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 Thariinye wrote:
They haven't been released yet - in fact none of the revealed new CSM models have been released generally. That's the Dark Commune, the new Cultists + Accursed Cultists, the new Possessed, or even the base CSM + Kill Team Sprue (those guys should be dropping for preorder this Saturday). The new DP is probably coming out near the end of this year with the AoS Slaves to Darkness book (presumably with a revised 40k datasheet) and we heard rumors of new Bikers but those models haven't even been revealed yet.

It's the only codex in 9th AFAIK where the models weren't at least available for pre-order. Honestly, this has been one of their worst codex launches of the edition, the only reason it's not worse is due to a fairly mature and well established player base. A lot of chaos players can probably field relatively decent proxies for most of the new units, at the very least.

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 Thariinye wrote:
They haven't been released yet - in fact none of the revealed new CSM models have been released generally. That's the Dark Commune, the new Cultists + Accursed Cultists, the new Possessed, or even the base CSM + Kill Team Sprue (those guys should be dropping for preorder this Saturday). The new DP is probably coming out near the end of this year with the AoS Slaves to Darkness book (presumably with a revised 40k datasheet) and we heard rumors of new Bikers but those models haven't even been revealed yet.

Apparently one of the guys doing rule reviews (I think it was Auspex) said that he was surprised that Huron wasn't released, which means he had info on it.

While there are Huron Rumours due to a Rumour Engine that could be his Claw, I am quite sure the Content Creator you mean has adressed something else:

The current (and ancient) Sculpt was rotated out from the Shop about a half year ago. It was not rotated back in to the range, although Huron received an reworked Profile in the new book. So the CC meant propably the rerelease of the old sculpt. Considering GW‘s ,No Model no rules‘ policy this is really weird

Edit: What are so far your experiences with different Legions? I has a game vs EC recently and the Fight First as well as additional rend were quite an issue when approaching them in Meele. I am also undecided whether to build mine as World Eaters or Red Corsairs. The WE trait consists of only 1 Perk while Corsairs bring 2 very solid perks and a broad access to unit and mark selection. Both factions bring usefull strats and relics. To be honest WE feel a bit lackluster: No access to the good psychic phase sheningans of the faction, limited anti psychic phase shenanigans. Biggest Stand Out are Khorne Berserker as Battleline

You're going to have a bad experience with World Eaters until they get their actual codex.

charles_the_dead_lizzard wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 Thariinye wrote:
They haven't been released yet - in fact none of the revealed new CSM models have been released generally. That's the Dark Commune, the new Cultists + Accursed Cultists, the new Possessed, or even the base CSM + Kill Team Sprue (those guys should be dropping for preorder this Saturday). The new DP is probably coming out near the end of this year with the AoS Slaves to Darkness book (presumably with a revised 40k datasheet) and we heard rumors of new Bikers but those models haven't even been revealed yet.

Apparently one of the guys doing rule reviews (I think it was Auspex) said that he was surprised that Huron wasn't released, which means he had info on it.

While there are Huron Rumours due to a Rumour Engine that could be his Claw, I am quite sure the Content Creator you mean has adressed something else:

The current (and ancient) Sculpt was rotated out from the Shop about a half year ago. It was not rotated back in to the range, although Huron received an reworked Profile in the new book. So the CC meant propably the rerelease of the old sculpt. Considering GW‘s ,No Model no rules‘ policy this is really weird

Edit: What are so far your experiences with different Legions? I has a game vs EC recently and the Fight First as well as additional rend were quite an issue when approaching them in Meele. I am also undecided whether to build mine as World Eaters or Red Corsairs. The WE trait consists of only 1 Perk while Corsairs bring 2 very solid perks and a broad access to unit and mark selection. Both factions bring usefull strats and relics. To be honest WE feel a bit lackluster: No access to the good psychic phase sheningans of the faction, limited anti psychic phase shenanigans. Biggest Stand Out are Khorne Berserker as Battleline

Personally I don't think WE will be very good until they get their own codex later this year or early next year. If I was you I would probably do RC for now. Also think about Word Bearers. I am using WB now for my melee focuses army and the legion trait and relics are money. You would think the MW protection is situational but it has been good in every game with mitigating explosions, perils etc, and it is great when the opponent brings a mortal wound heavy army like GK or TS. The re-reroll hits first turn is really good as well.

