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Dudeface wrote:
It'd be interesting to find out, I'd also wager that the vast majority of gnashing over points updates being in the MFM were from people who only ever used battlescribe/wahapedia/PDFs, given that they were free in the app if you owned the legitimate product.

I sub to Wahammer+ and have app access, but the app is just terrible. I want digital points even with app access. It's just that unusable and GW has not met their commitments that they made on it after its launch.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:
Nah, hire some "security experts" and eliminate it instead.

That sort of behaviour should not be rewarded.

I think, but can't prove that Wahapedia is a net positive for GW.

At certain times in history piracy informs the path the consumer wishes to take and in this case it is an accessible digital tool. I would gladly pay GW for their own Wahapedia.

No doubt.
Having the rules readily available is so important for my local groups.

 vict0988 wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:
Nah, hire some "security experts" and eliminate it instead.

That sort of behaviour should not be rewarded.

I think, but can't prove that Wahapedia is a net positive for GW.

At certain times in history piracy informs the path the consumer wishes to take and in this case it is an accessible digital tool. I would gladly pay GW for their own Wahapedia.

It'd be interesting to find out, I'd also wager that the vast majority of gnashing over points updates being in the MFM were from people who only ever used battlescribe/wahapedia/PDFs, given that they were free in the app if you owned the legitimate product.

LOL, they're free on BS and Waha as well, people just don't like GW's silly app.

So... Why did so many people complain about paying for points updates then?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
It'd be interesting to find out, I'd also wager that the vast majority of gnashing over points updates being in the MFM were from people who only ever used battlescribe/wahapedia/PDFs, given that they were free in the app if you owned the legitimate product.

I sub to Wahammer+ and have app access, but the app is just terrible. I want digital points even with app access. It's just that unusable and GW has not met their commitments that they made on it after its launch.

Oh 100% the project manager on that needs a slap.

Dudeface wrote:


So... Why did so many people complain about paying for points updates then?

Because free on there, doesn't mean free to use in an tournament or official location often.
Which makes them essentially free but not useable in many cases.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
It'd be interesting to find out, I'd also wager that the vast majority of gnashing over points updates being in the MFM were from people who only ever used battlescribe/wahapedia/PDFs, given that they were free in the app if you owned the legitimate product.

I sub to Wahammer+ and have app access, but the app is just terrible. I want digital points even with app access. It's just that unusable and GW has not met their commitments that they made on it after its launch.

Oh 100% the project manager on that needs a slap.

just one?

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:
Nah, hire some "security experts" and eliminate it instead.

That sort of behaviour should not be rewarded.

I think, but can't prove that Wahapedia is a net positive for GW.

At certain times in history piracy informs the path the consumer wishes to take and in this case it is an accessible digital tool. I would gladly pay GW for their own Wahapedia.

Yep, like piracy dropped when people could access most of the shows they wanted, legally, on demand on a few places (Amazon, Netflix).

Then each cable company/channel decided to make their own application and lock their stuff to there and in so doing recreated the situation which made piracy a better customer experience than the legal route.

Or, Nintendo sitting on the massive catalogue of retro games it owns but not releasing them on its digital storefronts. These games are not legally acquirable outside of managing to find one second hand. So yeah, pirate those games if you want to play them. Nintendo doesn't want to sell them, after all.

As I see we already have people eliminating context from my comments from the quote chain...

- I'm not defending GW's apps, nor Warhammer+ as a whole
- I'm not defending the short-lived campaign books, nor the apparent quality of certain rules releases (though I do appreciate the PDF indicating when stuff rotates out, as long as it is kept updated).
- I have consistently been against the piracy of content. Pay creators, don't pirate their work.
- The person I was responding to suggested hiring the person behind that site - someone who is, by definition, pirating the content from GW's books. Doing so would see them reaping some degree of benefit from what they've done, which should be discouraged.
- I have nothing against a digital distribution of GW's rules, as long as it is done via the IP-holder, not via piracy.
- No, I don't get why they got rid of official e-books (etc) either, though I guess they may have made getting content on that site easier.

 Dysartes wrote:
As I see we already have people eliminating context from my comments from the quote chain...

- I'm not defending GW's apps, nor Warhammer+ as a whole
- I'm not defending the short-lived campaign books, nor the apparent quality of certain rules releases (though I do appreciate the PDF indicating when stuff rotates out, as long as it is kept updated).
- I have consistently been against the piracy of content. Pay creators, don't pirate their work.
- The person I was responding to suggested hiring the person behind that site - someone who is, by definition, pirating the content from GW's books. Doing so would see them reaping some degree of benefit from what they've done, which should be discouraged.
- I have nothing against a digital distribution of GW's rules, as long as it is done via the IP-holder, not via piracy.
- No, I don't get why they got rid of official e-books (etc) either, though I guess they may have made getting content on that site easier.

Well GW ain't doing it correctly the first five times, so they don't get money. IF they ever do, maybe they'll get money. As is, just because they're the IP creator doesn't mean they deserve anything more than they already got.

Dudeface wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:
Nah, hire some "security experts" and eliminate it instead.

