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Made in gb
Sergeant Major





One thing to consider is the tooling for the Heresy sets is often shared between different kits, so the start up cost would be less than a set of kits with all unique sprues.
   
Made in gb
Gore-Drenched Khorne Chaos Lord




 Matrindur wrote:
Spoiler:
Dudeface wrote:

Thank you for that, I had a hard time gauging the size from the pics.


Since modern sprues all have injection points on them which are those round disks with a pin sticking out, you can use these to see what size a sprue is.
So heres is how I named the different sprue sizes:

Double size means four injection points which is the size the Rogal Dorn is using and is the same size as the biggest model boxes, so most vehicles and Combat Patrols
Full size is half a double size sprue so two injections points and the same size as most troop boxes (new cadians for example)
Half size is half a full size sprue so only one injection point and the size of characters that get boxes instead of clampacks (Ursula Creed)
And then there are clampack sprues which also have one injection point but are slightly smaller than half size sprues

And then you have to take note that these meant for normal boxes, for army sets, combat patrols, other big sets GW sometimes doesn't break apart smaller sprue sizes for example the cadians are produced as two full size sprues stuck together for the size of a double size sprue which then get broken apart for their solo box. But since the Cadia Stands army set was a bigger box they didn't break them apart for that. The below list has all sprues added together to double size.

For your list that would mean:

Rogal Dorn - 3 double size sprues - £55
Hekaton land fortress - 3 double size sprues - £65
Battlewagon - older so different injection points but should be 4 double size sprues and the old special upgrade sprue which seems to be slightly smaller than a full size so I'll say 4.4 double size sprues? - £65
Plagueburts Crawler - 2 double size sprues - £42.50
40k Land Raider - so old that it doesn't have the injection points so I can't really say which size the sprues are but if I had to guess I would say around 3 double size sprues? - £52.50
30k Land Raider Proteus - 3 double size sprues and 2 full size so 4 double size in total- £52.50
30k Spartan - 4 double size sprues and 2 full size so 5 double size in total- £67.50
Sicaran - 2 double size sprues and 3 full size so 3.5 double size in total - £47.50
Kratos - 4 double size sprues and 2 full size so 5 double size in total - £75
Void Raven - 2 double size sprues - £52.50
Crimson Hunter - older so different injection points but should be 2 double size sprues - £52.50
Monolith - 4 double size sprues and 1 full size and 1 half size so 4.75 double size in total - £105
Ghost ark - again older so different injection points but should be 3 double size sprues - £35
Kill Rig - 2 double size sprues and 1 full size so 2.5 double size in total - £80


But on a whole GW doesn't really care about sprue count, their pricing is mainly a result of finished model size and to a big part game/lore importance (which is why characters are so expensive)


Thank you for the extra work, that's very helpful and will help inform people.

It sounds daft but it does look like options were either only 1 gun loadout + base plate and fewer gubbins, or make up an extra half sprues worth and crank it up £10-15.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/01/24 16:42:26


 
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Shakalooloo wrote:
Apple fox wrote:

They got to step it up if they want to be selling for the price they asking here.


Given that they sold out of this one, we'll have to see if their next previewed tank gets them bombarded with "Does this have an underside?" comments until they realise what people want.


Isn’t sold out here, which was my price comparison, and to a premium brand.
Selling out doesn’t even mean it’s a good kit, but it’s meme value probably worth it.
   
Made in in
[MOD]
Otiose in a Niche






Hyderabad, India

drbored wrote:
M
Go ahead and tell me what you'd get rid of to put in a 2"x4" piece of flat plastic that nobody will see.


Dozer blade. Throw in the tank accessory sprue instead, no additional tooling costs and it frees up space for a few things.

 
   
Made in hu
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot





 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
drbored wrote:
M
Go ahead and tell me what you'd get rid of to put in a 2"x4" piece of flat plastic that nobody will see.

Dozer blade.

I don't think the Rogal Dorn has that on the sprue.

My armies:
14000 points 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





tneva82 wrote:
Aecus Decimus wrote:
 Miguelsan wrote:
I don't get why some posters display such an obtuse attitude.


