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Tyran wrote: The disconnect here is that the Leagues of Votann aren't fantasy Dwarves in space, but a sci fi civilization that happens to be made of dwarves.
I am hyped for the leagues of votann. I like how they are a new faction, but they have enough nods to the past to be nostalgic without being just a rehash of old ideas that didn’t work well last time round. The necromunda lot seem cool too, bit more industrial.
lord_blackfang wrote: Well they're an amalgam of a lot of GW's art style issues: hunchbacked, godawfully thick, especially in the arms, you could almost put a Cawdor torso through those massive sleeves, faction identity for some reason boiled down to an ornate belt buckle that doesn't gel with the rest of the design, and of course those mechanically utterly nonsensical guns.
The lack of faction identity is definitely a big issue. It feels like the models lack unique stylization. They're just bland. I hope the same mistakes aren't made with the leagues of votann
These miniatures seem less bland than the one we've seen from the League.They at least have a callback to the original designs and some Dwarf-like Embellishments.
The Leagues don't seem to have any sort of noticeable theming, they come across as generic sci-fi.
I just don't get what they're doing with them at all. The Lack of proper Dwarf Beards, the decision to give them all big bulky suits of armour where their head is buried inside it and the collar comes up to their chin so you can't even really give them beards if you wanted to, the lack of Dwarf-themed elements or anything like that to add a sense of life and culture to the miniatures, the lack of a distinct styling overall beyond just sci-fi, how they're potentially all amputated, how we've now had 3 different versions of Squats....
No noticeable theming?! They shown us two models so far. Hard to spot a theme from that sample size.
We have seen 4 units (excluding the prospectors) to some extent, enough to get an idea of what they're going for in terms of the Kyn themselves. Their vehicles may be another matter, but the Kyn don't look like they have a substantial, unique take on the Dwarf archetype in the same the Kharadron Overlords do with their steampunk-esque style and armoured beard helmets. Instead it's lots of big bulky suits of generic sci-fi armour and little in the way of Dwarf aesthetics. The coat and aviator theming on the Pioneer is good, but underneath it's again that bland armour and it just looks out of place with the clothing.
Grendlesen and to some extent the Ironhead prospectors both feel like a better take on them overall. They both feel a more interesting representation of Sci-fi Dwarfs.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2022/05/08 19:40:17
Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.
Kanluwen wrote: This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.
Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...
tneva82 wrote: You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling.
- No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something...
cuda1179 wrote: I was thinking about the mags. Calico arms did functional helixical magazines, and the are some double barreled auto guns out the. What if the mags are a double helix? Think DNA strand, but with bullets. Each side of the helix feeding a different barrel.
Seems like a dreadful waste of space for very little gain considering Calico drives are already double-stacked.
Personally I think the ridiculously short barrel would be more of a hindrance than any funky feed issues.
Heck, why not double down on ridiculous OTT design and have the “drum” be a revolver-like set of paired barrels full of stacked ceaseless ammo, like Metal Storm?
That does make the ejection port 100% redundant though.
"Three months? I'm going to go crazy …and I'm taking you with me!"
— Vala Mal Doran
Still need an ejection port to clear dud rounds, although not in a metal storm style configuration I suppose. If something goes wrong there it just blows the thing apart…
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/08 20:21:07
Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!
Tyran wrote: The disconnect here is that the Leagues of Votann aren't fantasy Dwarves in space, but a sci fi civilization that happens to be made of dwarves.
I am hyped for the leagues of votann. I like how they are a new faction, but they have enough nods to the past to be nostalgic without being just a rehash of old ideas that didn’t work well last time round. The necromunda lot seem cool too, bit more industrial.
lord_blackfang wrote: Well they're an amalgam of a lot of GW's art style issues: hunchbacked, godawfully thick, especially in the arms, you could almost put a Cawdor torso through those massive sleeves, faction identity for some reason boiled down to an ornate belt buckle that doesn't gel with the rest of the design, and of course those mechanically utterly nonsensical guns.
The lack of faction identity is definitely a big issue. It feels like the models lack unique stylization. They're just bland. I hope the same mistakes aren't made with the leagues of votann
These miniatures seem less bland than the one we've seen from the League.They at least have a callback to the original designs and some Dwarf-like Embellishments.
The Leagues don't seem to have any sort of noticeable theming, they come across as generic sci-fi.
