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 Togusa wrote:

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:

 Togusa wrote:

 Geifer wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
2) Is it just me or do the paintjobs look oddly flat and not at all Contrasty?

The reds and yellows seem to be formulated for good coverage above anything, which I suspect is a way of making these colors work in the first place. As far as I'm aware not all of the current Contrast paints produce equal results either. It's kind of important to learn the specific properties of each paint in order to know how to achieve the effect you want.

But as has been said from the moment Contrast paints were out in the wild, GW's one thick coat marketing doesn't actually do Contrast paints justice.

I really wish there was an actual path to learning how to paint models. A lot of the "teaching" tools GW provides don't really give you any real depth or examples. It took me three months to actually find out what an edge highlight even was, and that there were multiple types of them. Another big one is just "how does color work?" because it can be almost damn hard to figure out how to layer and highlight and with which of the 500 colors available to the painter. These range updates are nice, these paints look super fun and I may end up getting some for my HH army to brighten them up. But I really do wish there was more help available for the paintingly challenged out there. I'd paint a lot more if I could actually figure out what I am doing in the first place.

There are literally tons of people making videos explaining these things. What else do you want?

Some [Me specifically] people have trouble learning from videos. You can't stop a video and ask for clarification. Many videos don't actually show the whole process or skip steps.

What I'd like to see is official GW classes offered at GW stores, multi-session set ups where you could go and learn all the basics from a human standing right next to you, where you could safely experiment and learn and get feedback and advice.

That would require more overhead in the form of an employee to host the class.

Moreover, and at least in Florida where I have the most experience with the few GW stores that are here, is GWs recruitment strategy seems to be "disinterested 20 something's who were hired to man the store and check out product."

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
*quickly buys one of each Gloss Paint... and a Sentinel, as those are going away soon as well*

BrianDavion wrote:
ohh feth they're discontinuing sigsmund clear yellow? damn and I was using that for a glaze on my heresy era Imp fists.. they REAAAALLY want me to use Iyaden yellow for a yellow glaze

No they want you to buy the new "Imperial Fist" Contrast paint and glaze with that.

and iun fairness I will buy a bottle to experiment with,

Everyone should be using Reaper MSP and/or ProAcryl paints anyway.

 TalonZahn wrote:
Everyone should be using Reaper MSP and/or ProAcryl paints anyway.

Different paint for different purposes, and no one company has a monopoly on all the colours. Reaper MSP is kinda hard to get (UK) but I have a handful. I have most of the ProAcryl range. I also have a ton of vallejo, moderate army painter and GW too.

I'm painting my world eaters atm, and have so far used stynylrez primer, tamiya ocean grey, FW white ink, army painter blue flux through the airbrush, and the next stage will be chipping with various pro acryl. Glorious vallejo metal color for the metallics. Then finally contrast and speed paint for the guns, leather and grenades, Then some oil washes. And probably some good old fashion layer paint for the lenses.

Then onto the bases, which will use a similar eclectic mix across ranges.

Pro acryl make lovely, lovely base paints with ludicrously good coverage, and can be thinned to layers. But I hate mixing paints to get the right shade and do triads, especially as repeating it is a pain on an army scale, and pro acryl does not have a wide range of colours. I love that I don't have to do that any more, and that paints like Contrast exist for the organic bits.

Can someone tell me what the difference between Imperial Fist and Bad Moon Yellow is?

one is for AoS, the other one for 40k?

Is it just me do most of these new contrasts not have much, err, contrast?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Can someone tell me what the difference between Imperial Fist and Bad Moon Yellow is?

It's harder to absolutely sure without a side by side, but to me Imperial Fists looks lighter and brighter and Bad Moon Yellow looks deeper and to have more of a "yellow gold" hue. I'm quite intrigued by the Bad Moon Yellow, the Fists not so much.

Nice to see some new contrast paints coming, and I'm looking forward to the Mortarion Grime wash. There are four or five of the new contrasts I am interested in and want to check out some reviews on when they come out.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Can someone tell me what the difference between Imperial Fist and Bad Moon Yellow is?

I suspect it'll be more apparent when we actually get it, Bad Moon Yellow looks SLIGHTLY brighter

I am sort of surprised the Dry range has survived to this day. Anecdotally, they're not very popular and their unique consistency means they're always a hair's breadth away from turning unusable. That being said, they must be decent for something.

Myself i like helion green which i use for gloomspite bases. Could do with less dry version though.

Edit: gauss blaster green might be it. Got to try.

I've gone through three pots of Necron Compound. Dumb name. Great paint. Hexos Palesun is a nifty one as well. Great pale yellow for highlighting.

