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 Agamemnon2 wrote:
Well, the Grotesques should really get a plastic kit of their own, I've never seen anyone field the finecast versions, and it looks like the other two remaining FC units in the army list, Mandrakes and the Court, are on their way out as well.

The Lhamaean, for some reason, is not Last Chance To Buy. An omission?

I always found it weird how Grotesques are supposed to be taken in squads but GW only sell one old finecast model.

 dan2026 wrote:
I always found it weird how Grotesques are supposed to be taken in squads but GW only sell one old finecast model.

It's GW's way of encouraging people to either use old crusty 3rd ed models, or 3d print their own superior models. It's a public service, really.

3rd ed Grotesques are more like Wracks. Monstrous infantry sized Grotesques only exist since the 5th ed codex and their situation has not made whole lot of sense for the entirety of their existence. You could even say it's grotesque.

And the 3rd edition "Grotesque" models are among the least successfully executed concepts of that old range, which is saying a lot. I don't think many people used them even back in 1998.

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
And the 3rd edition "Grotesque" models are among the least successfully executed concepts of that old range, which is saying a lot. I don't think many people used them even back in 1998.

Them and the OG Oblits.

Not a great time for 'big' infantry.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
And the 3rd edition "Grotesque" models are among the least successfully executed concepts of that old range, which is saying a lot. I don't think many people used them even back in 1998.

Them and the OG Oblits.

Not a great time for 'big' infantry.

To be fair, for much of early 3rd edition, 40k didn't even have much "big infantry". Bipedal models mostly came on 25mm round bases, or 40mm squares, and the latter were fairly uncommon. Even Wraithguard were on 25s. IIRC, the Ork Warboss and Nobz were the first ever kit to use the 40mm round base.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/04/17/sunday-preview-dive-into-a-new-chapter-of-warhammer-underworlds/
See, range rotation.

 Gert wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/04/17/sunday-preview-dive-into-a-new-chapter-of-warhammer-underworlds/
See, range rotation.

Kind of alarming just howe much of the Dark Eldar range is disappearing.

Also really odd that the singularity guns are vanishing for the Necron Titan - a single part for a huge kit and they are rotating out one weapon option. Seems like a strange choice all told, esp as its a kit that seems to sell better than expected (its constantly falling in and out of stock).

Nice to get confirmation

And yes a good chunk of Dark Eldar and, unlike the recent marine chunk, this isn't just heroic leaders but some core units - eg that's their entire beast-master line of models gone for an unknown length of time.

 Overread wrote:
Also really odd that the singularity guns are vanishing for the Necron Titan - a single part for a huge kit and they are rotating out one weapon option. Seems like a strange choice all told, esp as its a kit that seems to sell better than expected (its constantly falling in and out of stock).

Nice to get confirmation

And yes a good chunk of Dark Eldar and, unlike the recent marine chunk, this isn't just heroic leaders but some core units - eg that's their entire beast-master line of models gone for an unknown length of time.

Last I checked, though, the Seraptek was still being sold in a bundle with the guns that are going away. Perhaps these guns just won't be available on their own for the time being?

And, really... is anyone fielding Dark Eldar Beastmasters or Courts of the Archon?

Or at least, if they are...are they buying the models from GW?

 dan2026 wrote:
Kind of alarming just howe much of the Dark Eldar range is disappearing.

Sort of? I mean it's all Finecast models and in many cases stuff that gets bought once. All of this stuff has rules in the current Codex and it would be nice to see plastic versions of all of it. That being said, with the Beast packs, Archons Court, and Grotesques, there are a lot of other models that can very easily be used instead (and should be used instead in the case of the Grotesque).
Hell, the Beastmaster is £17 and for £1 more you can buy a box of Helions. Chuck on an Agoniser from the Wyches or Kabalites and you have a Beast Master plus a bunch of parts and gubbins.
All the "hound" alternate options are better for money as well. The only real problem could be for the Razorwings.

 dan2026 wrote:

 Gert wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/04/17/sunday-preview-dive-into-a-new-chapter-of-warhammer-underworlds/
See, range rotation.

Kind of alarming just howe much of the Dark Eldar range is disappearing.

Its only a third of the DE kits. No big deal, right?

[They have 34 listings on the store page, including codex, cards, combat patrol and webway portal. They're losing 11 of 30 kits). That is indeed alarming.

And I've noticed we've already gone from the range rotation is 'Fine because its just marine characters' to 'Ah, you didn't buy those anyway, and its nothing you want multiple of'

% of the range doesn't matter nearly as much as what the kits are. For example, losing the grotesque is barely a loss at all, while beastmasters and court are two rarely used units that make up half of these cuts.

