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SirDonlad wrote: Examine the case of the Minotaur Artillery Battery.
Or look at what they did to the poor Macharius. It used to be a proper heavy tank, not quite as well armed as a Baneblade but carrying a legitimate big gun and protected by AV 14. Now it's nerfed to AV 13, the former 7" blast battle cannon is now a twin-linked AP4 small blast with 24" range. For 600 ***ING POINTS. WTF is this trash and why does GW think it's acceptable to publish such stupid rules?
I can't...
why?!?
i mean; at least it's still super-heavy?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/07/04 22:49:03
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-px27tzAtVwZpZ4ljopV2w "ashtrays and teacups do not count as cover"
"jack of all trades, master of none; certainly better than a master of one"
The Ordo Reductor - the guy's who make wonderful things like the Landraider Achillies, but can't use them in battle..
Or look at what they did to the poor Macharius. It used to be a proper heavy tank, not quite as well armed as a Baneblade but carrying a legitimate big gun and protected by AV 14. Now it's nerfed to AV 13, the former 7" blast battle cannon is now a twin-linked AP4 small blast with 24" range. For 600 ***ING POINTS. WTF is this trash and why does GW think it's acceptable to publish such stupid rules?
I can't...
why?!?
i mean; at least it's still super-heavy?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/07/04 22:49:03
A super heavy with all of 6 hull points. A Spartan has more firepower, more armor, huge transport capability, is faster, all for 250 points less.
I think at this point that the unit entries team either goofed really hard or what we see in the legendaries/legacies (whatever) PDF is actually unfinished.
I can see how a corporate entity might grab an unfinished unit list (or one which was supposed to have someone go over it again at a later point); not notice things wrong and everyone else to be essentially a 'yes man' all the way to release.
That said, i can also see someone pointing out that they don't actually have to bother writing the unit entries if they just hand out a blank slate and only change things when 'the community' suggests to.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-px27tzAtVwZpZ4ljopV2w "ashtrays and teacups do not count as cover"
"jack of all trades, master of none; certainly better than a master of one"
The Ordo Reductor - the guy's who make wonderful things like the Landraider Achillies, but can't use them in battle..
Like i said before the PDF defitily has some winners and some losers, the Macharius is one of the losers, same goes for the tsons special snipers.
But there are some big big winners in there, the Fulminators, and box naughts for example are defiantly bringing home the gold. Havocs are bringing home a silver for sure as well.
Feels like GW showing their hand, so to speak.
Like they want it to become a sea of infantry with dreadnoughts scattered all over the place like some of the early Adeptus Titanicus artwork.
You know the ones - with a lone predator with every weapon firing in a different direction and a single landspeeder flying overhead - that sort of thing
edit
Spoiler:
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/07/05 14:37:51
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-px27tzAtVwZpZ4ljopV2w "ashtrays and teacups do not count as cover"
"jack of all trades, master of none; certainly better than a master of one"
The Ordo Reductor - the guy's who make wonderful things like the Landraider Achillies, but can't use them in battle..
I'm currently chuckling at people saying 'look out sir' is gone while the new rules say the player being shot at gets to choose who takes a wound.
So nothing has changed apart from you don't have to actually say 'look out sir' or roll a dice anymore - you just choose what shots go on whom.
I think you misread or misremembered the LoS rule.
Before you could tank the hits on the character, then pass the unsaved wounds off to the unit with "look out sir"
Now whatever model you choose to take the wound on is the one that must take the save. No more "take it on my artificer armor, but remove a power armor guy" situation.
I'm currently chuckling at people saying 'look out sir' is gone while the new rules say the player being shot at gets to choose who takes a wound.
So nothing has changed apart from you don't have to actually say 'look out sir' or roll a dice anymore - you just choose what shots go on whom.
I think you misread or misremembered the LoS rule.
Before you could tank the hits on the character, then pass the unsaved wounds off to the unit with "look out sir"
Now whatever model you choose to take the wound on is the one that must take the save. No more "take it on my artificer armor, but remove a power armor guy" situation.
Thats also a misinterpretation. You could not do that, and if someone was, im like 99% sure you were being played lol. If a model took a save they had to take the wound as well if they failed, you could not pass it off.
Look Out Sir was just a way to counter precision shots or snipers so that you could not effectivity pick off characters from a squad.
With that removed it now made snipers SUPER viable in HH 2.0
I'm currently chuckling at people saying 'look out sir' is gone while the new rules say the player being shot at gets to choose who takes a wound.
So nothing has changed apart from you don't have to actually say 'look out sir' or roll a dice anymore - you just choose what shots go on whom.
I think you misread or misremembered the LoS rule.
Before you could tank the hits on the character, then pass the unsaved wounds off to the unit with "look out sir"
Now whatever model you choose to take the wound on is the one that must take the save. No more "take it on my artificer armor, but remove a power armor guy" situation.
Thats also a misinterpretation. You could not do that, and if someone was, im like 99% sure you were being played lol. If a model took a save they had to take the wound as well if they failed, you could not pass it off.
Look Out Sir was just a way to counter precision shots or snipers so that you could not effectivity pick off characters from a squad.