That sort of behaviour should not be rewarded.

I think, but can't prove that Wahapedia is a net positive for GW.

At certain times in history piracy informs the path the consumer wishes to take and in this case it is an accessible digital tool. I would gladly pay GW for their own Wahapedia.

It'd be interesting to find out, I'd also wager that the vast majority of gnashing over points updates being in the MFM were from people who only ever used battlescribe/wahapedia/PDFs, given that they were free in the app if you owned the legitimate product.

Given that pt changes are an errata to the game they should just be free on the Community page along with all the other errata....

 Dysartes wrote:

Nah, hire some "security experts" and eliminate it instead.

That sort of behaviour should not be rewarded.

You mean putting in thankless effort as a third party to make their game actually playable at official events? Lol. If Waha went down the playability of 40k would suffer dramatically.

Dudeface wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:
Nah, hire some "security experts" and eliminate it instead.

That sort of behaviour should not be rewarded.

I think, but can't prove that Wahapedia is a net positive for GW.

At certain times in history piracy informs the path the consumer wishes to take and in this case it is an accessible digital tool. I would gladly pay GW for their own Wahapedia.

It'd be interesting to find out, I'd also wager that the vast majority of gnashing over points updates being in the MFM were from people who only ever used battlescribe/wahapedia/PDFs, given that they were free in the app if you owned the legitimate product.

You don't even need to own book to get points in app.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:
As I see we already have people eliminating context from my comments from the quote chain...

- I'm not defending GW's apps, nor Warhammer+ as a whole
- I'm not defending the short-lived campaign books, nor the apparent quality of certain rules releases (though I do appreciate the PDF indicating when stuff rotates out, as long as it is kept updated).
- I have consistently been against the piracy of content. Pay creators, don't pirate their work.
- The person I was responding to suggested hiring the person behind that site - someone who is, by definition, pirating the content from GW's books. Doing so would see them reaping some degree of benefit from what they've done, which should be discouraged.
- I have nothing against a digital distribution of GW's rules, as long as it is done via the IP-holder, not via piracy.
- No, I don't get why they got rid of official e-books (etc) either, though I guess they may have made getting content on that site easier.

Well GW ain't doing it correctly the first five times, so they don't get money. IF they ever do, maybe they'll get money. As is, just because they're the IP creator doesn't mean they deserve anything more than they already got.

Well nobody is entitled for 40k rules.

Myself i hope every pirate gets sooner or later fired and won't find new job.

tneva82 wrote:

Well nobody is entitled for 40k rules.

Myself i hope every pirate gets sooner or later fired and won't find new job.

People who bought a codex should be. But then GW invalidates it *and makes you pay* to get the new points cost? That's BS.

We have had it confirmed that, as of the next CA release, the points updates will be available for free on WHC - it was in an article a month or so back, IIRC (possibly in the WarhammerFest stuff?).

Hecaton wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

Nah, hire some "security experts" and eliminate it instead.

That sort of behaviour should not be rewarded.

You mean putting in thankless effort as a third party to make their game actually playable at official events? Lol. If Waha went down the playability of 40k would suffer dramatically.

if waha went down, most regulars at my LGS would stop playing lol.

if (when) battlescribe stops working, the rest will follow

 Dysartes wrote:
We have had it confirmed that, as of the next CA release, the points updates will be available for free on WHC - it was in an article a month or so back, IIRC (possibly in the WarhammerFest stuff?).

Yes, but that doesn't change that it shows GW has bad designs on their customers for wanting to make them pay in the first place.

Hecaton wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Well nobody is entitled for 40k rules.

Myself i hope every pirate gets sooner or later fired and won't find new job.

People who bought a codex should be. But then GW invalidates it *and makes you pay* to get the new points cost? That's BS.

No, they didn't, if you wanted the printed points tome, yes. If you bought the codex, they were free via the free app.

Dudeface wrote:

Hecaton wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Well nobody is entitled for 40k rules.

Myself i hope every pirate gets sooner or later fired and won't find new job.

People who bought a codex should be. But then GW invalidates it *and makes you pay* to get the new points cost? That's BS.

No, they didn't, if you wanted the printed points tome, yes. If you bought the codex, they were free via the free app.

And if you bought the codex second-hand?

Hecaton wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

Hecaton wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Well nobody is entitled for 40k rules.

Myself i hope every pirate gets sooner or later fired and won't find new job.

People who bought a codex should be. But then GW invalidates it *and makes you pay* to get the new points cost? That's BS.

No, they didn't, if you wanted the printed points tome, yes. If you bought the codex, they were free via the free app.

And if you bought the codex second-hand?

Did you buy it knowing that the app code had been used? If so then, tough luck since you knew what you were buying?

Should I be angry my 2nd hand models don't come with all the spare components?

Dudeface wrote:
Did you buy it knowing that the app code had been used? If so then, tough luck since you knew what you were buying?

Should I be angry my 2nd hand models don't come with all the spare components?

Oh, so the book doesn't actually have the information you need? It requires some fething code? That's anti-consumer.

Hecaton wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
Did you buy it knowing that the app code had been used? If so then, tough luck since you knew what you were buying?