I suspect that, to put it in polite terms, they feel the need to validate their decision to spend $$$$$$$$ on the new kit. If a gaping hole in the bottom is a genuine design flaw then they're fools for spending premium money on a sub-par product. So the only alternative is that the hole is not a problem, and anyone who threatens their nice neat rationalization must be a hater who is just looking for reasons to be mad at GW.


Well is it flaw? Does it make the model less sturdy? Because that's only reason it would be flaw unless you also insist it has full interior, full control gear, full ammunition, full spare part supply etc all in scale as well.

It's only flaw if it affects the gaming piece as a gaming piece. Aka durability. Unless there's proof it affects durability then it's not a flaw.

Hell the part shouldn't even be painted if you are smart guy. Waste of good paint on irrelevant part. Do you paint interior of model before gluing it up as well?


The tabletop gaming side isn't the only thing that matters and excusing this by reducing the hobby to just that is absurd. GW even acknowledged their customer base is a variety of different people interested in the hobby for different things in their recent annual report:

Our customers can be found anywhere, and we seek them out all over the world.They’re a passionate bunch with an interest in science fiction and fantasy. They’re collectors, painters, model builders, gamers, book lovers and much more. And while no two customers engage with Warhammer in exactly the same way, they’re all deeply invested in the rich characters and settings of our IP.


It the end result of how something looked as a "gaming piece" was all that was important then kits would be as simple as possible with minimal to no unnecessary extras, but that's not the only consideration at all.
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka







 AtoMaki wrote:
 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
drbored wrote:
M
Go ahead and tell me what you'd get rid of to put in a 2"x4" piece of flat plastic that nobody will see.

Dozer blade.

I don't think the Rogal Dorn has that on the sprue.

Depending on whether there are sufficient track links so they can be left off, I'd start with the two track guards on the third sprue, then rerun the algorithm that places parts.

Alternatively, remove all the random bits of stowage (and crew) to their own... half-sprue(?) as a new "detail your tank" sprue (that can then go with other vehicles as well, or just be sold as a Direct Only item), add the hull plate, and re-run the algorithm.

If the latter happens to leave room for a third main gun option - which looks to just be a barrel swap, from what I can see - even better.

2021-4 Plog - Here we go again... - my fifth attempt at a Dakka PLOG

My Pile of Potential - updates ongoing...

Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.


 Kanluwen wrote:
This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.

Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...

tneva82 wrote:
You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling.
- No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something... 
   
Made in us
Is 'Eavy Metal Calling?





Affton, MO. USA

Watch a tank accessory sprue comes out with this piece added to it.

Not that I play guard, but it could be fun to put electronics in the bottom to have the pimped ride flashing underneath.

LOL, Theo your mind is an amazing place, never change.-camkierhi 9/19/13
I cant believe theo is right.. damn. -comradepanda 9/26/13
None of the strange ideas we had about you involved your sexual orientation..........-Monkeytroll 12/10/13

I'd put you on ignore for that comment, if I could...Alpharius 2/11/14 
   
Made in in
[MOD]
Otiose in a Niche






Hyderabad, India

I'm telling you it will be a hull mounted Mole Mortar!

In other news, think we'll see Rough Riders this month?

 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka







I don't think we'll see a second wave of Guard in January, Kid, no.

2021-4 Plog - Here we go again... - my fifth attempt at a Dakka PLOG

My Pile of Potential - updates ongoing...

Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.


 Kanluwen wrote:
This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.

Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...

tneva82 wrote:
You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling.
- No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something... 
   
Made in gb
Junior Officer with Laspistol





The Shire(s)

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
I'm telling you it will be a hull mounted Mole Mortar!


That would be incredible. The tech exists in 40k...

 ChargerIIC wrote:
If algae farm paste with a little bit of your grandfather in it isn't Grimdark I don't know what is.
 
   
Made in nl
Hardened Veteran Guardsman




 Dysartes wrote:
 AtoMaki wrote:
 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
drbored wrote:
M
Go ahead and tell me what you'd get rid of to put in a 2"x4" piece of flat plastic that nobody will see.

Dozer blade.

I don't think the Rogal Dorn has that on the sprue.

Depending on whether there are sufficient track links so they can be left off, I'd start with the two track guards on the third sprue, then rerun the algorithm that places parts.