And looking at it, Imperial Fist appears paler than Bad Moon Yellow. I guess that means the Bad Moon one might be better for me.

I need a good yellow for Iyanden, you see, and for the armour plates on my 'Nids (I'm going really old skool for them - yellow chitin, red bodies!).

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
I am sort of surprised the Dry range has survived to this day. Anecdotally, they're not very popular and their unique consistency means they're always a hair's breadth away from turning unusable. That being said, they must be decent for something.

They were always a terrible idea, even though it's called "drybrushing" you don't need or want the paint to be super dry, that's before you get into the problems with them going bad because GW pots suck.

I believe the image at the end of article has one model for each of the Contrast paints, including the current range.



Based on the image it looks like the yellows are from darkest to lightest:
-Nazreg yellow
-Iyanden yellow
-Iron jawz yellow
-Imperial fists yellow
- Bad moon yellow

The last two don't appear to provide much contrast indeed but the end result looks really smooth.

The word on the street is that influencers have already received their samples. I expect there to be tons of review material once the embargo is lifted.

 kodos wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 kodos wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
Ugh, my DG paint scheme is based on Agrax Eathshade Gloss...
Are there any equivalents from other companies?

Army Painter Strong Tone would come to my mind

You mean the dip? It's a very different substance, the wash variant however is matte as far as I know, so not a good replacement if so.

the Ink

ok, there is a Wash, a Quickshade and an Ink that all of the same name, should have been more detailed

I will give a try, thank you.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dysartes wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
Ugh, my DG paint scheme is based on Agrax Eathshade Gloss...

Are there any equivalents from other companies?

I mean, you could always pick up a couple of pots now, while it is still around - how much more DG stuff do you have around that needs painting, Jid?

Not that much currently, just a few plague marines, hellbrutes and MBH. I'm more worried about future purchases, like new releases or if I want to get duplicates of things. I apply the wash fairly thickly over two layers of white (possibly one with the new spray?) to have it look like a smeary oil film, for example my landraider took a third of a bottle all by its own.

The pots being unusably bad is overstated a fair bit. I keep a large bottle of Vallejo airbrush thinner on my paint desk, and occasionally throw a few splashes into pots that have started to go bad, but the majority are still great. I think I'm down to my last three or four 90s hex-pots so there's always some attrition, of course (my set of 90s washes and glazes are still perfectly usable, though).

I'm finding I also have paints going bad in dropper bottles, and of course it doesn't take much to clog those nozzles either - some bottles are prone to paint bubbles in the nozzle causing seepage which indirectly leads to clogging.

 Togusa wrote:

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:

 Togusa wrote:

 Geifer wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
2) Is it just me or do the paintjobs look oddly flat and not at all Contrasty?

The reds and yellows seem to be formulated for good coverage above anything, which I suspect is a way of making these colors work in the first place. As far as I'm aware not all of the current Contrast paints produce equal results either. It's kind of important to learn the specific properties of each paint in order to know how to achieve the effect you want.

But as has been said from the moment Contrast paints were out in the wild, GW's one thick coat marketing doesn't actually do Contrast paints justice.

I really wish there was an actual path to learning how to paint models. A lot of the "teaching" tools GW provides don't really give you any real depth or examples. It took me three months to actually find out what an edge highlight even was, and that there were multiple types of them. Another big one is just "how does color work?" because it can be almost damn hard to figure out how to layer and highlight and with which of the 500 colors available to the painter. These range updates are nice, these paints look super fun and I may end up getting some for my HH army to brighten them up. But I really do wish there was more help available for the paintingly challenged out there. I'd paint a lot more if I could actually figure out what I am doing in the first place.

There are literally tons of people making videos explaining these things. What else do you want?

Some [Me specifically] people have trouble learning from videos. You can't stop a video and ask for clarification. Many videos don't actually show the whole process or skip steps.

What I'd like to see is official GW classes offered at GW stores, multi-session set ups where you could go and learn all the basics from a human standing right next to you, where you could safely experiment and learn and get feedback and advice.

I can't see any feasible way that they could offer anything other than a basic, base, shade, layer system tutorial, simply due to time, never mind that many gw employees aren't actually that great painters themselves. Plenty of higher standard painters offer classes, but can be pricey. I find the best way is to just do. Experiment, see what works and what doesnt, adjust, set targets. Read articles and watch videos, examine works you like and see the techniques used, try to mimic them. This is the best way to learn in my opinion. It takes time but is worth the graft.