Should I be angry my 2nd hand models don't come with all the spare components?

Oh, so the book doesn't actually have the information you need? It requires some fething code? That's anti-consumer.

So what you're telling me is that people who knowingly bought an incomplete product feel outraged at being charged for the additional component?

You're really reaching here to try and find some weird edge case, you can just admit that they gave out free points updates previously you know. Nobody will take your black Knight stand away.

EviscerationPlague wrote:
Imagine thinking something that should be standard to begin with is just an extra component because technology bad LOL

Imagine designing and producing something in a manner where your expected user is someone who bought it.

Also, assuming your location flag is accurate, somewhat ironic.

Dudeface wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:
Imagine thinking something that should be standard to begin with is just an extra component because technology bad LOL

Imagine designing and producing something in a manner where your expected user is someone who bought it.

Also, assuming your location flag is accurate, somewhat ironic.

Bad products get thrown away or sold. You're shocked the codex is being sold used?

EviscerationPlague wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:
Imagine thinking something that should be standard to begin with is just an extra component because technology bad LOL

Imagine designing and producing something in a manner where your expected user is someone who bought it.

Also, assuming your location flag is accurate, somewhat ironic.

Bad products get thrown away or sold. You're shocked the codex is being sold used?

No I'm shocked people buy a used book and expect the one time redemption code to magically be provided to them.

Let me go crack out all my decade old pc games with steam keys printed in, you can buy these too and be pissed the code is used if you like?

I haven't encountered anyone who uses Wahapedia for rules content they did not buy the physical copy of.

I have encountered quite a few that use Wahapedia because it is a practical impossibility to keep up with their armies' rules in physical media.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I haven't encountered anyone who uses Wahapedia for rules content they did not buy the physical copy of.

I have encountered quite a few that use Wahapedia because it is a practical impossibility to keep up with their armies' rules in physical media.

Likewise. It's a real shame because nothing is stopping GW from having the same style reference guides that can be unlocked with the same digital code. "Piracy is almost always a service issue" -Gabe Newell

 DominayTrix wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I haven't encountered anyone who uses Wahapedia for rules content they did not buy the physical copy of.

I have encountered quite a few that use Wahapedia because it is a practical impossibility to keep up with their armies' rules in physical media.

Likewise. It's a real shame because nothing is stopping GW from having the same style reference guides that can be unlocked with the same digital code. "Piracy is almost always a service issue" -Gabe Newell

Well as the posters above me will tell you, it needs to be immediately accessible to the masses for free, a code won't cut it, because GW only sells new products.

In this community, for this game, notably on this site, there are some people who see the word pirating as either a default or a challenge.

A code that comes with a physical book has two pathologies:
1) you pay for the book. If all you wanted was a digital code, pay $6.99 or whatever. No need to pay $50 and then throw the book out. That's anti-consumer. It'd be like me wanting a glass of water but that isn't allowed unless I eat a Filet Mignon.

2) the app which the code unlocks is crap and probably isn't worth $6.99 either. The passionate community has generated far better databases and information sources for giggles than the GW app.

Dudeface wrote:

 DominayTrix wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I haven't encountered anyone who uses Wahapedia for rules content they did not buy the physical copy of.

I have encountered quite a few that use Wahapedia because it is a practical impossibility to keep up with their armies' rules in physical media.

Likewise. It's a real shame because nothing is stopping GW from having the same style reference guides that can be unlocked with the same digital code. "Piracy is almost always a service issue" -Gabe Newell

Well as the posters above me will tell you, it needs to be immediately accessible to the masses for free, a code won't cut it, because GW only sells new products.

In this community, for this game, notably on this site, there are some people who see the word pirating as either a default or a challenge.

GW has the funds to make it happen. They just don't.

All I can say is that in my personal experience, the overwhelming majority of people are not pirating at all but rather using Waha as an easy reference for content they DID pay for. They require no justification because they aren't doing anything wrong.

I actually believe that GW making all of their rules content free to download from their website would not have a significant enough impact on book sales to result in a net loss against the gains in customers who currently stay out of the game entirely due to price & quantity of rulebooks.

Dudeface wrote:
So what you're telling me is that people who knowingly bought an incomplete product feel outraged at being charged for the additional component?

You're really reaching here to try and find some weird edge case, you can just admit that they gave out free points updates previously you know. Nobody will take your black Knight stand away.

It's not an incomplete product lol. They literally say "within these pages is everything you'll need to field an x army."


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
All I can say is that in my personal experience, the overwhelming majority of people are not pirating at all but rather using Waha as an easy reference for content they DID pay for. They require no justification because they aren't doing anything wrong.

I actually believe that GW making all of their rules content free to download from their website would not have a significant enough impact on book sales to result in a net loss against the gains in customers who currently stay out of the game entirely due to price & quantity of rulebooks.

Probably the head of the book printing division has enough clout in the company to prevent that from happening.

Hecaton wrote:
They literally say "within these pages is everything you'll need to field an x army."

In fairness, that's bs the instant a FAQ or Chapter Approved drops.