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Nice that they threw a bone to Salamanders for handing out their ignore AP1 bit. Do other armies have a similar mechanic on a subfaction that got ignored a/o will work oddly with the new rule?

I'm an IG players, and looking at the new rule I'm going all OMG Emperor protect those in front of a horde list.

M.

Edit: A infantry squad with all bells and whistles was 90pts (Power weapon, plasma pistol, LasCan, melta, vox) now it's 60pts.

 Nevelon wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:


It’s going to take a lot more then ignoring a point of AP to help scouts.

Ignoring two points of AP?

Honestly, I’m not sure if ignoring all AP and making their 4+ a 4++ would be enough to save them in their current state. But that’s a bit off topic for here. They need a total rework, not a balance pass.

Didn't stop them from making a change on infantry squads, lol.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:


It’s going to take a lot more then ignoring a point of AP to help scouts.

Ignoring two points of AP?

Honestly, I’m not sure if ignoring all AP and making their 4+ a 4++ would be enough to save them in their current state. But that’s a bit off topic for here. They need a total rework, not a balance pass.

Didn't stop them from making a change on infantry squads, lol.

It’s been multiple editions since I’ve seen a guard army on the table, and haven’t been following their rules. The impression I have though is that they are in a bad place right now. I see all the call outs to them in this balance sheet as both an admission of that, and a sign that they are not going to get a codex anytime soon. So they get a handful of buffs as a hold you over, to keep the guardsmen from selling their armies and quitting 40k. Might not be enough to fix their problems, but keep them soldiering on in the face of massive codex creep.

Just curious about what the Starweaver and Voidweaver points were previously. I've yet to get that codex...

I think the changes to the guard could be enough to see a Guard list actually win something.

Each imperial guard squad has all of its updates free is huge. I now would spend 50 more points on the basic squads (for my brigade), but now save 360 points potentially on equipment.

This is the largest increase in lethality that the guard has seen in forever.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I'm reposting this here as well, because hot damn this is too much fun!

Hi everyone!

I'm Guardsmen Johannsen. I have a Lasgun. I feel pretty confident that the God-Emperor of Mankind is behind me, willing me to greater and greater acts of heroism and bravery.

Hello there, Traitors Warlord Titan of a Legion long since lost to the Emperor's Grace. You sure are a big scary robot. But, I rolled a 6, so I auto-wound you.

Why, good day, blue-skinned Tau. Your Manta is a majestic feat of technology - for a xenos that is - and I have seen them glow as they enter the atmosphere at super-high speeds, dog fighting with all manner of aerial foes. But I have a Lasgun, and a natural 6, so I guess that counts for nothing.

Hey Eldar! Your Phantom Titans sure look like works of art, and they move like real people. They blur as they move gracefully, and Wraithbone has been, to my experience, an unknowable dark art capable of turning aside almost anything. But I rolled a 6, so feth you!

I was confused by this at first as I'd missed the 'ranged attacks auto-wound on 6s to hit' rule.

Lasguns go pew, I guess.

SamusDrake wrote:
Just curious about what the Starweaver and Voidweaver points were previously. I've yet to get that codex...

80 and 90 respectively

SamusDrake wrote:
Just curious about what the Starweaver and Voidweaver points were previously. I've yet to get that codex...

Starweavers were 80pts, now +15pts
Voidweavers were 90pts, now +40pts

That's an increase of around 400pts on most of the recent Harlequin spam lists.

Cheers.

I'm guessing that the voidweaver will increase to 6 power in the next update.

Heck, the new "Hammer of the Emperor Rule" also applies to vehicles. That is a big improvement for multilasers.

For every weapon really. I think we are going to see Las/Plas guard squads coming back.

 Nevelon wrote:
Nice that they threw a bone to Salamanders for handing out their ignore AP1 bit. Do other armies have a similar mechanic on a subfaction that got ignored a/o will work oddly with the new rule?

