Squats return! - Page 11

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**CthuluIsSpy**

Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
MonkeyBallistic wrote:
... they’re now announcing a new faction almost guaranteed to appeal to those people.
Short sci-fi Space Dwarfs appeal to Neo-Nazis?

Well that's a new one...

No One Important wrote:
Just a thought that occurred to me between nightmares but if Nordic imagery and problematic haircuts make things nazis, doesn't that mean the vast majority of female stormcast are nazis? I mean, they've got the undercuts, lightning bolts, take orders from a guy who loves hammers, etc. Strangely the male stormcast seem to have different ideological views as they have different haircuts.
See, I know you're kidding. But there are people who would look at your post and go "By Jove he's right!" and be deadly serious about it.

I mean, on the other hand, GW's scale sprint made it so the Squats are as tall as Cadians, just a lot more wide and buff, so they're not exactly manlets.

Is that even official? I didn't see that on the community website.
That doesn't even make any sense fluff wise; if they are the same height as humans, then why is Squat a derogatory word, and how come in the trailer there was that bit with the camera looking down?

'Tis a fanmade scale comprasion, based on the fact they're most likely gonna be on 28.5mm bases.

So not official, and going off an assumption that has no true basis.
Think about it logically, if they are as tall as Cadians, then they aren't really "squat", now are they?
If anything they would be called "widers" instead of "squats" if that were the case.

**Argive**

But why engage with these clearly insane arguments though...

Back on topic

What stats do people expect ?

I recon T4 4+ S4 1W.

In essence mini marines of pre update. (no pun intended)

are there currently any faction that has this basic stat line since marines have been upgraded?

**Wha-Mu-077**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
MonkeyBallistic wrote:
... they’re now announcing a new faction almost guaranteed to appeal to those people.
Short sci-fi Space Dwarfs appeal to Neo-Nazis?

Well that's a new one...

No One Important wrote:
Just a thought that occurred to me between nightmares but if Nordic imagery and problematic haircuts make things nazis, doesn't that mean the vast majority of female stormcast are nazis? I mean, they've got the undercuts, lightning bolts, take orders from a guy who loves hammers, etc. Strangely the male stormcast seem to have different ideological views as they have different haircuts.
See, I know you're kidding. But there are people who would look at your post and go "By Jove he's right!" and be deadly serious about it.

I mean, on the other hand, GW's scale sprint made it so the Squats are as tall as Cadians, just a lot more wide and buff, so they're not exactly manlets.

Is that even official? I didn't see that on the community website.
That doesn't even make any sense fluff wise; if they are the same height as humans, then why is Squat a derogatory word, and how come in the trailer there was that bit with the camera looking down?

'Tis a fanmade scale comprasion, based on the fact they're most likely gonna be on 28.5mm bases.

So not official, and going off an assumption that has no true basis.

...the basis is they're visibly on 28.5mm bases?

**Argive**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
MonkeyBallistic wrote:
... they’re now announcing a new faction almost guaranteed to appeal to those people.
Short sci-fi Space Dwarfs appeal to Neo-Nazis?

Well that's a new one...

No One Important wrote:
Just a thought that occurred to me between nightmares but if Nordic imagery and problematic haircuts make things nazis, doesn't that mean the vast majority of female stormcast are nazis? I mean, they've got the undercuts, lightning bolts, take orders from a guy who loves hammers, etc. Strangely the male stormcast seem to have different ideological views as they have different haircuts.
See, I know you're kidding. But there are people who would look at your post and go "By Jove he's right!" and be deadly serious about it.

I mean, on the other hand, GW's scale sprint made it so the Squats are as tall as Cadians, just a lot more wide and buff, so they're not exactly manlets.

Is that even official? I didn't see that on the community website.
That doesn't even make any sense fluff wise; if they are the same height as humans, then why is Squat a derogatory word, and how come in the trailer there was that bit with the camera looking down?

