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Flipsiders wrote: Super late edit: It should be noted that Cassius isn't dead; he's just not an Ultramarine anymore, so it wouldn't be easy to make a Primaris-scale version of his non-Deathwatch model. I definitely knew that the whole time and did not just look up whether he was dead about five minutes ago.
Unless I've missed something in his timeline - which is possible, as I didn't get the Ultramarines supplement - the version of Cassius being "retired" here is after the plastic Deathwatch version from... Kill Team Cassius (and which boxed set it was in initially), hence why he has come down with a bad case of Bioacid Melted Face Syndrome.
Still seems very odd that they'd retire two plastic kits here.
Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.
Kanluwen wrote: This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.
Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...
tneva82 wrote: You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling.
- No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something...
Stormonu wrote: I’ll be curious to see if GW drops the “rotated out” models from Codexes, especially if 3rd party versions become more prominent.
It's interesting that the Warhammer Community article phrases it very carefully:
GW wrote:The rotated models remain fully legal in all forms of play – narrative, matched, and open.
They're not committing to rules in the relevant codices. You might think so, and it's not specifically ruled out either, but if they were so inclined, they could easily move the rules to Legends for that statement to hold true.
We won't even have to take screenshots of the article for fear that GW tries to rewrite history again. They've been clever and noncommittal this time around.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I'd be very surprised if we got a Primaris Tycho.
Don't be silly. Crossing the Rubicon Primaris is a dangerous prospect and more Firstborn die in the attempt than survive.
How could you then not expect to get Primaris Tycho?
Flipsiders wrote: Super late edit: It should be noted that Cassius isn't dead; he's just not an Ultramarine anymore, so it wouldn't be easy to make a Primaris-scale version of his non-Deathwatch model. I definitely knew that the whole time and did not just look up whether he was dead about five minutes ago.
Unless I've missed something in his timeline - which is possible, as I didn't get the Ultramarines supplement - the version of Cassius being "retired" here is after the plastic Deathwatch version from... Kill Team Cassius (and which boxed set it was in initially), hence why he has come down with a bad case of Bioacid Melted Face Syndrome.
Yes, unless there's been a ridiculous retcon Deathwatch Cassius is a historical character and melted face Cassius is the current, returned to the chapter version.
Dysartes wrote: Still seems very odd that they'd retire two plastic kits here.
I've been wondering about that myself, especially about Artemis, but in his case I could see oversaturation causing a serious decline in sales. He was introduced in a battle box and instead of going on individual sale later, he went into a start collecting that people would likely want multiples of for the troops. There have to be plenty of Artemises around because of that, probably at better prices than retail as well.
I think the Blood Angels Terminator Captain may have had much the same issue as the character in the Blood Angels start collecting box.
Nehekhara lives! Sort of!
Why is the rum always gone?
It's interesting that the Warhammer Community article phrases it very carefully:
GW wrote:The rotated models remain fully legal in all forms of play – narrative, matched, and open.
They're not committing to rules in the relevant codices. You might think so, and it's not specifically ruled out either, but if they were so inclined, they could easily move the rules to Legends for that statement to hold true.
If they say the models are good for matched play, its a pretty clear statement they wont end up in legends (for now).
Perhaps GW will do a big box of heroes for BA. They have about a dozen iconic named characters that need to be updated from finecast.
It's interesting that the Warhammer Community article phrases it very carefully:
GW wrote:The rotated models remain fully legal in all forms of play – narrative, matched, and open.
They're not committing to rules in the relevant codices. You might think so, and it's not specifically ruled out either, but if they were so inclined, they could easily move the rules to Legends for that statement to hold true.
If they say the models are good for matched play, its a pretty clear statement they wont end up in legends (for now).
Perhaps GW will do a big box of heroes for BA. They have about a dozen iconic named characters that need to be updated from finecast.
You sure about that, Fayric? Here's the intro copy from the Legends page on WHC, talking about Warhammer 40,000 Legends:
"The Warhammer 40,000 Legends page contains datasheets and additional wargear options, definitive profiles that will live on their own dedicated page, enabling you to unleash your treasured classics in open, narrative and matched play games, with full points provided to help you balance your games."
Similar verbiage is at the start of each PDF, though it does recommend they not get used in "competitive tournaments", but they should be fair game in any other sort of game.
Which reminds me - need to email GW about the models currently missing from the Legends PDFs...
Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.
Kanluwen wrote: This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.
Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...
tneva82 wrote: You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling.
- No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something...
Yeah, I should have probably quoted that part in my earlier post. Common practice and belief regarding Legends in the community are not the same as GW's official stance. And of course, GW policy is based on the latter.
Nehekhara lives! Sort of!
Why is the rum always gone?
Geifer wrote: Don't be silly. Crossing the Rubicon Primaris is a dangerous prospect and more Firstborn die in the attempt than survive.
How could you then not expect to get Primaris Tycho?
'Cause he's already dead!