Alternatively, remove all the random bits of stowage (and crew) to their own... half-sprue(?) as a new "detail your tank" sprue (that can then go with other vehicles as well, or just be sold as a Direct Only item), add the hull plate, and re-run the algorithm.

If the latter happens to leave room for a third main gun option - which looks to just be a barrel swap, from what I can see - even better.


Couldn't agree more with this. There is no excuse for the tank not being complete. Fundamentals should be a complete tank with basic options before adding any additional pieces. I'd start with omitting the wasted space of the man and his tea tray to fire the stubber from the back of the turret into the commander and gunner. Mounting on the hatch rings as previous designs was perfectly reasonable and logical. Comparing it to the WWII tanks it apes do you think Tamiya or Airfix would get away with a similar 'solution' despite the fact that those models are similarly unlikely to be seen upside down. If GW wants to claim to make high quality models they need to be high quality.
   
Made in fr
Perfect Shot Ultramarine Predator Pilot




 xttz wrote:
Forecasted sales of HH vehicles will be an order of magnitude higher than the Rogal Dorn.


{citation needed}

These aren't marine kits we're talking about, they're kits for a tertiary game that from anecdotal evidence is doing very poorly and they have no (realistic) use in 40k. Worse, the Proteus is an off-meta kit for a tertiary game that will only be bought by collectors who don't care about its on-table performance. I don't see any reason to assume an order of magnitude better sales when the "marines always sell" effect does not apply, especially compared to a shiny new tank aimed at the faction of obsessive tank hoarders.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Mentlegen324 wrote:
It the end result of how something looked as a "gaming piece" was all that was important then kits would be as simple as possible with minimal to no unnecessary extras, but that's not the only consideration at all.


And, very importantly, they would be cheap. Nobody would care about a hole if the kit cost $10 like the lowest-tier historical models. It's a throwaway game piece that is suitable for playing the game and has a price to match. But GW wants to sell it at a premium price, which means being judged compared to premium products. And by that standard the Dorn falls inexcusably short.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/01/24 21:30:28


 
   
Made in gb
Ancient Space Wolves Venerable Dreadnought





Dudeface wrote:
 Matrindur wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
Apple fox wrote:

For such expensive kits, it’s odd for a brand built on premium. How much more do you think the one extra sprue should cost and how much would we be saving having it cut.


Other vehicles in it's approximate size class/slot, some smaller, some larger - sprues and price:

Rogal Dorn - 3 sprues - £55
Hekaton land fortress - 3 Sprues - £65
Battlewagon - 4.5 sprues - £65
Plagueburts Crawler - 2 Sprues - £42.50
40k Land Raider - 4 sprues - £52.50
30k Land Raider - 5 sprues - £52.50
Sicaran - 5(!) sprues - £47.50
Kratos - 6(!) sprues - £75
Void Raven - 2 Sprues - £52.50
Crimson Hunter - 2 Sprues - £52.50
Monolith - 4 Sprues - £105
Ghost ark - 3 Sprues - £35
Kill Rig - 3 Sprues - £80

It is very obvious that as I stated before HH tanks are comparatively loss leaders in the sprue-price-tank game. Also the number of sprues largely doesn't matter to the price. Given the absurdity of the situation i think a 4th sprue should put the price up to £105 to match the monolith as is only fair. In seriousness I think matching the and fortress if there was a bottom plate + 3rd gun would be fair. We can also see that the flyers following the logic in here should be 2 to a box unless those sprues are doubled and I was being blind.


You have to look at the size of the sprues too. The Sicaran for example has only two double size sprues while the accessories, sponons and track sprues are only half that size which means only 3.5 double size sprues in there. The Kratos in the same way has 4 double size and 2 full size ones so 5 double size sprues in total. The point still stands that they are cheaper on a price per sprue basis but not as much


Thank you for that, I had a hard time gauging the size from the pics.

Another item worth noting with the HH sprues is that several of them are shared among multiple kits; the sponson weapon sprue, for example. This means they will amortise much faster because everyone who buys a predator, Sicaran, or Kratos is buying one, so it should probably count only 1/3. Same for the hatch/accessories sprue.

