Switch Theme:

Squats return! - Page 11  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Poll
Is this an April Fools?
Yes. It is an April Fools
No. It is not an April Fools

View results
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

Or maybe they find a way of reconciling the Demiurg fluff with the new Squat fluff.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in gb
Ancient Space Wolves Venerable Dreadnought





 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Or maybe they find a way of reconciling the Demiurg fluff with the new Squat fluff.

Nah, keep them as scaly space Wolverines. No real reason there can’t be two short but bulky species.

"Three months? I'm going to go crazy …and I'm taking you with me!"
— Vala Mal Doran
 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba




The Great State of New Jersey

Leagues of Votan are independent/Imperium aligned squats, Leagues of Demiurg are Tau aligned. Fluff reconciled.

CoALabaer wrote:
Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
 
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






 Mr_Rose wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Or maybe they find a way of reconciling the Demiurg fluff with the new Squat fluff.

Nah, keep them as scaly space Wolverines. No real reason there can’t be two short but bulky species.


This.

   
Made in fi
Courageous Space Marine Captain






chaos0xomega wrote:
Leagues of Votan are independent/Imperium aligned squats, Leagues of Demiurg are Tau aligned. Fluff reconciled.

That would work.

   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





I don't see how the Demiurg could be made into the Squats, haven't there been Imperial encounters with them where they outright said they were Aliens? Or perhaps they were only told they were aliens to disguise themselves? I expect they'll just ignore the similarities, though.

   
Made in gb
Infiltrating Broodlord





London

 Mr_Rose wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Or maybe they find a way of reconciling the Demiurg fluff with the new Squat fluff.

Nah, keep them as scaly space Wolverines. No real reason there can’t be two short but bulky species.


Yeah, they'll probably never do anything with the Demiurg but there's no reason to torturously try and suggest they and the Squats are the same race, any more than there's a need to suggest humans and Eldar are the same because they're similar heights. Maybe they'll drop a line somewhere that Demiurg almost never make planetfall and hence don't make sense in 40k proper.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/04/05 13:50:15


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Demiurg probably aren't going anywhere. We had them in BFG3. They even talk, I think. It's not like they're just going to be swept under a rug, they're just going to remain a race that pops up occasionally in tau stories
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

Demiurg were going to be the new Squats for some time. Not in lore but in theme - dwarves in space.
However I think they, along with Kroot and a lot of other potential Xenos got side tracked when the core Tau design of mecha took off in such a big way.

They could still be developed, but I think right now Tau would do with splitting into two armies to achieve that kind of approach. Much like how splitting Genestealer Cults out of Tyranids allowed the Cult to have its own diverse model line; splitting Kroot and Xenos out of Tau would do likewise. Giving them room to grow their own army and design without the two halves swamping each other.

A Blog in Miniature

3D Printing, hobbying and model fun! 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba




The Great State of New Jersey

 Mentlegen324 wrote:
I don't see how the Demiurg could be made into the Squats, haven't there been Imperial encounters with them where they outright said they were Aliens? Or perhaps they were only told they were aliens to disguise themselves? I expect they'll just ignore the similarities, though.



Theres fluff that says the Squats were all eaten by Tyranids, yet here we are. Retcons happen, the fluff serves the purposes desired by the designers and not the other way around. The changes needed to make this work is relatively minor. Just because they have a few lines of dialogue in a game published by a licensee doesn't really change anything.

CoALabaer wrote:
Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
 
   
Made in gb
Moustache-twirling Princeps




United Kingdom

The Saga of the Squats – From Space Dwarfs to the Leagues of Votann - WarCom
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




They could do whatever they want, sure.

I would imagine there's a snowballs chance in hell of them diluting their new LoV army by creating them with a Tau aligned break off.

Demiurg could generously be called a footnote in the 40k universe, they will just continue to not be addressed outside of maybe a line of flavour somewhere.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/04/05 15:11:39


 
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






Interesting they acknowledge Jervis mentioning in passing “Nids Ate Them”, rather querying that it’s ever been official background.

   
Made in gb
Moustache-twirling Princeps




United Kingdom

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Interesting they acknowledge Jervis mentioning in passing “Nids Ate Them”, rather querying that it’s ever been official background.