Far past dead, not "I can stuff him in a Dreadnought" dead. He fully died in the third war of Armageddon against the Orks. It seems some have forgotten that some of the characters in the timeline are still usable despite having had their proper deaths in the timeline long ago already.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/02/13 12:55:21
I bet my clown allowance this will start here, and start hitting other peoples armies soon and then it starts with the screaming and wailing, no one screams when they trim some marines but we'll hear it soon boys and girls and when they come back I bet they'll cost a fair high amount as well, if they ever come back at all.
A Town Called Malus wrote: The "these models have been around for 10-20 years, you've had all that time to buy them" argument overlooks that many people have not been playing the game for 10-20 years, or were not playing the armies that these models were for 10-20 years ago. If someone buys their first codex and loves the fluff/model/rules for a "rotated" model, telling them that said model was around for 20 years before they started playing the game and that they should have somehow had the prescience to buy it then is just being a dick.
What people who want to help new players should tell them instead would be the fact these models were tiny, ugly, had bad details, and looked out of place even next to tactical marines, never mind primaris, and that the sane (and actually better looking/cheaper) option would be to just kitbash them. Or buy them second hand if they must, but really should skip them altogether due to crap material that was really new modeller unfriendly, no matter if metal or resin.
Of course that doesn't fit outrage narrative because that would kept the thread on a single page, better whine and bash endlessly, eh?
Breton wrote: They also explicitly said they will probably return with the new codex, and could be returning as a new model in a new form i.e. crossing the Rubicon.
Yup. Don't know why people act like this is somehow a contradiction, AoS did made to order of Alarielle and Nagash from WFB right next to AoS versions of these characters. Even if say Corbulo gets primaris version, GW will very much bring him back in his old, gak form occasionally to doubledip.
People in here thinking new players are going to want their dad's models and be mad when someone tells them the models that are older then them are not available.
It'd be like me being mad I couldn't get Rogue Trader marines in the late 90s lol.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/02/13 17:04:44
Kanluwen wrote: I think you people seriously need to actually learn what FOMO is beyond a buzzword.
Just accept that they mean forced scarcity. Or that GW is trying to create artificial demand for models that don't sell very well.
It isn't hard to figure out from the context.
In this case FOMO is completely appropriate. It's not just enforced scarcity, the whole point of the announcement is "if you don't buy now who knows when you'll have another chance!" which is the essence of FOMO.
Gert wrote: But what makes it FOMO? Just because GW is giving people notice to order the models before they're removed from sale?
I think GW's doing the right thing, nice to have warning I hope they keep it up.
It's a bit different from Fear of Missing Out since, well, there is no fear, you know for certain these are going OOP (supposedly to return in our hour of greatest need).
FOMO is more like the Outcasts gang that disappeared with no warning only to be repackaged with a price hike.
Exactly, it's the kind of thing LCTB should have been. The amount of money I would have dropped on the R&H range if I'd had prep time would have been irresponsible.
It's a bit different from Fear of Missing Out since, well, there is no fear, you know for certain these are going OOP (supposedly to return in our hour of greatest need).
That's not how fear of missing out works. If that were the case then limited availability stuff in digital stores such as, say, Fortnite wouldn't be using FOMO.
You know you only have a month to grind your way to that chicken dance emote or whatever. But what if you don't get far enough into this months rotation to unlock it? Well, there's that booster you can buy to help you out...
Basically, FOMO is any usage of the perception of limited availability to psychologically affect people's behaviour in relation to getting "that thing".
You want a thing. You know company that sells a thing sometimes randomly pulls things from its store, so you'd better buy it now just in case it isn't available later. That is FOMO.
You want a thing. Company tells you that you only have a week to buy said thing before it is gone for a completely unspecified amount of time, so you'd better buy it now or who knows when you can get it next, if ever. That is also FOMO.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/02/13 19:29:00
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
This absolutely is FOMO.
If you don't order now, you'll miss out on these for who knows how long.
If they just dropped them, sure that would suck more, but there is no possibility of the FEAR part of FOMO driving potential sales, because it's too late.
So by announcing that these models will be rotating out for who knows how long, GW is using FOMO tactics to encourage a few sales before they shelf these options for a while.
Then if they do return, it's possible GW could do a Limited time only Made-to-order release, essentially double dipping in the FOMO.
I honestly don't blame them. The Marine range is so overstuffed and currently pushing Primaris over other options, that I'm not surprised these First-born characters aren't selling.
It makes business sense to stop producing them for a while.
They are nice enough to let us know, but sales generated by this announcement will absolutely be because on FOMO.
Not sure why people are saying otherwise
-
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/02/13 19:39:21
AngryAngel80 wrote: I bet my clown allowance this will start here, and start hitting other peoples armies soon and then it starts with the screaming and wailing, no one screams when they trim some marines but we'll hear it soon boys and girls and when they come back I bet they'll cost a fair high amount as well, if they ever come back at all.
It hit other armies a long time ago. Vect is no more.
I am still miffed that GW rotated the female marine sculpts out of their SKUs.