It is not their ignore AP, as theirs only worked for AP-1, this works for all an every AP thrown at them. But yes they lost their chapter Tactic to my impression. Or it works strange. As their trait says to ignore AP-1, with the new rule AP-2 becomes AP-1, same for other rules which afaik state to ignore AP -1 or -2.
Or is that meant with the third bullet point?

This is a pretty sweeping set of changes, that is going to have a huge effect on the meta. I like the Armor of Contempt changes a lot.

Custodes got hit pretty hard. They'll need to reverse some of the changes here if they up the points. Auspice going to once per game is pretty brutal.

. I do feel Tau got off pretty light here, but we'll see how it goes in practice.

Not going to matter much if Crusher is still allowed when Nids release on Saturday.

bmsattler wrote:

...Power Armor being stronger is a welcome change. I am looking forward to seeing these guys back on the table from time to time. Are Death Guard and Thousand Sons 'Heretic Astartes?'

No. They are Bubonic Astartes and Arcana Astartes respectively.

 DreadfullyHopeful wrote:

bmsattler wrote:

...Power Armor being stronger is a welcome change. I am looking forward to seeing these guys back on the table from time to time. Are Death Guard and Thousand Sons 'Heretic Astartes?'

No. They are Bubonic Astartes and Arcana Astartes respectively.

They are also Heretic Astartes in addition to those things.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I'm reposting this here as well, because hot damn this is too much fun!

[i]Hi everyone!

I'm Guardsmen Johannsen. I have a Lasgun. I feel pretty confident that the God-Emperor of Mankind is behind me, willing me to greater and greater acts of heroism and bravery. [...]But I rolled a 6, so feth you!

I haven't had enough coffee to be sure, but am I right that now, per shot, a guardsman with a lasgun is twice as capable of wounding a vehicle (high toughness etc.) as a marine with a bolter?

I'm looking at my 100 infantrymen in packed tight formation: *Maniacal laughter*

Honestly though, GW has clearly reached a point where they have feth all run out ideas for the Guard and pump it up in a way that are both silly and sad for me. For me this proves that we will not see a Guard Dex before 2023 and if not it will be a horrible broken mess like the rules of that balancing fix. Sorry I'm out for now, I'll play one page rules, Killteam and focus on painting the shame away until they get their feth together.

And to be honest, the Hammer of the Emperor rule isn't even the worst offender. But that 60 points per squad and all upgrades for free completely undermines the modular arms approach. If you start buying HWTs and start building all sorts of specially equiped Sergeants/Vox Soldiers/Weapon Specialists, I'd like to remind you of the time Guardssquads had access to Power Axes/Maces and how that went.

These balance dataslates are starting to make my head hurt, and days like today where I'm happy I'm a filthy casual.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Now Lasguns auto-wound Land Raiders and Knights on a 6.

Sure. That makes sense.

Yes, it makes sense, because it both gives much needed boost to pure IG and has big opportunity cost in giving up ability to munchkin cherrypick best trait for every single unit. Hell, I would bet WAACers will call this laughably weak and will continue to stack cheese instead.

And big whoopeedoo, one IG squad will do less than a single extra wound thanks to this which will get promptly saved by these big units. Oh no, such power, much wow!

tneva82 wrote:
sure but it's just for changing imbalance to get players buy new models

0/10 bait, but OK, I will bite. What models exactly according to yet another wrong conspiracy theory GW wants to push with this change?

 Irbis wrote:
0/10 bait, but OK, I will bite. What models exactly according to yet another wrong conspiracy theory GW wants to push with this change?

Clearly it's the plastic Catachans they're trying to push. /s

 GiToRaZor wrote:

And to be honest, the Hammer of the Emperor rule isn't even the worst offender. But that 60 points per squad and all upgrades for free completely undermines the modular arms approach. If you start buying HWTs and start building all sorts of specially equiped Sergeants/Vox Soldiers/Weapon Specialists, I'd like to remind you of the time Guardssquads had access to Power Axes/Maces and how that went.

