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 lord_blackfang wrote:
GW: "We will never use AI"
Also GW:

Looks like someone is about to be fired....

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I’m assuming it’s a compositing error in Photoshop, rather than AI.

Same. GW is really adamant they don't use AI, and they could genuinely get in legal trouble for lying about it to their investors.

Companies are greedy, untrustworthy things, but in this case they would be just plain stupid to lie about it.

I think this was just a case of crossed photoshop brain-wires.

Abominable Intelligence afflicts GW it seems

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I’m assuming it’s a compositing error in Photoshop, rather than AI.

Same. GW is really adamant they don't use AI, and they could genuinely get in legal trouble for lying about it to their investors.

Companies are greedy, untrustworthy things, but in this case they would be just plain stupid to lie about it.

I think this was just a case of crossed photoshop brain-wires.

Not a Photoshop mistake, lol. The error is done in a too clean of a manner for that.
Pretty pitiful display, GW
From Imperial Armour craftsmanship to AI “polish”.

I’d guess the upper management said “no AI” and everyone who does art agreed to that. But someone probably bent the rules a little, and it was not caught in any of the QA editing steps.

It might have been something as simple as a mock up draft reference that somehow got incorporated. I’m not a digital artist. I’m not going to assume malice.

But that it a big egg on face “woops” and someone is probably going to get in trouble for it.

There is a difference between using AI to generate a full image
And using AI assistant within latest tech-bro software

In given that HH artworks have always been actual pictures of the models as base, someone just used the build in AI feature in Photoshop to do that. (And in some cases it is hard to avoid those things without entirely switching to a very different software)

So technically not generative AI, but just AI assistant.

AI errors aside, it’s an underwhelming boxed set. The release of Mk IV Marines was inevitable, and they look fine, but it would have made a lot more sense to put them in a box with a new vehicle kit - such as a Sicaran Punisher instead of the vanilla version.

 Snord wrote:
AI errors aside, it’s an underwhelming boxed set. The release of Mk IV Marines was inevitable, and they look fine, but it would have made a lot more sense to put them in a box with a new vehicle kit - such as a Sicaran Punisher instead of the vanilla version.

Yeah, but then it might appeal to veteran players and we can't have that.

--

Honestly, it's the world's okayest release. We all knew Mk IV would be out at some point, and this has the same 5 poses, the same force box you'd buy one of at most. It pushed no boundaries, changed no expectations, just was sort of okay.

 Snord wrote:
AI errors aside, it’s an underwhelming boxed set. The release of Mk IV Marines was inevitable, and they look fine, but it would have made a lot more sense to put them in a box with a new vehicle kit - such as a Sicaran Punisher instead of the vanilla version.

As a box it's nice, as a start to collecting point it ain't. It lacks mobility, it lacks a wow factor and more importantly i rekon the price tag will get hiked because "hormus"..

Call me a cynical old git, but I suspect they assumed the hype for revised mkiv was sufficiently high that they would fly off the shelves regardless i.e. no need for a shiny tank. Be interesting to see if they are correct.
Personally I’m a little put off by how chunky they look and given the big box will likely attract an eye-watering price tag, I’ll probably wait until I can pick up a few sprues for kitbashing on eBay further down the line.

Eh, it’s an alternative entry box. That, a big rulebook, liber of your preference and you’ve a small if not strictly legal army to build off.

It’s not one for me. I’m always up for a new Dreadnought to join the farm. But I don’t need another Sicaran, and I’ve a pile of MkII, III and VI infantry to build as it is.

It's an alright entry box. Extra Contemptor makes it unattractive to anyone who's been around since the previous edition, I think. But imagine if there was an Arcus turret in there...

I can see a lot of new players being disappointed when their extremely lucklustre assault marines, mixed loadout Contemptor, and Autocannon Sicaran hit the table though

But I suppose that is the 3rd edition way. Saturnine didn't exactly set anyone up for success

So I showed the six fingered box art to a friend who used to play and said the extra finger is probably a new marine organ, and he said "ah, finally, the index astartes"

 kirotheavenger wrote:
I can see a lot of new players being disappointed when their extremely lucklustre assault marines, mixed loadout Contemptor, and Autocannon Sicaran hit the table though

But I suppose that is the 3rd edition way. Saturnine didn't exactly set anyone up for success

I've had a lot of success with Saturnine, things try to crash into them and just get trapped for a turn by the durability. Playing Shattered Legions means they can (once per game) dial up to T7 when charged. Assault marines feel like pool noodles but I think they're really meant to tag a line squad and prevent scoring rather than murder directly. The game only being 4 turns incentivizes temporary setbacks like that

PoorGravitasHandling wrote:

 kirotheavenger wrote:
I can see a lot of new players being disappointed when their extremely lucklustre assault marines, mixed loadout Contemptor, and Autocannon Sicaran hit the table though