Not saying none of these sting, but just looking at raw % is misleading.

If these Ork characters returned in metal I might even consider buying them
(only half joking since some Failcast models for Lotr have been retransfered to metal recently).

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:
And, really... is anyone fielding Dark Eldar Beastmasters or Courts of the Archon?

Sslyth are sssexy models, at least.

Voss wrote:
Its only a third of the DE kits. No big deal, right?

[They have 34 listings on the store page, including codex, cards, combat patrol and webway portal. They're losing 11 of 30 kits). That is indeed alarming.

And all of them are Finecast and are very easy to replicate with other GW models. Turns out the sky isn't falling after all, who'd have thought.

And I've noticed we've already gone from the range rotation is 'Fine because its just marine characters' to 'Ah, you didn't buy those anyway, and its nothing you want multiple of'

Actually, that's not true at all. It was very specifically noted in the Marine batch that most of the models being rotated were single purchase cases, older kits, or Finecast.

Regardless the point is accurate. How many people are buying multiple Au'Va's or Zagstruks? I've seen more converted versions of Ork characters than the actual models because everyone I've met hates Finecast.

 Gert wrote:

All the "hound" alternate options are better for money as well. The only real problem could be for the Razorwings.

I almost never used them, but I made my Khymerae out of the old plastic Chaos Warhounds kit. Still available for £18 for 10 doggoes. For mine, I omitted the weird horns and some of the more organic detail like pustules and stuff, and then greenstuffed over all of it with more fur, and finished things off with an otherworldly pale white paintjob with black teeth, for a pack of eyeless hounds straight from a pedigree breeder somewhere in Comorragh.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
% of the range doesn't matter nearly as much as what the kits are. For example, losing the grotesque is barely a loss at all, while beastmasters and court are two rarely used units that make up half of these cuts.

Not saying none of these sting, but just looking at raw % is misleading.

Not if you want to know if the range is supported or not. Turns out... not.

'Someone on the internet doesn't like them' is not a useful value for DE player who wants to expand their army or collection.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gert wrote:

And I've noticed we've already gone from the range rotation is 'Fine because its just marine characters' to 'Ah, you didn't buy those anyway, and its nothing you want multiple of'

Actually, that's not true at all. It was very specifically noted in the Marine batch that most of the models being rotated were single purchase cases, older kits, or Finecast.

Regardless the point is accurate. How many people are buying multiple Au'Va's or Zagstruks? I've seen more converted versions of Ork characters than the actual models because everyone I've met hates Finecast.

'We're not doing the thing you say we're doing, let me explain more why we're doing it.'
Yeah, right.

The accurate point is that range rotation spread and is proceeding to gut armies, exactly as I expected and feared. And the response is <excuse as to why they're bad> so it doesn't matter to <person posting> if large chunks of someone else's army goes away or not.

You don't have to care. But don't try to justify why it won't matter to other people, because it will.

Voss wrote:

'We're not doing the thing you say we're doing, let me explain more why we're doing it.'
Yeah, right.

You said people changed their argument on the latest batch compared to the first. You are wrong. Not difficult to understand mate.

The accurate point is that range rotation spread and is proceeding to gut armies, exactly as I expected and feared. And the response is <excuse as to why they're bad> so it doesn't matter to <person posting> if large chunks of someone else's army goes away or not.

Hey there, I play Drukhari and I couldn't care less that most of these are going away because I never wanted those models. I said this was generally not a big deal because there are a hell of a lot of alternative models for most of what is being rotated. In fact, I think the one exception is the Mandrakes. But hey if you want to pay £18 for two Finecast dog things be my guest, I'll drop £32.50 on some Direwolves and get five times as many for less than double the price of your two and they'll be plastic.

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
I almost never used them, but I made my Khymerae out of the old plastic Chaos Warhounds kit. Still available for £18 for 10 doggoes. For mine, I omitted the weird horns and some of the more organic detail like pustules and stuff, and then greenstuffed over all of it with more fur, and finished things off with an otherworldly pale white paintjob with black teeth, for a pack of eyeless hounds straight from a pedigree breeder somewhere in Comorragh.

I was tempted to use the AoS DoK Underworlds warband as my Archons Court, Archon, and Succubus. I might still do upon my next army expansion because £21 for 5 plastic models, even if I don't use them all, is better than £13 each (£52 total) for Finecast ones.

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:


And, really... is anyone fielding Dark Eldar Beastmasters or Courts of the Archon?