EviscerationPlague wrote:
You're going to have a bad experience with World Eaters until they get their actual codex.

Come now. It's perfectly reasonable to assume that the bad experiences will continue even after the Codex comes out.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:
You're going to have a bad experience with World Eaters until they get their actual codex.

Come now. It's perfectly reasonable to assume that the bad experiences will continue even after the Codex comes out.

I mean you're not wrong, since they're going to 100% lose their Obliterators and other shooting units.

What’s the best way to handle walkers and other vehicles? I know the general answer is “punch them with possessed”, but it doesn’t seem like we have a reliable armor deleter at a good price point.

Rivener wrote:
What’s the best way to handle walkers and other vehicles? I know the general answer is “punch them with possessed”, but it doesn’t seem like we have a reliable armor deleter at a good price point.

I like Maulerfiends. Not sure how good they'd be at this role, but I like them.

Rivener wrote:
What’s the best way to handle walkers and other vehicles? I know the general answer is “punch them with possessed”, but it doesn’t seem like we have a reliable armor deleter at a good price point.

We have a wide selection of units that can punch vehicles to death, but I'm not seeing anything efficient for shooting them at long range. Really our only units focused entirely on shooting (and not paying points for other things) are havocs and predators, and they're... okay. I think we get our anti-tank firepower most efficiently when it's tacked onto units that are also doing other things like MM helbrutes, bikers or terminators with combi-meltas, noise marine blastmasters, etc. So my plan is to take some of those and pick off vehicles where I can, but that the real answer to any vehicle-heavy list has to be getting into melee with them. I might put MoS on my disco lord so he can do 8 damage with his magma cutter (via Murderous Perfection), but that's only barely not melee.

We have Oblits, Land Raiders, Vindicators, Defilers, Forgefiends for lonf range anti tank.

Vindicators are too randumb with the shots. I also don't think Defilers carry a lot of guns for the cost.

 p5freak wrote:
We have Oblits, Land Raiders, Vindicators, Defilers, Forgefiends for lonf range anti tank.

I really want defilers to be a thing but I feel like their output is pretty meh for how much they cost. Would have been cool if they got the soulshatter for their lascannons. Kinda funny tho. I dont think that lascannons are even in the kit so why do they have the option.

I like oblits cause I feel like they are more durable with buffs and can be rezzed in a pinch.

Vindicators and Oblits still only have 24" range.

If you playing EC MSU emp children with blastmasters is the ticket for sure.

I do like what was brought up earlier with full squad of bikes with tzeench and full rerolls. as a anti everything option.

Honestly like I wonder if you can make a list with a few of these elements for a very shooty and aggressive comp. Noise marines Tz Bikes and Abaddon.

What's wrong with havocs?

Bit overly glassy units but 4 lascannons are 4 lascannons.

I have 3 Helbrutes with 2x Fists/Flamers I intend to try out as EC. Threat range of 18+d6", creative use of cover and movement could get it close enough to use that, strike first in melee, S12/-3/3 with the EC legion trait, it might do some work. Sadly, they're not magnetized, so I'm stuck with that loadout, which isn't horrible with Burn the Galaxy, but I've been trying to find places to use them for awhile now.

I'll give GW this, the new codex and the fact they finally delivered on WE codex got me to keep my EC stuff.

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:
I have 3 Helbrutes with 2x Fists/Flamers I intend to try out as EC. Threat range of 18+d6", creative use of cover and movement could get it close enough to use that, strike first in melee, S12/-3/3 with the EC legion trait, it might do some work. Sadly, they're not magnetized, so I'm stuck with that loadout, which isn't horrible with Burn the Galaxy, but I've been trying to find places to use them for awhile now.

I'll give GW this, the new codex and the fact they finally delivered on WE codex got me to keep my EC stuff.

How are you moving a Helbrute 18+D6”?

Rivener wrote:
How are you moving a Helbrute 18+D6”?

Honor the Prince can be used in the Movement and Charge phases targeting EC Core or Daemonkin units.

Blissful Devotion can be used on Slaanesh Core units.

Basically, 2CP and a Prayer.

I really want to like Helbrutes and they’re not bad, but Venomcrawlers do basically all the same things and are twice as fast.

kerbarian wrote:
I really want to like Helbrutes and they’re not bad, but Venomcrawlers do basically all the same things and are twice as fast.