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
I am sort of surprised the Dry range has survived to this day. Anecdotally, they're not very popular and their unique consistency means they're always a hair's breadth away from turning unusable. That being said, they must be decent for something.

When the Dry range came out it was pretty much the star of the new line, I'm sure you'll still be able to find videos of people talking about how great it was at the time. I suspect the issue is with it drying out - I don't generally have an issue with the Citadel pots drying out, but paints becoming a bit thicker over time does happen, and when these paints become a "bit" thicker they're basically unusable.

deano2099 wrote:

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
I am sort of surprised the Dry range has survived to this day. Anecdotally, they're not very popular and their unique consistency means they're always a hair's breadth away from turning unusable. That being said, they must be decent for something.

When the Dry range came out it was pretty much the star of the new line, I'm sure you'll still be able to find videos of people talking about how great it was at the time. I suspect the issue is with it drying out - I don't generally have an issue with the Citadel pots drying out, but paints becoming a bit thicker over time does happen, and when these paints become a "bit" thicker they're basically unusable.

My Ryza Rust is one of my longest living paint pots, mostly because it doesn't have any way of getting gunked under the lip so it retains a perfect seal (or as near to as it can)

Nice... I came to appreciate Contrast paints a lot and some of those look pretty promissing.

deano2099 wrote:

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
I am sort of surprised the Dry range has survived to this day. Anecdotally, they're not very popular and their unique consistency means they're always a hair's breadth away from turning unusable. That being said, they must be decent for something.

When the Dry range came out it was pretty much the star of the new line, I'm sure you'll still be able to find videos of people talking about how great it was at the time. I suspect the issue is with it drying out - I don't generally have an issue with the Citadel pots drying out, but paints becoming a bit thicker over time does happen, and when these paints become a "bit" thicker they're basically unusable.

I hadn't realized they came out 10 years ago. Egads.

The more I think about it, the more I want to abandon Horus Heresy for now and dig up my mostly unbuilt Tzeentch Arcanites army from the Pile instead. I tried to paint few models couple of months ago but quickly realized that the current range of Contrast paints doesn't have enough vibrant colours to make your eyes bleed.

I should start building so that I have a metric ton of Brimstone Horrors, Flamers and other goodies good to go as soon as the new colours hit the shelves.

So, nothing new afterall, just more paint tones.

Time wil tell if the new white spray is any good, have not used one for 4 years as they completely drown the details of the models compared to the black.

 Togusa wrote:

 Geifer wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
2) Is it just me or do the paintjobs look oddly flat and not at all Contrasty?

The reds and yellows seem to be formulated for good coverage above anything, which I suspect is a way of making these colors work in the first place. As far as I'm aware not all of the current Contrast paints produce equal results either. It's kind of important to learn the specific properties of each paint in order to know how to achieve the effect you want.

But as has been said from the moment Contrast paints were out in the wild, GW's one thick coat marketing doesn't actually do Contrast paints justice.

I really wish there was an actual path to learning how to paint models. A lot of the "teaching" tools GW provides don't really give you any real depth or examples. It took me three months to actually find out what an edge highlight even was, and that there were multiple types of them. Another big one is just "how does color work?" because it can be almost damn hard to figure out how to layer and highlight and with which of the 500 colors available to the painter. These range updates are nice, these paints look super fun and I may end up getting some for my HH army to brighten them up. But I really do wish there was more help available for the paintingly challenged out there. I'd paint a lot more if I could actually figure out what I am doing in the first place.

they've done a pretty good job for me, not perfect but I feel comfortable doing basic table top standard.

Hopefully GW have sent some samples of these out to various painting YouTubers.

They did a much (much) better job of showing the usage and limitations of the existing Contrast Range than GW did.

In particular it will be interesting to see people who are willing to mix it with contrast medium show comparisons of the new darker blues and purples, because they were by far the worst paints in the existing range.

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:

 Togusa wrote:

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:

 Togusa wrote:

 Geifer wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
2) Is it just me or do the paintjobs look oddly flat and not at all Contrasty?

The reds and yellows seem to be formulated for good coverage above anything, which I suspect is a way of making these colors work in the first place. As far as I'm aware not all of the current Contrast paints produce equal results either. It's kind of important to learn the specific properties of each paint in order to know how to achieve the effect you want.

But as has been said from the moment Contrast paints were out in the wild, GW's one thick coat marketing doesn't actually do Contrast paints justice.

