Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Plastic ogryns?

Can't spot any difference between those and the resin ones. I hope there is some plastic charonites but if there is I'd say these aren't them (hope that's not a bad sign).

I do hope we see them in plastic. Fantastic looking kit, and plastic really opens up options.

Why are the new models for 30k so much cooler than the Marines on 40k?

It's like Cawl and Bobby G were all about uniformity in 40k.

I just wish the rules in 30k were worth messing with. I really wish that the game is good, and not as bad as some are making it out to be.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
Why are the new models for 30k so much cooler than the Marines on 40k?

It's like Cawl and Bobby G were all about uniformity in 40k.

I just wish the rules in 30k were worth messing with. I really wish that the game is good, and not as bad as some are making it out to be.

Nah, 30k rules turning out just good and interesting. Play few smaller scale games and see how turns out.

Horus Heresy folks are just that grumpy old folks that don't want any changes.

Or, and hear me out on this one, change is fine when it's warranted.

The changes to Psychic Powers in HH1 were absolutely needed because Word Bearers and Thousand Sons could abuse them.
Dreadnoughts, being changed from vehicles so they could compete with Automata and Monsters, also needed but were not executed very well.

The largest complaints have been that so far, the rules are a word pile that is difficult to parse, that a 3-year edition cycle is grim and not required, and that a lot of the changes are adding complexity for complexity's sake rather than enhancing the system.

"Wait and see" doesn't really hold truck when entire sections of the rules have been leaked online.

Rule no. 1 of Dakka: the regulars will always complain about something.

 Sotahullu wrote:

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
Why are the new models for 30k so much cooler than the Marines on 40k?

It's like Cawl and Bobby G were all about uniformity in 40k.

I just wish the rules in 30k were worth messing with. I really wish that the game is good, and not as bad as some are making it out to be.

Nah, 30k rules turning out just good and interesting. Play few smaller scale games and see how turns out.

Horus Heresy folks are just that grumpy old folks that don't want any changes.

That is NOT true! I would've dearly loved them to change the organization of the 2e books. It's so damned annoying to flip between (at least0 4 sections of 2 books to find all the special rules. Wich is still preferable than trying to read the blocks of text for each rule on my phone....

 Gert wrote:
"Wait and see" doesn't really hold truck when entire sections of the rules have been leaked online.

Phase 2 Wait And See-ism: You can't comment [negatively] on what GW has put out specifically for that purpose. You have to WAIT AND SEE for the full release (and enter Phase 3).

Just pondering...

I think the Custodes are going to be later on not only due to the number of kits getting a plastic refresh, but probably a big hype to finally introduce the Emperor himself. Maybe kickstarting a refresh of the Primarchs with Horus being first.

SamusDrake wrote:
Just pondering...

I think the Custodes are going to be later on not only due to the number of kits getting a plastic refresh, but probably a big hype to finally introduce the Emperor himself. Maybe kickstarting a refresh of the Primarchs with Horus being first.

I wouldn't expect the Emperor any time soon. The primarchs are already slowly getting a refresh- resin Angron is the next that will come out.

But we're already into the 2nd round of Primarchs? Horus, Fulgrim and Angron coming soon

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:
They're meant as a Heresy version of the Arcane Journals for Old World because GW thinks of Old World as AoS Heresy and have said it in multiple articles. That's the parallel they're evoking.

However, Arcane Journals are single faction splatbooks, Campaign Journals are game updates that for the most part everybody is supposed to buy.

They've already said they're doing non-faction Arcane Journals for TOW that cover specific events just like Heresy is doing.

Vorian wrote:
But we're already into the 2nd round of Primarchs? Horus, Fulgrim and Angron coming soon

So far, it seems to be less a second round than showing the glow-up all the Daemon Primarchs got for becoming, y'know, Daemons. The pattern doesn't seem to indicate a new model for Ferrus Manus is incoming, for example.

 BorderCountess wrote:
So far, it seems to be less a second round than showing the glow-up all the Daemon Primarchs got for becoming, y'know, Daemons. The pattern doesn't seem to indicate a new model for Ferrus Manus is incoming, for example.

They really want to avoid the hassle that comes with late war Ferrus with customer service having to explain to everyone that no, the head isn't missing.

What are people's objections to the new rules so far? Outside of the questionable wording/formatting/capitalization.

So far things feel fairly interesting, my only major gripe so far is the turn count. Which can be house ruled rather easily. Oh, and bolters not being all about short range volley's any more.