"Three months? I'm going to go crazy …and I'm taking you with me!"
— Vala Mal Doran
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Aecus Decimus wrote:
 xttz wrote:
Forecasted sales of HH vehicles will be an order of magnitude higher than the Rogal Dorn.


{citation needed}

These aren't marine kits we're talking about, they're kits for a tertiary game that from anecdotal evidence is doing very poorly and they have no (realistic) use in 40k. Worse, the Proteus is an off-meta kit for a tertiary game that will only be bought by collectors who don't care about its on-table performance. I don't see any reason to assume an order of magnitude better sales when the "marines always sell" effect does not apply, especially compared to a shiny new tank aimed at the faction of obsessive tank hoarders.


The Proteus kit is a single new sprue, with all other sprues included in 3 or more other kits.
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut






Tallonian4th wrote:
 Dysartes wrote:
 AtoMaki wrote:
 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
drbored wrote:
M
Go ahead and tell me what you'd get rid of to put in a 2"x4" piece of flat plastic that nobody will see.

Dozer blade.

I don't think the Rogal Dorn has that on the sprue.

Depending on whether there are sufficient track links so they can be left off, I'd start with the two track guards on the third sprue, then rerun the algorithm that places parts.

Alternatively, remove all the random bits of stowage (and crew) to their own... half-sprue(?) as a new "detail your tank" sprue (that can then go with other vehicles as well, or just be sold as a Direct Only item), add the hull plate, and re-run the algorithm.

If the latter happens to leave room for a third main gun option - which looks to just be a barrel swap, from what I can see - even better.


Couldn't agree more with this. There is no excuse for the tank not being complete. Fundamentals should be a complete tank with basic options before adding any additional pieces. I'd start with omitting the wasted space of the man and his tea tray to fire the stubber from the back of the turret into the commander and gunner. Mounting on the hatch rings as previous designs was perfectly reasonable and logical. Comparing it to the WWII tanks it apes do you think Tamiya or Airfix would get away with a similar 'solution' despite the fact that those models are similarly unlikely to be seen upside down. If GW wants to claim to make high quality models they need to be high quality.


Exactly this. It's a very poor decision by GW that reflects badly on the brand and make it look cheap. If for whatver reason, they couldn't make a tank that large at a reasonable price,without it being incomplete, they should have made a smaller one. This is the miniature equivalent of a maid putting all the trash in the closet and claiming she cleaned the room

lost and damned log
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/519978.page#6525039 
   
Made in gb
Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan






Aecus Decimus wrote:
 xttz wrote:
Forecasted sales of HH vehicles will be an order of magnitude higher than the Rogal Dorn.


{citation needed}

These aren't marine kits we're talking about, they're kits for a tertiary game that from anecdotal evidence is doing very poorly and they have no (realistic) use in 40k. Worse, the Proteus is an off-meta kit for a tertiary game that will only be bought by collectors who don't care about its on-table performance. I don't see any reason to assume an order of magnitude better sales when the "marines always sell" effect does not apply, especially compared to a shiny new tank aimed at the faction of obsessive tank hoarders.

In addition to the points made in the two posts above, you've clearly misunderstood the difference between past and future. A forecast is an attempt to predict the future using data from the past. I'm talking about forecasts made for new kits most likely in 2020-21. Well before GW knew for certain how well it would sell, well before the game was officially announced, possibly before they'd even finished writing the rules for it.

What would "off-meta" units have to do with the costing & pricing calculations for a game system that the customers don't even yet know about? Rules are going to constantly change for all game systems and models will fall in and out of favour with players.

The lifetime of most plastic kits is expected to be 10-20 years. It's pretty reasonable for anyone to assume prior to release that one 40k Imperial Guard vehicle is going to be heavily outsold by multiple combined Horus Heresy vehicle kits over the next couple of decades.

   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins





Tacoma, WA, USA

 Mr_Rose wrote:
Spoiler:
Dudeface wrote:
 Matrindur wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
Apple fox wrote:

For such expensive kits, it’s odd for a brand built on premium. How much more do you think the one extra sprue should cost and how much would we be saving having it cut.


