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 Wiz Warrior wrote:
And while they were a wargear equipment option, there was never any model citadel made that had a power-board, sadly. If you see one, its because it was scratch built. But then again, what wasnt back in 1988?

Yes they did, I have one. They just didn't make it for 40K.

And should the dwarves be Danish. I see a lot of crossovers between these new squats, Van Saar and Tau--and I see that as a good thing.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:

 Strg Alt wrote:

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:

 Dystartes wrote:

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
Feels like a missed opportunity to do something more interesting to me.

...such as?

Such as? is such a BS response. It’s like saying, off the top of your head, come up with something better than a team of professional designers, who probably spent months working on this.

All I know it, this looks to me like the laziest, most predictable and boring thing they could have done to reinvent squats. Uninspired sub-Tolkien stereotypes in space.

I hope to be proved wrong when we see the rest of the range, but there’s so many things I would have preferred to have seen instead of space dwarfs.

Indeed! Dwarfs...IN SPACE! So lame! What are they gonna do next? Orks, Elves and Demons too? What kind of tomfoolery this would be!

Orks happen to be my least favourite thing about 40K. Space Elves a close second. At least with Demons and Aeldari, they actually managed to do something interesting. It’s possible to like 40k without having to like everything about it.

Yeah I agree with that but I disagree with your notion that its lame, lazy or non interesting... Doesn't fit your aesthetic preferences which its fine but GW reinvented armour/ look to something new in 40k which in itself shows commitment to design and is an interesting new design direction.
They did the same in Necromunda Van saar which I find refreshing and they did it years ago with Tau... Keep it coming I would say.

They'd already updated their look with Grendleson, and he looked great - a modern take on their original design that still evoked that classic feel with the padded gambeson and small Dwarf-themed details. The new version looks like they took away those extra bits and the Dwarf-theming and replaced them with nothing, turning it into a more bland, quite generic sci-fi miniature. If they had kept the padded undersuit and had a few small embellishments then it would have felt less lacking with its theming.

Less is more, Grendleson looks like a silly Christmas tree. From a design perspective this is miles above and like the first primaris its an open canvas.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:


They'd already updated their look with Grendleson, and he looked great - a modern take on their original design that still evoked that classic feel with the padded gambeson and small Dwarf-themed details. The new version looks like they took away those extra bits and the Dwarf-theming and replaced them with nothing, turning it into a more bland, quite generic sci-fi miniature. If they had kept the padded undersuit and had a few small embellishments then it would have felt less lacking with its theming.

I'd really like to see the Grendleson look released as a Squat abhumans unit for the Astra Militarum, showing how the Imperium treats it's kin differently to the Leagues. That way we can get both styles in a way that enhances the lore.

While they are at it, some Beastmen abhumans and new plastic Ratlings would be great. The Beastmen could have explosive collars to really fit with the way they are oppressed in Imperial society.

 NAVARRO wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:

 Strg Alt wrote:

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:

 Dystartes wrote:

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
Feels like a missed opportunity to do something more interesting to me.

...such as?

Such as? is such a BS response. It’s like saying, off the top of your head, come up with something better than a team of professional designers, who probably spent months working on this.

All I know it, this looks to me like the laziest, most predictable and boring thing they could have done to reinvent squats. Uninspired sub-Tolkien stereotypes in space.

I hope to be proved wrong when we see the rest of the range, but there’s so many things I would have preferred to have seen instead of space dwarfs.

Indeed! Dwarfs...IN SPACE! So lame! What are they gonna do next? Orks, Elves and Demons too? What kind of tomfoolery this would be!

Orks happen to be my least favourite thing about 40K. Space Elves a close second. At least with Demons and Aeldari, they actually managed to do something interesting. It’s possible to like 40k without having to like everything about it.

Yeah I agree with that but I disagree with your notion that its lame, lazy or non interesting... Doesn't fit your aesthetic preferences which its fine but GW reinvented armour/ look to something new in 40k which in itself shows commitment to design and is an interesting new design direction.
They did the same in Necromunda Van saar which I find refreshing and they did it years ago with Tau... Keep it coming I would say.