Frankly, I'm of the opinion that HWTs are going away from Infantry Squads. DKoK have yet to see them and the Cadian repack did not include a HWT.

Generally prefer AP resist to Invul as a mechanic.

The power armour thing seems like a tacit admission that handing out extra AP all over the shop was a blunder, but the toothpaste's out of the tube now so we get more convoluted exceptions to the standard rules piled on top of them.

The Guard auto-wound thing's just lazy, gamey and incredibly immersion-breaking – up there with "no second wound for Chaos Marines just because" on that front. Hate it.

 Fwlshadowalker wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:
Nice that they threw a bone to Salamanders for handing out their ignore AP1 bit. Do other armies have a similar mechanic on a subfaction that got ignored a/o will work oddly with the new rule?

It is not their ignore AP, as theirs only worked for AP-1, this works for all an every AP thrown at them. But yes they lost their chapter Tactic to my impression. Or it works strange. As their trait says to ignore AP-1, with the new rule AP-2 becomes AP-1, same for other rules which afaik state to ignore AP -1 or -2.
Or is that meant with the third bullet point?

The SM (and Sisters) sections points out that Sallies and Valorous heart swap their (-1 Ap counts as 0 AP) rule for 'attackers can't re-roll wound rolls'


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Nazrak wrote:
The power armour thing seems like a tacit admission that handing out extra AP all over the shop was a blunder, but the toothpaste's out of the tube now so we get more convoluted exceptions to the standard rules piled on top of them.

Its quietly walking AP back to 3rd-7th edition. Low AP weapons matter against GEQ and Orks, but have no effect on Space marines. That it also affects higher AP is a little crazy, but hey, what's one more accounting step in this muddle of a game?
(As an aside, I feel bad for Howling Banshees again. This is functionally a stealth nerf for their primary job)


I'm more amused that they just ad hoc wrote two USRs (Bodyguard and Indirect Fire), to combat really specific problems.

The cracks in 9th edition are _really_ showing.

Does my ap0 ork lobba give people +1 to save now?

 Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote:
Does my ap0 ork lobba give people +1 to save now?

Yep.

 Rihgu wrote:

 Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote:
Does my ap0 ork lobba give people +1 to save now?

Yep.

Please read the actual rules of 40k. "When reducing an AP characteristic, add the appropriate amount to the characteristic, to a maximum of 0. For example: reducing an AP of -1 by 1 would result in an AP of 0; reducing an AP of 0 by 1 would result in an AP of 0."

 Nevelon wrote:
Nice that they threw a bone to Salamanders for handing out their ignore AP1 bit. Do other armies have a similar mechanic on a subfaction that got ignored a/o will work oddly with the new rule?

Yeah, Order of the Valorous Heart would reduce ap -1 and -2 by one point, that's been replaced by a 'can't re-roll to wound'.

Amusingly, the Minoris Order ability that reduces ap -1 to ap 0 was left unchanged.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Rihgu wrote:

 Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote:
Does my ap0 ork lobba give people +1 to save now?

Yep.

Please read the actual rules of 40k. "When reducing an AP characteristic, add the appropriate amount to the characteristic, to a maximum of 0. For example: reducing an AP of -1 by 1 would result in an AP of 0; reducing an AP of 0 by 1 would result in an AP of 0."

Read the actual rules of the indirect fire rule, which modify the armor save of the target, not the armor modifier of the attack.

 Rihgu wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Rihgu wrote:

 Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote:
Does my ap0 ork lobba give people +1 to save now?

Yep.

Please read the actual rules of 40k. "When reducing an AP characteristic, add the appropriate amount to the characteristic, to a maximum of 0. For example: reducing an AP of -1 by 1 would result in an AP of 0; reducing an AP of 0 by 1 would result in an AP of 0."

Read the actual rules of the indirect fire rule, which modify the armor save of the target, not the armor modifier of the attack.

I just woke up and misread what he was asking, whoops, my bad.