I just don't get what they're doing with them at all. The Lack of proper Dwarf Beards, the decision to give them all big bulky suits of armour where their head is buried inside it and the collar comes up to their chin so you can't even really give them beards if you wanted to, the lack of Dwarf-themed elements or anything like that to add a sense of life and culture to the miniatures, the lack of a distinct styling overall beyond just sci-fi, how they're potentially all amputated, how we've now had 3 different versions of Squats....
No noticeable theming?! They shown us two models so far. Hard to spot a theme from that sample size.
We have seen 4 units (excluding the prospectors) to some extent, enough to get an idea of what they're going for in terms of the Kyn themselves. Their vehicles may be another matter, but the Kyn don't look like they have a substantial, unique take on the Dwarf archetype in the same the Kharadron Overlords do with their steampunk-esque style and armoured beard helmets. Instead it's lots of big bulky suits of generic sci-fi armour and little in the way of Dwarf aesthetics. The coat and aviator theming on the Pioneer is good, but underneath it's again that bland armour and it just looks out of place with the clothing.
Grendlesen and to some extent the Ironhead prospectors both feel like a better take on them overall. They both feel a more interesting representation of Sci-fi Dwarfs.
So it sounds more you like you don’t like what you have seen already. You clearly want fantasy dwarves, but in space. But what we are getting is space dwarves, an new faction that will have their own identity and style. And by the looks of what we have seen, smaller beards.
They tried fantasy dwarves in space early in sending edition and it didn’t work, so badly that they never released them. It’s got to the stage where even fantasy dwarves aren’t that anymore, they are steam punk dwarves. So it doesn’t look like you are getting what you want. But that doesn’t mean they don’t have a theme, or a style, it’s just not one you like.
I have a really soft spot for squats, by squats I mean proper 1sr edition squats. I cut my teeth mostly playing against them. And they were so much more than fantasy dwarves in space, so much more than biker dwarves, in space. Not at all what the memes would have you believe now. And the leagues are looking like a fantastic re-imagining of that and what they could have become. The look is different but that’s good, the old look was very much “short imperial guard”. But the theme is still the same. A technologically advanced group who are outside but tolerated by the imperium, not so far outside and more advanced as to be a threat, just enough to be tolerated. A very precarious position given how intolerant the imperium is. That’s what I have got from the 2 actual models we have seen. Clearly not an imperial faction but with clear nods to it, and clear connections to it.
The miner vibe had already been taken by genestealer cultists, and would be a bit obvious and contrived for a space dwarf faction, but the link to that back ground is still evident. The necromunda squats look plenty like they would fit in with the two models we have seen form the leagues.
But that’s personal taste for you, I like what I have seen so far and would hate what you clearly want.
Guns -- being yet another Brit I don't really get guns, just like GW don't. But could the second barrel be a spare barrel for if you warp or overheat the first one? Easy to replace in the field because it's right there? Physically pull it out and replace? I guess in the real world you wouldn't do that because of the weight -- you'd carry it somewhere else -- but science fantasy superhumans blah blah.
As for "why do the miners have guns and not mining tools" -- presumably because they're depicted going to war, rather than mining? Unless there is a new resource-gathering minigame to add to your wargame.
Ian Sturrock wrote: But could the second barrel be a spare barrel for if you warp or overheat the first one? Easy to replace in the field because it's right there? Physically pull it out and replace?
No because putting a spare barrel next to a flaming, melting barrel would be pretty stupid.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Their visors are going over their eyes. They're oversized visors.
I don't see what the big deal is.
Well, with the design of the helmet, unless they look like this, they can't see either.
You can see the nose on the bottom there, so his nose would be there, and that’s where eyes go.
Because of the angle of the photo you can see we are looking from slightly above, I’d say that straight on they’d be in the exact right spot.
But I guess we will wait for the models
Tyran wrote: The disconnect here is that the Leagues of Votann aren't fantasy Dwarves in space, but a sci fi civilization that happens to be made of dwarves.
I am hyped for the leagues of votann. I like how they are a new faction, but they have enough nods to the past to be nostalgic without being just a rehash of old ideas that didn’t work well last time round. The necromunda lot seem cool too, bit more industrial.
lord_blackfang wrote: Well they're an amalgam of a lot of GW's art style issues: hunchbacked, godawfully thick, especially in the arms, you could almost put a Cawdor torso through those massive sleeves, faction identity for some reason boiled down to an ornate belt buckle that doesn't gel with the rest of the design, and of course those mechanically utterly nonsensical guns.
