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 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 Togusa wrote:

The one thing I don't get is why so many people get so upset over the use of the term Squat?

It would be like calling Orks piggies or Eldar skinnys. It works as an insulting nickname but not something they'd want to be called.

Perhaps it's a native word that got corrupted? Sq'hwt maybe?

Not too impressed with Leagues of Votann as a name, back in MY day they were organized into Guilds darn it, not leagues.

The Demiurge (a name that sent me down a wikihole into the Gnostic Heresy and turned out to be very handy when reading Umberto Ecco) was a better name but ah well. Also not too impressed with the 1 model we've seen, looks too clean and Apple Computers/Tau. I'd have rather gotten something more Steam Punk.

But all of that is fine. No one's going to make me buy them.

They were always in leagues, guilds was just the engineers.

I do wonder if fresh minds are bringing about this renaissance of Rogue Trader era goodness.

See. Something like Squats, Zoats etc? For those who originally put them in the game, they’re a set idea. And seemingly one they’re not especially proud of when it comes to the implementation.

And that can create a mental block. Phobia isn’t exactly the right word, but it’s in the ballpark of my thinking. A concept you just can’t see past your initial failure to what could be.

With the Design Studio seemingly ever expanding? Someone’s head canon type frothing over a cup of coffee (well, tea, because we’re British) could find purchase. A fresh perspective which resonates with everything you originally found cool, but with a spin which brushes away your bad memories.

As I think I said elsewhere, Squats in 40K were perhaps a victim of technology and finances at the time. In Epic, they have a definite and strong identity on the board. But going back to the olden days, 40K just….couldn’t do that.

Yes over the past 20-25 years or so we’ve seen plastic kits get ever more complex and ambitious (I think better, but let’s not argue the toss on that). And one can absolutely argue Squats could’ve been done 40K scale justice well before now. But, Marines aside (because again let’s maintain focus and not go for low hanging fruit), the other races were being properly fleshed out and expanded upon. They still existed, and rightly or wrongly they were the focus.

I am very interested to see how Squats turn out. I like the teases we’ve seen, and I do wonder what else is yet to be shown.

Personally super happy to have squats back, always played ORKS and when I was getting into 40k my mate played squats. Up until 3rd edition (the best time in the game IMO) most my games were against the little buggers. So so pleased to see them back, and I am glad they haven’t just given steam punk in them. That was only ever one aspect of them. They were so much more back in their day. Their basic troops and command were not that way at all.excited for the future space miner look.

This feels like a time for Anecdotes.

I have but one Squat related actual game anecdote.

As ever, it occurred many many moons ago, when I was young and some may have been even younger, others still younger but older than I was. In 2nd Ed.

Usual Sunday mega battle at GW Tunbridge Wells. Someone had a clutch of Squats, including a Living Ancestor.

They used the Squat Psychic Power Dominate, on Abaddon who had only just teleported in.

See, in those days, Terminators were the only unit I can think of who could Teleport/Deepstrike. Normally it was a purchased ability which I think was something like +50% to your squad’s cost. But Abaddon and his besties could do it for free. You could also Teleport out - but couldn’t then return.

Dominate (Domination?) was a power where if your opponent failed a Ld test (not a psychology test!), you could make them perform one action, but not suicide.

There was Abaddon. And his mates. All big and scary, right in the enemy lines. Wee bit of psychic pressure, and one failed Ld test later? Abaddon and his entourage promptly worried they’d left the cooker on, and departed the field.

The only time I personally saw Squats in action, and it was perfect.

^Brilliant!!!

I recall seeing Force Dome activated and on the table via a Squat psyker, blocking a path through terrain, but nothing so epic as Abaddon leaving the table. Ha!

 Togusa wrote:
The one thing I don't get is why so many people get so upset over the use of the term Squat?

It's a (regional?) colloquialism for taking a gak.

 Insectum7 wrote:
^Brilliant!!!

I recall seeing Force Dome activated and on the table via a Squat psyker, blocking a path through terrain, but nothing so epic as Abaddon leaving the table. Ha!

Ah man... I have some good memories / game anecdotes...