I can only speak for myself, but I love the idea of the Court of the Archon, and the models are great.

The rules might be poor, but I don't think that the answer is to get rid of the models. Hopefully plastic kits are on the way, but I fear that the options may just be removed from the future codex.

I love that people just flat-out ignore the concept of range rotation in favour of being negative and fear-mongering. Not to mention, once again, the numerous alternatives to the current models. It's like none of you have ever heard of converting or kitbashing or custom models.

Making a bunch of Dark Eldar models unavailable is kind of crappy move and pretty alarming. Seems pretty different than removing some ancient marine character models.

Well when some of us on the original range rotation thread flagged that this could potentially happen to other armies to any random extent as a problem we got some dismissive feedback.

Now we are were we are and sorry to say that this will be something that we have to live with.

 Gert wrote:
I love that people just flat-out ignore the concept of range rotation in favour of being negative and fear-mongering. Not to mention, once again, the numerous alternatives to the current models. It's like none of you have ever heard of converting or kitbashing or custom models.

I love this 'how dare you not like it, you must not be a real hobbyist' gatekeeping. And the wild assumption that anyone who doesn't like it never converts or kitbashes. [For clarity: this assumption is unsurprisingly baseless and wrong]

So, on 'negative and fear-mongering,' what, exactly, are the positives? What benefits is GW providing by disappearing parts of an army range? You've provided none, simply said it doesn't matter (to you, and therefor to everyone) because you've got yours and you'd rather convert anyway.

What is not negative about parts of the army range going away, regardless of the maybe-temporary nature of that unavailability? It doesn't let them make new kits, because they've been ramping up on that over the years despite not doing range rotation.

There are zero positives from the consumer's point of view. It's just another way to try to eke another % of profit out of their already legendary margins.

It's also a really weird decision given how wedded GW has been in the recent past to "no rules without a model." Now it is going to be a regular part of 40k that there are datasheets you cannot buy a model for except from ebay scalpers. And not just obscure characters, but whole units. It is hard for me to believe that the warehouse savings are really worth the costs of sending people to 3D printing or 3rd party minis by telling them they literally cannot buy the GW model even if they want to.

yukishiro1 wrote:
There are zero positives from the consumer's point of view. It's just another way to try to eke another % of profit out of their already legendary margins.

The way I see it is, if they dont keep their range in stock and I need them for my projects, I just save the money and actually put the project on hold... and we all know what happens to those projects.

No sale on 1 item of a future project can actually make me rethink the investment on the full project.

Voss wrote:
I love this 'how dare you not like it, you must not be a real hobbyist' gatekeeping. And the wild assumption that anyone who doesn't like it never converts or kitbashes. [For clarity: this assumption is unsurprisingly baseless and wrong]

Never said you had to like it chief, just think people declaring this yet another end-of-the-world event is a joke. But sure, when you have ignored my point about there being loads of alternative options for those being removed (and at a better price bracket) how could I not be an elitist gatekeeper. Makes perfect sense.
Maybe instead of endlessly complaining, you could come up with solutions to the "problem". But complaining is easier isn't it?

So, on 'negative and fear-mongering' what, exactly, are the positives? What benefits is GW providing by disappearing parts of an army range? You've provided none, simply said it doesn't matter (to you, and therefor to everyone) because you've got yours and you'd rather convert anyway.

Less Finecast. Also, don't have any of the things going away and still don't understand why people seem so opposed to the concept of alternate models when usually the anti-GW crowd are all about alternate models.

What is not negative about parts of the army range going away, regardless of the maybe-temporary nature of that unavailability? It doesn't let them make new kits, because they've been ramping up on that over the years despite not doing range rotation.

See, that's your problem. You're so obsessed with seeing everything GW does as some slight that you'll just ignore that range rotation has been done with LotR and works fine. I never claimed it would allow new kits, I said it would be nice to see some. Everything has to be part of a big conspiracy for you otherwise you can't justify complaining all the time.
Go outside and touch some grass before you hurt yourself.

i'd disagree with that, range rotation is better than 'oops we don't sell enough of this one, off to legends with it and stop selling the mini forever'

it would be great if stuff stuck around until it was replaced by a new model, but we've clearly seen that isn't going to be the case and with finite warehouse space (even if it's recently increased) and ever more kits being released something has to give

at least with range rotation most of the stuff will be back at least once

(and hopefully a model being in range rotation will also mean that the loadout/character sticks around in the upcoming rules releases too as its clear that they're doubling down on the no model no rules such that there has to be a current model or away goes that weapon loadout even if it used to be traditional