'Tis a fanmade scale comprasion, based on the fact they're most likely gonna be on 28.5mm bases.

So not official, and going off an assumption that has no true basis.
Think about it logically, if they are as tall as Cadians, then they aren't really "squat", now are they?
If anything they would be called "widers" instead of "squats" if that were the case.

They are not called squats though are they... They are called something something votan

**Flinty**

[never mind]

**CthuluIsSpy**

Argive wrote:

They are not called squats though are they... They are called something something votan

They are, actually. Squats is a derogatory term.

From the community website :

And while those nasty Necromundans still call them Squats, that’s not at all how they refer to themselves. These warriors have a long and proud martial history, and to those who aren’t on their bad side, they’re known as the Leagues of Votann – though they refer to themselves as Kin.

Of course they're not going to officially refer to themselves with a slur.

Also, watch the trailer again. There was a big deal about the camera pointing down and the kin was clearly short. Just look at the surrounding environment. They're still short, regardless of fan scale mock ups.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

...the basis is they're visibly on 28.5mm bases?

What do you mean "visibly"? Isn't magnification a thing?

**Crimson**

The proportions of the base imply that it probably is not a 25mm base.

**CthuluIsSpy**

Crimson wrote:
The proportions of the base imply that it probably is not a 25mm base.

Maybe, but it could be smaller than 28.5 too.
Without a proper frame of reference it's hard to tell.

Aren't Cadians an old sculpt too? Isn't scale creep a thing?
Maybe we'll get taller guardsmen when they redo infantry.

**Andykp**

Height of the rim setting the width to most likely 28.5mm.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
League of votan= squats.

Astra militarum = imperial guard

Aeldari = eldar.

**Pacific**

Fair play to whoever managed to derail the thread with the Nazi comment, but I'm not sure that nonsense has any place here? Sure there are plenty of spots on Reddit if anyone wants to discuss that stuff.

Platuan4th wrote:
Pacific wrote:
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Mind your assumptions, Grasshopper.
“Nids Ate Them” is not, and has never been, canon.

I am pretty sure there was some kind of mention, in either one of the 'Nid Codexes, or even the main rulebook itself - this might be going back 3-4 editions. I don't think it referred to the word 'Squat' specifically, but there was some sort of inference - perhaps someone with a better memory than I can fill in the blanks?

It was in the foreword to a re-release of Ian Watson's Inquisitor Trilogy which in and of itself is questionably canon, especially after his works got re-released again with the Black Library equivalent of Elseworlds.

OK thanks - I wonder if that was where I read it then. Although I think questioning the content of the book (which is very much not canon in many respects) is not the same as questioning the foreword of the book itself, which presumably was written by someone in a position to comment on 40k lore.

Have had a bit of a search. Lexicanum only references the foreword from Inquisitor War.

There was this comment from the famous Jervis Johnson message, written in 2004

Instead we decided that we'd write the Squats out of the background by saying that their Homworlds had been devoured by a Tyranid Hivefleet.

Which definitely implies it has been stated somewhere in official lore.

This is then taken from Lexicanum on the topic

The period from the Third Edition to the Fifth Edition was marked by a disappearance of Squats, and the planned development of Demiurg in their place. At first the disappearance of the Squat army from the game rules seems not to have been explained at all. They were seemingly just gone and Games Workshop did not mention them or what happened to them (as far as we currently know) for a very long time. Nevertheless many players and readers believe that Games Workshop sometime in the early second edition of Warhammer 40,000 officially stated that all of the Squats had been devoured by the Tyranids. The truth however seems to be more complicated. The whole "myth" seems to originally stem from a very selective and imprecise interpretation of the answer of an unnamed Games Workshop employee who was in charge of answering readers' letters in the January 2000 (US) edition of White Dwarf[7] which places this event during the third edition of Warhammer 40,000 which came out in 1998. Reader Tim Gutierrez had vented his frustration at GW dropping the Squats with a message entitled "WE WANT SQUATS!!!" and the answer of the unnamed GW respondent was as follows:

"Would you believe they were all eaten by the Tyranid invasion? Or, due to the Squats biker life style, everyone of them was arrested for disturbing the peace and sacrificed to the Emperor. Where do you think they get all of those souls anyway? All kidding aside, it doesn't seem likely the Squats will ever again see the light of day. When they were out they never seemed very popular, showed up at our stores, or tournaments, and didn't sell on top of all that. Their look was really outdated compared to the hundreds of other great Warhammer 40,000 models. Don't send us hate mail, it's just the cold hard facts of the 41st Millennium."
- unnamed GW employee[7]

Seeing this actual quote makes it quite clear that the "Tyranids ate 'em all" urban legend originally was neither formulated as a definite statement (there even is a question mark there), nor was the text that was often erroneously assumed to have spawned this idea really a very official statement. It was simply a somewhat strange answer by an anonymous Games Workshop mail responder. Based on this source it was just as probable or improbable to believe that all Squats had been sacrificed to the Emperor of Mankind for disturbing the peace on their bikes.[7]

I may have to now look through all Tyranid codecies 2nd edition through to 6th (I don't think it would have been later than that, as I haven't owned any of them) just to satisfy the nagging thoughts at the back of my head!

**chaos0xomega**

Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
MonkeyBallistic wrote:
... they’re now announcing a new faction almost guaranteed to appeal to those people.
Short sci-fi Space Dwarfs appeal to Neo-Nazis?

Well that's a new one...

No One Important wrote:
Just a thought that occurred to me between nightmares but if Nordic imagery and problematic haircuts make things nazis, doesn't that mean the vast majority of female stormcast are nazis? I mean, they've got the undercuts, lightning bolts, take orders from a guy who loves hammers, etc. Strangely the male stormcast seem to have different ideological views as they have different haircuts.
See, I know you're kidding. But there are people who would look at your post and go "By Jove he's right!" and be deadly serious about it.

I mean, on the other hand, GW's scale sprint made it so the Squats are as tall as Cadians, just a lot more wide and buff, so they're not exactly manlets.

Is that even official? I didn't see that on the community website.
That doesn't even make any sense fluff wise; if they are the same height as humans, then why is Squat a derogatory word, and how come in the trailer there was that bit with the camera looking down?

'Tis a fanmade scale comprasion, based on the fact they're most likely gonna be on 28.5mm bases.

So not official, and going off an assumption that has no true basis.

...the basis is they're visibly on 28.5mm bases?

They're visibly on a round base, we have limited means to evaluate whether they are on a 25 or a 28.5 or a 32. Based on that image I am inclined to agree it looks like a 28.5, but when I was playing around with my own photo comparisons using other reference images of guardsmen and marines, etc. photographed from slightly different angles there was a strong argument to be made for 25mm instead - each and every one of the reference photos used there is actually taken at a slightly different angle and that can have a huge impact on how their relative sizes are perceived.

**Crimson**

I really hope that they're on 25mm bases, as that would make their size far more sensible. But 28,5mm unfortunately seems more likely.

**Arbitrator**

Fyreslayers are on 32mm and with how bulky League armour looks compared to the actual Squat I'd not be surprised they were based similarly. The heavier armoured Kharadrons are also on 32s.

**CthuluIsSpy**

How tall is the Necromunda Squat and what base is he on?

**Trog**

MonkeyBallistic wrote:
Sometimes, when I see a new release, my initial negative reaction changes over time.

Naaah! GW’s brand of Flanderised Tolkien dwarfs but in space, with a smidge of (I’m sure unintended) white-supremacist Nordicism is (imho) the worst thing to happen to 40K in recent years.