Venomcrawlers are cheaper, for sure, the psyker bonus is nice, and their melee/shooting is pretty solid. They need an MoP and/or an LD to really shine I think.

Helbrutes are Core, so they can get Marks, between those two things it opens them up for a lot of active and passive buff options. Not sure Helbrutes are better, but I have them already, want to experiment with them. With fists/flamers they're 6 attacks, always strike first, get 2d6+4 Heavy Flamer shots, even in melee. Core/Mark also opens up a few additional stratagems for them also, situational, but possibly useful.

We'll see.

Does anyone have an idea what to do with the units not included in the codex? So Cultist Firebrand and the whole Traitor Guard range? As far as I can see, there are no rules. Sure, you can use them as Cultists, but that falls a bit short and some units don't really fit there, like the Commissioner, Ogryn or the Beastmen.

kerbarian wrote:

Rivener wrote:
What’s the best way to handle walkers and other vehicles? I know the general answer is “punch them with possessed”, but it doesn’t seem like we have a reliable armor deleter at a good price point.

We have a wide selection of units that can punch vehicles to death, but I'm not seeing anything efficient for shooting them at long range. Really our only units focused entirely on shooting (and not paying points for other things) are havocs and predators, and they're... okay. I think we get our anti-tank firepower most efficiently when it's tacked onto units that are also doing other things like MM helbrutes, bikers or terminators with combi-meltas, noise marine blastmasters, etc. So my plan is to take some of those and pick off vehicles where I can, but that the real answer to any vehicle-heavy list has to be getting into melee with them. I might put MoS on my disco lord so he can do 8 damage with his magma cutter (via Murderous Perfection), but that's only barely not melee.

I still have 3 or 4 proxies for Rapier Carrier with Laser Destroyers. Use a warpsmith or Chaos Lord to help with accuracy/buffs/healing I think they can do ok for popping heavies and figure they compete ok with Havocs for 115 points.

TwinPoleTheory wrote:

Rivener wrote:
How are you moving a Helbrute 18+D6”?

Honor the Prince can be used in the Movement and Charge phases targeting EC Core or Daemonkin units.

Blissful Devotion can be used on Slaanesh Core units.

Basically, 2CP and a Prayer.

Oof I think im falling in love with EC. Their relics are pretty meh tho.

Curze08 wrote:

kerbarian wrote:

Rivener wrote:
What’s the best way to handle walkers and other vehicles? I know the general answer is “punch them with possessed”, but it doesn’t seem like we have a reliable armor deleter at a good price point.

We have a wide selection of units that can punch vehicles to death, but I'm not seeing anything efficient for shooting them at long range. Really our only units focused entirely on shooting (and not paying points for other things) are havocs and predators, and they're... okay. I think we get our anti-tank firepower most efficiently when it's tacked onto units that are also doing other things like MM helbrutes, bikers or terminators with combi-meltas, noise marine blastmasters, etc. So my plan is to take some of those and pick off vehicles where I can, but that the real answer to any vehicle-heavy list has to be getting into melee with them. I might put MoS on my disco lord so he can do 8 damage with his magma cutter (via Murderous Perfection), but that's only barely not melee.

I still have 3 or 4 proxies for Rapier Carrier with Laser Destroyers. Use a warpsmith or Chaos Lord to help with accuracy/buffs/healing I think they can do ok for popping heavies and figure they compete ok with Havocs for 115 points.

Ive been wanting to run the Vindicator with the laser destroyer but its just too expensive. You mentioning the rapier reminded me. Same gun essentialy for pretty cheap. Kinda blows it takes up a whole HS slot but what is interesting is it is a vehicle with a small base so you can easily hide behind cover move 4 and pop whatever is threating you. I might have to go print some.

Xeldaan wrote:
Does anyone have an idea what to do with the units not included in the codex? So Cultist Firebrand and the whole Traitor Guard range? As far as I can see, there are no rules. Sure, you can use them as Cultists, but that falls a bit short and some units don't really fit there, like the Commissioner, Ogryn or the Beastmen.

Ogryn and Beastmen sound like they'd be great as Accursed Cultists. Maybe you could make a Dark Commune out of some officers? I agree that the options aren't great, though.