Other vehicles in it's approximate size class/slot, some smaller, some larger - sprues and price:

Rogal Dorn - 3 sprues - £55
Hekaton land fortress - 3 Sprues - £65
Battlewagon - 4.5 sprues - £65
Plagueburts Crawler - 2 Sprues - £42.50
40k Land Raider - 4 sprues - £52.50
30k Land Raider - 5 sprues - £52.50
Sicaran - 5(!) sprues - £47.50
Kratos - 6(!) sprues - £75
Void Raven - 2 Sprues - £52.50
Crimson Hunter - 2 Sprues - £52.50
Monolith - 4 Sprues - £105
Ghost ark - 3 Sprues - £35
Kill Rig - 3 Sprues - £80

It is very obvious that as I stated before HH tanks are comparatively loss leaders in the sprue-price-tank game. Also the number of sprues largely doesn't matter to the price. Given the absurdity of the situation i think a 4th sprue should put the price up to £105 to match the monolith as is only fair. In seriousness I think matching the and fortress if there was a bottom plate + 3rd gun would be fair. We can also see that the flyers following the logic in here should be 2 to a box unless those sprues are doubled and I was being blind.


You have to look at the size of the sprues too. The Sicaran for example has only two double size sprues while the accessories, sponons and track sprues are only half that size which means only 3.5 double size sprues in there. The Kratos in the same way has 4 double size and 2 full size ones so 5 double size sprues in total. The point still stands that they are cheaper on a price per sprue basis but not as much


Thank you for that, I had a hard time gauging the size from the pics.

Another item worth noting with the HH sprues is that several of them are shared among multiple kits; the sponson weapon sprue, for example. This means they will amortise much faster because everyone who buys a predator, Sicaran, or Kratos is buying one, so it should probably count only 1/3. Same for the hatch/accessories sprue.
I am glad to see people are noticing the various shared sprues in the Horus Hersey vehicles and understand that makes them comparatively cheaper to produce. It is not a defense of GWs decision to leave the hole in the bottom of the Rogal Dorn, but it does explain why these more sprue kits are cheaper when multiple sprues are shared by multiple kits.
   
Made in us
Swift Swooping Hawk





Also, re: Proteus, I'd call it distinctly not "off-meta"; it and the rhino are about the only two vehicles that you can take without regret. Plus, as others have said, most of the 30k playerbase (the existing/legacy playerbase, at least), isn't as concerned about top table competitive viability. I think most of Decimus's comment was off base.
   
Made in fr
Perfect Shot Ultramarine Predator Pilot




 xttz wrote:
In addition to the points made in the two posts above, you've clearly misunderstood the difference between past and future. A forecast is an attempt to predict the future using data from the past. I'm talking about forecasts made for new kits most likely in 2020-21. Well before GW knew for certain how well it would sell, well before the game was officially announced, possibly before they'd even finished writing the rules for it.


If the forecast is so uncertain then how can you or GW be so sure that it would sell an order of magnitude more than the Dorn? Why is that a reasonable sales prediction?

What would "off-meta" units have to do with the costing & pricing calculations for a game system that the customers don't even yet know about? Rules are going to constantly change for all game systems and models will fall in and out of favour with players.


Rules don't change all that much. 30k 2.0 is a lot like 30k 1.0, where if you were taking a Land Raider of any kind it was a Spartan for your terminator death star. The only real change with vehicles in 2.0 was Contemptors getting buffed to an absurd level and making all non-Spartan vehicles obsolete. So it would have been pretty reasonable to expect the Proteus to be roughly as popular relative to other 30k units as it was in 1.0, which means it's an off-meta unit with poor expected sales that can only be made at all because it shares sprues with the auto-take Spartan. And because 30k as a whole has been far less popular than 40k even a kit that is popular relative to other 30k units should have low forecasted sales.

Contrast that with the Dorn, which is a shiny new tank for the primary game instead of the tertiary game and is made for a faction of obsessive tank hoarders that will buy far more copies of it than they can ever use in a game because tanks are cool and you can always have more tanks.
   
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Regular Dakkanaut




Aus

*checks thread for the first time in a few days, finds 6 pages of raging internet debate about a model tank bottom*

   
Made in us
Powerful Pegasus Knight





So uh, nobody seemed to know, but it appears as if the Cadian command squad can still take bolters, but the new kit does not have one. Is this correct?
   
