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Treating this as a general Knights thread, since there's no Loyalist version...

This is feeling a bit disappointing from the Loyalist side of things.

Not necessarily because Chaos Knights got new things, but rather because it seems like they're getting to keep the old setup they had which was already fairly flexible(twin Avenger Despoilers, mixing Warglaives and Helverins) and get new things as well.

Hopefully I'm proven wrong or something is done to really delineate the 'locked' variants a bit more on that Loyalist side of things.

 Eldarain wrote:
Tentacle wardog confirmed as a staffers old kitbash. Says they use his in the backgrounds as the scheme is close to the official big kinnigits.

That's too bad. Would have thought that'd be an excellent addition.

So far it seems that each Codex has received an accompanying new kit, so maybe there's something new for Imperial Knights.

Most likely they wanted all things Chaos and Heresy at Adepticon and left the Imperial Knights for another reveal, but showed the Imperial Knight codex to say "we haven't forgotten you" sort of thing.

SamusDrake wrote:
So far it seems that each Codex has received an accompanying new kit, so maybe there's something new for Imperial Knights.

Apparently not.

No new models for imperial Two new models for chaos

A rule about how heroic your army is doing in four different categories and as you become more heroic the more abilities you gain

A squire mechanic where your big knights can tell a little knight to just be better

Imp knights are only getting a codex (but what a book)

The imperial knights have GREAT synergy between each other

Imperial teaching, armigers within range gain an additional hit for every 6 to hit

The preceptor becomes a chaplain for the imperial side

Chaos psychic power 5+fnp for caster If cast on a high number surrounding wardogs gain 6+fnp

Keep in mind that most other codexes got small character releases, which isn't likely for IK. They might just have to settle for new rules and perhaps some kind of discounted boxed set.

Imperial Knights already have more datasheets than say Harlequins and possibly Grey Knights. What Knights lack is the ability to play the secondary game and durability. Those are easily fixed with better rules, and I'm pretty excited about what I've seen so far!

 xttz wrote:

Apparently not.

Keep in mind that most other codexes got small character releases, which isn't likely for IK. They might just have to settle for new rules and perhaps some kind of discounted boxed set.

Well, you see, there is the small matter of Duncan...I just don't know how he'll cope.

Interesting note from the IG rumor thread is that russet and bane blades will be going up to T9. Will knights do the same?

I hope that the new Chaos Knights have access to mark god-specific rules, like relics and stratagems. I was thinking of converting some Nurgle Knights, but I don't want to go though all the effort just so the only special thing I can do is danger squirts.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
Interesting note from the IG rumor thread is that russet and bane blades will be going up to T9. Will knights do the same?

Baneblade and the new tank are toughness 9. Leman Russ still toughness 8.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
Interesting note from the IG rumor thread is that russet and bane blades will be going up to T9. Will knights do the same?

I certainly hope so. 2+ and a real invulnerable save would be nice, too. I mean, considering the meta seems to be based on the ability to blow Knights off the board in one go...

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
I hope that the new Chaos Knights have access to mark god-specific rules, like relics and stratagems. I was thinking of converting some Nurgle Knights, but I don't want to go though all the effort just so the only special thing I can do is danger squirts.

The previous book had a specific relic for each god. Khorne's turned off invuls(for both sides) in combat once per game, Tzeentch made the Knight a Psyker with Smite, Nurgle rebounded MW on a 4+ if you passed saves in melee, Slaanesh added 1 to Advance and Charge rolls as well as ASF.

bmsattler wrote:
Imperial Knights already have more datasheets than say Harlequins and possibly Grey Knights. What Knights lack is the ability to play the secondary game and durability. Those are easily fixed with better rules, and I'm pretty excited about what I've seen so far!

TBF a lot of those datasheets are just artificially splitting weapon options on what is really the same unit.

IMO, make each chassis it's own (full page) dataslate with all of the options interchangeable. For that matter, split the equipment into intuitive left-arm/right-arm categories instead of the weird listing they have now. Leave the differentiation of units for the little guys.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Treating this as a general Knights thread, since there's no Loyalist version...

This is feeling a bit disappointing from the Loyalist side of things.

Not necessarily because Chaos Knights got new things, but rather because it seems like they're getting to keep the old setup they had which was already fairly flexible(twin Avenger Despoilers, mixing Warglaives and Helverins) and get new things as well.

Hopefully I'm proven wrong or something is done to really delineate the 'locked' variants a bit more on that Loyalist side of things.

'

Ah, this... it smells a bit nostalgic doesn't it?

A bit like... "Well the Space Marines got a new vehicle, but what about Chaos Marines? Where's our spikey version?"

I think you'll be alright. It took time for Space Marines and Chaos Marines to properly diverge and for GW to not just give out spikey versions of everything that Space Marines got. It will take some time for the Imperial Knights and Chaos Knights as well. This is part of the process, where Chaos Knights will get some stuff here, and then later Imperial Knights will get some new things and Chaos Knights will be like "ok but where's our spikey version?" and so on and so forth.

I'm sure you'll get some neat relics and warlord traits that will help make up the difference. Also remember that you've got the Knight Dominus chassis that Chaos doesn't really have a spikey version of, and I'm sure in the time it takes GW to produce that, Imperial Knights will get some new plastic knight to help fill in other gaps.

Chaos Knights have the Tyrant, which is the Dominus chassis.

drbored wrote:

Ah, this... it smells a bit nostalgic doesn't it?

A bit like... "Well the Space Marines got a new vehicle, but what about Chaos Marines? Where's our spikey version?"

I think you'll be alright. It took time for Space Marines and Chaos Marines to properly diverge and for GW to not just give out spikey versions of everything that Space Marines got. It will take some time for the Imperial Knights and Chaos Knights as well. This is part of the process, where Chaos Knights will get some stuff here, and then later Imperial Knights will get some new things and Chaos Knights will be like "ok but where's our spikey version?" and so on and so forth.

I'm sure you'll get some neat relics and warlord traits that will help make up the difference. Also remember that you've got the Knight Dominus chassis that Chaos doesn't really have a spikey version of, and I'm sure in the time it takes GW to produce that, Imperial Knights will get some new plastic knight to help fill in other gaps.

Bluntly, the issue is that there is a weird design philosophy in play.

Chaos gets the Despoiler--which is a "+1" version of the standard Questoris for the Loyalists. I call it the "+1" version as it lets you go a bit more specialized for the shooty Knights, by letting you double up the arm guns.
Loyalists on the other end get the "named" versions...which are locked profiles, essentially.

I'm totally okay to admit that I'll come off as sour grapes here. It's just weird to me that they didn't come up with spiky named variants that were a 1:1 match for the Loyalist ones.

The new version for Chaos seems to be addressing the differences more than you think though. Remember that the Loyalist Questoris version started off as building two versions, then bumped up to 4 or 5, and then lastly they added a named version(Canis Rex) and the Armiger Babysitter in the Preceptor.

drbored wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Treating this as a general Knights thread, since there's no Loyalist version...

This is feeling a bit disappointing from the Loyalist side of things.

Not necessarily because Chaos Knights got new things, but rather because it seems like they're getting to keep the old setup they had which was already fairly flexible(twin Avenger Despoilers, mixing Warglaives and Helverins) and get new things as well.

Hopefully I'm proven wrong or something is done to really delineate the 'locked' variants a bit more on that Loyalist side of things.

'

Ah, this... it smells a bit nostalgic doesn't it?

A bit like... "Well the Space Marines got a new vehicle, but what about Chaos Marines? Where's our spikey version?"

I think you'll be alright. It took time for Space Marines and Chaos Marines to properly diverge and for GW to not just give out spikey versions of everything that Space Marines got. It will take some time for the Imperial Knights and Chaos Knights as well. This is part of the process, where Chaos Knights will get some stuff here, and then later Imperial Knights will get some new things and Chaos Knights will be like "ok but where's our spikey version?" and so on and so forth.

I'm sure you'll get some neat relics and warlord traits that will help make up the difference. Also remember that you've got the Knight Dominus chassis that Chaos doesn't really have a spikey version of, and I'm sure in the time it takes GW to produce that, Imperial Knights will get some new plastic knight to help fill in other gaps.

Just like Marines, the Imperial Knights get better rules - last I checked there was a massive disparity in win rates between Imperial Knights and Chaos Knights.

I just wish Imperial Knights could have two of the Gatling guns. It just looks cool.

I'm a bit suprised we haven't gotten more leaks at this point. I'm betting the special box is going to go up for preview week here in 1-2 weeks.

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:

drbored wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Treating this as a general Knights thread, since there's no Loyalist version...

This is feeling a bit disappointing from the Loyalist side of things.

Not necessarily because Chaos Knights got new things, but rather because it seems like they're getting to keep the old setup they had which was already fairly flexible(twin Avenger Despoilers, mixing Warglaives and Helverins) and get new things as well.

Hopefully I'm proven wrong or something is done to really delineate the 'locked' variants a bit more on that Loyalist side of things.

'

Ah, this... it smells a bit nostalgic doesn't it?

A bit like... "Well the Space Marines got a new vehicle, but what about Chaos Marines? Where's our spikey version?"

I think you'll be alright. It took time for Space Marines and Chaos Marines to properly diverge and for GW to not just give out spikey versions of everything that Space Marines got. It will take some time for the Imperial Knights and Chaos Knights as well. This is part of the process, where Chaos Knights will get some stuff here, and then later Imperial Knights will get some new things and Chaos Knights will be like "ok but where's our spikey version?" and so on and so forth.

I'm sure you'll get some neat relics and warlord traits that will help make up the difference. Also remember that you've got the Knight Dominus chassis that Chaos doesn't really have a spikey version of, and I'm sure in the time it takes GW to produce that, Imperial Knights will get some new plastic knight to help fill in other gaps.

Just like Marines, the Imperial Knights get better rules - last I checked there was a massive disparity in win rates between Imperial Knights and Chaos Knights.

Yeah, I'll be more worried about the extra profiles Chaos gets if Chaos actually turns out to be better for one edition.

drbored wrote:

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:

drbored wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Treating this as a general Knights thread, since there's no Loyalist version...

This is feeling a bit disappointing from the Loyalist side of things.

Not necessarily because Chaos Knights got new things, but rather because it seems like they're getting to keep the old setup they had which was already fairly flexible(twin Avenger Despoilers, mixing Warglaives and Helverins) and get new things as well.

Hopefully I'm proven wrong or something is done to really delineate the 'locked' variants a bit more on that Loyalist side of things.

'

Ah, this... it smells a bit nostalgic doesn't it?

A bit like... "Well the Space Marines got a new vehicle, but what about Chaos Marines? Where's our spikey version?"

I think you'll be alright. It took time for Space Marines and Chaos Marines to properly diverge and for GW to not just give out spikey versions of everything that Space Marines got. It will take some time for the Imperial Knights and Chaos Knights as well. This is part of the process, where Chaos Knights will get some stuff here, and then later Imperial Knights will get some new things and Chaos Knights will be like "ok but where's our spikey version?" and so on and so forth.

I'm sure you'll get some neat relics and warlord traits that will help make up the difference. Also remember that you've got the Knight Dominus chassis that Chaos doesn't really have a spikey version of, and I'm sure in the time it takes GW to produce that, Imperial Knights will get some new plastic knight to help fill in other gaps.

Just like Marines, the Imperial Knights get better rules - last I checked there was a massive disparity in win rates between Imperial Knights and Chaos Knights.

Yeah, I'll be more worried about the extra profiles Chaos gets if Chaos actually turns out to be better for one edition.

I mean, they're allowed to be better within the confines of appearing balanced. If chaos knights came out at 55% WR and imperial at 48% they're both classed as acceptably balanced.

As others have said, imperial knights will get more stuff at some point, likely next edition. Chaos knights have mostly existed as a rip off of imperial knights where you have to convert every model because they had nothing for a fair while. Let them have 10 minutes in the sun.

Dudeface wrote:

drbored wrote:

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:

drbored wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Treating this as a general Knights thread, since there's no Loyalist version...

This is feeling a bit disappointing from the Loyalist side of things.

Not necessarily because Chaos Knights got new things, but rather because it seems like they're getting to keep the old setup they had which was already fairly flexible(twin Avenger Despoilers, mixing Warglaives and Helverins) and get new things as well.

Hopefully I'm proven wrong or something is done to really delineate the 'locked' variants a bit more on that Loyalist side of things.

'

Ah, this... it smells a bit nostalgic doesn't it?

A bit like... "Well the Space Marines got a new vehicle, but what about Chaos Marines? Where's our spikey version?"

I think you'll be alright. It took time for Space Marines and Chaos Marines to properly diverge and for GW to not just give out spikey versions of everything that Space Marines got. It will take some time for the Imperial Knights and Chaos Knights as well. This is part of the process, where Chaos Knights will get some stuff here, and then later Imperial Knights will get some new things and Chaos Knights will be like "ok but where's our spikey version?" and so on and so forth.

I'm sure you'll get some neat relics and warlord traits that will help make up the difference. Also remember that you've got the Knight Dominus chassis that Chaos doesn't really have a spikey version of, and I'm sure in the time it takes GW to produce that, Imperial Knights will get some new plastic knight to help fill in other gaps.

Just like Marines, the Imperial Knights get better rules - last I checked there was a massive disparity in win rates between Imperial Knights and Chaos Knights.

Yeah, I'll be more worried about the extra profiles Chaos gets if Chaos actually turns out to be better for one edition.

I mean, they're allowed to be better within the confines of appearing balanced. If chaos knights came out at 55% WR and imperial at 48% they're both classed as acceptably balanced.

As others have said, imperial knights will get more stuff at some point, likely next edition. Chaos knights have mostly existed as a rip off of imperial knights where you have to convert every model because they had nothing for a fair while. Let them have 10 minutes in the sun.

All I'm asking for is to show up at a tourney with Chaos Knights and actually have a shot at winning a game or two.

I went 3-3 at Cherokee open with Chaos Knights. The only game that I had that wasn't close was vs Tau, and I think I messed up my deployment that game. 3x Custodes games and I won 1 and lost 2, but only by 5-10 points.

Moriax spam with one big knight has been successful with infernal and pumping up damage/strength.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/04/07/who-wears-it-better-imperial-and-chaos-knights-get-upgraded-weapons/

Some updated rules

 xttz wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/04/07/who-wears-it-better-imperial-and-chaos-knights-get-upgraded-weapons/

Some updated rules

Wow...those are all super duper tame upgrades. Good upgrades, but nothing scary.

For me, its the consistency upgrade more than anything that is welcome. No more D6 damage where I roll a 1.

I'm wondering what they are going to do with Stomps now that the melee weapons are getting sweep profiles. My guess is that they will become much less universally good to encourage taking the melee option, which honestly makes sense.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 xttz wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/04/07/who-wears-it-better-imperial-and-chaos-knights-get-upgraded-weapons/

Some updated rules

Wow...those are all super duper tame upgrades. Good upgrades, but nothing scary.

That's good. I don't think it would take that much to push Knights over the edge. They need some light touches on the weapons and statlines and then some updated traits/stratagems/anti-soup rules. and they'll probably be very good.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 xttz wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/04/07/who-wears-it-better-imperial-and-chaos-knights-get-upgraded-weapons/

Some updated rules

Wow...those are all super duper tame upgrades. Good upgrades, but nothing scary.

Well, "tame" upgrades are better than no upgrades at all. Notice the profile for the Desecrator's Laser Destructor? Look familiar? At least until you get to the damage and AP?

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Well, "tame" upgrades are better than no upgrades at all. Notice the profile for the Desecrator's Laser Destructor? Look familiar? At least until you get to the damage and AP?

I do imagine we'll see an ignore invulnerables relic for that or something similar.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Well, "tame" upgrades are better than no upgrades at all. Notice the profile for the Desecrator's Laser Destructor? Look familiar? At least until you get to the damage and AP?

I do imagine we'll see an ignore invulnerables relic for that or something similar.

Wasn't talking about that. Think of other LoWs with older 9th edition rules, that didn't get any upgrades, "tame" or otherwise. Keep trying, you'll get it.