The only change Dreadnoughts needed in the current edition is just reduced wounds. A contemptor with 4 wounds opposed to 6 would really impact their oppressive resilience without returning them to their horrendous 1.0 state.

OR you can go the 3.0 GW way. "People complained about Dreadnoughts!" Reduced WS and BS, reduced durability in the form of multi-damage weapons that can one shot them, nerfed the ability to take multiple by removing talons and therefore adding an HQ tax for every dreadnought, nerfed their leadership by removing fearless making them susceptible to status tokens and potentially running from combat. Yeah hit em with the ol' Quad nerf!

Now tell me, in what way is a single Contemptor Dreadnought with all its nerfs worth the same HQ tax as the Armored Support detachment that gives you up to 4 tanks?

Assuming there aren't things like Mortifactors that could give multiple dreadnought slots, giving them an actual reason to take

 MajorWesJanson wrote:


I wouldn't expect the Emperor any time soon. The primarchs are already slowly getting a refresh- resin Angron is the next that will come out.

I honestly thought they had finished with the Primarchs with Fulgrim-transfigured and no idea they were doing an unnecessary refresh on top of it. Certainly they should have had the Emperor before even attempting such a thing.

cody.d. wrote:
What are people's objections to the new rules so far? Outside of the questionable wording/formatting/capitalization.

So far things feel fairly interesting, my only major gripe so far is the turn count. Which can be house ruled rather easily. Oh, and bolters not being all about short range volley's any more.

-There is no reason to make missions 4 turns outside of making the game more palatable for a competitive scene. The only argument I've seen people make in support of this change is "the game is usually over by turn four anyways." Which I would argue, ok if thats the case just leave the mission length alone. If its "always decided by turn 4" anyways who cares if there's two more turns. But as someone who has actually played the game for 12 years now, the amount of extremely close 5-6 turn late game struggles is all I need to remember to be completely opposed to this change. The Heresy community has a competitive scene, but its miniscule in comparison to 40K, because most in the community value HH for the narrative gameplay and personalization and conversion potential for the forces involved. And many others play HH specifically because it isn't dominated by a competitive scene like 40K. We don't want changes every 3 months for the sake of shaking up the meta. We don't want L shaped ruins and massive objective templates covering our tables.

-Multi damage weapons feel very off. I see no reason to make a melta-gun deal 6 damage when you can have squads of 10 running around and they only increase vehicles hull points by 1-2 points. This edition is going to be dominated by tactical support squads just decimating everything in one volley. Can you imagine playing against a drop-pod assault list with melta? Sounds fun.

-Line is now just a new version of OC. Yay.

-The tactical status are interesting, but I really don't see the value 3 additional statistics bring to the game that a simple leadership test couldn't already achieve.

-The challenge phase is laughable with the examples they have shown of it in action so far. Its essentially 6 additional pages of bloat along with the inevitable tide of legion/faction specific gambits you'll now have to memorize or feel gotcha'd every duel. And it seemingly results in a single round of combat to determine the victory, which is pretty much exactly how the game worked before. This is just going to slow the game down and feel gakky when you haven't memorized all 36 gambits that will be out at launch.

-All the Saturnine weapons seem terrible besides of course the dreadnought weapons that come out as DLC later. But all the options on the terminators and the dreadnought have more likely hood of killing you than the enemy. Id rather have a heavy bolter and a powerfist on my saturnine terminator than two guns that are going to cook my ass the first time I shoot.

-Perils of the Warp is terrible now, any doubles makes the prospect of running a Psyker a complete no-go for me.

-I know I for one don't want 18-36 "arcane journals" at the end of this inevitable 3 year edition that are invalidated paperweights as soon as 4.0 hits.

-They're pissing on us for fun putting an Automantic Pavaise on the Araknae turret instead of the Deredeo....

-There was a whole now invalid campaign book that detailed the inductii, and we cant use them until October. Sick, glad I just painted up 60 despoiler Inductii. That should be included in the Libers as part of each legion special rules breakdown on day one. Ridiculous content padding nothing more. We are doomed to just retrace ground thats already been retraced every three years now.

-The fact that we generally just have to memorize way more ancilary crap now. Theres core reactions, core gambits, legion specific advanced reactions, legion specific gambits. Probably even more stuff too.

The only thing I actually like so far is the force org and initiative modifiers to melee weapons. Everything else seems completely unnecessary.

I think a most of that is fair.