The lack of faction identity is definitely a big issue. It feels like the models lack unique stylization. They're just bland. I hope the same mistakes aren't made with the leagues of votann
These miniatures seem less bland than the one we've seen from the League.They at least have a callback to the original designs and some Dwarf-like Embellishments.
The Leagues don't seem to have any sort of noticeable theming, they come across as generic sci-fi.
I just don't get what they're doing with them at all. The Lack of proper Dwarf Beards, the decision to give them all big bulky suits of armour where their head is buried inside it and the collar comes up to their chin so you can't even really give them beards if you wanted to, the lack of Dwarf-themed elements or anything like that to add a sense of life and culture to the miniatures, the lack of a distinct styling overall beyond just sci-fi, how they're potentially all amputated, how we've now had 3 different versions of Squats....
No noticeable theming?! They shown us two models so far. Hard to spot a theme from that sample size.
We have seen 4 units (excluding the prospectors) to some extent, enough to get an idea of what they're going for in terms of the Kyn themselves. Their vehicles may be another matter, but the Kyn don't look like they have a substantial, unique take on the Dwarf archetype in the same the Kharadron Overlords do with their steampunk-esque style and armoured beard helmets. Instead it's lots of big bulky suits of generic sci-fi armour and little in the way of Dwarf aesthetics. The coat and aviator theming on the Pioneer is good, but underneath it's again that bland armour and it just looks out of place with the clothing.
Grendlesen and to some extent the Ironhead prospectors both feel like a better take on them overall. They both feel a more interesting representation of Sci-fi Dwarfs.
So it sounds more you like you don’t like what you have seen already. You clearly want fantasy dwarves, but in space. But what we are getting is space dwarves, an new faction that will have their own identity and style. And by the looks of what we have seen, smaller beards.
They tried fantasy dwarves in space early in sending edition and it didn’t work, so badly that they never released them. It’s got to the stage where even fantasy dwarves aren’t that anymore, they are steam punk dwarves. So it doesn’t look like you are getting what you want. But that doesn’t mean they don’t have a theme, or a style, it’s just not one you like.
No, i want the new army that's meant to be the settings representation of the Dwarf archetype to have the elements that make up the Dwarf archetype they're supposed to be and to have their own unique identity for it in the same way the Kharadron Overlords do. You just saying "These are Space Dwarfs, not fantasy Dwarfs in space!" seems as if you're for some reason focusing on the literal "Fantasy" and "Space" aspects which is quite meaningless to the point, as they're the same thing by virtue of being Dwarfs. It sounds like you just don't want Dwarfs to be Dwarfs because it doesn't matter what type of setting it is or what their extra theming involves, there isn't a distinction between a "Fantasy" and ""Space" Dwarf - they're both based on the Dwarf archetype; a set of common traits, themes and styles and those are what defines what they are in the first place. However the setting is they should still have enough of the elements that make up the idea of Dwarfs, and big beards are one of the most iconic aspects of them, but they've for some reason gone for a style of armour that stops you added them even if you want to.to, and combined with the lack of the usual ornamentation (which is helps show the whole master craftsmen with a proud heritage part of their identity) and such it takes away from the whole idea to a significant level. The setting has various stand ins for other tropes; Orcs in Space, Elfs in Space, Dark Elfs in Space, Halflings in Space, Ogres in Space etc and the setting overall to a heavy extent is based around a "Fantasy in Space" idea, but apparently something wanting the Dwarfs to still be noticeably Dwarf themed is suddenly something that shouldn't happen. If the Eldar weren't some variation of magical pointy-eared humanoids with elaborate elegant designs then you couldn't really say they'd be a very good representation of the Elf Archetype.
Saying the Kharadron Overlords aren't "Fantasy Dwarfs" but rather "Steampunk Dwarfs" is again irrelevant, because again the type of setting or their extra theming doesn't change their fundamental aspects and whether or not they have the traits that make up the concept of Fantasy Dwarfs, which they do. They're not the traditional fantasy setting style of them, but they are still firmly embedded in what they should be; They're short, stoic, stocky heavily-bearded humanoids with a theme of them being miners, engineers and industrialists, fondness for drinking, and have embellishments and ornamentation in-line with what you'd expect from them. They may have swapped their usual homes underground for being in the sky and have the Sky Pirate theming added too, but they are still Dwarfs with their own unique take on the concept. They're the Dwarf archetype with a Steampunk twist.