Breton wrote: As far as Finecast vs Plastic - The generic DA captain is going on rotation but not Sammael or Belial or Azrael. The chapter that doesn’t trust Primaris and is unlikely to have many. Now so does Fleshtearers, but they sell less. And don’t have one and a half to two special companies of first born. Ravenwing recognizes Outriders as basic bikers, but Deathwing doesn’t recognize (give ObSec to) Bladeguard.
And I’m still wondering how they’re going to retcon Cassius and Tycho.
Why would they retcon Cassius and Tycho? They're putting the molds on a shelf, not deleting them from the codexes.
Because Cassius wasn't with the Deathwatch while Primaris were there - I believe there's even a blurb about that being an earlier Cassius and he shouldn't be taken with Primaris. And Tycho spoiler ahead:
Breton wrote: As far as Finecast vs Plastic - The generic DA captain is going on rotation but not Sammael or Belial or Azrael. The chapter that doesn’t trust Primaris and is unlikely to have many. Now so does Fleshtearers, but they sell less. And don’t have one and a half to two special companies of first born. Ravenwing recognizes Outriders as basic bikers, but Deathwing doesn’t recognize (give ObSec to) Bladeguard.
And I’m still wondering how they’re going to retcon Cassius and Tycho.
Why would they retcon Cassius and Tycho? They're putting the molds on a shelf, not deleting them from the codexes.
I believe they're suggesting that Cassius and Tycho will eventually have new Primaris-scale models of themselves released, despite the characters themselves facing, you know...
Complications.
Super late edit: It should be noted that Cassius isn't dead; he's just not an Ultramarine anymore, so it wouldn't be easy to make a Primaris-scale version of his non-Deathwatch model. I definitely knew that the whole time and did not just look up whether he was dead about five minutes ago.
Not quite but close. Their complication is those models with Primaris on the same table. And I think you have Cassius backwards - he's an Ultramarine again (Their Master of Sanctity) and he was Deathwatch when he was younger, before he was a Master of Sanctity (only the one extra Litany as Deathwatch) I don't think Tycho gets a Primaris version. A) its a little late for that B) they probably want a BA named captain with a "better" name for IP purposes. Its one thing to share it with the bible, its another to share it with LucasArts. I think he gets retired and replaced with a Gravis Boltstorm + unique captain. I'm not sure what to think with Cassius - but my preferred guess is he crosses the rubicon and goes back to the Deathwatch full time. The current UM Cassius is a little broken and way too cheap.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
H.B.M.C. wrote: I'd be very surprised if we got a Primaris Tycho.
So would Tycho. As mentioned I think they get a new named Gravis Captain - Boltstorm and something unique but BA flavored. Power Axe, Thunderhammer type relic. They still have Dante for the Jump packs, there isn't a Fight Phase Primaris Jump Pack.. so lean into the BA Terminator Captain that just went on Rotation, make him Gravis, Primaris, and named.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Geifer wrote: Yeah, I should have probably quoted that part in my earlier post. Common practice and belief regarding Legends in the community are not the same as GW's official stance. And of course, GW policy is based on the latter.
Well that and the most obvious out -
On 2/12/2022
Models are still legal
On 7/21/2022 new Supplement Drops.
Model moves to Legends.
Technically No conflict.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
ZebioLizard2 wrote: Far past dead, not "I can stuff him in a Dreadnought" dead. He fully died in the third war of Armageddon against the Orks. It seems some have forgotten that some of the characters in the timeline are still usable despite having had their proper deaths in the timeline long ago already.
And that's the retcon I'm REALLY looking forward to.
Bellisarius Cawl: Bjorn! We can return you to the living by having you cross the Rubicon Primaris! The new organs would allow you to live outside of this Dreadnaught Sarcophagus! Breathe fresh air!
Bjorn: I'm not sure I trust you.
BC: Let me try! You could be a living hero walking with a Primarch again!
Bjorn: <sigh> all right.
Fade to black.
Bjorn wakes up in a new sarcophagus and asks "What happened?"
Cawl: There we complications. You're now a Primaris Marine but you wouldn't have survived the surgery, so we had to put you in a Redemptor. With a Heavy Onslaught Gatling Canon, and a Redempter Ice Lightning Claw. Its the first of its kind and we gave it to you to make up for this.
Just for S&G's, who do you think will be on round two of this rotation?
My guess:
Spoiler:
Lord Castellan Creed (IG; He's vanished into the warp since 8th, and it's a hundred years later, correct?)
Vargard Obyron (Necrons)
Nemesor Zahndrekh (Necrons)
Imotekh the Stormlord (Necrons) [replaced with plastic]
Trazyn the Infinite (Necrons)
Anrakyn the Traveler (Necrons)
Necron Lord with Ressurection Orb (Necrons)
Necron Lord with Warscythe (Necrons)
Orikan the Diviner (Necrons)
Cryptek (Necrons; the resin one)
The Red Terror (Tyranids)
Night Lords Chaos Lords (CSM)