Wounds and DMG stats are an odd place. Instant death is gone it seems so perhaps it's for the best. I honestly don't know if dreads are going to be scary in this edition, not just cause of us not knowing a dread fists stats. Which is the reason to take one rather than just a unit of devestators. But also because a single melta shot at half range will knock them out, and that's just a little melta gun. Imagine what the big shots like a Kratos.

Also armour bane isn't a thing right so meltas have to roll against that armour value to actually kill a tank right?

Saturine armour can take a gun and a fist I believe, but I agree they seem merely okay.

The challange phase is waaaaaay overbloated without doubt. I'm unsure why they ditched initiative for focus dice and the like. Probably so it's not just a case of walk up with a specific weapon and win every time?

Bloat and churn do seem to be things GW has issues with nowdays.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I do hope we see them in plastic. Fantastic looking kit, and plastic really opens up options.

I can't find Charonite Ogryns in the web store...

 Snord wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I do hope we see them in plastic. Fantastic looking kit, and plastic really opens up options.

I can't find Charonite Ogryns in the web store...

I can't find any Alpha Legion models outside of the Saboteur, on their website. I really wish I'd picked up Exodus when I had the chance.

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
The Heresy community has a competitive scene, but its miniscule in comparison to 40K, because most in the community value HH for the narrative gameplay and personalization and conversion potential for the forces involved. And many others play HH specifically because it isn't dominated by a competitive scene like 40K. We don't want changes every 3 months for the sake of shaking up the meta. We don't want L shaped ruins and massive objective templates covering our tables.

This is what has me scratching my head the most about this new edition. GW must know who makes up the Heresy scene. They must also know what Heresy players have been saying about 2nd Edition, and what they wanted to see. Yet (in terms of rules) their approach is wildly inconsistent. Some of these changes seem to be aimed at providing the higher level of granularity that Heresy players (or at least many of them) tend to enjoy. But changes like the 4 turn limit seem to be aimed more at the competitive side, which seems like a mistake - and is arguably what messed up WH40k. So there's no clear design philosophy. I think it goes back to my earlier comment - by pushing these new editions out this quickly, they simply don't have the time to playtest them property (do GW even playtest any more?).

At least the models are cool. The new Rapier kit is lovely, and while the Saturnine stuff isn't entirely to my taste I am sure the kits will be fun to build and paint.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:

 Snord wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I do hope we see them in plastic. Fantastic looking kit, and plastic really opens up options.

I can't find Charonite Ogryns in the web store...

I can't find any Alpha Legion models outside of the Saboteur, on their website. I really wish I'd picked up Exodus when I had the chance.

Not finding something on GWs aweful current Website doesn't mean it's not hidden there somewhere.
Especially when talking about Alpha Legion.

Knight rules for HH3 are up.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/jd7u7fuv/faction-focus-questoris-familia/


The way the Knight army looks to work is genuinely a good change and that certain Household Ranks unlock auxiliary detachments is very cool.

 Gert wrote:
Knight rules for HH3 are up.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/jd7u7fuv/faction-focus-questoris-familia/


The way the Knight army looks to work is genuinely a good change and that certain Household Ranks unlock auxiliary detachments is very cool.

Honestly beyond the knight being more intelligent than a dreadnought, (because people keep telling me a Dreadnoughts hands are too big to use a control console, it simply must be the pilot is a literal genius to do it with a battlecannon) rules seem good.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:

 Snord wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I do hope we see them in plastic. Fantastic looking kit, and plastic really opens up options.

I can't find Charonite Ogryns in the web store...

I can't find any Alpha Legion models outside of the Saboteur, on their website. I really wish I'd picked up Exodus when I had the chance.

They're all there (yes, I looked at the US store as well), just currently out of stock. The Ogryns are gone.

 Dryaktylus wrote:

 Lathe Biosas wrote:

 Snord wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I do hope we see them in plastic. Fantastic looking kit, and plastic really opens up options.

I can't find Charonite Ogryns in the web store...

I can't find any Alpha Legion models outside of the Saboteur, on their website. I really wish I'd picked up Exodus when I had the chance.

They're all there (yes, I looked at the US store as well), just currently out of stock. The Ogryns are gone.

They've been out of stock for months... I've never spent this long trying to buy a model (Exodus).

But... my 40k Imperial Knights might be making some adjustments and becoming 30k compliant.

Aren't the vows a 40k thing? I mean, didn't they just copypaste them?
Also, I giggled at the unit spotlight, which highlighted the two worst knights in v2. Guess Porphyrion will no longer be usable, to people buy more Asterius