That force dome was a fun one... I remember plunking it down on top of two special characters in close combat essentially removing them from the game. And of course, despite essentially being trapped in the bubble, we had to resolve the combat to find out who came out on top!

Another story I remember was a massive game where someone was rolling an Armorcast Baneblade down the side of the board. I had the "Flank March" strategy card and brought a single tiny unit on to the side of the board... right in front of it. Its not hard to imagine how absolutely tiny those models looked in front of that super heavy tank. And, how unintimidated the opponent was by them... until he saw the effects of the obscure "Graviton Gun" wargear card he had never heard of...

... roll for hit location as normal but ignore armour penetration. Roll for damage on the appropriate vehicle location damage chart(s) adding +1 to the dice score...

The Baneblade got one shot and flipped over (almost crushing the Squats).

Catulle wrote:

 Togusa wrote:
The one thing I don't get is why so many people get so upset over the use of the term Squat?

It's a (regional?) colloquialism for taking a gak.

Huh. I even know the usage and I never made that connection through all these years.

"I'm gonna go pop a squat."
"You don't know squat."

0 score for my brain I guess


@gravitywell: The graviton gun was such a cruel piece of wargear

Andykp wrote:


They were always in leagues, guilds was just the engineers.

Huh.

Well, talk about knocking me down with a feather

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Also not too impressed with the 1 model we've seen, looks too clean and Apple Computers/Tau. I'd have rather gotten something more Steam Punk.

I think they wanted to make sure Squats aren't just "kharadron but in space". It makes sense to go the opposite way in design philosophy which they seem to have done here.

Toofast wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Also not too impressed with the 1 model we've seen, looks too clean and Apple Computers/Tau. I'd have rather gotten something more Steam Punk.

I think they wanted to make sure Squats aren't just "kharadron but in space". It makes sense to go the opposite way in design philosophy which they seem to have done here.

Which is the problem, they made Squats for AOS better than the Votann they made for 40k.

If they had released Khardrons for 40k as Squats, I don't think anyone would've batted an eye.

You can tell that by *checks notes* a single revealed model?

Any chance you’ve got tomorrow night’s Euromillions lottery numbers?

First impressions are a thing...

gravitywell wrote:


Another story I remember was a massive game where someone was rolling an Armorcast Baneblade down the side of the board. I had the "Flank March" strategy card and brought a single tiny unit on to the side of the board... right in front of it. Its not hard to imagine how absolutely tiny those models looked in front of that super heavy tank. And, how unintimidated the opponent was by them... until he saw the effects of the obscure "Graviton Gun" wargear card he had never heard of...

... roll for hit location as normal but ignore armour penetration. Roll for damage on the appropriate vehicle location damage chart(s) adding +1 to the dice score...

The Baneblade got one shot and flipped over (almost crushing the Squats).

I'm reminded of the fluffy and fun Death or Glory (or was it called something else) rule. If I'm remembering things correctly, normally when your vehicle moved over the location of an enemy model, the opponent could simply move their unit out of the way and let your vehicle pass. Alternatively, they could opt for Death or Glory. The unit would make a single attack against your vehicle. If they failed to kill it, they would be crushed and removed from the board regardless of remaining wounds. If they succeeded, they just killed your unit in your movement phase. Like I said, it was wonderfully fluffy (and now it has me thinking of other old rules, like the old basilisk, guess the distance no scatter pie plate rule... before my time, but I've heard wonderful stories of shenanigans).

Just thinking the unthinkable...

How would the community react, if Gee-Dubs would do this in 365 days:

Sqatting the Squats for a second time because of reasons.

 Strg Alt wrote:
Just thinking the unthinkable...

How would the community react, if Gee-Dubs would do this in 365 days:

Sqatting the Squats for a second time because of reasons.

I think you may have just called their 2023 April Fool!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

DeadliestIdiot wrote:

gravitywell wrote:


Another story I remember was a massive game where someone was rolling an Armorcast Baneblade down the side of the board. I had the "Flank March" strategy card and brought a single tiny unit on to the side of the board... right in front of it. Its not hard to imagine how absolutely tiny those models looked in front of that super heavy tank. And, how unintimidated the opponent was by them... until he saw the effects of the obscure "Graviton Gun" wargear card he had never heard of...