They'd already updated their look with Grendleson, and he looked great - a modern take on their original design that still evoked that classic feel with the padded gambeson and small Dwarf-themed details. The new version looks like they took away those extra bits and the Dwarf-theming and replaced them with nothing, turning it into a more bland, quite generic sci-fi miniature. If they had kept the padded undersuit and had a few small embellishments then it would have felt less lacking with its theming.

Less is more, Grendleson looks like a silly Christmas tree. From a design perspective this is miles above and like the first primaris its an open canvas.

Swapping the undersuit for a padded version and adding a couple of small Dwarf-like icons on his backpack and beltbuckle wouldn't have made him "look like a silly Christmas tree". At the moment their theming appears to just be "sci-fi".

The Mantic Forge Fathers already did the 'Dwarves in space' concept better than GW ever could. This new model is bland, generic sci-fi and a transparent cash-in on the nostalgia value of Squats.
So it'll sell an absolute ton and get people to gloss over glaring problems with 40k. In other words, it'll be a complete success.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Dude is just really wide and hunchbacked. Like, he looks like a terminator with shorter legs. And 40k didn't need terminators with even worse proportions.

"terminator with shorter legs" Dude, they are just going back to RT ideas.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

They'd already updated their look with Grendleson, and he looked great

No he didn't. He has the embarrassing and uninspired look of mixing IG with fantasy dwarves that got the squats squatted in the first place. I'm really glad that they're bravely reimagining them and giving them a fresh visual identity.

 Crimson wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

They'd already updated their look with Grendleson, and he looked great

No he didn't. He has the embarrassing and uninspired look of mixing IG with fantasy dwarves that got the squats squatted in the first place. I'm really glad that they're bravely reimagining them and giving them a fresh visual identity.

The fantasy theming wasn't why they got removed in the first place, they got removed because they hadn't done the Dwarf archetype properly and had instead made them too silly with the whole biker theming and such. They weren't sure what to do with them to fix the issue - what they were doing with Epic was said to be more in line with how they should have been.

From Jervis Johnson:

No, the reason that the Squats were dropped was because the creatives in the Studio (people like me, Rick, Andy C, Gav etc) felt that we had failed to do the Dwarf 'archetype' justice in its 40K incarnation. From the name of the race (Squats - what were we thinking?!?!) through to the short bikers motif, we had managed to turn what was a proud and noble race in Warhammer and the other literary forms where the archetype exists, into a joke race in 40K. We only fully realized what we had done when we were working on the 2nd edition of 40K. Try as we might, we just couldn't work up much enthusiasm for the Squats. The mistake we made then (deeply regretted since) was to leave them in the background and the 'get you by' army list book that appeared. With hindsight, we should have dropped the Squats back then, and saved ourselves a lot of grief later on.

.....

Now, while this was all going on for 40K, we were actually doing some rather good stuff for the Squats in Epic. On this scale there was a natural tendency to focus on the big 'hand-made' war machines the Squat artisans produced, and this created an army with a feel that was very different to the biker hordes in 40K. However, this tended to reinforce the problems we saw in the Squat background rather than alleviate them, underlining what we should have done with the Squats in 40K.

Their "fresh visual identity" appears to be generic sci-fi without anything to make up for taking away that theming they had.

We are making a lot of assumptions about the visual identity of one model who is like a bog standard troop model and as such will have less bling on his kit as well.

Grendleson is a Squat living in Imperial society. He probably should look different.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
We are making a lot of assumptions about the visual identity of one model who is like a bog standard troop model and as such will have less bling on his kit as well.

As is our right as people who comment on forums about little plastic people.

BTW, if people want more ornate and fantasy dwarfy look, I bet kitbashing these with Kharadron will produce just that super easily.

 ImAGeek wrote:
Grendleson is a Squat living in Imperial society. He probably should look different.

Exactly, Is ike saying the Hive scum should be just like cadians or Goliaths like space marines.
They should look quite different and I rather back new paths into 40k look than rehashing same things over and over again.

