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Sunny Side Up wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

So roughly on par then. Fair enough. What do you mean by built in AoC? That means they get resistance against pen, right?
By ignoring rerolls, do you mean that the opponent doesn't get rerolls to hit / wound.

They all have void armour (haven't found a datasheet without it).

Reduce AP by 1, no wound or damage re-rolls

Yeah, that's pretty handy then. That means you need AP -5 to deny their save.
Not sure how useful the wound or damage re-rolls is going to be though.
Damage rerolls are pointless against 1w models and how many attacks reroll wounds? Usually it's reroll hits that's the problem.

I mean, maybe no wound-re-roll doesn't come up. But it's just straight up better Salamanders/Iron Warriors/Valorous Heart Chapter Tactic for freebeez before you even add you Dworf-Chapter Tactic. Sure for the basic 1-wound infantry, damage re-roll doesn't matter. But all the characters, tanks, etc.. all have that rule. It's just an army rule basically.


And you can turn off re-rolls to hit as well on some units, e.g. the Bikes.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Don't NASA vehicles have treads too though?

Depends on the vehicle - Perseverance, the latest Mars rover, has six fairly wide wheels, for example.

 Hulksmash wrote:

Sunny Side Up wrote:
That does seem a lot better than an 11 point Battle Sister

Fairly on par. Slower, less defense, no invul, but better offensively. Seems fair. Plus you gotta take 10 of these. Stupid 5 man sister squads

Wait, what's wrong with 5 man squads? Having that option is better, isn't it, due to tactical flexibility / cost?
Also, if you need to take squats in 10 man squads that makes them even more comparable to Necron warriors.

A whole twelve units (one of which is a special character).

Woooow.

Get ready for wave two in about eighteen months I guess.

 xttz wrote:
Most of the rules from the votann codex have leaked online as a small PDF file. Not going to post it but if you're Very Online you probably know where to find it.

10-20 per Troops squad hey?

And 10-20 Daemon units would'a killed 'em?

 Lord Damocles wrote:
A whole twelve units (one of which is a special character).

It's more than Thousand Sons or Harlequins got.

Or custodes. Or knights.
For a new cash gra-er, army, it's better than what GW did before.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 xttz wrote:
Most of the rules from the votann codex have leaked online as a small PDF file. Not going to post it but if you're Very Online you probably know where to find it.

10-20 per Troops squad hey?

And 10-20 Daemon units would'a killed 'em?

So is this meant to be a horde army or an elite army? Because I could have sworn that the fluff for them described them as being a small and well-equipped force.
Interesting to see that the ion blaster is not, in fact, part of their base equipment but an upgrade. I was kind of hoping that they wouldn't be yet another another army of bolters, but oh well.

Hmm...

Leaky McLeakerson wrote:Skeinwrought Discipline

Interface Echo (WC5) - Gain 1CP, can take you above the normal limit of gaining/regenerating CP.

Fortify (WC6) - Core or Character within 12". Gain +1T and a 6+ shrug.

Ancestral Wrath (WC6) - Enemy within 18". Roll 3D6 (or 6D6 on 11+). 4+ = MW. Add to result of there are Judgement Tokens on the unit.

Grudgepyre (WC4) - Non-vehicle/character/monster within 18". 2D6 and add Judgement Tokens. If result > enemy LD, one model in that unit is destroyed*. Owning player's choice.

Null Vortex (WC8) - One enemy within 12". No Invul saves.

Crushing Contempt (WC6) - Enemy unit within 18". Roll 3D6. Greater or equal to LD, unit cannot perform actions/auto-fails current action. If greater than enemy Ld, all models in that unit suffer -1 from attack rolls.

So those are the NotSquat psychics.


*I hate rules that "destroy" units and completely bypass the methodology of strength/toughness, AP/Saves, Damage/Wounds. It's why 8th/9th's morale system sucks ass.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
And 10-20 Daemon units would'a killed 'em?

Maybe they're making some effort to rein in the size of units that can just teleport right up to the enemy.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
11pts for infantry? What are their stats again? 11pts puts them on par with a Necron warrior, iirc, which seems kind of high?

