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Whelp Chaos just got the War.com push. So there, they won't be last. Guessing it's knights. Can't say Knights suck in 9th if 10th comes out a month after Knights do!

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Whelp Chaos just got the War.com push. So there, they won't be last. Guessing it's knights. Can't say Knights suck in 9th if 10th comes out a month after Knights do!

[Citation Required]

While there have been a number of articles featuring Chaos this week, all the ones I've seen have been directly tied into the Kill Team box that goes up for pre-order this weekend. I've yet to see any articles aimed at an upcoming Codex: Chaos Space Marines - unlike Tyranids, for example...

Voss wrote:
Feels like daemons will be last. (nobody needs a 2.0, especially not before everyone else is done).

We've had hints, rumor engines or even new models (Chaos Marines) for everything else. (Including a glancing clip of a knight during some video or other). Daemons... nada.

I'm not even sure if GW knows how to make daemons a functional army on its own. Especially monogod.

Wasn't the credible rumor that Chaos is coming in the Summer and it's supposed to be broken as all heck? Or did I hallucinate that?

 Dysartes wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Whelp Chaos just got the War.com push. So there, they won't be last. Guessing it's knights. Can't say Knights suck in 9th if 10th comes out a month after Knights do!

[Citation Required]

While there have been a number of articles featuring Chaos this week, all the ones I've seen have been directly tied into the Kill Team box that goes up for pre-order this weekend. I've yet to see any articles aimed at an upcoming Codex: Chaos Space Marines - unlike Tyranids, for example...

They were also in the new Aeldari Boxed set. I wouldn't be surprised if they were in the pipe right behind Nids - Aeldari, Nids, Chaos Space Marines, .....

 Togusa wrote:

Voss wrote:
Feels like daemons will be last. (nobody needs a 2.0, especially not before everyone else is done).

We've had hints, rumor engines or even new models (Chaos Marines) for everything else. (Including a glancing clip of a knight during some video or other). Daemons... nada.

I'm not even sure if GW knows how to make daemons a functional army on its own. Especially monogod.

Wasn't the credible rumor that Chaos is coming in the Summer and it's supposed to be broken as all heck? Or did I hallucinate that?

The CSM book...is going to be good? You must have hallucinated that.

The csm book can be "Good" (read totally broken as gak trough all circles of slaaneshs pleasure palace) and still fail at representing what it is supposed to.

Sofar the rumours encourage to expect something in this way.

Not Online!!! wrote:
The csm book can be "Good" (read totally broken as gak trough all circles of slaaneshs pleasure palace) and still fail at representing what it is supposed to.

Sofar the rumours encourage to expect something in this way.

yeah, if all our datasheet have built-in VotLW + EC its gonna be good, but also really bad.

It's going to be Guard. At this rate, it's been over 5 years now.

I voted Guard, but I'm beggining to have doubts it will be the last V9 codex. We have been given two hints in the "rumour engine" that are almost unmistakenly Astra Militarum : a Kasrkin hand with an auspex, and a rough rider explosive spear. These concepts lead me to think the V9 Astra Militarum might be "only" 3-5 months ahead.

By the way, what is the average delay between a rumour engine hint and the item's release ?

 BlackoCatto wrote:
It's going to be Guard. At this rate, it's been over 5 years now.

The Astra Militarum V8 codex was released in october 2017, so that is 4 years 6 months currently.

I really hope Guard get to have some sort of fun, but they really don't have a foil to box set against. Chaos already have their box planned, against Aeldari(?) and Knights will obviously be stand alone, as a single knight is already over 100USD. That leaves Guard by themselves really, or am I forgetting someone? Guard as a stand alone release the way they did Sisters MIGHT be really good. Basically 1 faction gets to be the "bridge" and is de-facto the first codex out of the gate. So if that is the case, Guard will be good for about 1-3 months, before getting totally stomped by power creep Astartes.

Wait, I'm wrong, didn't GW mention they might be doing Traitor Guard? Could that be the box set? One giant box of Guard, and you have no idea who's traitor, but could double as both factions? That would be a fun way to start Chaos.

From the 2021 november leak about the roadmap, traitor guard was supposed to be part of heretic astartes (CSM codex). So I don't think traitor guard would be included as an antagonist to the new astra militarum. I see one other possibilty of a faction vs faction box, and that would be Daemons, vs Kasrkin (or Krieg).

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I've been thinking about AOS, and 40k. What if instead of making guard GUARD, they made the IG into more of like the Imperial Army faction in AOS, the one that's made up of all the different races?

Sometimes I think "GW is so bad at rules that you could probably get 5 random Dakkanites together to come up with a better ruleset", and then I read ideas like this... We had a system like this in 7th, literally everyone hated it. "Imperium soup with the loyal 32" is something I never want to see across from me on a table or read about in a batrep for the rest of my life. It was terrible for the game in every way imaginable.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I really hope Guard get to have some sort of fun, but they really don't have a foil to box set against. Chaos already have their box planned, against Aeldari(?) and Knights will obviously be stand alone, as a single knight is already over 100USD. That leaves Guard by themselves really, or am I forgetting someone? Guard as a stand alone release the way they did Sisters MIGHT be really good. Basically 1 faction gets to be the "bridge" and is de-facto the first codex out of the gate. So if that is the case, Guard will be good for about 1-3 months, before getting totally stomped by power creep Astartes.

