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Iracundus wrote:
snip

Also "Autarch-pattern" bolters....Does GW need a thesaurus? They seem to be repeating/running out of names.

Nope, they need to update their internal dictionaries...

In the earlier post linked below they are called Autoch-pattern

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/05/20/lore-of-the-votann-ancient-quasi-divine-machine-intellects-make-for-decent-gunsmiths-it-turns-out/

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So a sprue of 5, it would appear.

And I swear one of their helmet domes is so small that it's actually a secret hidden Robo-Squat.

It is. The pin-headed one is 100% an AI.
"Held in equal status in League society, Ironkin also fight shoulder to shoulder with their flesh-and-blood comrades – Kin are Kin, even in war."

Nice to see that the squats don't all have metal feet.

But since they're all clones, what's the deal with the grudge system against killing a squat? If Bob gets killed, they can just grow a new one, right?

Damn it, why must literally all of the Votann lore be so... noblebright? Equality to the max, "limiting unnecessary loss of life", it just doesn't fit 40k. Especially not humans.

Voss wrote:
The proportions just aren't working for me. Some of the models are fine, but not enough. (Ironically, the leader holding his sword up looks like one of the better models to me. His buddy with the 80s-retro shades is a huge nostalgia button, which I actively dislike).

Funnily enough, these proportions are better and more humanlike than Adeptus Uglysquattus (Mk 6 excepted). Which speaks volumes how garbage the latter are seeing these are supposed to be dwarfs not humans. Go figure. They remind me of old XCOM for some reason. Also, I kinda like the leader, just wish the side of blade with longer edge was turned towards the enemy, not the one with exposed cables.

As for heads, I wish Space Wolfwolfs looked like this. These do far better future vikings than terribad faces and hairdos of SW - which, again, is telling because these are modelled to look dwarfy, not human. Again, just shows how bad old SM range is...

I guess the dome head is the squad robot? He even has metal robot legs, which BTW solves one RE. Felt that one looked too small for 60 mm base proper big robot unlike AM ones.

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
My only concern/point of curiosity is where are they going with the backstory. They again pretty heavily imply that life in the leagues is pretty good for the average Kin, and since this is 40k after all, I'm wondering where the catch is. Is this some kind of elaborate Omelas scenario, or are the Leagues just figuratively cocking the snook at the grimdark excesses every other faction needs to rely on to even survive, all the while just generally having a pretty nice time?

There probably is some hidden grimdark, but even Imperium would be much nicer place to live in if they had intact STC instead of toaster worshipers. Though, article downplays SM too much IMO, yes, there are dumb chapters but BA, WS, Ultramarines. Salamanders and the like also have fulfilling lives outside of war. They are just a lot busier thanks to far more threats attacking human planets, LoV are relatively isolated and shielded by Imperium.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So a sprue of 5, it would appear

Yup, sprue of 5 with 10+ legs, 8+ torsos, 12+ pairs of arms, 11+ heads, 16+ weapons, and that's just the stuff we saw painted

Someone mentioned the lack of dwarf-y runes and faces on the other revealed models, and it kind of stands out here too. No symbols like aquilas, chaos stars, cogs, or anything to tie the faction together

But I don't think the OG squats had that many dwarf runes or faces plastered everywhere, and it definitely helps keep them away from generic dwarfs in space

forget helmets I want a whole squad with those shades

I like them.

 Irbis wrote:

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
My only concern/point of curiosity is where are they going with the backstory. They again pretty heavily imply that life in the leagues is pretty good for the average Kin, and since this is 40k after all, I'm wondering where the catch is. Is this some kind of elaborate Omelas scenario, or are the Leagues just figuratively cocking the snook at the grimdark excesses every other faction needs to rely on to even survive, all the while just generally having a pretty nice time?

There probably is some hidden grimdark, but even Imperium would be much nicer place to live in if they had intact STC instead of toaster worshipers. Though, article downplays SM too much IMO, yes, there are dumb chapters but BA, WS, Ultramarines. Salamanders and the like also have fulfilling lives outside of war. They are just a lot busier thanks to far more threats attacking human planets, LoV are relatively isolated and shielded by Imperium.

I dunno, all the squad commanders appear to be chasing the dragon, which can't be an entirely good thing... *getscoat*

Iron Kin are the best models from that squad.

I don't really see how that's all that much more than an old school marine or guardsmen.

I like the overall asthetics moreso than the Necromunda versions. I'm excited to see the rest.

Iracundus wrote:
New info on the hearthkyn

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/06/20/the-mighty-hearthkyn-are-the-core-of-the-leagues-of-votanns-armies-and-here-they-are/


Personally, I can't say I am fond of all the bare faces, when you have a perfectly good armored faceplate/helmet. Also "Autarch-pattern" bolters....Does GW need a thesaurus? They seem to be repeating/running out of names.
Those pictures also show that their women are not bearded.