But I suppose that is the 3rd edition way. Saturnine didn't exactly set anyone up for success

I've had a lot of success with Saturnine, things try to crash into them and just get trapped for a turn by the durability. Playing Shattered Legions means they can (once per game) dial up to T7 when charged. Assault marines feel like pool noodles but I think they're really meant to tag a line squad and prevent scoring rather than murder directly. The game only being 4 turns incentivizes temporary setbacks like that

With their blistering speed they should struggle to tag anyone, and with the Disengage option locking down an enemy unit is essentially not a thing.
I guess they do have the numbers (or specifically lack thereof) that they could routinely 'lose' to a Tactical Squad if armed with double plasma or something. But then you still have the major hurdle of getting there in the first place, and they just don't have the bite to ever get close to making back their points.

I've seen multiple players all starry eyed buy their Saturnine box and set it on the table only to find they've killed nothing, blown up their own veteran squad, and the tactical suggestion on how to squeeze life out of their army is "yeah it's all a damp squib, buy everything again". They rarely come back.

 Snrub wrote:
Seems GW finally got the message about not fething with how the established armour looks. Just too bad Mk's II and III had to suffer such indignities as they did. But I'm glad to see MkIV looks as it should for those who favour it.

It might be less fethed than II & III, but I wouldn't purchase these. There are all sorts of design elements that are out of kilter with the prior plastic versions let alone the resin ones.

What they've done to the assault squad is tantamount to a crime.

 Snord wrote:
AI errors aside, it’s an underwhelming boxed set. The release of Mk IV Marines was inevitable, and they look fine, but it would have made a lot more sense to put them in a box with a new vehicle kit - such as a Sicaran Punisher instead of the vanilla version.

Can't have the box set be too good. The Furibundus Dreadnought and Sicaran Arcus will be used to pad out a future launch box instead.

 Ashiraya wrote:
The Furibundus Dreadnought and Sicaran Arcus will be used to pad out a future launch box instead.

You mean will be the draw of a future launch box, potentially padded out with Mk4 marines

Something like that, yes.

 kirotheavenger wrote:

PoorGravitasHandling wrote:

 kirotheavenger wrote:
I can see a lot of new players being disappointed when their extremely lucklustre assault marines, mixed loadout Contemptor, and Autocannon Sicaran hit the table though

But I suppose that is the 3rd edition way. Saturnine didn't exactly set anyone up for success

I've had a lot of success with Saturnine, things try to crash into them and just get trapped for a turn by the durability. Playing Shattered Legions means they can (once per game) dial up to T7 when charged. Assault marines feel like pool noodles but I think they're really meant to tag a line squad and prevent scoring rather than murder directly. The game only being 4 turns incentivizes temporary setbacks like that

With their blistering speed they should struggle to tag anyone, and with the Disengage option locking down an enemy unit is essentially not a thing.
I guess they do have the numbers (or specifically lack thereof) that they could routinely 'lose' to a Tactical Squad if armed with double plasma or something. But then you still have the major hurdle of getting there in the first place, and they just don't have the bite to ever get close to making back their points.

I've seen multiple players all starry eyed buy their Saturnine box and set it on the table only to find they've killed nothing, blown up their own veteran squad, and the tactical suggestion on how to squeeze life out of their army is "yeah it's all a damp squib, buy everything again". They rarely come back.

Why tag a unit with them? Their shooting is better than the melee. That's why someone will tag them, usually they're right up front for me slinging plasma in barrage, get tagged by a retinue unit, don't perish outright, and then the other unit is usually sitting there as a real melee threat blunders over to bail out the bait saturnine unit.

Agreed on disintegrator weapons, feels like they're trying to be 40K plasma guns but less likely to wound, and it rarely works.

PoorGravitasHandling wrote:

 kirotheavenger wrote:

PoorGravitasHandling wrote:

 kirotheavenger wrote:
I can see a lot of new players being disappointed when their extremely lucklustre assault marines, mixed loadout Contemptor, and Autocannon Sicaran hit the table though

But I suppose that is the 3rd edition way. Saturnine didn't exactly set anyone up for success

I've had a lot of success with Saturnine, things try to crash into them and just get trapped for a turn by the durability. Playing Shattered Legions means they can (once per game) dial up to T7 when charged. Assault marines feel like pool noodles but I think they're really meant to tag a line squad and prevent scoring rather than murder directly. The game only being 4 turns incentivizes temporary setbacks like that

With their blistering speed they should struggle to tag anyone, and with the Disengage option locking down an enemy unit is essentially not a thing.
I guess they do have the numbers (or specifically lack thereof) that they could routinely 'lose' to a Tactical Squad if armed with double plasma or something. But then you still have the major hurdle of getting there in the first place, and they just don't have the bite to ever get close to making back their points.