M5" WS3+ BS3+ S4 T4 W1 2A Ld7 Sv3+

But you gotta remember those come with a built-in AoC and ignoring re-rolls.

4+ save from the battle report on warhammer+

All of the Leagues look good. The one that jumps out at me is Urani-Surtr: '+1 T to everything in the army' (amongst other benefits). This means T5 troops and T6 Einhyr (the mini-Termies), which can receive a further +1T from a psychic power, and T9 Land Fortresses. This is by no means an auto-pick, though, which gives an idea of the strength of the others.

The Berserks could be a bit obnoxious into the right target? They are base T5 with 2W, only a 6+ save, but a 5+++ that turns into a 4+++ vs damage-1. They also fight on death. Oh and that 6+ save is still void armour, so you can't reroll wounds or damage against them.

There's a custom trait (you choose 3) that gives you +2 to charge vs a unit that has 1+ judgement tokens. Good for deep-striking Einhyr.

An observation: I'm sure the lore snippets mentioned them cloning 'safe' psykers or something. Nope, they perils as normal, they just have 2 robots which they can essentially shrug 1 perils off onto each. Once the robots are dead, they're bog-standard psykers.

 Dysartes wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Don't NASA vehicles have treads too though?

Depends on the vehicle - Perseverance, the latest Mars rover, has six fairly wide wheels, for example.

I think that's where NASApunk gets in trouble. It's a cool look by itself and can be beefed up to a point, but once you move into the realm of heavy military equipment, it becomes inadequate. NASA doesn't build stuff with the expectation of getting zapped by Martians. Squats very much should.

I'd have preferred to see all the NASApunk stuff to be the militia element of the army. Improvised, cheaper, perhaps faster, perhaps with scouting and ECM* rules. But leave the actual heavy lifting to combat units with purpose built equipment.



*Where the E may stand for both electronic and esoteric, given the nature of 40k.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
*I hate rules that "destroy" units and completely bypass the methodology of strength/toughness, AP/Saves, Damage/Wounds. It's why 8th/9th's morale system sucks ass.

Whenever I see such a rule I imagine a stoned rules designer go "Woah! Cinematic!"

Whole coded was leaked online, from my skim read on the Tube here are some tidbits:

- whole army pretty much has Armour of Contempt, with the addition that you can't reroll wounds or damage against them.
- new Huntr and Beam weapons. Beam works similar to that in 30k and Titanicus, haven't found a reason why Huntr is a thing.
- quite a fair number of Invuln ignoring weapons.
- Judgement Tokens are gained from a unit performing an action, killing a Voltaan unit, or being in range of an objective marker.

Aight, that's a lot of new stuff, what I be said about it?

The Land Fortress is a big L for me. It's just a slightly bigger version than the moon buggy, it doesn't look impressive or unique and share the same problem than the Primaris tanks: a lack of distinctive outline and a bunch of random guns tapped everywhere.

It should have add at least a fourt set of wheels more if they wanted to have it look like a real "LAND FORTESS", or just go with good old tracks. And ofc no "land train" gimick here to be seen.
Doesn't deserve the name "Land Fortress".

Ûthar the destined sufffers from the same problem than Nobody the landshark rider the Snakebites got no that long ago, a character that couldn't get his own kit and just end up looking like the generic lord he is the alt build of, but here it's even worse sinc ethe unique and distinctive bit of the character, the backpack banner thing, clearly should have been part of the generic lord kit to helm him stand out without the need of that silly rock.

A shame that GW is too cheap to give him (and the snakebite dude) a proper unique kit, especially when they can pump out so many useless kits that nobody asked for exclusive event or for specialist game.
Hell, I got the "store exclusive" mini for the release of the new Warcry last week, and was pretty shocked to discover that it was literally just a mini from one of the team sprue... moved to its own unique sprue. I don't want anyone ever again try to tell me "huuur making mold is expensive".

The Einhyr Champion looks kinda cool, even he is is probably the one with the most pronounced "clear ripoff of SC2 marauder" look of the faction, but he gains points by having what I expected the whole faction to have, cool engravings and runes. He sadly lost ALL thos points with his stupid Primaris Ragnar pose that just look silly on a stunty shortstack that will move slowly down the board.