I’ll not only not be buying them, I’ll also be desperately trying to pretend they don’t exist.

wtf are you saying ahahahahah, white-supremacist Nordicism???, so if a fu... Nazi ,use something no one else can use it ??, in a nutshell let's just leave the monopoly.....
and please dont use politics where it does not exist, if you see Nazis / Communists or whoever you want keep it to yourself people are here to talk about lore and miniatures, not things in the world that have nothing to do with it

**Voss**

Ok, so I knew some wouldn't like the squats, but... wow.

The sheer amount of nonsense some posters have decided to indulge in to convince others they shouldn't like things they don't like is just... a bit much.

**Crimson**

Voss wrote:

The sheer amount of nonsense some posters have decided to indulge in to convince others they shouldn't like things they don't like is just... a bit much.

Isn't that like what at least half of this forum is all about? And yes, it is tiresome.

**Miguelsan**

Arbitrator wrote:
Fyreslayers are on 32mm and with how bulky League armour looks compared to the actual Squat I'd not be surprised they were based similarly. The heavier armoured Kharadrons are also on 32s.

For what it's worth plastic Krieg, that obviously is going to be on the next IG release, is on a 25mm base.

M.

**Wha-Mu-077**

chaos0xomega wrote:
Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
MonkeyBallistic wrote:
... they’re now announcing a new faction almost guaranteed to appeal to those people.
Short sci-fi Space Dwarfs appeal to Neo-Nazis?

Well that's a new one...

No One Important wrote:
Just a thought that occurred to me between nightmares but if Nordic imagery and problematic haircuts make things nazis, doesn't that mean the vast majority of female stormcast are nazis? I mean, they've got the undercuts, lightning bolts, take orders from a guy who loves hammers, etc. Strangely the male stormcast seem to have different ideological views as they have different haircuts.
See, I know you're kidding. But there are people who would look at your post and go "By Jove he's right!" and be deadly serious about it.

I mean, on the other hand, GW's scale sprint made it so the Squats are as tall as Cadians, just a lot more wide and buff, so they're not exactly manlets.

Is that even official? I didn't see that on the community website.
That doesn't even make any sense fluff wise; if they are the same height as humans, then why is Squat a derogatory word, and how come in the trailer there was that bit with the camera looking down?

'Tis a fanmade scale comprasion, based on the fact they're most likely gonna be on 28.5mm bases.

So not official, and going off an assumption that has no true basis.

...the basis is they're visibly on 28.5mm bases?

They're visibly on a round base, we have limited means to evaluate whether they are on a 25 or a 28.5 or a 32. Based on that image I am inclined to agree it looks like a 28.5, but when I was playing around with my own photo comparisons using other reference images of guardsmen and marines, etc. photographed from slightly different angles there was a strong argument to be made for 25mm instead - each and every one of the reference photos used there is actually taken at a slightly different angle and that can have a huge impact on how their relative sizes are perceived.

An entirely fair point, and i hope you're correct - however, Guardians were recently moved from 25mm to 28.5mms, Cadians are a 20 years old kit, and most of newer AoS dwarves are on 28.5mms or larger, outside Kharadron's basic troops, so it seems as if Games Workshop has been largely moving away from using 25mms in recent times and going towards larger base sizes, in tandem with the ever-present scale-creep.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Miguelsan wrote:
Arbitrator wrote:
Fyreslayers are on 32mm and with how bulky League armour looks compared to the actual Squat I'd not be surprised they were based similarly. The heavier armoured Kharadrons are also on 32s.

For what it's worth plastic Krieg, that obviously is going to be on the next IG release, is on a 25mm base.

M.

I'm pretty sure that's only for consistency's sake, so that they have the same base size as the 20 years old Cadians.

**chaos0xomega**

Im a bit of a bleeding heart and even I find the whole white supremacist angle to be a reach. Granted, GW can very easily steer that fluff into full-on fash territory, but hopefully they have better sense and did something interesting with the faction.

**CthuluIsSpy**

Miguelsan wrote:
Arbitrator wrote:
Fyreslayers are on 32mm and with how bulky League armour looks compared to the actual Squat I'd not be surprised they were based similarly. The heavier armoured Kharadrons are also on 32s.