With that removed it now made snipers SUPER viable in HH 2.0
If thats the case, than whats the complaint? Seems like the removal of LoS is a net positive to the game by enabling sniper type weapons.
I'm currently chuckling at people saying 'look out sir' is gone while the new rules say the player being shot at gets to choose who takes a wound.
So nothing has changed apart from you don't have to actually say 'look out sir' or roll a dice anymore - you just choose what shots go on whom.
I think you misread or misremembered the LoS rule.
Before you could tank the hits on the character, then pass the unsaved wounds off to the unit with "look out sir"
Now whatever model you choose to take the wound on is the one that must take the save. No more "take it on my artificer armor, but remove a power armor guy" situation.
Thats also a misinterpretation. You could not do that, and if someone was, im like 99% sure you were being played lol. If a model took a save they had to take the wound as well if they failed, you could not pass it off.
Look Out Sir was just a way to counter precision shots or snipers so that you could not effectivity pick off characters from a squad.
With that removed it now made snipers SUPER viable in HH 2.0
It is, there is literally no down side to removing lookout sir.
If thats the case, than whats the complaint? Seems like the removal of LoS is a net positive to the game by enabling sniper type weapons.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/07/05 15:15:30
I'm currently chuckling at people saying 'look out sir' is gone while the new rules say the player being shot at gets to choose who takes a wound.
So nothing has changed apart from you don't have to actually say 'look out sir' or roll a dice anymore - you just choose what shots go on whom.
I think you misread or misremembered the LoS rule.
Before you could tank the hits on the character, then pass the unsaved wounds off to the unit with "look out sir"
Now whatever model you choose to take the wound on is the one that must take the save. No more "take it on my artificer armor, but remove a power armor guy" situation.
I don't think you can use the save of a character then pass the wound off to another model because the save comes after the wound roll and LoS was about moving the targeted model away from being 'the closest model'
The point of annoyance i was getting at was the way you'd see a 2+ save sarge tanking all the higher AP suff and marines would be flinging themselves in the way as soon as an AP2 or AP1 weapon was incoming.
In 2.0 the controlling player chooses who takes the wound, so all the high AP shots are automatically applied to the sarge or whomever else happens to have a 2+, while any lascannons or artillery will be taking out the padding first.
Spoiler:
edit: sorry totally forgot that artillery is AP4 now
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/07/05 21:31:53
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-px27tzAtVwZpZ4ljopV2w "ashtrays and teacups do not count as cover"
"jack of all trades, master of none; certainly better than a master of one"
The Ordo Reductor - the guy's who make wonderful things like the Landraider Achillies, but can't use them in battle..
just whatever you do don't click the videos. And if you do, make sure you watch only a few seconds, give it a dislike, and DON'T COMMENT.
Commenting, good or bad, helps their algorithm.
It's part of why they make such idiotic videos that are obviously wrong or stir up dissent -- they know you'll hate watch so you can make a "well akshully" comment. That actually HELPS them.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/07/07 19:32:53
I watched the outer circle videos regarding the pdf. I also watched other youtubers discussing the same content. All came to the same conclusion:
Some units were deliberately nerfed to nudge people into using models presented in the core books. I don´t understand what the problem about this revelation is all about.
Strg Alt wrote: Some units were deliberately nerfed to nudge people into using models presented in the core books. I don´t understand what the problem about this revelation is all about.
They used to encourage you to use niche or rare units by having interesting rules and reasonable points costs (arvus lighter, anvillus drop pod, triaros, LR achillies)
Not saying they got it right all the time though; they messed up royal with thanatars - particularly the Sollex Pattern Lascannon on the Calix variant.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-px27tzAtVwZpZ4ljopV2w "ashtrays and teacups do not count as cover"
"jack of all trades, master of none; certainly better than a master of one"
The Ordo Reductor - the guy's who make wonderful things like the Landraider Achillies, but can't use them in battle..
A very bad commentator for world of warcraft who thinks he has his finger on the pulse of the community but really has it up his own bum.
The outter circle is that same kinda person IMO.
Ah, that makes it clearer ^^
Automatically Appended Next Post: So... you can't give chainswords to tactical marines anymore, right? just to veterans?
That puts a crimp on my units, as the Mk IIIs had chainswords in the sprues and looked cool...
I'm pretty sure chainswords are a +5 ppm option for Tacticals.
D'oh, I apparently hovered around it as it was indented like the other options, and for some reason it's different from the bayonets... honestly, there's no rhyme or reason to how they put stuff on the list >_>
Nothing about the general AP changes?
Nothing about the scrubbing of unique special rules and profiles for units?
Nothing about the disconnect between the three books?
There was too much AP2 spam in HH 1. Medusas especially where just stupidly good and Plasma was just a default choice for special weapons.
The cutting of a bunch of units isn't a problem for me as much as I thought it would be, mostly because almost everything got added back in anyway. Havocs going from (again) insanely good to just good is fine IMO. I like the Iron Warriors rules and Hammer of Olympia is actually something I'm using now.
I haven't noticed a huge disconnect. Out group seems to be doing just fine with our Legions.