... roll for hit location as normal but ignore armour penetration. Roll for damage on the appropriate vehicle location damage chart(s) adding +1 to the dice score...

The Baneblade got one shot and flipped over (almost crushing the Squats).

I'm reminded of the fluffy and fun Death or Glory (or was it called something else) rule. If I'm remembering things correctly, normally when your vehicle moved over the location of an enemy model, the opponent could simply move their unit out of the way and let your vehicle pass. Alternatively, they could opt for Death or Glory. The unit would make a single attack against your vehicle. If they failed to kill it, they would be crushed and removed from the board regardless of remaining wounds. If they succeeded, they just killed your unit in your movement phase. Like I said, it was wonderfully fluffy (and now it has me thinking of other old rules, like the old basilisk, guess the distance no scatter pie plate rule... before my time, but I've heard wonderful stories of shenanigans).

Guess range was ⁸stupid* and lead to bad games where I could snipe characters with cannon and my dyspraxic friends couldn’t. It was neither fu nor fairly and I'm glad it's gone.

The style of the new guy reminds me a bit of the Ape faction from AT-43. I agree with Kid_Kyotos comment above they have a quite clean/hi-tech look to them. I wonder if that was to differentiate them from both the Kharkadons in AoS and also the Forge Father miniatures from Mantic.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

gravitywell wrote:
Jervis leaves... 40K gets space dwarfs? Coincidence? Nah, just kidding... they've probably been playing with ideas for awhile.

Alan Merritt - a known opponent of including Genestealer Cults in the game - left the company, and all of a sudden Genestealer Cults came back. Seems plausible that Squats were waiting for Jervis to vanish.

Hopefully whoever's in charge right now leaves soon so we can get the Inquisition back.

I have a feeling it may be related to Alan Merritt - definitely not Jervis Johnson, I would have remembered the name (and the animosity didn't come across at all when he wrote that 'apology' letter - something he absolutely didn't have to do).

Another titbit I read the other day - apparently Genestealers very nearly got 'Squatted'. When they got moved into the being part of the Tyranid faction, that was apparently Andy Chambers suggesting that they move into that faction - otherwise the plan was that they were going to be removed entirely.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
You can tell that by *checks notes* a single revealed model?

Any chance you’ve got tomorrow night’s Euromillions lottery numbers?

Come on now.

Yeah maybe tomorrow GW will show of the Legions of Voltaire Gyrocoptor and I will respond with "Shut Up and Take my Money.gif".

But we know GW is very good at establishing a common look for their armies so with even just one model we can see they're going for the smooth high tech deal with the League of Voltage. If I had to guess I would say that dude is a new Tau auxiliary rather than a new take on space dwarves.

I guess with the Khyber Overlords and Adeptus Mech taking the steampunk niche a squat army based on the old Epic steampunk stuff is unlikely, but ah well. I guess if I really like that look I could just go play Sky Dwarves.

Catulle wrote:


Guess range was ⁸stupid* and lead to bad games where I could snipe characters with cannon and my dyspraxic friends couldn’t. It was neither fu nor fairly and I'm glad it's gone.

Oh, I don't disagree with that...the rule could be abused horribly from what I understand (like 'accidentally' guessing short and dropping a pie plate on the enemy squad that was locked in melee with a couple guardsmen). A friend of a friend was absurdly good at guessing range though and some funny stories came out of it...things like sniping squads on an adjacent table because lol basilisk range...you know...shenanigans

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:


But we know GW is very good at establishing a common look for their armies so with even just one model we can see they're going for the smooth high tech deal with the League of Voltage. If I had to guess I would say that dude is a new Tau auxiliary rather than a new take on space dwarves.