For what it's worth plastic Krieg, that obviously is going to be on the next IG release, is on a 25mm base.

M.

Are krieg going to be the standard?
I mean, I like Krieg, but I'm not sure GW's marketing department wants a bunch of faceless goons to be representative of a faction. Hence why marines and sisters have their helmets off most of the time even though that's a bloody bad idea.

Personally, I'd like to see the return of multiple IG regiments being available. Not just Krieg on the shelves, but Steel Legion, Mordians, Vostoyans, Praets and Valhallans. I thought that was a nice little element of guardsmen that sadly got phased out in favor of pushing a more generic look.

**Voss**

Crimson wrote:Isn't that like what at least half of this forum is all about? And yes, it is tiresome.

Eh. To some degree, but not usually this kind of crud.

**Danny76**

What a waste of time reading most of the posts the last three pages.

So from the few relevant posts;
Bases. How does a Krieg guardsman look next to the Marine and thus a Votann model?
As it’s the most up to date human.
I assume they are taller than a Cadian? So a better comparison?

**Mr_Rose**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
How tall is the Necromunda Squat and what base is he on?

In a desperate bid to stay slightly relevant to miniatures;
Both of them are on 25mm bases and come up to about chest height on an Escher.

**H.B.M.C.**

Voss wrote:
The sheer amount of nonsense some posters have decided to indulge in to convince others they shouldn't like things they don't like is just... a bit much.

Especially given how little we've seen.

We've seen one model. Only thing I don't like is the muted paint scheme, but that's just paint. We've seen nothing else of who these people are or what their mini range looks at.

It's so premature to judge everything about them, or the people playing them.

**CthuluIsSpy**

Mr_Rose wrote:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:
How tall is the Necromunda Squat and what base is he on?

In a desperate bid to stay slightly relevant to miniatures;
Both of them are on 25mm bases and come up to about chest height on an Escher.

Hm, I'm going to assume the Votann are also on 25mm bases then, just for consistency's sake.
It would look bloody weird for a Votann squat to be taller than a Necromunda squat when they just finished telling us that they are the same.

**MonkeyBallistic**

Voss wrote:
Ok, so I knew some wouldn't like the squats, but... wow.

The sheer amount of nonsense some posters have decided to indulge in to convince others they shouldn't like things they don't like is just... a bit much.

Mate, I would never tell someone they shouldn’t like something. I’m merely expressing my own subjective opinion about why I don’t like the new squats, just as other people have explained why they like them … and that’s fine.

I’m not for a minute saying that the new squats are intrinsically (and especially not deliberately) fascist. They just, for me, bring to mind classic fascist tropes. I just find it very disappointing, when there are so many interesting and original things that they could have done to reinvent the squats.

But if you like them, then you go ahead and like them. I’ll never tell you you’re wrong to like anything. Stop pretending that people who hold opinions different from yours are somehow trying to tell you your opinion is wrong when the only people I’ve seen doing that are the one arguing about whether miniatures are monopose or not.

**Toofast**

kodos wrote:
those people (not strange internet groups) say it was not the best idea to do it

Those people sound like they're reaching really far to look for something to be offended about.

**NAVARRO**

This is not a topic about people of any kind.
Not about fascism.
Not about Neonazism
Not about White Supermacism.
Not about Communism.

Its about 28mm toyism.

If you think that 28mm toys are an excuse for you to vomit your personal propaganda crap on others and call it "opinion" then do everyone a favour and dont.

**Mentlegen324**

The original Squats had a Nordic theming too, because that's just a common aspect of fantasy Dwarfs. They had a "League of Thor" for example. It's just them taking a common fantasy dwarf archetype and going a bit more sci-fi with it, thinking there's more to that is just absurd. That theming is just the typically expected styling of Fantasy Dwarfs, I don't see it as any more lazy than having Elves that are tall with pointy ears and elegant, sleek designs. It's just part of how they are.