I've seen multiple players all starry eyed buy their Saturnine box and set it on the table only to find they've killed nothing, blown up their own veteran squad, and the tactical suggestion on how to squeeze life out of their army is "yeah it's all a damp squib, buy everything again". They rarely come back.

Why tag a unit with them? Their shooting is better than the melee. That's why someone will tag them, usually they're right up front for me slinging plasma in barrage, get tagged by a retinue unit, don't perish outright, and then the other unit is usually sitting there as a real melee threat blunders over to bail out the bait saturnine unit.

Agreed on disintegrator weapons, feels like they're trying to be 40K plasma guns but less likely to wound, and it rarely works.

Kiro was referring to Assaults with that sentence.

I still have 40-50 MkIV that need to be built so im in no hurry to get any of these.

If this is what they call a HUGE release....I'd really hate to see what constitutes a small one.

Was kinda hoping for Outriders, Speeder Protei, of maybe I dunno a fire/storm raptor kit that doesn't blow

PoorGravitasHandling wrote:

 kirotheavenger wrote:

PoorGravitasHandling wrote:

 kirotheavenger wrote:
I can see a lot of new players being disappointed when their extremely lucklustre assault marines, mixed loadout Contemptor, and Autocannon Sicaran hit the table though

But I suppose that is the 3rd edition way. Saturnine didn't exactly set anyone up for success

I've had a lot of success with Saturnine, things try to crash into them and just get trapped for a turn by the durability. Playing Shattered Legions means they can (once per game) dial up to T7 when charged. Assault marines feel like pool noodles but I think they're really meant to tag a line squad and prevent scoring rather than murder directly. The game only being 4 turns incentivizes temporary setbacks like that

With their blistering speed they should struggle to tag anyone, and with the Disengage option locking down an enemy unit is essentially not a thing.
I guess they do have the numbers (or specifically lack thereof) that they could routinely 'lose' to a Tactical Squad if armed with double plasma or something. But then you still have the major hurdle of getting there in the first place, and they just don't have the bite to ever get close to making back their points.

I've seen multiple players all starry eyed buy their Saturnine box and set it on the table only to find they've killed nothing, blown up their own veteran squad, and the tactical suggestion on how to squeeze life out of their army is "yeah it's all a damp squib, buy everything again". They rarely come back.

Why tag a unit with them? Their shooting is better than the melee. That's why someone will tag them, usually they're right up front for me slinging plasma in barrage, get tagged by a retinue unit, don't perish outright, and then the other unit is usually sitting there as a real melee threat blunders over to bail out the bait saturnine unit.

Agreed on disintegrator weapons, feels like they're trying to be 40K plasma guns but less likely to wound, and it rarely works.

I think I misunderstood, I thought you were saying your Saturnine were good at tying down scoring units.

But on rereading I think you were referring to two separate clauses?
Saturnine are good because things charge them and fail to kill them.
Then, separately, Assault Marines are good because they tie down line units?

But then I'm afraid I still must disagree.
Saturnine are tough but they're not *that* tough. Anything that can kill Cataphractii can kill them. Sure Assault Marines would struggle - but that's an Assault Marine problem, not a Saturnine win.
I've never known Saturnine to pull anything like their weight. Maybe if your opponent is really bad at spreading out so your blast templates can do a number. But an expensive unit that relies on enemy-error to work is a bad unit.

And Assault Marines have all the problems tying up enemy squads I mentioned. They're about the worst for it it's possible to be as they have just barely enough combat power to win, but not enough to win by any significant margin (or to do much useful damage). That's the worst case scenario for a melee unit. They don't even have the grace of having Line to score the objective afterwards.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
It's an alright entry box. Extra Contemptor makes it unattractive to anyone who's been around since the previous edition, I think. But imagine if there was an Arcus turret in there...

Don't kinkshame. I'll take every dreadnought I can get my hands on.

I would agree, but I am up to six contemptors now (four of which are painted, I am working on it) and I really feel like I'd rather have a Deredeo or something.

I kinda miss the half-leg bonding studs on these, but I suppose we'll get that with MKV so we can mix and match a bit.

I am a little surprised at yet another assault squad, I was half-expecting either Outrider or Recon squad to be the bespoke MKIV thing. Still could be of course, but yeah.

MKIV - Fantastiche! Not buying the box, but will def pick up both the tacs and assault kit later

 Ashiraya wrote:
I would agree, but I am up to six contemptors now (four of which are painted, I am working on it) and I really feel like I'd rather have a Deredeo or something.

Rookie Numbers!!!!!

At this point I think Command squad kits for MK2 and MK4 would make sense as the next marine release. Maybe also update the Praetor & Chaplin kit as well? Those chaps are looking a little squashed next to the updated squads they're leading...