And, for the record: Jervis Johnson talking about the Squats -

Spoiler:
"I know I shouldn't get drawn on this... but... can't... resist

Seriously, a couple of points just so you can have an informed debate based on the real reasons that Squats are no longer available. Be warned, it is going to be hard reading for people that like the Squat background.

First of all, Squats were *not* dropped because they were not selling well. There were then, and are now, plenty of other figure ranges that sell in the sort of % quantaties that the Squats pulled down, especially when you look across all of the ranges produced by GW rather than just those for 40K.

No, the reason that the Squats were dropped was because the creatives in the Studio (people like me, Rick, Andy C, Gav etc) felt that we had failed to do the Dwarf 'archetype' justice in its 40K incarnation. From the name of the race (Squats - what *were* we thinking?!?!) through to the short bikers motif, we had managed to turn what was a proud and noble race in Warhammer and the other literary forms where the archetype exists, into a joke race in 40K. We only fully realised what we had done when we were working on the 2nd edition of 40K. Try as we might, we just couldn't work up much enthusiasm for the Squats. The mistake we made then (deeply regreted since) was to leave them in the background and the 'get you by' army list book that appeared. With hindsight, we should have dropped the Squats back then, and saved ourselves a lot of grief later on.

Anyway, the Squats made it into 2nd edition, and since we were doing army books for each of the races, we started to try and figure out what to do with them. Unfortunately we just couldn't figure out a way to update them and get them to work that we felt was good enough. The 'art' of working on an army as a designer is to find the thing that you think is cool and exciting about an army, and work it up into a strong theme. This 'muse' didn't strike any of us, and so, rather than bring out a second-rate product simply re-hashing the old background, we kept doing other army books instead, with stuff we did feel inspired by.

Now, while this was all going on for 40K, we were actually doing some rather good stuff for the Squats in Epic. On this scale there was a natural tendancy to focus on the big 'hand-made' war machines the Squat artisans produced, and this created an army with a feel that was very different to the biker hordes in 40K. However, this tended to reinforce the problems we saw in the Squat background rather than alleviate them, underlining what we *should* have done with the Squats in 40K.

In the end (and it took years to really get to the roots of the problem) this led to a realisation that we were going to have to drop the Squats in their 'Squat' form from the 40K background. There was little point having a major race that we weren't willing to make an army book for, and their inclusion in the background meant that people kept asking us when we'd do a Squat Codex. Instead we decided that we'd write the Squats out of the background by saying that their Homworlds had been devoured by a Tyranid Hivefleet. This would give us the option in the future to return to making a race based ont he Squat archetype for 40K. This race was given the name of Demiurg, and a certain amount of preliminary work was done to get a 'feel' for what the race would be like. At present the only hint of the Demiurg in 40K is the Demiurg spaceship for BFG. However, we do have this race 'in our back pocket' as a possible new race for 40K, or an interesting character model in Inquisitor, or whatever. So far the Demiurg have lost out to other projects, and it may be that their time never actually comes, as they will have to win through on their merits, not simply because we once made some Squat models in the past. At present, I have to say that it is more lilely that they *don't* make the cut than do, as there is a certain predudice these days to simply taking races from Warhammer and cross them over to 40K like we did in the early days, so it may be that the Squats/Demiurg end up remaining a footnote in the history of the 40K galaxy. Only time will tell...

The second point I'd like to make is about 'old moulds'. In the past, Mail Order in the UK and US used to be the place that we kept all of the retired moulds for Citadel Miniatures, and we used to offer a service where you could order any Citadel Mniature ever made from MO. However, there are now so many of these 'back catalogue' miniatures that it is simply impossible to keep all of the old moulds in Mail Order and offer this service. Instead, we pick and choose which back catalogue miniatures are kept available. At present we're still struggling to produce special catalogues for these ranges (in the US there is the 'Phone Book' catalogue with everything in it, while the UK has special 'collectors guides' that are themed round a race). Once we've ironed out the kinks in the way we deal with the range of collectors models we want to keep permenantly available, the plan is to offer up other parts of the back catalogue for limited periods of time. In effect this will divide the back catalogue into three parts: a range of classic models that are permenantly available, a range of classic models we dip into and bring out for a limited release, and a range of retired models that will no longer be sold either because we've decided that they are embarrassingly bad, or because we are no longer allowed to sell them due to licencing agreement changes. So far we're still slowly working on deciding which classic models we want to keep permenantly available, and its going to take several years to work through just those. The old Squat range is most likely to end up as retired models, I have to say, though there is a good chance that the Squat war engines they could simply into the limited release classic range. Once again, only time will tell...