I really wish there was an actual path to learning how to paint models. A lot of the "teaching" tools GW provides don't really give you any real depth or examples. It took me three months to actually find out what an edge highlight even was, and that there were multiple types of them. Another big one is just "how does color work?" because it can be almost damn hard to figure out how to layer and highlight and with which of the 500 colors available to the painter. These range updates are nice, these paints look super fun and I may end up getting some for my HH army to brighten them up. But I really do wish there was more help available for the paintingly challenged out there. I'd paint a lot more if I could actually figure out what I am doing in the first place.

There are literally tons of people making videos explaining these things. What else do you want?

Some [Me specifically] people have trouble learning from videos. You can't stop a video and ask for clarification. Many videos don't actually show the whole process or skip steps.

What I'd like to see is official GW classes offered at GW stores, multi-session set ups where you could go and learn all the basics from a human standing right next to you, where you could safely experiment and learn and get feedback and advice.

I can't see any feasible way that they could offer anything other than a basic, base, shade, layer system tutorial, simply due to time, never mind that many gw employees aren't actually that great painters themselves. Plenty of higher standard painters offer classes, but can be pricey. I find the best way is to just do. Experiment, see what works and what doesnt, adjust, set targets. Read articles and watch videos, examine works you like and see the techniques used, try to mimic them. This is the best way to learn in my opinion. It takes time but is worth the graft.

I don't think classes are the answer, given how few stores they run, especially in the US.

They could do a lot more with video. You can get a lot of the basic techniques by watching the "how to paint a _______" videos, but a collection that really broke down the basic, like edge highlighting, with more time spent showing the do's and don'ts, macro shots, explanations of how to hold your brush, etc. They have a "master class" under Warhammer+ that did a good job of showing how to wet-blend and talked through the principles in decent detail, but that stuff should be free to draw new people in IMHO. Darren Latham's now deleted videos were the best example, you got to see almost the entire paint job and he provided a lot of good pro-tips, e.g. "paint the crotch webbing now, because if you don't you'll likely screw it up when you paint the white armor plates."

It's easy to forget that coming into the hobby from a cold start is intimidating. There's a 300 page book to read, $300 of models and materials you need to buy, and 30+ hours of building, painting, and reading before you're able to play a game. Anything that streamlines the process is helpful in bringing new blood into the hobby.

The problem with any hands-on skill is that there are always going to be little bits that get left out of any instructional material produced. Video and written form can certainly go further into depth and some teachers have a greater appreciation for highlighting all the smaller steps in a process, not just the big ones.

Plus there's things like simple teaching repetition - eg Duncan's famous "two thin coats" is a fantastic example of where he'd just use the phrase over and over each time in a video, reinforcing the previous content.



However comprehensive guides are rare to get; take a lot of time to produce and still have a flaw in that they are passive not active teaching.
Actually having someone watch you paint, watch you go through the process is often essential and at the very least speeds up a lot of learning. Especially because they can spot you doing things wrong and correct them before they become a habit. They will also spot things you do wrong that you often won't see yourself.
A great one would be loading the brush, too much or too little paint is bad and its very easy to load one way or the other constantly and never realise that the problems it creates with your method.

Videos and books also tend to overlook waiting for paint to dry. Yes they'll say "wait for it to dry" but actually reinforcing when you need to do that; how long you should wait; what it looks like when its dry; etc.... When not to do it etc...
Again its an area someone could be messing up with a lot and not realise they are doing it.



I know GW stores in the UK are often good for basic teaching at the very least as many of their staff are often more into the hobby. I know overseas hiring policies were different and some regions were much more "you're a salesman only - sell, push sell!"

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
I am sort of surprised the Dry range has survived to this day. Anecdotally, they're not very popular and their unique consistency means they're always a hair's breadth away from turning unusable. That being said, they must be decent for something.

I hope they don't go anywhere. Ryza Rust and Hexos Palesun are how I highlight my Blood Angels.

I think the trouble there is more advanced/detailed tutorials already exist, being incredibly well catered for by the wider community.

In-store stuff isn’t about making you the next Golden Daemon Winner. It’s about the basics. Likewise GW’s videos are about achievable results. Nothing too complex. No additional gubbins required. No thinners, flow improvers etc.

If someone takes to it as a hobby unto itself, it’s not hard for them to find stuff on YouTube to help them develop ever further.

This is something my Well Good Painter friend and I have chatted about Ad Nauseum. I’ve never really got on with painting, because when I started out I didn’t have much in the way of guides or teachers. But watching Duncan’s videos for GW, even though he didn’t exactly teach how to hold a brush, you could see how he holds his etc. Its like the difference between being told “and now blend that in” and being shown someone actually blending in real time.

It’s true not all tutorials are equal. Some are, for my tastes, way too complex, involving mixing up custom colours and a level of detail I frankly will never, ever be bothered with. Others have pretty poor camera positioning, so we’re again back to more being told what’s going on rather than showing.