The Brôkhyr Iron-master looks nice, but honestly the more I see thos coats, the less I like them, especially when they went from the equivalent of the Eldar Ranger cloack, a thing used by a specific recon group, to just... be a fashion statement randomly thrown out on the faction. Ofc mandatory tactical rock. But what really kills it for me isn't the Brôkhyr himself, but his robot helpers and their cancerous basing.
It's yet another case of the rampant new miniature design we saw going strong with the new necrons, where your base have to be clutered with gak you may not want, but are forced to use because they are literally part of the miniautre. What's that? You didn't want your army base theme to be "Junkyard and ruins"? Welp too back for you bucko.

The Grimnyr I like a LOT actually. He looks exactly like what I expected a dwarf wizard to look like. I just hope he'll get at least SOME customisations bit, like different staff. While his base is next level stupid tactical rock, for once I don't mind it too much since its actually relevant to the character power. He is the one making thos rocks fly, they aren't just random gak he just stepped on. That said, just like what I said for the previous mini, this is also one of thos things that just decides for you what your base will be, and it's annoying.
And since apparently GW can't seem to have a single win in there, what ruins it for me are thos two robots that comes with him.

They look cool, but why are they carrying bolters if their roles is to help him tap into the warp? And more importantly, if they can have that kind of flying robots with gun, why aren't they actually fielding units of them?
That's a massive plot hole if I've ever seen one.

And last and very least, the Cthonian Beserk Mole Grenade Launcher what the hell is that?
It's supposed to be a heavy weapon option for the Berserker unit? A standalone thing? Who thot that the naked frothing berserker was the right time of base to make a heavy weapon option? Why does it comes with a silly robot caddie carrying its weapon on its back like if they were going for a fun afternoon of golf? And what the feth is a subterranean grenade launcher?

This is awful all around.

Hey, at least I can say that I like that starter box... until I see the price ofc. If that thing is more expensive than a standard combat patrol I'll be liking it way less.

HunTR weapons exist because there was weirdly no 'this weapon just shoots X amount of shots and there are no other rules' type, so they invented one. Kind of weird now that I think of it.

The whole army without exception has the funky Void Armour, even the Beserks (just a 6+ save for them though).

We've seen Beam effects on various other short-ranged weapons before but I think this is the first time it's been permitted at long ranges. There are 30" Beam weapons and I believe 18" ones too, which can all be boosted 4" by a League Custom (whenever I see that phrase I just think of Mek Speshul )

Edit: the Mole grenade launcher thing is an upgrade for the Beserk unit. It can fire at units out of line of sight. I have no idea why you'd take it on your raging beserkers and lose 3 AP-3 damage 3 attacks.

Edit 2: someone below says it can deny overwatch with a strat. So I guess that's why!

 Valkyrie wrote:

haven't found a reason why Huntr is a thing..

Seems like there's no pros but no cons either. So you'd expect Thunderkyn to have a lot of Heavy weapons but instead they have Huntr and skip expected penalties.

 (HN) wrote:

And last and very least, the Cthonian Beserk Mole Grenade Launcher what the hell is that?
It's supposed to be a heavy weapon option for the Berserker unit? A standalone thing? Who thot that the naked frothing berserker was the right time of base to make a heavy weapon option? Why does it comes with a silly robot caddie carrying its weapon on its back like if they were going for a fun afternoon of golf? And what the feth is a subterranean grenade launcher?.

It's to be used with a stratagem that denies Overwatch and worsens to-hit-rolls, and the thingy is meant to be used as a marker for the unit that was hit with the stratagem.
Edit: Got confused, it actually halves movement of the unit and gives it Fight Last. What I wrote first is for CONCUSSION units only, which they're not - my bad!
And really, you do not get the idea of a "subterranean grenade launcher" that's called "mole"? You might want to google what a mole is. You'll get the idea


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Arbitrator wrote:

 Valkyrie wrote:

haven't found a reason why Huntr is a thing..

Seems like there's no pros but no cons either. So you'd expect Thunderkyn to have a lot of Heavy weapons but instead they have Huntr and skip expected penalties.

yeah, that's the point. It's simply "Basic Gun X" , but the're calling it HunTR. If it survives into 10th I'd expect them to just add a basic gun type to the core rules and use that instead. Should've been a thing in the first place to save us from all the Heavy models that ignore the movement tohit penalty.