The way I see it Kin now is like a parallel technological evolution and not just a imperial variation...

Ornaments like runes, purity seals etc should be in the realms of optional bits not embedded on 28mm minis. Its just an healthier way to promote different looks on the same models. Like I said I welcome open canvas.

Its never good with your guys and damsels, Do they make models with lots of stuff on it, they are called crismast trees. If they dont put a lot of stuff on the model its to bland. I like the look of the armour and the gun, the beard doesnt belong on top of the armour but beneath the armour its to pressios to get burned or ripped of by an ennemy

 skeleton wrote:
Its never good with your guys and damsels, Do they make models with lots of stuff on it, they are called crismast trees. If they dont put a lot of stuff on the model its to bland.

I presume that's different people having different opinions, so pretty normal for any place or group.

For squats, I definitely prefer no-nonsense and practical over lots of bling and doo-dads. That's great for a religious fanatics like Sisters, less so here. 40k has a lot of factions that are over the top in their manias and grand proclamations to their causes. No nonsense, down to earth technologists is an enjoyable contrast.

 skeleton wrote:
Its never good with your guys and damsels, Do they make models with lots of stuff on it, they are called crismast trees. If they dont put a lot of stuff on the model its to bland. I like the look of the armour and the gun, the beard doesnt belong on top of the armour but beneath the armour its to pressios to get burned or ripped of by an ennemy

The options aren't "everything" or "nothing". It isn't about ""Why aren't there Runes, long braided beards, Dwarf icons, engravings and lots of ornate decoration all over?", it's that it doesn't have any themed embellishments or details, not even just a small icon engraving on the backpack or belt buckle. Even for a basic troop I'd expect something.

Voss wrote:

 skeleton wrote:
Its never good with your guys and damsels, Do they make models with lots of stuff on it, they are called crismast trees. If they dont put a lot of stuff on the model its to bland.

I presume that's different people having different opinions, so pretty normal for any place or group.

For squats, I definitely prefer no-nonsense and practical over lots of bling and doo-dads. That's great for a religious fanatics like Sisters, less so here. 40k has a lot of factions that are over the top in their manias and grand proclamations to their causes. No nonsense, down to earth technologists is an enjoyable contrast.

I agree. I'm working on BTs now and it will be nice to have an army that doesn't have tons of little bits to paint. These guys will look good with a clean paint job and a couple transfers.

First primaris release was pretty unornamented



But it didn’t take that long for these guys to rock up.



The sky doesn’t need to fall in quite yet, and there will be room for a range of preferences I’m sure.

 Flinty wrote:
First primaris release was pretty unornamented

They weren't completely lacking in ornamentation like the Squat appears to be, however. They still had the embellishments on the bolter and chest armour. Besides, it's not about them not being decorated to the same level you'd expect of Veteran/Elite troops.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

 Flinty wrote:
First primaris release was pretty unornamented

Spoiler:

They weren't completely lacking in ornamentation like the Squat appears to be, however. They still had the embellishments on the bolter and chest armour.

They're different than the Imperium proper though and may not value massive amounts of ornamentation.

That said, it's one model and he may the most basic of the entire faction.

There are 4 decently sized locations for votann specific transfers to go to add ornamentation. Allows for more flexibility than cast in details as well.

I personally prefer the sleeker look that this model embodies, and I’m sure that those who prefer more gubbins will also be catered for.

Aesthetically, I’m happy with it.

I do see similarities with GSC equipment. Both are likely (we don’t know Votann background yet) derived from Mining Equipment.

But, GSC kit is directly adapted from Mining Equipment. Votann stuff looks to have been developed from the same.

Really looking forward to seeing more of these little dudes.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

 Flinty wrote:
First primaris release was pretty unornamented

Spoiler:

They weren't completely lacking in ornamentation like the Squat appears to be, however. They still had the embellishments on the bolter and chest armour.

They're different than the Imperium proper though and may not value massive amounts of ornamentation.