As for you saying "They tried fantasy Dwarfs in space, it didn't work", that keeps getting repeated for some strange reason, but no, that isn't why they were removed at all.
Quote from Jervis Johnson:
No, the reason that the Squats were dropped was because the creatives in the Studio (people like me, Rick, Andy C, Gav etc) felt that we had failed to do the Dwarf 'archetype' justice in its 40K incarnation. From the name of the race (Squats - what *were* we thinking?!?!) through to the short bikers motif, we had managed to turn what was a proud and noble race in Warhammer and the other literary forms where the archetype exists, into a joke race in 40K. We only fully realised what we had done when we were working on the 2nd edition of 40K. Try as we might, we just couldn't work up much enthusiasm for the Squats. The mistake we made then (deeply regreted since) was to leave them in the background and the 'get you by' army list book that appeared. With hindsight, we should have dropped the Squats back then, and saved ourselves a lot of grief later on.
....
Now, while this was all going on for 40K, we were actually doing some rather good stuff for the Squats in Epic. On this scale there was a natural tendancy to focus on the big 'hand-made' war machines the Squat artisans produced, and this created an army with a feel that was very different to the biker hordes in 40K. However, this tended to reinforce the problems we saw in the Squat background rather than alleviate them, underlining what we *should* have done with the Squats in 40K.
They weren't removed for being "Fantasy Dwarfs in Space". They were removed because they weren't proper Dwarfs and they'd taken the Dwarf archetype and gone for a direction that turned them into a joke.
Oh man you are still debating the same "bland" no theme thing? Over and over again? Repeating the same things doesn't make them more visible or worth debating by the contrary just makes them easier to ignore.
The helmet would probably look better if the visor completely covered the face. I don't think the half visor look is doing the models any favors, and if you think about it miners and scavengers would want full face protection anyway.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/09 16:30:04
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
We have seen 4 units (excluding the prospectors) to some extent, enough to get an idea of what they're going for in terms of the Kyn themselves. Their vehicles may be another matter, but the Kyn don't look like they have a substantial, unique take on the Dwarf archetype in the same the Kharadron Overlords do with their steampunk-esque style and armoured beard helmets. Instead it's lots of big bulky suits of generic sci-fi armour and little in the way of Dwarf aesthetics. The coat and aviator theming on the Pioneer is good, but underneath it's again that bland armour and it just looks out of place with the clothing.
Grendlesen and to some extent the Ironhead prospectors both feel like a better take on them overall. They both feel a more interesting representation of Sci-fi Dwarfs.
I disagree! I do like the new direction with clean armour, normal beards and more scifi feel. I wouldnt want the old theme being brought back with half-sized biker-dudes... This is soo much better imo!
That being said, the trike-lass in a trenchcoat over her armour do look good. Too good... (will have to get two, to convert one up to a dismounted leader/heroine... )
NAVARRO wrote: Oh man you are still debating the same "bland" no theme thing? Over and over again? Repeating the same things doesn't make them more visible or worth debating by the contrary just makes them easier to ignore.
New models were shown a few days ago, how they look is being discussed. You complaining doesn't add anything.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/05/09 20:45:34
I'm enjoying the contrast between the soldiers and miners, different aesthetics suit them and the variety is more than welcome.
The full mask looks better than the visor as far as I'm concerned. That said I'll be crossing fingers and looking out for any third party bubble/dome style helmet for a more pulp feel. (I've seen some Intercessors on Dakka somewhere with said bubble helmets and they looked amazing.)
I also forsee some fun bits to be had from the Kharadron line as well, in terms of weapons and more eccentric and ornate helmet style that would fit a character or two. Gunhauler to trike conversion? Somebody more creative than I will surely get it done in a way that looks great!
Just gonna throw it out there that for the month of release, GW should (temporarily) change the name of their magazine to "White Squat" (or similar term of their choice). And one of the figures released later in the cycle should be the legendary commander "The White Squat".
Scrub wrote: I'm enjoying the contrast between the soldiers and miners, different aesthetics suit them and the variety is more than welcome.