Sigh...
more middling-designed armored figures. Good-enough sculpts, but gosh, this faction is looking "meh". I'm seeing almost nothing Squat-ish about them and aside from the angry dog arch, there's very little Dwarf'ish about them either. Further, except that they are short and stumpy, there's very little to differentiate them from the dozens of different semi-armored sci-fi designs from any number of companies.

Also, seeing it on a miniature, I hate the Nerf Mk.40k pistols more than ever. Luckily, it does appear to be optional and the redesign of the Plasma pistol is well done.

Overall, I like them. However, the one with pistol and blade looks a bit Eggs on Legs for me. Might just be the pic’s angle.

Can someone explain their ankles? Are they not all far too thin?

I think it’s just bulky over suits making them look disproportionately thin in the ankle.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:
Can someone explain their ankles? Are they not all far too thin?

As a fellow Tau player, what could possibly go wrong with that design choice?

 Irbis wrote:
Yup, sprue of 5 with 10+ legs, 8+ torsos, 12+ pairs of arms, 11+ heads, 16+ weapons, and that's just the stuff we saw painted

I didn't notice the walking legs were flipped in box pics, so thought they were the same.

But hey, never pass up an opportunity to nitpick people Irby. It's essentially the only thing you know how to do...

They look better with helmets. They also remind me of Starcraft Marines with helmets.

I'm not sure about their shoulders. They seem too high, or the heads too low.

 GaroRobe wrote:
But since they're all clones, what's the deal with the grudge system against killing a squat? If Bob gets killed, they can just grow a new one, right?

That's how Dark Eldar cloning works, but I don't think that's how Squats do it. As I read it the cloning thing they have going is there to produce individuals with tailored traits rather than exact copies of previous Squats. Even if they produced mature clones, which I don't believe we have any evidence of, you'd notice the difference between Drinking Buddy Bob and Blank Slate Bob right away because one of them has a lifetime of experiences while the other is fresh out of the tube.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:
Can someone explain their ankles? Are they not all far too thin?

The ankles are a combination of conventionally sized ankles and boots (within GW proportions, which generally means oversized feet and similarly sized or slightly narrower ankles) coupled with very voluminous pants. The latter make sense from the perspective of space suits with proper insulation. Transitioning into the ankles they just don't really narrow down but keep their size all the way down.

I don't have a problem with them and as far as I'm concerned I don't think these are anywhere close to the awful proportions on Phobos Marine leg.

Well as expected these look awesome! Great fresh design away from the ZZ top beardy gang bikers of the past.

These will be great alongside Necromunda miners ( just need to shave the ridiculous dwarf belt).

Overall this is just about all I wanted for Squats. Genuinely look fun to paint too.

Sold on all of it.

Maybe I'm over-influenced by the paint scheme (there are plenty of differences in the armor after all), but I finally figured out why the Votann are inspiring this sense of deja'vu.

Anyone remember the AT43 Karmans....

I really don't get what they're doing with the Dwarf aesthetics. Almost nothing about their designs give off a feeling of them being a proud martial race of mastercraftsmen with a strong sense of culture who hold their ancestors in high regard and with the Votann being an integral part of their society. It's like they suddenly remembered they didn't add anything to show that so hurriedly stuffed in a few bits on them randomly, like the Theyns backpack banner and how only a single one of their weapons (the bolter) has been shown with any sort of pattern on it, to give off the barest hints of something that's been said is meant to be part of them and the archetype as a whole.

 Geifer wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:
Can someone explain their ankles? Are they not all far too thin?

The ankles are a combination of conventionally sized ankles and boots (within GW proportions, which generally means oversized feet and similarly sized or slightly narrower ankles) coupled with very voluminous pants. The latter make sense from the perspective of space suits with proper insulation. Transitioning into the ankles they just don't really narrow down but keep their size all the way down.

I don't have a problem with them and as far as I'm concerned I don't think these are anywhere close to the awful proportions on Phobos Marine leg.

Them being Dwarfs in armour reminiscent of spacesuits does explain it somewhat, they did say their armour is void-sealed after all. Still would have proffered more normal looking boots, though.

Dislike the new Squats more the more they show, sadly. Shame as they were my main army in Epic!

 Eilif wrote:
Maybe I'm over-influenced by the paint scheme (there are plenty of differences in the armor after all), but I finally figured out why the Votann are inspiring this sense of deja'vu.

Anyone remember the AT43 Karmans....

I do, some really nice models but sorry to say no I don't see much of the parallel.

Either way I think GW did well with the design direction, dipping in different conceptual routes.
I would dare to say Primaris first incarnation was the tipping point into some clean and sleek look but unfortunately they seem to be falling into the trap of decorating for the sake of decorating there.

Everyone has an idea of what 40k should look like... but only a few times GW actually took the leap into something less expectable. Age of sigmar is a perfect example of what fresh designs can achieve and I welcome that into 40k.