Made in gb
Stubborn Dark Angels Veteran Sergeant






Sorry for being very off topic, but would love to know the anecdotal evidence HH is struggling, because I have sufficient anecdotal evidence it is absolutely thriving - in addition I know plenty of marine players that have bought numerous of the new HH tanks for 40k - and they plan to start a 30k army or already have.


My hobby instagram account: @the_shroud_of_vigilance
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Made in fr
Perfect Shot Ultramarine Predator Pilot




 endlesswaltz123 wrote:
Sorry for being very off topic, but would love to know the anecdotal evidence HH is struggling, because I have sufficient anecdotal evidence it is absolutely thriving - in addition I know plenty of marine players that have bought numerous of the new HH tanks for 40k - and they plan to start a 30k army or already have.



New releases (outside of minimum-effort shoulder pads) are slow and way behind schedule, GW has shown no apparent interest in fixing the major rule problems, hype from GW has dropped significantly, and online activity seems to be minimal relative to 40k activity. Look at active threads in Dakka's 30k section (for all of 30k combined) vs. just 40k general discussion and it's a huge disparity. 30k got some initial hype but once people realized what a dumpster fire the rules are it very quickly cooled. It looks very much like GW is putting 30k on the back burner and releasing the stuff they had already put into production before launch day but not prioritizing any further content. And that's not very impressive given the fact that 1.0 was a dead game and GW is trying to build it up from zero.

And I'd be really surprised if "plenty" of marine players are buying 30k tanks for 40k given how GW deliberately sabotaged their rules as part of their attempt to phase out FW stuff. They should have tried to exploit the "40k marines always sell" factor and their failure to provide proper 40k rules support is baffling, but I can't imagine anyone who has read IA:C deliberately buying the relic stuff for 40k games.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2023/01/25 05:13:59


 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

Aecus Decimus wrote:
New releases (outside of minimum-effort shoulder pads) are slow and way behind schedule
Are they?

Aecus Decimus wrote:
GW has shown no apparent interest in fixing the major rule problems
Have they?

Aecus Decimus wrote:
... hype from GW has dropped significantly...
Has it? I mean, it's one of the games being previewed in two days.

Aecus Decimus wrote:
... and online activity seems to be minimal relative to 40k activity.
All activity is minimal compared to 40k. That's really not all that earth-shattering.

Aecus Decimus wrote:
Look at active threads in Dakka's 30k section (for all of 30k combined) vs. just 40k general discussion and it's a huge disparity. 30k got some initial hype but once people realized what a dumpster fire the rules are it very quickly cooled.
I've heard nothing but praise for the rules, and several people here just chucking 40k in the bin altogether (especially after the recent Chaos Codex) to make 30k their main.

I just feel everything you just posted has a giant flashing [CITATION NEEDED] after it.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Main thing I see about 30k is just people waiting for kits in plastic.

Hard to finish your army or get games in with half-lists, and the starter box is only going to get you so much entertainment.

We also had several months of them pumping out tanks, upgrades, and other models, with more on the horizon and more to be revealed in a couple days.

But this is for Astra Militarum rumors, and the only thing we need to be concerned about is when the second wave is coming... which is likely going to be right after the Gitz and BoC come out.
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka







 Sledgehammer wrote:
So uh, nobody seemed to know, but it appears as if the Cadian command squad can still take bolters, but the new kit does not have one. Is this correct?

I've checked the Codex, Sledgehammer, and and Cadian Command Squad doesn't have any boltgun options, but the Commander and one other model could have a bolt pistol (thanks to silly equipment rules).

Looking at the Command Squad sprues, I see two arms with bolt pistols, and no sign of any boltguns at all.

2021-4 Plog - Here we go again... - my fifth attempt at a Dakka PLOG

My Pile of Potential - updates ongoing...

Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.


 Kanluwen wrote:
This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.

Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...

tneva82 wrote:
You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling.
- No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something... 
   
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 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Aecus Decimus wrote:
GW has shown no apparent interest in fixing the major rule problems
Have they?


