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I'm a very long way from my books at the moment, so can't double check - but isn't the only 'new' thing here the combi-grav...? Otherwise it's all existing options?
Yes, Combi-Grav is the only new thing and the points and rules are exactly the same as a Praetor Warsmith with the Grav Hammer and Magna-Combi. You're basically just forgoing the extra options for a Combi-Grav if you want the model WYSIWYG.
tauist wrote: Welp, if these rumours turn out to be correct, I'm happy for MKII fans.
Personally however, I will not be buying HH 3 box if the contents are what these rumours claim they will be. I got no use for MKII, a physical rulebook nor a Hydra flakk gun platform. Better just to buy the Saturmine termies individually (if I even fancy the way they look, a big if) and the epub rulebook later
It's a core game now, it might not get epubs and pick up the mandatory app.
It's still a Specialist Games studio game, not a Main Studio one. They've never done the app before.
tauist wrote: Welp, if these rumours turn out to be correct, I'm happy for MKII fans.
Personally however, I will not be buying HH 3 box if the contents are what these rumours claim they will be. I got no use for MKII, a physical rulebook nor a Hydra flakk gun platform. Better just to buy the Saturmine termies individually (if I even fancy the way they look, a big if) and the epub rulebook later
It's a core game now, it might not get epubs and pick up the mandatory app.
It's still a Specialist Games studio game, not a Main Studio one. They've never done the app before.
Isn't Kill Team also SGS? It got an app (although the app functions almost like a pdf viewer).
tauist wrote: Welp, if these rumours turn out to be correct, I'm happy for MKII fans.
Personally however, I will not be buying HH 3 box if the contents are what these rumours claim they will be. I got no use for MKII, a physical rulebook nor a Hydra flakk gun platform. Better just to buy the Saturmine termies individually (if I even fancy the way they look, a big if) and the epub rulebook later
It's a core game now, it might not get epubs and pick up the mandatory app.
It's still a Specialist Games studio game, not a Main Studio one. They've never done the app before.
Isn't Kill Team also SGS? It got an app (although the app functions almost like a pdf viewer).
No, it is a core game, although I suspect 30k will transition over. I don't see how they can see any kind of success and that level of investment and not want to pivot it under the main umbrella and known practices.
Its not exactly main/core studio either, there is (or was) a separate "publications team" responsible for warcry, underworlds, kill team, and the random board games and one-off self contained games.
I dont see Horus Heresy "transitioning". Theres a specific brand and market placement strategy that GW is pursuing w its games and product lines, making HH part of the "core" product model is not conducive to that.
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
chaos0xomega wrote: Its not exactly main/core studio either, there is (or was) a separate "publications team" responsible for warcry, underworlds, kill team, and the random board games and one-off self contained games.
I dont see Horus Heresy "transitioning". Theres a specific brand and market placement strategy that GW is pursuing w its games and product lines, making HH part of the "core" product model is not conducive to that.
What brand is that? It's all under the GW umbrella regardless to anyone who doesn't delve into the depths of individual publishment teams for the books.
I'm also how not following your stance on market placement. They're sinking a fairly large volume of resources into 30k and I arent sure why they wouldn't want to push that like the larger games, either it's successful and they want to expand the player base, or it isn't and it's not supported much. Either way I can't agree that keeping it smaller and selling less on purpose is the plan.
chaos0xomega wrote: Its not exactly main/core studio either, there is (or was) a separate "publications team" responsible for warcry, underworlds, kill team, and the random board games and one-off self contained games.
I dont see Horus Heresy "transitioning". Theres a specific brand and market placement strategy that GW is pursuing w its games and product lines, making HH part of the "core" product model is not conducive to that.
Agreed. Every time a resin model is released it shows they're not planning to move HH anywhere close to 40K/AoS where anything but plastic got erased.
And that can only be good for the HH community.
chaos0xomega wrote: Its not exactly main/core studio either, there is (or was) a separate "publications team" responsible for warcry, underworlds, kill team, and the random board games and one-off self contained games.
I dont see Horus Heresy "transitioning". Theres a specific brand and market placement strategy that GW is pursuing w its games and product lines, making HH part of the "core" product model is not conducive to that.
What brand is that? It's all under the GW umbrella regardless to anyone who doesn't delve into the depths of individual publishment teams for the books.
I'm also how not following your stance on market placement. They're sinking a fairly large volume of resources into 30k and I arent sure why they wouldn't want to push that like the larger games, either it's successful and they want to expand the player base, or it isn't and it's not supported much. Either way I can't agree that keeping it smaller and selling less on purpose is the plan.
Who says theyre keeping it small on purpose? Theres an excess of stock for most HH products, the resins sell out on release, but not much else does. The mk3 battle group box set was on shelves for months, theres still availability of the mechanicum battle group box, and the recent mechanicum hs box set is available everywhere still. The cerastus knight battlegroup is likewise still available everywhere and thats with 40k players snapping them up. The only heresy release ive seen go out of stock on any consistent basis is the deimos rhino, and theres some obvious reasons for that. GW is producing product in excess of what the market can absorb. Thats not to say HH isnt successful but "limited resources" are quite clearly not holding back thegrowth and development of the game.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2025/03/23 13:08:20
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
chaos0xomega wrote: Its not exactly main/core studio either, there is (or was) a separate "publications team" responsible for warcry, underworlds, kill team, and the random board games and one-off self contained games.