But there’s enough of them out there that I’m pretty confident everyone will find tutorials to their own taste. And that very variety isn’t something GW can easily provide on their own.

So let GW do what they do best - roping people in in the first place, showing them basic to moderate stuff, then go their own way as they will.

 flaherty wrote:

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:

 Togusa wrote:

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:

 Togusa wrote:

 Geifer wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
2) Is it just me or do the paintjobs look oddly flat and not at all Contrasty?

The reds and yellows seem to be formulated for good coverage above anything, which I suspect is a way of making these colors work in the first place. As far as I'm aware not all of the current Contrast paints produce equal results either. It's kind of important to learn the specific properties of each paint in order to know how to achieve the effect you want.

But as has been said from the moment Contrast paints were out in the wild, GW's one thick coat marketing doesn't actually do Contrast paints justice.

I really wish there was an actual path to learning how to paint models. A lot of the "teaching" tools GW provides don't really give you any real depth or examples. It took me three months to actually find out what an edge highlight even was, and that there were multiple types of them. Another big one is just "how does color work?" because it can be almost damn hard to figure out how to layer and highlight and with which of the 500 colors available to the painter. These range updates are nice, these paints look super fun and I may end up getting some for my HH army to brighten them up. But I really do wish there was more help available for the paintingly challenged out there. I'd paint a lot more if I could actually figure out what I am doing in the first place.

There are literally tons of people making videos explaining these things. What else do you want?

Some [Me specifically] people have trouble learning from videos. You can't stop a video and ask for clarification. Many videos don't actually show the whole process or skip steps.

What I'd like to see is official GW classes offered at GW stores, multi-session set ups where you could go and learn all the basics from a human standing right next to you, where you could safely experiment and learn and get feedback and advice.

I can't see any feasible way that they could offer anything other than a basic, base, shade, layer system tutorial, simply due to time, never mind that many gw employees aren't actually that great painters themselves. Plenty of higher standard painters offer classes, but can be pricey. I find the best way is to just do. Experiment, see what works and what doesnt, adjust, set targets. Read articles and watch videos, examine works you like and see the techniques used, try to mimic them. This is the best way to learn in my opinion. It takes time but is worth the graft.

I don't think classes are the answer, given how few stores they run, especially in the US.

They could do a lot more with video. You can get a lot of the basic techniques by watching the "how to paint a _______" videos, but a collection that really broke down the basic, like edge highlighting, with more time spent showing the do's and don'ts, macro shots, explanations of how to hold your brush, etc. They have a "master class" under Warhammer+ that did a good job of showing how to wet-blend and talked through the principles in decent detail, but that stuff should be free to draw new people in IMHO. Darren Latham's now deleted videos were the best example, you got to see almost the entire paint job and he provided a lot of good pro-tips, e.g. "paint the crotch webbing now, because if you don't you'll likely screw it up when you paint the white armor plates."

It's easy to forget that coming into the hobby from a cold start is intimidating. There's a 300 page book to read, $300 of models and materials you need to buy, and 30+ hours of building, painting, and reading before you're able to play a game. Anything that streamlines the process is helpful in bringing new blood into the hobby.

I've moaned about this in the past... miniature painting tutorials don't teach you how to paint in general, they just teach you how to paint X specific model. GW tutorials are some of the worst for it IMO.

Most of what I've learned about painting is trial and error over many years, but I could probably teach someone else in a couple of days.

I think miniature painting tutorials generally focus on how to get a specific model on the table using specific paints and specific methods, so miniature painters who don't have an art background miss simple things like creating volumes, diffuse lighting vs specular lighting, value vs colour, how ambient light affects colours (so how to paint models so they look like they exist within a certain environment), how to desaturate colours to make them look more realistic and uniform, utilising different types of contrast like value contrast, colour contrast and warmth contrast, using different varnish types to accentuate lighting, materials, textures (opposed to the simplistic idea of "spray it all matte"), a really important one I think people don't learn is shortcuts and simplifications so if you're painting a whole army what can be done to speed things up, what different artistic interpretations exist and how they can be achieved (like realistic vs enhancing effects, or maybe simplifying certain effects for greater impact).

Things like the intro to art 101 of "how to paint a sphere vs a cone vs a cube vs a cylinder" or "how to paint leather vs fabric vs skin vs metal" or "how to mix colours" is something wargamers might not find out until they've already been painting for years.

I only really started learning that stuff when I started watching canvas oil painting tutorials rather than miniature painting ones.