Sure looks like Warhammer: Age of Contemptors is still in full effect and the only thing slowing them down at all is groups collectively deciding that holy that list is broken let's agree to never bring it. Nor has GW shown any apparent interest in fixing the F-tier joke of the pdf units or how way too much of the game consists of trying to game the reaction system and force your opponent to spend their one reaction for the phase. It's not like dread spam is a subtle thing, all GW has to do is pay even the slightest attention to the game and issue a balance fix.

All activity is minimal compared to 40k. That's really not all that earth-shattering.


But it does mean it's absurd to suggest that a reasonable sales forecast is for the Proteus to sell an order of magnitude more kits than the Dorn. 30k is a tertiary game being treated like a tertiary game after a brief hype period around the launch release, and even a successful 30k release is only successful relative to the other tertiary games. And this was even more true when GW committed to the sprue designs, as 30k was a dead game with nothing more than hope that the re-launch would be successful. So the original claim that "it's a space marine kit, of course GW can afford to give it more sprues and pay it off by selling orders of magnitude more copies" does not explain the situation with the relative sprue counts.
   
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Aecus Decimus wrote:
 endlesswaltz123 wrote:
Sorry for being very off topic, but would love to know the anecdotal evidence HH is struggling, because I have sufficient anecdotal evidence it is absolutely thriving - in addition I know plenty of marine players that have bought numerous of the new HH tanks for 40k - and they plan to start a 30k army or already have.



New releases (outside of minimum-effort shoulder pads) are slow and way behind schedule, GW has shown no apparent interest in fixing the major rule problems, hype from GW has dropped significantly, and online activity seems to be minimal relative to 40k activity. Look at active threads in Dakka's 30k section (for all of 30k combined) vs. just 40k general discussion and it's a huge disparity. 30k got some initial hype but once people realized what a dumpster fire the rules are it very quickly cooled. It looks very much like GW is putting 30k on the back burner and releasing the stuff they had already put into production before launch day but not prioritizing any further content. And that's not very impressive given the fact that 1.0 was a dead game and GW is trying to build it up from zero.

And I'd be really surprised if "plenty" of marine players are buying 30k tanks for 40k given how GW deliberately sabotaged their rules as part of their attempt to phase out FW stuff. They should have tried to exploit the "40k marines always sell" factor and their failure to provide proper 40k rules support is baffling, but I can't imagine anyone who has read IA:C deliberately buying the relic stuff for 40k games.


Respectfully I think you're dead wrong about this. One part of it is that in general the 30k community is alot more positive about painting, modelling, and encouraging each other than moaning about lack of plastic kits on forums. If you go on Instagram or Facebook you'll see massive amounts of 30k. It's got.way more popular since v2 came out and it's.continuing to grow. Heresy was around before plastic support so although yeah people do want the plastic kits for assault infantry and jump.troops they'll do what we've done for the last decade. Convert, use existing plastics, 3d print, use recasts if needed or just buy the resins.

As for "dumpster fire of rules" it really isn't. It's far from perfect but at this point it's a much easier game to play than 40k. Again there's a vocal minority whining about special rules not being easy to find but honestly it takes 5 minutes one time and then you know where they are. After that its just become a bit of a meme that everyone jokes about. A big company like GW shouldn't have released the rules in such a poor state but it's far from a dumpster fire.
   
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Bobug wrote:
It's got.way more popular since v2 came out and it's.continuing to grow.


Way more than zero is still not very much.

And remember the context here. The claim was that the Proteus can have more sprues than the Dorn at a lower price tag because when GW designed the kits back before Heresy 2.0 was launched a reasonable sales forecast was that the Proteus would sell an order of magnitude more copies than the Dorn so the cost per box of making the molds would be less despite a larger total cost. This is an absurd suggestion given the fact that Heresy 1.0 was a dead game with negligible sales and effectively zero interest, no sane analyst would have projected that level of revival and endorsed a sales plan that relied on it. The far more likely answer is that GW is perfectly capable of giving the Dorn an extra sprue to include the floor plate (along with another turret option or whatever) and decided that the whales will buy it anyway so just ship it with a giant hole in the bottom and pocket the extra profit.

As for "dumpster fire of rules" it really isn't.


The Contemptor Dreadnought wishes to dispute this claim. Even 40k doesn't have anything that egregiously bad.
   
 
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