I dont see Horus Heresy "transitioning". Theres a specific brand and market placement strategy that GW is pursuing w its games and product lines, making HH part of the "core" product model is not conducive to that.
What brand is that? It's all under the GW umbrella regardless to anyone who doesn't delve into the depths of individual publishment teams for the books.
I'm also how not following your stance on market placement. They're sinking a fairly large volume of resources into 30k and I arent sure why they wouldn't want to push that like the larger games, either it's successful and they want to expand the player base, or it isn't and it's not supported much. Either way I can't agree that keeping it smaller and selling less on purpose is the plan.
Who says theyre keeping it small on purpose? Theres an excess of stock for most HH products, the resins sell out on release, but not much else does. The mk3 battle group box set was on shelves for months, theres still availability of the mechanicum battle group box, and the recent mechanicum hs box set is available everywhere still. The cerastus knight battlegroup is likewise still available everywhere and thats with 40k players snapping them up. The only heresy release ive seen go out of stock on any consistent basis is the deimos rhino, and theres some obvious reasons for that. GW is producing product in excess of what the market can absorb. Thats not to say HH isnt successful but "limited resources" are quite clearly not holding back thegrowth and development of the game.
To me that reads "not selling as much as we would like" and they may take a leaf out of the other games to push it, but we'll have to wait and see (dreaded as that statement apparently is).
Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.
Kanluwen wrote: This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.
Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...
tneva82 wrote: You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling.
- No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something...
Was just wondering when the jump bears would come out.
I'm a little surprised they didn't wait on the tanks & Calix. The 'limited time' Heavy Support boxes haven't sold out on the GW store (and are widely available at a discount elsewhere), and based on the Cavas and Triaros pricing, any two of those kits is going to be more than the box of three.
(The HS box is 185 US, the Cavas 105, and the Triaros 92, so I assume the Karacnos and Calix are slightly more expensive individually, with a small chance of being the same price point)
A maniple of Thanatar can only have one Calix. The Karacnos is one per slot, but the Krios comes in squadrons of 1-3.
So, in terms of multiple set appeal its contents are limited.
I got two, because I’ve already got a pair of Thanatar, so I can field all four in a few combinations. The second Karacnos I’m in the midst of selling. The Krios will be a squadron, and I might be wanting more.
Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?
Yes indeed, but that heavy support boxed set was always a weird one, and unlikely to sell in big numbers. The model everyone really wants is the Krios.
Looking at them again, I'm really not a fan of the Ursarax. The design looks like a throwback to much earlier models.
Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
What brand is that? It's all under the GW umbrella regardless to anyone who doesn't delve into the depths of individual publishment teams for the books.
It sounds like you are operating on a 5-10 year old understanding of GW's structure. Information from the past few years has clarified that there is a main design studio/team and a secondary design studio/team called Specialist Design Studio (SDS, not SGS as I erroneously called it earlier).
Classifying games as "core" vs. "specialist" seems to have become an outdated paradigm, from what people have been able to glean of GW's internal operations.
How are you even determining that HH and KT are "core" games, btw? The layout of GW's commercial website?
What brand is that? It's all under the GW umbrella regardless to anyone who doesn't delve into the depths of individual publishment teams for the books.
It sounds like you are operating on a 5-10 year old understanding of GW's structure. Information from the past few years has clarified that there is a main design studio/team and a secondary design studio/team called Specialist Design Studio (SDS, not SGS as I erroneously called it earlier).
Classifying games as "core" vs. "specialist" seems to have become an outdated paradigm, from what people have been able to glean of GW's internal operations.
How are you even determining that HH and KT are "core" games, btw? The layout of GW's commercial website?
In so far as you're diving the game rules owners into two teams, then you're also dividing the product lines into two.
Kill team is written by the core/main rules writing team to the best of our knowledge. Previously HH fell under the purview of specialist designs as you note.
Specialist design games are for the smaller niche games, hence the name. So it stands that if they're pumping money in and seeing growth, it stops being a niche specialist and might get handed over.
You literally confirmed my point whilst saying it's out of date info?
chaos0xomega wrote: Its not exactly main/core studio either, there is (or was) a separate "publications team" responsible for warcry, underworlds, kill team, and the random board games and one-off self contained games.
I dont see Horus Heresy "transitioning". Theres a specific brand and market placement strategy that GW is pursuing w its games and product lines, making HH part of the "core" product model is not conducive to that.
The boxed games team aren't responsible for Warcry/Underworlds/Kill Team. They just do the one off games like the Barnes and Noble ones. Those three games are just main studio games.
What brand is that? It's all under the GW umbrella regardless to anyone who doesn't delve into the depths of individual publishment teams for the books.