The full mask looks better than the visor as far as I'm concerned. That said I'll be crossing fingers and looking out for any third party bubble/dome style helmet for a more pulp feel. (I've seen some Intercessors on Dakka somewhere with said bubble helmets and they looked amazing.)
I also forsee some fun bits to be had from the Kharadron line as well, in terms of weapons and more eccentric and ornate helmet style that would fit a character or two. Gunhauler to trike conversion? Somebody more creative than I will surely get it done in a way that looks great!
Try Bombshell Miniatures they have great bubble helms that fit GSC perfectly (might fit squats well too).
Edit: Spelling
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/10 02:59:04
Tyran wrote: The disconnect here is that the Leagues of Votann aren't fantasy Dwarves in space, but a sci fi civilization that happens to be made of dwarves.
I am hyped for the leagues of votann. I like how they are a new faction, but they have enough nods to the past to be nostalgic without being just a rehash of old ideas that didn’t work well last time round. The necromunda lot seem cool too, bit more industrial.
lord_blackfang wrote: Well they're an amalgam of a lot of GW's art style issues: hunchbacked, godawfully thick, especially in the arms, you could almost put a Cawdor torso through those massive sleeves, faction identity for some reason boiled down to an ornate belt buckle that doesn't gel with the rest of the design, and of course those mechanically utterly nonsensical guns.
The lack of faction identity is definitely a big issue. It feels like the models lack unique stylization. They're just bland. I hope the same mistakes aren't made with the leagues of votann
These miniatures seem less bland than the one we've seen from the League.They at least have a callback to the original designs and some Dwarf-like Embellishments.
The Leagues don't seem to have any sort of noticeable theming, they come across as generic sci-fi.
I just don't get what they're doing with them at all. The Lack of proper Dwarf Beards, the decision to give them all big bulky suits of armour where their head is buried inside it and the collar comes up to their chin so you can't even really give them beards if you wanted to, the lack of Dwarf-themed elements or anything like that to add a sense of life and culture to the miniatures, the lack of a distinct styling overall beyond just sci-fi, how they're potentially all amputated, how we've now had 3 different versions of Squats....
No noticeable theming?! They shown us two models so far. Hard to spot a theme from that sample size.
We have seen 4 units (excluding the prospectors) to some extent, enough to get an idea of what they're going for in terms of the Kyn themselves. Their vehicles may be another matter, but the Kyn don't look like they have a substantial, unique take on the Dwarf archetype in the same the Kharadron Overlords do with their steampunk-esque style and armoured beard helmets. Instead it's lots of big bulky suits of generic sci-fi armour and little in the way of Dwarf aesthetics. The coat and aviator theming on the Pioneer is good, but underneath it's again that bland armour and it just looks out of place with the clothing.
Grendlesen and to some extent the Ironhead prospectors both feel like a better take on them overall. They both feel a more interesting representation of Sci-fi Dwarfs.
So it sounds more you like you don’t like what you have seen already. You clearly want fantasy dwarves, but in space. But what we are getting is space dwarves, an new faction that will have their own identity and style. And by the looks of what we have seen, smaller beards.
They tried fantasy dwarves in space early in sending edition and it didn’t work, so badly that they never released them. It’s got to the stage where even fantasy dwarves aren’t that anymore, they are steam punk dwarves. So it doesn’t look like you are getting what you want. But that doesn’t mean they don’t have a theme, or a style, it’s just not one you like.
No, i want the new army that's meant to be the settings representation of the Dwarf archetype to have the elements that make up the Dwarf archetype they're supposed to be and to have their own unique identity for it in the same way the Kharadron Overlords do. You just saying "These are Space Dwarfs, not fantasy Dwarfs in space!" seems as if you're for some reason focusing on the literal "Fantasy" and "Space" aspects which is quite meaningless to the point, as they're the same thing by virtue of being Dwarfs. It sounds like you just don't want Dwarfs to be Dwarfs because it doesn't matter what type of setting it is or what their extra theming involves, there isn't a distinction between a "Fantasy" and ""Space" Dwarf - they're both based on the Dwarf archetype; a set of common traits, themes and styles and those are what defines what they are in the first place. However the setting is they should still have enough of the elements that make up the idea of Dwarfs, and big beards are one of the most iconic aspects of them, but they've for some reason gone for a style of armour that stops you added them even if you want to.to, and combined with the lack of the usual ornamentation (which is helps show the whole master craftsmen with a proud heritage part of their identity) and such it takes away from the whole idea to a significant level. The setting has various stand ins for other tropes; Orcs in Space, Elfs in Space, Dark Elfs in Space, Halflings in Space, Ogres in Space etc and the setting overall to a heavy extent is based around a "Fantasy in Space" idea, but apparently something wanting the Dwarfs to still be noticeably Dwarf themed is suddenly something that shouldn't happen. If the Eldar weren't some variation of magical pointy-eared humanoids with elaborate elegant designs then you couldn't really say they'd be a very good representation of the Elf Archetype.