Wait, I'm wrong, didn't GW mention they might be doing Traitor Guard? Could that be the box set? One giant box of Guard, and you have no idea who's traitor, but could double as both factions? That would be a fun way to start Chaos.

GW doesn't make statements like that.

Chaos vs Eldar already happened. Twice now, in fact, once for 40k and once for kill team
A boxed set isn't required, anyway, but they wouldn't 'double it up' with indistinguishable opposing factions. At least not without a lot of knifework and conversions, and the chaos rumors so far are tossing that principle out the window, if the exalted champion character is anything to go by.

 Ravajaxe wrote:
From the 2021 november leak about the roadmap, traitor guard was supposed to be part of heretic astartes (CSM codex).

It was from before November. That's part of what actually gave it credibility: the Black Templar and then Chalnath leaks were explicitly spelled out.

So I don't think traitor guard would be included as an antagonist to the new astra militarum. I see one other possibilty of a faction vs faction box, and that would be Daemons, vs Kasrkin (or Krieg).

Traitor Guard are entirely possible as a "vs" box, since the rumor is there will actually be a fully fleshed out new Regiment coming at some point for Guard.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Toofast wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I've been thinking about AOS, and 40k. What if instead of making guard GUARD, they made the IG into more of like the Imperial Army faction in AOS, the one that's made up of all the different races?

Sometimes I think "GW is so bad at rules that you could probably get 5 random Dakkanites together to come up with a better ruleset", and then I read ideas like this... We had a system like this in 7th, literally everyone hated it. "Imperium soup with the loyal 32" is something I never want to see across from me on a table or read about in a batrep for the rest of my life. It was terrible for the game in every way imaginable.

Cities of Sigmar weren't really initially a "soup" faction like they've become.

It's made up of a ton of smaller factions. That's part of what made it such a "bleh" book early on. Conceptually, it absolutely is a good model for how to set up Guard in 40k...it just was a bad model for how to set up the concept of the Cities of Sigmar as they were described.

You were supposed to have generals from the Cities of Sigmar that knew how to utilize the troops at their disposal. You were supposed to have retinues of heroes that all had a place in your battleplans. Certain races were supposed to be present in each city, etc etc...
And then GW shanked it. To use a Guard analogue, they basically created the doctrines system from the 3.5 Guard book without putting the restrictions in. And it went about as well as you can imagine.

Without radically altering the lore, how will they keep Creed in the codex? Will he get Legends treatment? I might see them doing a Guard vs. Necrons box set with the remains of Cadia getting together to "rescue" Creed from Solemance. That would be a fun battlezone book/lore direction? Two birds with one stone. Get back the supreme commander of the IG, make him a 9th level Warlord threat, and give him an adjusted statline, his dual Hotshot pistols could be S5/6 ap2 d3 12" Pistol 4. And give him something stupid like the ability to summon a command squad from off map.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Without radically altering the lore, how will they keep Creed in the codex? .

Give him a datasheet.
.
.
.
Yep. That's it. Dead (or whatever) special characters in a codex isn't weird or unusual.

Voss wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Without radically altering the lore, how will they keep Creed in the codex? .

Give him a datasheet.
.
.
.
Yep. That's it. Dead (or whatever) special characters in a codex isn't weird or unusual.

Such as several of the Space Marine characters. BA has a few.

Well, apparently Imperial Knights are shoulder-checking the chaos factions out of the way and taking the release slot after Tyranids.

'Summer of Chaos' anyone? Aside from Guard, its all that's left.

They could be doing a guard v Chaos book, but that is gonna be dumb. Here's 3 squads of IG troops, 1 HWT, a CC, and a Chimera. Here 3x squads of Havocs/Generic Chaos Marines, and some Daemon machine, likely a hell brute. That would suck big toasted toads.

I still don't get how GW can seriously balance IG with any actual real impact. They either break 9th, or completely re-design the guard. I don't see GW doing either. I've said before, and I think it's the easiest way, is to make the guard a "PDF" faction. You can attach them to any imperial or Chaos list, with no impact. They have no stand alone benefits, no purity buff, but they can be cheap meat for a heavy Blood Angels list. Or a heavy World Eaters list, as it were. Just call them Traitors, and bam.

Or, hear me out, they just release a normal bloody codex and don't worry about 'balancing out' any sort of box or book.

Even when they do versus boxes or starter boxes, they don't particularly worry about 'balancing' the box contents anyway, so I don't see why you're so obsessed with it.

Ok, but what even is a "NORMAL BLOODY CODEX" anymore? What was the last honestly normal codex? I'd say it was the Sisters of 8th. But then they got an instant update 4 months later.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Ok, but what even is a "NORMAL BLOODY CODEX" anymore?