I'll finish off by saying that whatever we decide to do 'officially', there is nothing stopping players with Squat armies from using them, either in Epic or 40k for that matter. There is no GW 'rule' against using old Citadel Miniatures, as long as you use them with exisiting army lists and in a way that won't cause confusion for other players. I recommend taking a positive stand by saying "Have you seen these cool old models? They're called the Squats and GW used to make them back in the late eighties/early nineties. I love 'em, so I count them as Imperial Guard and use them with the current rules..." Put like this I can't imagine that anyone would stop you from using your army.

Best regards,

Jervis Johnson
Head Fanatic"
   
Made in us
Is 'Eavy Metal Calling?





Affton, MO. USA

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Interesting they acknowledge Jervis mentioning in passing “Nids Ate Them”, rather querying that it’s ever been official background.


It's just one of those rumors that was taken as truth over the years. They had to address it as he was one of the main people in GW when he said it, so it held weight no matter if it got an official stamp of approval or not.

LOL, Theo your mind is an amazing place, never change.-camkierhi 9/19/13
I cant believe theo is right.. damn. -comradepanda 9/26/13
None of the strange ideas we had about you involved your sexual orientation..........-Monkeytroll 12/10/13

I'd put you on ignore for that comment, if I could...Alpharius 2/11/14 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba




The Great State of New Jersey

As if right on cure:

A decade after Warhammer 40,000’s second edition, Battlefleet Gothic – a naval game of spacebound fleets – introduced the Demiurg, a mysterious group of void-faring miners and traders. Technologically-advanced industrialists with a grudge against Orks, a number of Demiurg brotherhoods aligned themselves with the T’au Empire, lending their powerful ships to the Air Caste fleets.

Were these the Leagues sneaking back into the setting, or a new alien species filling a similar role? We’re still not sure, but the modern edition of Necromunda brought fresh hope for fans of futuristic facial hair. At the end of the ‘10s, the underhive skirmish game introduced two new characters you could add to your gang – and though their design had once again evolved, everyone knew what we were looking at.


and interesting factoid at the bottom:

**** The Book of Judgement confirmed that Squat prospectors are still around, and buying energy drills from Demiurg.


So clearly some relationship between them there, though there is also clearly some distinction between them as well.

I would invading there's a snowballs chance in hell of them diluting their new LoV army by creating them with a Tau aligned break off.


lol, "diluting"? 80% of the factions in the game are a spinoff of another faction. Chaos anything is a spinoff of an Imperial faction (it didn't take very long for them to introduce Chaos Knights right on the heels of Imperial Knights, so much for that), all the Imperial factions are a spinoff from another Imperial faction basically, then theres Drukhari and Harlequins from Aeldari, Genestealer Cults from Tyranids, etc.

CoALabaer wrote:
Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





They AREN’T say that Squats AREN’T Demiurg.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/04/05 15:36:05


 
   
Made in gb
Moustache-twirling Princeps




United Kingdom

chaos0xomega wrote:
**** The Book of Judgement confirmed that Squat prospectors are still around, and buying energy drills from Demiurg.


So clearly some relationship between them there, though there is also clearly some distinction between them as well.



Cataphract wrote:
They AREN’T say that Squats AREN’T Demiurg.



Yeah - I wonder if they'll do something similar to Fyreslayers & Kharadron Overlords in AoS...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/04/05 15:59:13


 
   
Made in gb
Thermo-Optical Hac Tao





Gosport, UK

I like how people have still been voting in the poll now we know the answer for sure haha. The ‘no’ percentage has been creeping up.
   
