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So, if you take it with Belakor then you keep all the normal knight bonuses, but if you take it with any other Chaos army, you get no detachment bonuses including strats, relics, etc.?

Imma need to buy some more chaos knoghts XD

 Virules wrote:
So, if you take it with Belakor then you keep all the normal knight bonuses, but if you take it with any other Chaos army, you get no detachment bonuses including strats, relics, etc.?

The Be'lakor and Corax crossover is specific to those two factions, kind of like the Metallica/Raven Knight of the Iron Cog. If you take a superheavy aux detachment for one knight and make them Corax, and have them alongside Be'lakor's faction then the Knight gets to be fully Corax even though it is in a superheavy aux detachment. The rule for Dreadblades (and presumably Freeblades on the Imperium side, my speculation only) is different in that it doesn't do anything for the Knight, but it allows the faction the Knight is allied with to act as if it weren't there for their pure army rules.

bmsattler wrote:

 Virules wrote:
So, if you take it with Belakor then you keep all the normal knight bonuses, but if you take it with any other Chaos army, you get no detachment bonuses including strats, relics, etc.?

The Be'lakor and Corax crossover is specific to those two factions, kind of like the Metallica/Raven Knight of the Iron Cog. If you take a superheavy aux detachment for one knight and make them Corax, and have them alongside Be'lakor's faction then the Knight gets to be fully Corax even though it is in a superheavy aux detachment. The rule for Dreadblades (and presumably Freeblades on the Imperium side, my speculation only) is different in that it doesn't do anything for the Knight, but it allows the faction the Knight is allied with to act as if it weren't there for their pure army rules.

Right. You are locked into an AOR and one Chaos Knight house with the Bel'akor Chaos knight. It's much less flexible than the freeblades version.

 Sasori wrote:

bmsattler wrote:

 Virules wrote:
So, if you take it with Belakor then you keep all the normal knight bonuses, but if you take it with any other Chaos army, you get no detachment bonuses including strats, relics, etc.?

The Be'lakor and Corax crossover is specific to those two factions, kind of like the Metallica/Raven Knight of the Iron Cog. If you take a superheavy aux detachment for one knight and make them Corax, and have them alongside Be'lakor's faction then the Knight gets to be fully Corax even though it is in a superheavy aux detachment. The rule for Dreadblades (and presumably Freeblades on the Imperium side, my speculation only) is different in that it doesn't do anything for the Knight, but it allows the faction the Knight is allied with to act as if it weren't there for their pure army rules.

Right. You are locked into an AOR and one Chaos Knight house with the Bel'akor Chaos knight. It's much less flexible than the freeblades version.

Is it? Because outside of Belakor, just doing the Dreadblade thing, you lose relics, strats, warlord traits, etc. You gain nothing except the Dreadblade traits (good and bad). With Belakor, you get access to all Chaos Knight strats and all relics/warlord traits/strats for that specific house.

 Virules wrote:

 Sasori wrote:

bmsattler wrote:

 Virules wrote:
So, if you take it with Belakor then you keep all the normal knight bonuses, but if you take it with any other Chaos army, you get no detachment bonuses including strats, relics, etc.?

The Be'lakor and Corax crossover is specific to those two factions, kind of like the Metallica/Raven Knight of the Iron Cog. If you take a superheavy aux detachment for one knight and make them Corax, and have them alongside Be'lakor's faction then the Knight gets to be fully Corax even though it is in a superheavy aux detachment. The rule for Dreadblades (and presumably Freeblades on the Imperium side, my speculation only) is different in that it doesn't do anything for the Knight, but it allows the faction the Knight is allied with to act as if it weren't there for their pure army rules.

Right. You are locked into an AOR and one Chaos Knight house with the Bel'akor Chaos knight. It's much less flexible than the freeblades version.

Is it? Because outside of Belakor, just doing the Dreadblade thing, you lose relics, strats, warlord traits, etc. You gain nothing except the Dreadblade traits (good and bad). With Belakor, you get access to all Chaos Knight strats and all relics/warlord traits/strats for that specific house.

Yes? It's an AOR, it's heavily restricted in your list building from the very start. compared to being able to add a knight to any build of DG, CSM and Tsons. You have much more flexibility to build around a knight in those armies than you do with Bel'akor, even if the knight itself has more options.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Rumor Update:

Thermal Spear: 30" Heavy 2, S9 AP-4 Dd6 (Dd6+2 in half range)
Thermal Cannon: 30" Heavy 2d3 S9 AP-4 Dd6+2 (Dd6+4 in half range)
RFBC: 72" Heavy 2d6 S8 AP-2 flat 3 damage
Helvrins: get an additional AP(!)
All knights lost 2" of movement, except for melee-centric knights
-1 damage is available in melee for a statagem, or access to a Fell Bond (custom household trait) that gives you -1D against S7 or less
There's a House Korvax RELIC that allows you to negate 1 failed saving throw a battle round

There is no -1 damage
There's no "x2 wounds don't count" thing
There is no built-in ++ in melee (edited)
[8:18 PM]

Not gonna lie, that's a disappointing set of rumors for me. Armigers look a lot better than the Questoris options. Losing movement will really hurt, and the Thermal Cannon and RFBC look like a pass for me. This is understanding that I'm not seeing stratagems or other modifiers that may make something good.

I dunno, the thermal cannon seems ok to me, underwhelming perhaps but one of those will avg 7.3 damage/turn before rerolls against most vehicles and monsters at max range, and 9 damage up close. A chaos knight with two of those suckers can remove most vehicles in a single round of shooting. Add a meltagun and a stormspear missile pod for a bit more dakka/killing power and you could potentially be wrecking two targets/turn - and thats befire strats and rerolls.

RFBC is a miss though, will avg 4.6 dmg/turn against T7 3+ sv targetstargets and 2+ vs T8 2+, and vs MEQ its only killing just a but less than 2 marines/turn.

bmsattler wrote:
Not gonna lie, that's a disappointing set of rumors for me. Armigers look a lot better than the Questoris options. Losing movement will really hurt, and the Thermal Cannon and RFBC look like a pass for me. This is understanding that I'm not seeing stratagems or other modifiers that may make something good.

The thermal cannon is useful now, and the battle cannon becoming flat 3 damage is amazing. But damage reduction being available only via stratagem and still not getting a real invulnerable save still sucks.

Here is the updated dump with the false rumors removed. Going to update the OP as well:

Chaos Knight Leaks

Army Trait
PfP Like Mechanic. Looks like you chose 1 of 3 categories, and the effect happens. They stack as the game moves on and they are all debuffs to enemies within 12'
All Knights lost -2' of movement, with the exception of the Melee Knights (Rampager)
Dominus Class Knights have a 2+ Save
NO -1 Damage
5++ Only in shooting, NO built in Melee Invuln.

House Traits
Fell Bond (Custom Trait) Ramshackle.

Warlord Traits
Warlord can get a second trait


Units/Wargear
Volkite does 3 MWs on 6's
Melee Knights retain 2+ WS
Thunderstrike Gaunt is flat 8D and also has a sweep attack at 3 Damage No more Minus to Hit. Sweeps are X2 Attacks.
Wardogs get reroll 1's in melee near a Melee Knight
Havocs are 48' S5 no LOS on Armigers
Wardog Gatling 12 shots Strength 6 AP -1 1D
Thermal Spear: 30" Heavy 2, S9 AP-4 Dd6 (Dd6+2 in half range)
Thermal Cannon: 30" Heavy 2d3 S9 AP-4 Dd6+2 (Dd6+4 in half range)
Volcano Lance D3 Shots, D6+8 Damage
RFBC: 72" Heavy 2d6 S8 AP-2 flat 3 damage
Helvrins: get an additional AP(!)
Armigers are now all distinct Datasheets.


Upgrades - "Favored of the Gods" Paid points upgrades that is updated based on wounds delivered.
Every Knight can have up to one.
Can get a full 4++ (Useable in melee as well)



Chaos Knight Psychic Tree
WC 6 No Overwatch + Weird Smite
WC6 D3 Mortals, and nearest to target takes 1 MW. 11+ D3 on both
WC6 5+++, Higher cast gives Wardogs within 6' a 6+++
WC6 All Enemies within 12' take a dread test. If failed, take 1 MW.
2 More that were not Caught

Infernal Chart
1 MW for random, D3 for Choice
- +3'
-+1 Wound on a Weapon
- Transhuman

Stratagems:
Heirlooms/Exalted Court down to 1/2 cp.
Rotate now a flat 2CP for all knights
2CP Roll a D6 for every model you kill in the fight phase, for ever 4+ you gain a Wound back to a Max of 8
-1 Damage in Melee

Relics:
HELM OF the Dogs - Wardog only relic +1 attack and all dogs 6' get reroll wound rolls of 1.
House Korvax Relic - Allows you to negate 1 saving throw a battle round.

Chaos Marks
Mark of Nurgle - Machine Spirit Resurgence

 Sasori wrote:
Rotate now a flat 2CP for all knights

Oh, goody... For a moment there I thought Chaos Knights might actually be competitive. I mean, seriously. In an environment that measures effectiveness by how quickly one can kill a Knight, they're going to nerf the only thing that keeps Knights alive?

Thanks for the news Sasori !

Yes, your efforts are highly appreciated!

No more penalty for the Thunderstrike Gauntlet is welcome.

It looks like they saw what relics are popular for the Dominus Knights and just added them into the statlines! (Cawl's Wrath and Ion Bulwark).

Armigers are looking very strong. Access to indirect fire through the Havoc Launcher, reliable number of shots for the Thermal Spear, Helverin Autocannon at AP-2, 12 shot mini-gatling cannon at Str 6, AP-2, and the relic that lets them boost other War Dogs to reroll 1's in combat. I'm going to be building more War Dog arms for a bit to catch up with the new options.

Do you know if the Mark of Nurgle will give the effect of Machine Spirit Resurgent, or access to spend the stratagem on it?

2CP rotate Ion Shields hurts, but we can upgrade a Knight to have it permanently in both shooting and melee, which sounds like a good deal to me. I'm assuming these upgrades have a '1 per army' limit like most of the codexes.

Is Toughness 9 still on the table? I had hoped to see it for Questoris Knights, now I'll settle for Dominus.

Volcano Lance is new. D6+8 Damage will pick up a lot of the new Tyranid monsters very quickly, if we can get past the 4++ they can have with a lower number of shots (d3 for the Volcano).

The Ramshackle household trait is also sounding interesting. We'll have to see what we're giving up to take it.

Do we know the new stats on the Avenger Gatling Canon or the Armiger Autocanons yet?

I haven't seen anything on the Avenger yet. The Armiger Autocannon seems to be the same, with an extra point of AP. Honestly, that sounds amazing to me.

Okay. These Chaos Knights look absolutely great.

Here are some points costs:

Points:
Castellan 15 points cheaper
Valiant - Same as it is now
Karnivore 140 Points
Warglaives 145
Helverin 155
One of the other New Wardogs will be 155 (Guessing Double shooting loadout)

Quite a discount on the Helverins and the Warglaives.

Helverin's were already 155, and Warglaives went up 10 points from 135.

155 is a good price for the double-gun War Dog though, if that is in fact what it will cost that will be my go-to.

bmsattler wrote:
Helverin's were already 155, and Warglaives went up 10 points from 135.

155 is a good price for the double-gun War Dog though, if that is in fact what it will cost that will be my go-to.

Yeah, I am pretty sure CK is going ot be the Wardog Spam Army at this point.

Helverins with the extra AP though are going to be very good I think.

Yep wardog spam with one Tyrant I think

Battlecannons going to flat 3 will be interesting for IG.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sasori wrote:

bmsattler wrote:
Helverin's were already 155, and Warglaives went up 10 points from 135.

155 is a good price for the double-gun War Dog though, if that is in fact what it will cost that will be my go-to.

Yeah, I am pretty sure CK is going ot be the Wardog Spam Army at this point.

Helverins with the extra AP though are going to be very good I think.

I'm happy. I used to run three helverins. Now I can slide them back in and they'll be great for picking up Voidweavers and Bananas with a good damage profile and purity break.

I wonder if a unit of war dogs can be a dreadblade unit... if so, definitely gonna have to think about taking some with my night lords.

 cole1114 wrote:
I wonder if a unit of war dogs can be a dreadblade unit... if so, definitely gonna have to think about taking some with my night lords.

The Spoiler says Unit, instead of model. I'm hoping so, as that'd be a great fill in on my Tsons.

 cole1114 wrote:
I wonder if a unit of war dogs can be a dreadblade unit... if so, definitely gonna have to think about taking some with my night lords.

They currently can, so I'm hopeful!

ah wow, i had misread that off the bat and assumed Wardogs were a no-go, but if thats the case yeah a unit of Doggos for my TSons might be the way firward instead of a big chungus knight

You can make everything a Dreadknight, but at least as of the old codex only one Dreadknight could get pacts and damnations. Admittedly this doesn't matter as much for War Dogs, and it looks like they are doing a few War Dog specific relics, but they will still be a little limited.

Of course, three Helverin's are a very good base of fire regardless of their support.

Could you take the War-Dogs with Codex Daemons? I'd love to work on a unit of these with Khornate upgrades.

Mr.Pickels wrote:
Could you take the War-Dogs with Codex Daemons? I'd love to work on a unit of these with Khornate upgrades.

Right now? Yes-Daemons have no army wide Purity bonus, so so long as you have them in separate detachments, you're all good.

What is the point of the melee Knight that has the Chainsword and the Gauntlet?
Seems kinda redundant.