I like the clean look with callbacks to retro sci-fi (and thus early human expansion). I think it would feel really phoned in if it was literally just twisting nordic knots and finely chiseled longhouse heads all over the place - you don't have to have the same aesthetic as a fantasy dwarf to carry over ideology or demeanor (and for that matter, why does something have to be decorative to be artisinal? They could value clean lines).

If they had done that I would have found the faction pretty uninspiring. As for their lack of grimdark, I'm sure we will see some threads here or there regarding their failing Votann or maybe some hush hush ominous portents about AI.

I hope they get classified as 'Xenos' and not part of the Imperium in any way. I like the idea of a society that isn't a complete hellhole in this setting because their very existence IS grimdark (and echoes some Tau concepts) - alone in the vast night full of ork/chaos/imperium barbarity, they stand alone against impossible odds and hold true to their values for their own people. What's more dwarfy than that?

 Gratlugg wrote:
I like the clean look with callbacks to retro sci-fi (and thus early human expansion). I think it would feel really phoned in if it was literally just twisting nordic knots and finely chiseled longhouse heads all over the place - you don't have to have the same aesthetic as a fantasy dwarf to carry over ideology or demeanor (and for that matter, why does something have to be decorative to be artisinal? They could value clean lines).

If they had done that I would have found the faction pretty uninspiring. As for their lack of grimdark, I'm sure we will see some threads here or there regarding their failing Votann or maybe some hush hush ominous portents about AI.

I don't think it would be uninspired considering those things are part of the Dwarf Archetype. The Eldar are still Space Elves at their core and follow the aesthetics you'd expect of that, the settings Space Dwarfs should do the same sort of thing with realizing their archetypes look, obviously with a unique theme like the Kharadron Overlords Steampunk Sky Pirates.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:
I really don't get what they're doing with the Dwarf aesthetics. Almost nothing about their designs give off a feeling of them being a proud martial race of mastercraftsmen with a strong sense of culture who hold their ancestors in high regard and with the Votann being an integral part of their society. It's like they suddenly remembered they didn't add anything to show that so hurriedly stuffed in a few bits on them randomly, like the Theyns backpack banner and how only a single one of their weapons (the bolter) has been shown with any sort of pattern on it, to give off the barest hints of something that's been said is meant to be part of them and the archetype as a whole.

Thankfully, you're only one of like 2-3 people in here constantly complaining that the LoV aren't just a flat, lazy go at SPACE DWARFS.

You know that's probably not what most people want, right? And that the long history of 40K has been filled with examples of the playerbase begging GW not to just squirt out 1:1 analogues between their sci-fi and fantasy IPs (with SPACE UNDEAD/SPACE TOMB KINGS) probably being one of the more recent, controversial examples).

Also interesting that in a place like Dakka one can observe a person presenting your idea of bad design and then immediately see a post like this following it:

 jojo_monkey_boy wrote:
Why is it that so much of what GW puts out these days feels over-designed from a compositional perspective?

My brain is immediately overwhelmed when I look at those new models. There is so much going on and competing for attention, that it all gets drowned out together. The swords and weapons are particularly bad when placed against the armour and belt details. It's just too much.

But there isn't a lot going on with these models. Other than the ugly antique rainfall showerheads lofting over the squad leaders'(?) heads there's not a lot of puerile faction iconography or "LE release day collectible badge!" -style decorations festooned all over the squad members. This is a good thing. They look like they're wearing combat uniforms and not parade uniforms, and won't require knives and clippers to achieve that battle-ready appearance. "Belt details," are you kidding? The belt details consist of pouches and holsters-too-small-for-a gun (ie. the two critical, life-sustaining items all humanoids need to survive in the 40K setting) and a few carabiners (that, thank god, do not have anything attached to them, and will not require emergency keychain-surgery like GSC troopers do).

 NAVARRO wrote:

These will be great alongside Necromunda miners ( just need to shave the ridiculous dwarf belt).

This is the way.

I don't think they are too bland or too detailed - there's just something pushing my uncanny valley button. It feels like a niche fan project rather than a GW product. Kind of have a similar view on a lot of Necromunda stuff - where "its like 40k, but wrong".

It might just be because they are new - and maybe people felt the same about Tau 20 years ago. But yeah, the more I see, the more I feel it.

I'm also trying to imagine it all with a grimdark paint scheme and Chaos Dwarf heads.

I wonder if the heads from that kit wil fit on the Necromunda squats. The Necro squat kit only has 5 heads, but these look like they'd be great for unhelmeted models or to simply individualize models in the gang.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Overall, I like them. However, the one with pistol and blade looks a bit Eggs on Legs for me.

So they're clearly nailing the Squat aesthetic then.

I think they have a lot more character than Tau. I never really liked Tau except for a few of the kits, maybe like 20% of the range.