It sounds like you are operating on a 5-10 year old understanding of GW's structure. Information from the past few years has clarified that there is a main design studio/team and a secondary design studio/team called Specialist Design Studio (SDS, not SGS as I erroneously called it earlier).
Classifying games as "core" vs. "specialist" seems to have become an outdated paradigm, from what people have been able to glean of GW's internal operations.
How are you even determining that HH and KT are "core" games, btw? The layout of GW's commercial website?
In so far as you're diving the game rules owners into two teams, then you're also dividing the product lines into two.
Kill team is written by the core/main rules writing team to the best of our knowledge. Previously HH fell under the purview of specialist designs as you note.
Specialist design games are for the smaller niche games, hence the name. So it stands that if they're pumping money in and seeing growth, it stops being a niche specialist and might get handed over.
You literally confirmed my point whilst saying it's out of date info?
So, first, how do you know HH has been transferred to the main design studio? Valrak or other rumourmongers? Because HH was one of the few products where it was, in the past, 100% confirmed to be designed under SDS' remit.
I honestly have trouble keeping track of which products are main/SDS because there's no logic to it and because GW suppresses credits for their creatives. During the FW decades it was obvious, because of the resin/plastic split, but now SDS gets time on the HIPs STCs. Doesn't neatly divide by setting. "Smaller niche games" certainly doesn't cover it, because Underworlds is the very definition of a small niche game and is apparently main studio.
But, no, it doesn't stand to reason that a game would automatically be handed over. If you've employed 20 people to handle AoS and 40K, and 10 people to handle Necromunda and Horus Heresy, and then Horus Heresy grows, you can't just expect the 20 fully-tasked people to absorb HH without restructuring or personnel transfers. It cannot be a painless automatic pipeline of "whatever gets popular goes directly to the main studio." That's not to say it can't happen, and there are also apocryphal stories of the main design studio having a bigger appetite (trying to snatch up The Old World iirc, according to some reports).
What brand is that? It's all under the GW umbrella regardless to anyone who doesn't delve into the depths of individual publishment teams for the books.
It sounds like you are operating on a 5-10 year old understanding of GW's structure. Information from the past few years has clarified that there is a main design studio/team and a secondary design studio/team called Specialist Design Studio (SDS, not SGS as I erroneously called it earlier).
Classifying games as "core" vs. "specialist" seems to have become an outdated paradigm, from what people have been able to glean of GW's internal operations.
How are you even determining that HH and KT are "core" games, btw? The layout of GW's commercial website?
In so far as you're diving the game rules owners into two teams, then you're also dividing the product lines into two.
Kill team is written by the core/main rules writing team to the best of our knowledge. Previously HH fell under the purview of specialist designs as you note.
Specialist design games are for the smaller niche games, hence the name. So it stands that if they're pumping money in and seeing growth, it stops being a niche specialist and might get handed over.
You literally confirmed my point whilst saying it's out of date info?
So, first, how do you know HH has been transferred to the main design studio? Valrak or other rumourmongers? Because HH was one of the few products where it was, in the past, 100% confirmed to be designed under SDS' remit.
I honestly have trouble keeping track of which products are main/SDS because there's no logic to it and because GW suppresses credits for their creatives. During the FW decades it was obvious, because of the resin/plastic split, but now SDS gets time on the HIPs STCs. Doesn't neatly divide by setting. "Smaller niche games" certainly doesn't cover it, because Underworlds is the very definition of a small niche game and is apparently main studio.
But, no, it doesn't stand to reason that a game would automatically be handed over. If you've employed 20 people to handle AoS and 40K, and 10 people to handle Necromunda and Horus Heresy, and then Horus Heresy grows, you can't just expect the 20 fully-tasked people to absorb HH without restructuring or personnel transfers. It cannot be a painless automatic pipeline of "whatever gets popular goes directly to the main studio." That's not to say it can't happen, and there are also apocryphal stories of the main design studio having a bigger appetite (trying to snatch up The Old World iirc, according to some reports).
I can't confirm anything has been transferred to anything, because I was talking in a hypothetical future tense.
But the premises is completely sound that the bigger chunk of the studio, known for handing them most of the cash and the more popular products, might be given a game that is gaining traction and they wish to expand its appeal/base.
Honestly 30k is truly a unicorn of the GW fanbase as far as I can see. People seem to think it should remain the little game that could and not get touched by GW, yet have loads of plastic support pumped out. They want to see it being successful and grow but are adamantly defensive that it's a small niche product.
None of this really matters I guess, either it's becoming a core product on a 3 year cycle, or it isn't. People will like it or they won't.
Sigh.
If it is a new edition, I'll continue to pick up models, but I don't want new books.
I haven't bought anything past the Astartes & Heretic books. The campaign books don't do anything for me.
I probably should grab the Mechanicum book while its still available tho.
Bam, said the lady!
DR:70S+GM++B+I+Pw40k09/f++D++A(WTF)/hWD153R+++T(S)DM++++ Dakka, what is good in life?
To crush other websites,
See their user posts driven before you,
And hear the lamentation of the newbs.
-Frazzled-10/22/09
but good value!