Twilight Pathways wrote:

Edit: the Mole grenade launcher thing is an upgrade for the Beserk unit. It can fire at units out of line of sight. I have no idea why you'd take it on your raging beserkers and lose 3 AP-3 damage 3 attacks.

And you do not loose the attacks. One in 5 models can be quipped with the launcher, it doesn't have to replace anything with that, AND the model even gains 1 wound and 1 attack. Totally worth the 10 points in my opinion.

Twilight Pathways wrote:


Edit: the Mole grenade launcher thing is an upgrade for the Beserk unit. It can fire at units out of line of sight. I have no idea why you'd take it on your raging beserkers and lose 3 AP-3 damage 3 attacks.

Edit 2: someone below says it can deny overwatch with a strat. So I guess that's why!

you dont lose the 3 ap3 dmg 3 attacks either, the launcher is in addition to the beserker axe. thats why it comes with the L-COG model carrying the axe for the beserker

So...there's really no reason for the Beserks to not use armour OR ranged weapons now?

When I think Berserkers what I picture is precise and carefully triangulated artillery support, done from a safe distance by a bunch of half naked men, obviously.

Jesus they really didn't think the concept through did they.

I liked my idea of a bunch of dwarf Senator Armstrongs better.
I have no idea what they are trying to do with Beserks, but I know that the models don't look great and the grenade launcher doesn't really fit the whole melee unit role.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
When I think Berserkers what I picture is precise and carefully triangulated artillery support, obviously.

Jesus they really didn't think the concept through did they.

I'm still stuck on how silly and unnecessary the robot caddie carrying the mele weapon is. It looks so... out of place.


"Here my robot friend, hold my weapon while I do some artillery support would you. Remember to give it back to me and run behind me when the moment to charge will come."

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
When I think Berserkers what I picture is precise and carefully triangulated artillery support, obviously.

Jesus they really didn't think the concept through did they.

They really didn't.

Dwarf Slayers don't use armour or ranged weapons because their whole thing is basically crazed Dwarfs punishing themselves to try and atone for something.

The Cthonian Beserks were said not to use armour and eschew ranged weapons for reasons of being "brave" and "Courageous", which in itself is pretty bad lore for it. But they then give one of them a ranged weapon. So now they make even less sense than they did before.

 Hulksmash wrote:

Sunny Side Up wrote:
That does seem a lot better than an 11 point Battle Sister

Fairly on par. Slower, less defense, no invul, but better offensively. Seems fair. Plus you gotta take 10 of these. Stupid 5 man sister squads

It's absolutely not on par. You don't need an Invul when you already bump all AP down by 1.

 Valkyrie wrote:
haven't found a reason why Huntr is a thing.

Oh so its not just me? I was feeling really dumb, could not find any advantage or benefit to the rule whatsoever other than the fact that (as others stated) its distinctly non-special (in that it offers absolutely no advantages or disadvantages in terms of how it interacts with movement, range, etc.)

I read the Einhyr Champion's name as actually being Einhyr Champion (first name,last name) as opposed to being the unit type 😂

chaos0xomega wrote:

 Valkyrie wrote:
haven't found a reason why Huntr is a thing.

Oh so its not just me? I was feeling really dumb, could not find any advantage or benefit to the rule whatsoever other than the fact that (as others stated) its distinctly non-special (in that it offers absolutely no advantages or disadvantages in terms of how it interacts with movement, range, etc.)

See, but that's why it exists. It's a type of gun that explicitly doesn't interact with stuff, it's not Assault nor Heavy nor Rapid Fire nor Pistol, just a set number of shots and literally nothing else. Weird we didn't have it before, tbh

For those that have seen the unit entry, what do the unit weapons options look like for the troops units? As in, how many guys can be upgraded to carry a heavy weapon?

 cuda1179 wrote:
For those that have seen the unit entry, what do the unit weapons options look like for the troops units? As in, how many guys can be upgraded to carry a heavy weapon?

10 - 19 models: 2 models can take fancy guns
20 models: 4 models can take fancy guns
Leader can take fancy pistol and a choice of combat weapons