess... which is the point of the poll, after all.
Now seeing your signature text, ...
If it were 20% (now 24%) of a sizeable sample of the active userbase then I'd agree. But at the point I am posting this reply there are 7,761 active users (290 registered members, 7,471 guests). This poll has 90 votes. That is not a suitable sample size to allow for extrapolating to the userbase as a whole.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/02/03 18:08:21
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
The downvote is just another metric for determining engagement, along with the likes. To YouTube's algorithm, there is no difference between the two. Dakka has no need for that metric. Youtube now hides downvotes in many places anyways.
No seriously, this is a really good point. Posting requires effort and once you get in the habit of posting you tend to try and say something new rather than just "Yes!" or "This!". But if you offer a menu of response buttons people fall out of the habit of posting meaningful replies. "Press F to express condolences".
This^
Automatically Appended Next Post:
jeff white wrote: I dunno, 20% is a lot of people. I mean, it is not a competition. There is no "winning" side... the idea is simply to have a discussion. If 1 in 5 people around me had an opinion, heck, if 1 in 1000 had an opinion, that was different from mine, I would hope to have the warmth of heart to respect that. But, different strokes, I guess... which is the point of the poll, after all.
Now seeing your signature text, ...
If it were 20% (now 24%) of a sizeable sample of the active userbase then I'd agree. But at the point I am posting this reply there are 7,761 active users (290 registered members, 7,471 guests). This poll has 90 votes. That is not a suitable sample size to allow for extrapolating to the userbase as a whole.
What does that matter? Why the need to extrapolate? Taking this point to its logical conclusion, what does the poll mean at all? It is only a device for discourse, with some dimensionally reduced conversation point at which we might gesture… I maintain that the people who voted yes are important. I suppose that they are not statistically relevant? I simply do not understand the reasoning here…
Isn't the low value vote options on the gallery sort oflike a downvote already?
"But me no buts! Our comrades get hurt. Our friends die. Falkenburg is a knight who swore an oath to serve the church and to defend the weak. He'd be the first to tell you to stop puling and start planning. Because what we are doing-at risk to ourselves-is what we have sworn to do. The West relies on us. It is a risk we take with pride. It is an oath we honour. Even when some soft southern burgher mutters about us, we know the reason he sleeps soft and comfortable, why his wife is able to complain about the price of cabbages as her most serious problem and why his children dare to throw dung and yell "Knot" when we pass. It's because we are what we are. For all our faults we stand for law and light.
Von Gherens This Rough Magic Lackey, Flint & Freer
Mekagorkalicious -Monkeytroll
2017 Model Count-71
Looks like 24 people want to be vindictive and downvote people they don't like, as what possible other reason is there for a 'dislike' button outside of corporate interests.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: No seriously, this is a really good point. Posting requires effort and once you get in the habit of posting you tend to try and say something new rather than just "Yes!" or "This!". But if you offer a menu of response buttons people fall out of the habit of posting meaningful replies. "Press F to express condolences".
*HBMC likes this post*
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/02/05 06:04:41
H.B.M.C. wrote: Looks like 24 people want to be vindictive and downvote people they don't like, as what possible other reason is there for a 'dislike' button outside of corporate interests.
Ha! Though really it is corporate interests that remove dislike buttons (or at least visible effects of a dislike button).
For what other possible reason? Well, it would be cathartic if RedStarOne/Matthew Bonder/ Daniel Mandelbaum came back to see them downvote into oblivion.
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
Nope. I prefer the trifecta of
• Exalted posts
• Regular posts
• Adding users to ignore list
"The larger point though, is that as players, we have more control over what the game looks and feels like than most of us are willing to use in order to solve our own problems"
For what other possible reason? Well, it would be cathartic if RedStarOne/Matthew Bonder/ Daniel Mandelbaum came back to see them downvote into oblivion.
Nah, it's much more cathartic seeing him get the much needed textual beat downs he gets.
You know you're really doing something when you can make strangers hate you over the Internet. - Mauleed
Just remember folks. Panic. Panic all the time. It's the only way to survive, other than just being mindful, of course-but geez, that's so friggin' boring. - Aegis Grimm
Hallowed is the All Pie The Before Times: A Place That Celebrates The World That Was
In my experience, downvoting mechanics are mostly pointless. They're mostly a mechanic for group think/circle jerking, and the internet does great at those things without the help. Reinforcing bad behaviors negates the completely zero upsides of downvoting, turning the entire concept into pure negative.
In my experience, downvoting mechanics are mostly pointless. They're mostly a mechanic for group think/circle jerking, and the internet does great at those things without the help. Reinforcing bad behaviors negates the completely zero upsides of downvoting, turning the entire concept into pure negative.
given that exalts do...........nothing, like, sure? I dont really know what it would do?
You cant even see if a thing has been exalted IIRC.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
I'd join you in downvoting both AoS *and* T9A, because Classichammer rules.
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Kid_Kyoto wrote: Posting requires effort and once you get in the habit of posting you tend to try and say something new rather than just "Yes!" or "This!". But if you offer a menu of response buttons people fall out of the habit of posting meaningful replies.
Ditto.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/02/13 04:59:10
> And, the ignore button is really useful, but then again there have been times where I have un-ignored people after seeing something quoted in a different 'naut's post and thinking, OK, maybe this person was having a bad day or something in the past, but actually has something interesting to say so ...
After three or so petty, non-contributing, or insistently ignorant posts, I'll start Ignoring someone, and only one of them has made it back.
Anyway, BGG also tried downvotes, and the feature was soon removed. So not a popular feature and a waste of coding time.
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