Made in us
Terrifying Doombull




I'm more amused by the 'slightly different scale' for modern AT and AI.

The first major evolutionary step came in Titan Legions, a game of massive battles using tiny models at the Epic scale – just 6mm! Many of the larger units for the modern game of Warhammer 40,000 have their origins here, including all those lovely Titans and Knights. It also went on to inspire modern games like Adeptus Titanicus and Aeronautica Imperialis, though these are at a slightly different scale.


Slightly disappointed at the lack of more teaser art/model glimpses. But pleased with the self-awareness here, and the idea of expanding the game/setting rather than just doing the same set of books over (or PA again)

Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba




The Great State of New Jersey

Yeah, that raised an eyebrow but I chose not to bring it up as I get no enjoyment out of those scale debates.

CoALabaer wrote:
Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
 
   
Made in us
Terrifying Doombull




 ImAGeek wrote:
I like how people have still been voting in the poll now we know the answer for sure haha. The ‘no’ percentage has been creeping up.

There's been a couple posts to the effect of 'I still don't believe it' dotted around the various threads. Which would be real commitment to a bit at this point.

Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in us
The Marine Standing Behind Marneus Calgar





Upstate, New York

Voss wrote:
 ImAGeek wrote:
I like how people have still been voting in the poll now we know the answer for sure haha. The ‘no’ percentage has been creeping up.

There's been a couple posts to the effect of 'I still don't believe it' dotted around the various threads. Which would be real commitment to a bit at this point.


There were similar thoughts when plastic SoB were coming out. After so long waiting, there was a sizable minority who were going to deny until they had product in hand.

Understandable, if a little extreme.

   
Made in gb
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps





What remains on the old "Never gonna get it list but now it's here"? We have squats, plastic (mini) Thunderhawk, Zoat, plastic deffkoptas, Eldar Corsairs, a couple of others I'm sure I'm forgetting. Wheat else could be coming? Exodites? Chaos militia? (seems I remember something credible on the recent legit rumour list). Korks??? Gotta be more that people have been wishlisting since forever.

/Edit - Dark Future perchance? (kinda maybe with the new Necro box).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/04/05 17:37:55


 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba




The Great State of New Jersey

Saharduin/Pisceans and Hrud?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/04/05 17:40:59


CoALabaer wrote:
Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
 
   
Made in fi
Calculating Commissar







I'm intrigued what this could mean:

The new background for the Leagues of Votann builds off the old lore in interesting ways – including how they interact with their ancestors.

Perhaps their "ancestors" are more literal this time around, as actual ghosts on the battlefield? We've seen advanced civilizations weaponize the dead before, with the Eldars' infinity circuits.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/04/05 17:41:54


The supply does not get to make the demands. 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





The Emperor for HH?

Exodites are pretty much the last thing on the list now far as faction go. Depends if necro enforcers count as Arbites.

Hmm, perhaps Enslavers too.

As for the Leagues and the Great Crusade, they a stable enough offshoot from baseline human for the Imperium. No reason they weren't included, but left when things started getting weird with the rise of the Imperial Cult.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/04/05 17:43:54


 
   
Made in at
Second Story Man





Austria

Hrud, as mentioned in the White Dwarf were Tau came out as one of the maybe future races that are there

and it is the only thing left that is exclusive to Mantic

Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise 
   
Made in mx
Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan




Mexico

 ImAGeek wrote:
I like how people have still been voting in the poll now we know the answer for sure haha. The ‘no’ percentage has been creeping up.
The correct answer is 'yes', because it was a double meta April Fool's joke that made fun of the disbelief of the audience.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/04/05 17:58:59


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Biloxi, MS USA

Mantic haven't done Hrud. Hrud are NOT space skaven,

You know you're really doing something when you can make strangers hate you over the Internet. - Mauleed
Just remember folks. Panic. Panic all the time. It's the only way to survive, other than just being mindful, of course-but geez, that's so friggin' boring. - Aegis Grimm
Hallowed is the All Pie
The Before Times: A Place That Celebrates The World That Was 
   
 
Forum Index » News & Rumors
Go to: