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MorglumNecksnapper wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
The tower doesn't fit. And that's not modularity. Putting a tree on a hill doesn't make the hill modular. Or the tree.

If we agree that modularity is various components that can fit together to build a new working system, then slotting the dish into the building is modular building.

I totally agree if someone doesn't find it very modular, but stating that's it's not modular at all is false. Like I stated, the kits are even compatible with earlier released kits, even with the Ryza ruins.

The parts are made to work together with at least three different kits, you can't call that not modular.

But we don't? Also, that's not various components that can fit together. That's various completed buildings that can be stacked.

 Myrthe wrote:
Designed modularity is different from kit convertability.


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 Orlanth wrote:
GW has most of its terrain manufactured in China, do as single production run and then retire the mold. These production runs are large, but when they end they end.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
How good is Dungeons and Lasers as a substitute for the old Cities o Death terrain?

Use Rampart instead.

Get it here:
https://gamefound.com/projects/archon-studio/rampart-third-edition

Kickstarter page:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/archonstudio/rampart

In short, very good, particularly the cathedral. Though you need to do your own platforms and roofing, the platform systems included do not work properly except as isolated elements, and some look sub par.

The factory has an arc deco rather than gothic look to it, and the windows and doorways are plain weird. Archon are now doing a concrete wall moderns ruin as a fourth set which looks very promising.

Dungeons and Lasers itself could be used, but is better used for its intended purpose: dungeons, whether industrial or medieval fantasy.

To add to the above, the scale is thrown off because the doors are short. YMMV but it drove me up the wall ! I covered the smaller, molded closed ones with skulls to read as a relief panel and not a door.
Oh, and Archon never produced the actual door for the larger openings (as they showed in the Kickstarter).

Archon has had numerous and varied problems with doors, I do not consider this a deal breaker, especially with the Rampart kits. You shouldn't be messing with doors in a 40K game. Glue them open or shut and carry on.

Off topic a bit: Dungeons and Lasers extra doors do work very nicely though for RPG, and fit generic 28mm miniatures including most heroics, though you should limit scale creep minis 30mm heroic such as GW and Reaper.
I do recommend D&L but you have to be patient with it and look at what you are buying carefully, many kits and add ons are interrelated and less valuable if you do not purchase the correct number of add ons for the correct set you want to improve.. You can easily paint yourself into a corner if you get the wrong match of items


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 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
A single Lego piece isn't modular either.

What a bizarre (and not even slightly correct) comparison.

They're not modular. Period. I really don't know why you're trying to argue this at all.

This goes together only one way.
This goes together only one way.
This goes together only one way.

That is GW's problem, and GW's loss, all three of the above pieces are nice, but I am only tempted to buy one each. Mechanicus terrain and IG Bastions are expandable and thus it makes sense to buy more.

MorglumNecksnapper wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
The tower doesn't fit. And that's not modularity. Putting a tree on a hill doesn't make the hill modular. Or the tree.

If we agree that modularity is various components that can fit together to build a new working system, then slotting the dish into the building is modular building.
I totally agree if someone doesn't find it very modular, but stating that's it's not modular at all is false. Like I stated, the kits are even compatible with earlier released kits, even with the Ryza ruins.
The parts are made to work together with at least three different kits, you can't call that not modular.

This is not modularity of terrain kits, this is being ability to combine terrain kits

saying you can put 1 single piece of plastic next to another single piece without needing to cut something does not make those pieces modular, it just means you can combine different pieces
and in the case of the later GW kits, you get single pieces out of the parts in the box that is always the same single piece which can be combined with other pieces, with the bad thing that they don't sell the tubes any more that you would need to combine those to larger terrain pieces

that we should be glad that we are able to combine pieces of GW terrain without needing a knife and green stuff says a lot already, and the price is the final nail

 Albertorius wrote:

MorglumNecksnapper wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
The tower doesn't fit. And that's not modularity. Putting a tree on a hill doesn't make the hill modular. Or the tree.

If we agree that modularity is various components that can fit together to build a new working system, then slotting the dish into the building is modular building.

I totally agree if someone doesn't find it very modular, but stating that's it's not modular at all is false. Like I stated, the kits are even compatible with earlier released kits, even with the Ryza ruins.

The parts are made to work together with at least three different kits, you can't call that not modular.

But we don't? Also, that's not various components that can fit together. That's various completed buildings that can be stacked.

Hey, if that's not what you think modularity means, then you're free to your own opinion, strange as I may find it.

If you also think that three different kits with pieces of wall (intact walls, ruined walls, loose sections, different lengths etc.) with several slotting together is not modular, then I don't think I can convice you that these sets are modular, so not gonna try

I'm gonna enjoy combining my sets, many options.

Added later: I opened up my box and I agree with your stacking, not modular remark. I was wrong thinking either or both (vox/shrine) fitted into the landing pad. It clearly does not, it's simply stacking like you said. You made me less happy with my kit .

Well, sorry about that ^_^

So if these pieces came in a box set, THEN they would be modular?


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MorglumNecksnapper wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
The tower doesn't fit. And that's not modularity. Putting a tree on a hill doesn't make the hill modular. Or the tree.

If we agree that modularity is various components that can fit together to build a new working system, then slotting the dish into the building is modular building.

I totally agree if someone doesn't find it very modular, but stating that's it's not modular at all is false. Like I stated, the kits are even compatible with earlier released kits, even with the Ryza ruins.

The parts are made to work together with at least three different kits, you can't call that not modular.

They have links for the pipe terrain too, and the barricades are obviously modular straight out of the box. It is like I was saying before; looking at a single lego brick it is not modulat. Zoom out and view the whole picture and it very much is.

These kits do not make a whole battlefield on their own; it takes multiple kits. They are very specifically pieces a whole. I'm with you in not really understanding the artificially cropped viewpoint some are expressing.

if those pieces were not mono-pose one way to build, than they would be modular

you are asking here if scale model truck set that is glued together can be made into a sports car model because there is a trailer hitch

 kodos wrote:
if those pieces were not mono-pose one way to build, than they would be modular

you are asking here if scale model truck set that is glued together can be made into a sports car model because there is a trailer hitch

There is only one way to build a single lego brick. It is mono pose and non-modular.

I don't know if you just try to troll here don't understand the difference between pieces of a model kit and the actual build model


yes a brick is a single non modular piece, as is the single plastic piece in a sprue
with the difference that I can stick 100 bricks together the way I want, while the single pieces from the sprue can be build on 1 way and 1 way only

but it is fine, if GW marketing told you that those are modular terrain kits and you have that they must be right and everyone else does not know what "modular" mean
no problem, every company needs their white knights

 kodos wrote:
I don't know if you just try to troll here don't understand the difference between pieces of a model kit and the actual build model


yes a brick is a single non modular piece, as is the single plastic piece in a sprue
with the difference that I can stick 100 bricks together the way I want, while the single pieces from the sprue can be build on 1 way and 1 way only

but it is fine, if GW marketing told you that those are modular terrain kits and you have that they must be right and everyone else does not know what "modular" mean
no problem, every company needs their white knights

Nothing to do with defending or opposing GW, simply that one terrain box is only a piece of a table's worth of terrain needed to play. You can stick them together anyway you want and they are specifically designed to link up that way, or have interchangeability between kits.

Are YOU arguing that means nothing? Because suggesting that a lack of compatibility between kits as no downside is a more significant defense of GW than anything I said.

ok, so you suggest that the lowest possible standard of any terrain kit that is part of a series, should now be praised as a big advantage we happily be the higher price for
that is the most bs argument I read in a long while, defending on overpriced piece of plastic

Yep. Setting things up next to each other means nothing.

If the kits made super bunkers, outhouses, landing control stations, etc, etc rather than just bunkerx2, antenna and landing pad, that would be modular. Putting walls in a line is... not.

I like the kit, but it isn't modular at all.

That was a thrilling 3-page debate about the nuances of the word modular. Can we go back to talking about the actual topic now?

 kodos wrote:
ok, so you suggest that the lowest possible standard of any terrain kit that is part of a series, should now be praised as a big advantage we happily be the higher price for
that is the most bs argument I read in a long while, defending on overpriced piece of plastic

Continuation of crafting falsehoods in lieu of addressing the point does you little credit.


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Toofast wrote:
That was a thrilling 3-page debate about the nuances of the word modular. Can we go back to talking about the actual topic now?

Y'know I tried but they were reeeeeeallly insistent on not dropping it.


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Voss wrote:
Yep. Setting things up next to each other means nothing.

If the kits made super bunkers, outhouses, landing control stations, etc, etc rather than just bunkerx2, antenna and landing pad, that would be modular. Putting walls in a line is... not.

I like the kit, but it isn't modular at all.

You realize you can combine multiple bunkers...? EDIT: My mistake, I was thinking of the landing pad as a type of bunker when it is not labelled as such. At any rate it can combine with the hab-bunker, which itself can mix&match with the ruined version.

I find the price/height&area a big issue. Kits are lovely but a marine being able to peek over is a bit of a difficulty. Tactical rocks (i.e. rocks on bases to raise minis) actually pay off here (or a hindrance depending on point of view). Less keen on something that looks precisely marine height.

I

Today I learned that my house is modular because other houses can be built near it in a variety of layouts.

The Lego comparison makes zero sense.

One block of Lego is akin to one piece of a plastic kit. The difference is that the Lego has a universal connector points (top and bottom) that allow them to join with a variety of other pieces that all have the same two types of connection points.

The pieces on the landing pad or antenna sprues do not have universal connectors, and do not go together in any different ways other than the specific places they are designed to go in. They are not modular in the slightest.

Putting something next to something else doesn't make those two things "modular". Putting something on top of something else does not make those two things modular.

I've arrived back where I was two pages ago; your loss. People often create entirely artificial restraints that serve no meaninful purpose other than to reduce their own enjoyment even outside the confines of Warhammer, let alone within. At some point one can only shrug and move on, it is not my fun that's being sabotaged.

Loss of what? But there's nothing artificial about what we're saying.

They are not modular any more than the sky is not green. It's not a matter of interpretation or even use. The kits go together one way and one way only. They cannot be combined, mixed, matched, or reconfigured. They are not like the Sector Imperialis/Mechanicus/Mortalis stuff.

They are set models that build one and one thing only. Unlike Lego bricks, which are specifically designed to be used in virtually unlimited ways

Yes, I could cut them apart and convert them into something else, but that's not modularity.

How do you not get this?

I'm looking at the Imperial Bunker, and think it looks pretty cool (I very rarely look at GW terrains and don't really keep up with what they produce).

It's also relatively cheap at 55$ CAD (even if it was cheaper before, as anything else). I don't have much Imperial forces myself (only Custodes, and they don't need no bunker ), but I think it could be cool to have to just plonk down on the table for some flavor. I could be tempted.

The bunker's nice, but not exactly huge.

Ultimately the Wall of Martyrs stuff was really good when it was sold in a big bundle:

I figured it was small, which would be perfect actually! If it can hold a squad of 10 guardsmen on top, and potentially another one inside (even if "pretending" they are in as I doubt it open up for real), that would be the best!

It'd be nice if they still made this thing:

GW would make so much money if they did a MTO: scenery kits

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
It'd be nice if they still made this thing:

Spoiler:

Wow that's even better! GW sceneries have always been so fickles, even back in Fantasy days.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
GW would make so much money if they did a MTO: scenery kits

Just from me, alone. Then factor in everyone else.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
GW would make so much money if they did a MTO: scenery kits

Just from me, alone. Then factor in everyone else.

Dam straight.


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 H.B.M.C. wrote:
The bunker's nice, but not exactly huge.

Ultimately the Wall of Martyrs stuff was really good when it was sold in a big bundle:

I always see it as a missed opportunity, because I feel like a lot of people were put off by the mounds of dead Cadians which both added many more details to paint and locked in a certain aspect of the theme.

I was definitely put off by the piles of cadians, for sure

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I always see it as a missed opportunity, because I feel like a lot of people were put off by the mounds of dead Cadians which both added many more details to paint and locked in a certain aspect of the theme.

Plus, well, as an IG player painting up 100s of dead guard was not a selling point for me.

I get the idea, but it just looked like a pain in the ass where the ultimate return is to celebrate how much my army sucks.

I thought about getting it and covering them with clay or putty, but then I realized it would be easier to kit bash something then.

And then never did it

The best GW scenery is now for LoTR. I miss little things like the 'Arcane ruins' that were simple ruined temples that could be made into lots of different things, you could turn them into temples for anything and serve as just decoration or objectives. Something of a successor, the Sigmarite temple is now also gone OOP but maybe is just awaiting a price increase) And the amazing Dominion of Sigmar: The Enduring Stormvault is now also OOP.

Fantasy is being really hit hard scenery-wise lots of good terrain no longer for sale and for far longer. The latest announced terrain isn't really that great so it looks like it'll be a long wait before anything substantial.

This seems to be a general disposition that modularity with kits is wrong or somehow a give-away to the customer rather than a force that drove more sales. GW was once very proud of it's new 98' marine kits being modular and understood being able to mix and match different marks of armour was key to it. The last tac box made before the Primaris (Who are also bad for the hobby through all having the same mark of armour and even their chapter upgrade kits are low energy) took this almost to an extreme. And now both the torso and legs of Primaris and new CSM only go together one way because somebody thought that players didn't use the waist articulation very much without thinking that taking those options away damaged the hobby. Other companies even make their miniatures with full ball joints between legs and torso. And now we can't swap legs or torsos either. Other lines are now suffering this too but it's not as noticed since torso and leg modularity wasn't as big in conversions.