I never heard anyone complain about the amount of AP2 that was available; it was the strength 10 and therefore 'instant death' nature of the medusa and it's free phosphex sheels, that did, but never the fact units had AP2.
Same with the quad-mortar - nobody complained about the AP3 but they did complain about the four small blasts per model in the unit along with phosphex crawling death rule.
I guess you didn't bother to kitbash units which didn't have an official model.
Wut? I said that it was good that the Malcador chassis vehicles have all been brought to the same level. Its not my fault you didn't know the chassis hasn't been used as Superheavy for ages.
Just stop.
You admitted yourself that you don't actually know when earlier in the thread.
i went and checked out my books and found that the malcador is actually STILL super-heavy for the solar auxillia; they just get to take them as ordinary units without using up their lord of war slot.
In fact do you not remember when super-heavies were expanded and FW literally said that the reason their profiles were better in 30k was because they knew how to maintain them properly back then?
The malcador become a 'fast' super-heavy; remember that?
Gert wrote: What mechanic is this? Sorry if I missed it but our group isn't actively looking for ways to break the system.
The claim is that 'look out sir' was removed because of how ridiculous it was to have marines jumping out of cover to take a bullet for their sarge like they're defending a hoop in the last seconds - but in 2.0 the player who owns the unit being shot chooses which model takes which wound without saying anything or even rolling a dice to see if successful or not.
It's literally what you do every combat and your group didn't see that coming?!?
Bruh, when I played four years ago the ONLY complaint I ever heard was about the absolute rampant amount of AP2 in the game, which TRIPPLED when AdMech came out and had it nearly army wide. Phosphex galore, especially on guard or Deathguard. Artificer armor and Terminators were mostly worthless and rarely made their target because there were always a million plasma guns waiting in the wind.
It sounds like your gaming circle had just had a fairly serious meta-swing at that point as a response to terminator/artificer saturation.
People complain the most about AP2 because it was the first threshold which could ignore artificer armour and terminator armour.
These models tend to be the most expensive points wise.
Therefore the player doesn't remember the countless saves they made with them; just the moments when the plasma team in a drop pod ace them in a single round, or the three medusas hit every model in the squad with every template, or a myrmidon team with photon thrusters got line of sight or the quad mortars got upgraded to phosphex but still used four small blasts.
Those are all highly memorable moments for multiple reasons but the AP is a distraction.
I could get salty at my thanatars getting system32 deleted by a single spartan assault tank but was it really the AP2 that clicked delete or the psychic powers which made sure they hit and wounded or me not having a cover save?
Problem was my opponent decided he wanted it removed and used the rules to leverage the odds as he's supposed to.
As a side note it is absolutely unreasonable to expect the opposing player to whittle a terminator blob away with AP3 or worse weaponry.
That said, if they knew you were committed to walking them across the board, maybe they'd go for it? scenario style?
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-px27tzAtVwZpZ4ljopV2w "ashtrays and teacups do not count as cover"
"jack of all trades, master of none; certainly better than a master of one"
The Ordo Reductor - the guy's who make wonderful things like the Landraider Achillies, but can't use them in battle..
That said, if they knew you were committed to walking them across the board, maybe they'd go for it? scenario style?
I have a feeling this is why they reduced the amount of AP2. Not because of the complaints, but because the reduced amount made Terminators and Dreadnought feel like they do in the fluff where they stride through masses of firepower undaunted.
You know you're really doing something when you can make strangers hate you over the Internet. - Mauleed
Just remember folks. Panic. Panic all the time. It's the only way to survive, other than just being mindful, of course-but geez, that's so friggin' boring. - Aegis Grimm
Hallowed is the All Pie The Before Times: A Place That Celebrates The World That Was
I have a feeling this is why they reduced the amount of AP2. Not because of the complaints, but because the reduced amount made Terminators and Dreadnought feel like they do in the fluff where they stride through masses of firepower undaunted.
Yeah i think you're spot on there.
edit: i realized i made a comment about dreadnoughts and MC status which was me cross-thinking from another forum entirely so i deleted it but crabblesworth saw it and replied before the deed was done.
So i felt i needed to re-add something here to explain the sudden random detraction into MC status discussion..
Sorry everyone.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2022/07/09 15:57:23
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-px27tzAtVwZpZ4ljopV2w "ashtrays and teacups do not count as cover"
"jack of all trades, master of none; certainly better than a master of one"
The Ordo Reductor - the guy's who make wonderful things like the Landraider Achillies, but can't use them in battle..
The only issue i have with armour facings for dreadnoughts is the sudden death aspect of rolling on the damage chart which is what drive my sympathy toward dreadnoughts as MCs.
i'd have preferred them to look into allowing dreadnoughts to join a squad and gain a cover save from them rather than nerfing weapon AP to encourage the 'dreads among marines' aesthetic
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/07/09 16:31:22
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-px27tzAtVwZpZ4ljopV2w "ashtrays and teacups do not count as cover"
"jack of all trades, master of none; certainly better than a master of one"
The Ordo Reductor - the guy's who make wonderful things like the Landraider Achillies, but can't use them in battle..