That said, it's one model and he may the most basic of the entire faction.

Jes Goodwin always states that when they start designing a new range the basic core troops start relatively plain so they can add more details to sergeants, elites and officers so thats probably why this guy is relatively plain. We haven't seen the helmets yet [which are the main thing that give the Kharadrons their unique look, plus there is lots more to come. I would have liked an ancestor rune rune somewhere om a backpack or gun perhaps but that detail might come elsewhere and can be painted on/applied with transfers.
Really looking forward to reading about the design process with them in the future, its a shame Voxcast isn't a thing now, the community articles don't always give the depth I'd like.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

 Flinty wrote:
First primaris release was pretty unornamented

Spoiler:

They weren't completely lacking in ornamentation like the Squat appears to be, however. They still had the embellishments on the bolter and chest armour.

They're different than the Imperium proper though and may not value massive amounts of ornamentation.

That said, it's one model and he may the most basic of the entire faction.

Close to the level of ornamentation Grendlesen has (minus the Purity Seals and Imperial aspects) would have been enough; their logo cast onto the backpack and belt buckle.

 Flinty wrote:
There are 4 decently sized locations for votann specific transfers to go to add ornamentation. Allows for more flexibility than cast in details as well.

I personally prefer the sleeker look that this model embodies, and I’m sure that those who prefer more gubbins will also be catered for.

Indeed... You can easily add ornaments on that primaris but you can't take them off from those Primaris vets.

A "clean" armour will be good for most fans and not just for some.

 NAVARRO wrote:

 Flinty wrote:
There are 4 decently sized locations for votann specific transfers to go to add ornamentation. Allows for more flexibility than cast in details as well.

I personally prefer the sleeker look that this model embodies, and I’m sure that those who prefer more gubbins will also be catered for.

Indeed... You can easily add ornaments on that primaris but you can't take them off from those Primaris vets.

A "clean" armour will be good for most fans and not just for some.

I have a file.
Not you, GW, or the full might of the United States government can stop me if I want to remove the Imperialis or any other decoration from my Bladeguard.

I want to see the helmets. For me a faction more iconic part is always the helmet.

Tau, Marines, Eldar, etc... it is what it makes or breaks the faction for me.

Looking forward to seeing a lot more of these new Squa... er, Leagues of Votann and hopefully some fun kitbashing opportunities to be had with Arkanauts. (Fingers and toes crossed that they have bubble helmets!)

All that said, given that we've now seen Genestealer Cults, Sisters of Battle and now Squats in plastic (honourable mentions to Corsairs, Kriegers and some of the more exotic Black Fortress models) where do we go from here? Given AoS fun and interesting model and army themes over the past few years and Necromunda's exploration of the Ash Wastes I really see GW as having turned a corner from a creative standpoint, either putting their own twist on well established tropes or branching out with new and interesting characters and monsters that would have been seen as the stuff of myth, legend and derranged ramblings some 15 years ago and this is obviously bleeding over into the more conservative space of WH40K... so much so I'm really starting to think that Kroot and Catachans are inevitable at this point.

I'd love to see Skaven in spaaaace as well, in terms of wishlisting a transition of a fantasy army into 40K... I got into the whole Warhammer thingy around the year 2000 therefore i'm not up to speed with what came about in the decades before, are there any real big thematic races or armies to bring back in a big way left to explore? To the casual observer it looks as though a lot of the fanservice has been realised now?

Even the fabled Beakie Marine is about to get it's moment in the spotlight once more. Fun times for all involved. (Glossing over GW's other well established shithousery ofc)

I suppose how excited you are by the return of squats, depends on what you thought of squats the first time round.

Personally I always hated them and haven’t seen anything to change my mind. I fully appreciate that they have their fans though.

I’m happy for the fans and equally happy to ignore factions I don’t like.

S’all good.

Well, Hurd remain an option. If my background knowledge isn’t wonky, they are described as infestations. Potentially, making them more widespread is only one Warp Shenanigan away?

I wouldn’t say no to more Xenos species.