Saying the Kharadron Overlords aren't "Fantasy Dwarfs" but rather "Steampunk Dwarfs" is again irrelevant, because again the type of setting or their extra theming doesn't change their fundamental aspects and whether or not they have the traits that make up the concept of Fantasy Dwarfs, which they do. They're not the traditional fantasy setting style of them, but they are still firmly embedded in what they should be; They're short, stoic, stocky heavily-bearded humanoids with a theme of them being miners, engineers and industrialists, fondness for drinking, and have embellishments and ornamentation in-line with what you'd expect from them. They may have swapped their usual homes underground for being in the sky and have the Sky Pirate theming added too, but they are still Dwarfs with their own unique take on the concept. They're the Dwarf archetype with a Steampunk twist.
As for you saying "They tried fantasy Dwarfs in space, it didn't work", that keeps getting repeated for some strange reason, but no, that isn't why they were removed at all.
Quote from Jervis Johnson:
No, the reason that the Squats were dropped was because the creatives in the Studio (people like me, Rick, Andy C, Gav etc) felt that we had failed to do the Dwarf 'archetype' justice in its 40K incarnation. From the name of the race (Squats - what *were* we thinking?!?!) through to the short bikers motif, we had managed to turn what was a proud and noble race in Warhammer and the other literary forms where the archetype exists, into a joke race in 40K. We only fully realised what we had done when we were working on the 2nd edition of 40K. Try as we might, we just couldn't work up much enthusiasm for the Squats. The mistake we made then (deeply regreted since) was to leave them in the background and the 'get you by' army list book that appeared. With hindsight, we should have dropped the Squats back then, and saved ourselves a lot of grief later on.
....
Now, while this was all going on for 40K, we were actually doing some rather good stuff for the Squats in Epic. On this scale there was a natural tendancy to focus on the big 'hand-made' war machines the Squat artisans produced, and this created an army with a feel that was very different to the biker hordes in 40K. However, this tended to reinforce the problems we saw in the Squat background rather than alleviate them, underlining what we *should* have done with the Squats in 40K.
They weren't removed for being "Fantasy Dwarfs in Space". They were removed because they weren't proper Dwarfs and they'd taken the Dwarf archetype and gone for a direction that turned them into a joke.
So we’re are back to a beard and a belt buckle again, that’s all you want!
Being a master craftsman in the 41st millennium might not look like you are dripping in horse brasses, it would mean modern clean looking armour that is better built than imperial stuff, sturdy weapons and functional equipment. All there. The beards is most likely a design choice, because when you take a short model and give it a massive beard you wind up with the models looking very similar from the front, ie, all beard. So from what we have seen they have beards for the most part (not the female one obvs) but smaller beards that allow yiu to have other details on the model.
The other races you mention are great examples of how just sticking guns on a “fantasy” archetype doesn’t work. Space ORKS (as they were actually known for a long time) are very different in appearance and theme to fantasy orcs.
The new leagues of votann so far, we know “ They're short, stoic, stocky heavily-bearded humanoids with a theme of them being miners, engineers and industrialists, fondness for drinking,” but you would like more beards (even though it limits design possibilities and the same themes can be portrayed with a rugged shorter beard style, as well as giving a nod to the few who remember the old biker squats fondly) and more horse brasses, because for some reason in 40000 years time that is how you would show off your engineering skills???
Instead of trying to say GW has got the theming wrong just admit that you want them to have bigger beards, there is nothing intrinsically wrong with the designs (apart from maybe the miners guns) yiu just aren’t keen on them.
Cadre Coronal Afterglow w1;d0;l0 
~4100
~1660