That's my guess too. Both the armour style and the marking on the shoulder pad hint heavily at that, and it would also be a way of working it into existing lore (without completely retconning the existence of those other 'dwarves in space') - most of the homeworlds were destroyed, flotillas of ships escaped the Nids and found the Tau, who seemed much more willing to work with them and protect them than the Imperium had been. The Tau then supported them, helped kit them out with equipment (hence the armour looking of similar style) in exchange for the League's impressive warp field technology (which the Tau have not had previously) or something like that?

Perhaps a sprue or two to use with Killteam or as a Tau ally in 40k? Massive marketing and social media buzz from very little outlay, they knew the internet would explode about it, and everyone (including me, who hasn't bought a new 40k kit in 10 years) will buy it regardless!

It would be hilarious if these models were the same height as firstborn marines.

Sumilidon wrote:
It would be hilarious if these models were the same height as firstborn marines.

The likelihood is that they will be very close to it (I think they'll be very close to Kharadron Overlords in height... which aren't that much shorter). But look at the new Horus Heresy "Beakie Marines"... they are almost as tall as the Primaris so I reckon that will be the way the firstborn will go, over time.

If the preview model (plus the silhouettes) is the "space-farer" side of things, I wonder what the ground troops will look like...?!? .

Cheers

The previewed model is the "basic trooper" per that article.

 Kanluwen wrote:
The previewed model is the "basic trooper" per that article.

OK... in that case, I wonder what the other troop unit options will be (for example, terminator types? it would make sense for a spacefaring army that boards space-hulks - like in the teaser video).

Personally, I'm cautiously optimistic.
I've not spent much on GW stuff in the last few years. These guys could be the thing that brings me back into the fold.

I like the look of the mini ( speaking as someone that had a large number of the RT era plastics squats) A higher tech more sci-fi looking squat race could be a great shift in the original look, give them Robots and advanced vehicles, a land train, maybe even a hover land train .
Could be a fun counter for the Admech or at the very least some fun models.

tneva82 wrote:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
they were certainly popular enough to get plastic when plastic tooling was crazy expensive and i'm not really convinced they'd have got that without a fair level of sales or a champion of some sort in the studio (Sculptor Bob Olley? he did a whole lot of them both for Citadel proper and his own Iron Claw miniatures sub brand)

i think the problem was none of the rules writers was terribly interested in them by the time the switch to 2nd edition came along, and that meant (in the days when the enthusiatic game designers ran things) meant no no codex or content

Plenty of still existing product lines sold less than squats. They weren't bottom seller by any imagination.

You've seen the figures to back up this statement or is this supposition?

 Inquisitor Kallus wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
they were certainly popular enough to get plastic when plastic tooling was crazy expensive and i'm not really convinced they'd have got that without a fair level of sales or a champion of some sort in the studio (Sculptor Bob Olley? he did a whole lot of them both for Citadel proper and his own Iron Claw miniatures sub brand)

i think the problem was none of the rules writers was terribly interested in them by the time the switch to 2nd edition came along, and that meant (in the days when the enthusiatic game designers ran things) meant no no codex or content

Plenty of still existing product lines sold less than squats. They weren't bottom seller by any imagination.

You've seen the figures to back up this statement or is this supposition?

There was a online post from Jervis Johnson from I think about 2004:

First of all, Squats were *not* dropped because they were not selling well. There were then, and are now, plenty of other figure ranges that sell in the sort of % quantaties that the Squats pulled down, especially when you look across all of the ranges produced by GW rather than just those for 40K.

Not exactly what tneva82 was saying... maybe there is some newer info.

My current thoughts are: don't know enough about it. I'm reasonably excited/ interested. I think a fresh/different image is the right call but I assume they aren't stupid enough to get rid of the dwarfiness entirely. The silhouette emage in the reveal had a pickaxe so that suggests something, as does the icon they are using. So I think a blend of this more "futuristic" design and suitable knotwork and beards will do fine. Even if it isn't, I see zero reason why I couldn't just buy some Kharadon Overlords from AoS and use those instead. That will make for some fun kitbashes.

For me, I think the prospect of new lore is my main interest. Time will tell I guess.

Perhaps, given the odd history of the Tau, the Squats had something to do with the Tau technology. There is an odd Necromunda, Squat, Tau trifecta that could be creeping its way through the lore.