This: https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/codex-aeldari-2022-eng

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I still don't get how GW can seriously balance IG with any actual real impact. They either break 9th, or completely re-design the guard. I don't see GW doing either. I've said before, and I think it's the easiest way, is to make the guard a "PDF" faction. You can attach them to any imperial or Chaos list, with no impact. They have no stand alone benefits, no purity buff, but they can be cheap meat for a heavy Blood Angels list. Or a heavy World Eaters list, as it were. Just call them Traitors, and bam.

1) GW already can't "seriously balance" any other force, so insisting that IG have to die for it is still pointless and vindictive.
2) That you, personally, can't see how to balance IG doesn't mean that there is no way to balance IG.
3) It would be even better to resign Space Marines to the add-on force and have IG be the main dex - after all, there's rarely more than a company of the Marines across warzones that encompass multiple army groups of IG, so saying that a representative slice of that should be SM with IG sprinkles is utter stupidity.
4) You still haven't answered what parts of the IG are going to make the cut in this prospective new 'dex and why.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Ok, but what even is a "NORMAL BLOODY CODEX" anymore? What was the last honestly normal codex? I'd say it was the Sisters of 8th. But then they got an instant update 4 months later.

It's pretty obvious that he meant "normal bloody codex" in the context of "Standalone codex for a faction"; ie, a regular IG 'dex for 9e same as we got for 8e and prior, not the weird addon 'dex you were suggesting.

Ok, well the options are it either does a. Nothing, and IG continues to suck. B. It is amazing and IG fly to the top of the Meta, or C. It comes out with a very few modest changes and makes no big splash either way. I would put forward then that C is the same as A in this instance.

And the idea that Aeldari are somehow not a broken codex is laughable. We just haven't seen them in the hands of uber-competitive grognards yet. Their new sniper can do silly amounts of damage for 100 points, and their weaver of fate auto 6's are ripe for the exploiting.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Ok, well the options are it either does a. Nothing, and IG continues to suck. B. It is amazing and IG fly to the top of the Meta, or C. It comes out with a very few modest changes and makes no big splash either way. I would put forward then that C is the same as A in this instance.

My goodness! You mean to say that a new 'dex might make us worse, better, or keep us the same? Sir, I shall need to see the fifth-dimensional calculus you've done to come to such an outlandish conclusion.

And the idea that Aeldari are somehow not a broken codex is laughable. We just haven't seen them in the hands of uber-competitive grognards yet. Their new sniper can do silly amounts of damage for 100 points, and their weaver of fate auto 6's are ripe for the exploiting.

I don't care. You're still not engaging with the point - that your suggestions aren't justified by the brokenness of other codices any more than they're justified by the fact that GW might have to *gasp* do work to make a balanced solo IG 'dex, and you're completely ignoring the fact that this new 'dex would have exactly the same problems (if not worse) as a solo IG 'dex (not to mention the obvious unfairness of expecting IG and IG alone to undergo this crap).

I'm not advocating anything. I am merely stating for the good of the faction, it's better that they be broken, than worthless. Equal and midling isn't fun for the most expensive faction in the game.

And your insistence of sticking your head in the sand and refusing to acknowledge that GW is going to do exactly what they've been doing for entire edition isn't my problem either. Go complain on Reddit about how GW doesn't work hard enough to make a balanced game. The game is inherently unbalanced. It always has been. Nothing in 40k is about skill. It's luck and who's got the biggest baddest toy soldier.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I'm not advocating anything.

You explicitly are. Or were all your other posts just figments of my imagination?

I am merely stating for the good of the faction, it's better that they be broken, than worthless.

Which is a false dichotomy, and also not something you've said in relation to your suggestion as far as I've seen.

Equal and midling isn't fun for the most expensive faction in the game.

So the game should be fun in proportion to how much money you've spent on it? What a wonderful outlook.

And your insistence of sticking your head in the sand and refusing to acknowledge that GW is going to do exactly what they've been doing for entire edition isn't my problem either.

That's weird, all these words in my mouth are directly contradicted by other posts I've made in this and other threads...

<literally 'gb2reddit'>

Do the kids still say "OK Boomer" these days?

The game is inherently unbalanced. It always has been. Nothing in 40k is about skill. It's luck and who's got the biggest baddest toy soldier.

Great. Yet again, that doesn't justify your suggestion, and yet again, you've spent an entire post ignoring criticisms. You're not obligated to defend your positions, of course, but running away every time you're challenged doesn't exactly instill confidence in your ideas.

When they do their internal testing of beta rules for a new codex, who do they test it against? Do they play against the entire line-up of factions, regardless of if they have a current book or not, or do they only test their books against factions that have had an update to the current set?

Guard. It's Guard. Knights codices are announced as next after nids, and Chaos is teased to be right after.

"To each of us falls a task, and all the Emperor requires of us Guardsmen is that we stand the line, and we die fighting. It is what we do best. We die standing."

Arcanis161 wrote:
Guard. It's Guard. Knights codices are announced as next after nids, and Chaos is teased to be right after.

"To each of us falls a task, and all the Emperor requires of us Guardsmen is that we stand the line, and we die fighting. It is what we do best. We die standing."

Could still be daemons. Probably will be daemons, so we have a break from all that chaos.
We've got multiple guard rumor engine pics now, and nothing for daemons (the wings are in the chaos marine teaser)