EviscerationPlague wrote:
Vindicators are too randumb with the shots. I also don't think Defilers carry a lot of guns for the cost.

With D3+3 shots now? That's pretty damn reliable. I still use mine at D6 and it does really well with the occasional reroll. It's a solid unit.

Anybody looked hard at Berserkers yet? Generally speaking cult troops don’t do much for me, but at the price point they’re still pretty good. 240 gets you 10, and they clock in at 5 WS3 S6 AP-3 attacks on the charge.

Chosen are probably better on the whole, giving up an attack for an additional wound, but it all depends if you want kill, or maximum kill.

Rivener wrote:
Anybody looked hard at Berserkers yet? Generally speaking cult troops don’t do much for me, but at the price point they’re still pretty good. 240 gets you 10, and they clock in at 5 WS3 S6 AP-3 attacks on the charge.

Chosen are probably better on the whole, giving up an attack for an additional wound, but it all depends if you want kill, or maximum kill.

The problem is and has always been the same. How are you gonna deliver them. Being Khorne makes them ineligible for the advance and charge chant and several other movement mechanics. Warp time no longer allows you to charge. Best you can likely do is make them Corsairs, maybe a dreadclaw/termite, etc.

 Dr.Duck wrote:

Rivener wrote:
Anybody looked hard at Berserkers yet? Generally speaking cult troops don’t do much for me, but at the price point they’re still pretty good. 240 gets you 10, and they clock in at 5 WS3 S6 AP-3 attacks on the charge.

Chosen are probably better on the whole, giving up an attack for an additional wound, but it all depends if you want kill, or maximum kill.

The problem is and has always been the same. How are you gonna deliver them. Being Khorne makes them ineligible for the advance and charge chant and several other movement mechanics. Warp time no longer allows you to charge. Best you can likely do is make them Corsairs, maybe a dreadclaw/termite, etc.

Making them Corsairs won't matter since Cult Marines won't get the rules of the Legions in this codex. So, no advancing and charging.

Beserker Marines are definitely in a bad state since Chosen can do everything they can with similar attacks and are just shooting better too. We'd basically have to wait for the actual Berserker Marine kit that's meant to go with the World Eater codex so that there's some options.

Honestly really feeling Noise marines atm. They a little pricy but not by that much and kinda check all the boxes.

I really cant get over that fact that blast masters are 3 shots and that EC suffer no penalties to hit.

Being abl e to move and shoot heavy with no penalty, advance and fire assault, or Being able to hit with fists with no penalty is SOOOOO NOICE.

Current list looks soemthing like
1 DP Daemon weapon
1 Sorc warptime, Liber Hereticus
1 Priest
10 Terms max Fists and combimelta/plas Rune
2 Hellbrutes fist and MM
4x5 Noise Marines with fist and BM
1 Spider
2 Laser Rapiers

Put the list together to test out some of the ideas that have been bouncing around in here. But I honestly want to cut more things for more noise marines. Terms can advance warp time up the board with delightful agonies and still fire their weapons with no penalties I think, which if true is kinda insane XD.

I either wanna add more noise marines or stuff that can abuse this no modifiers to hit (If I could give the TermSorc a FORCEFIST I would). I feel like EC has alot of legs. Not really digging thier relics tho.

Kinda wanna run a maxed out squad of Chaos Spawn. I need to figure out exactly how annoying it is to shoot at. Because they gonna do quite a bit of damage and opponent will have to decided whether they wanna shoot at the spawn or the terms.

I do love the rules for them. Plus the new HH marines with Emperor's Children extras look amazing.

If only the sonic weapons weren't hideous.
Massed Bolter noise marines feels like a waste, though maybe I could get away with volkite weapons as 'counts as' since they don't exist in 40k?

locarno24 wrote:


If only the sonic weapons weren't hideous.
Massed Bolter noise marines feels like a waste, though maybe I could get away with volkite weapons as 'counts as' since they don't exist in 40k?

On the Noise Marines I'm currently making I'm using the Rubric Marine Flamers with the fluid tank and lighter cut off. I then add some guitar wire to make cables going from the weapon to a suitable spot on the Noise Marine to represent some added mechanical soundshenanigans. The end result to me looks like a fine shrieking weapon which might or might not be plugged in to the Marine's mouth grill for added decibels.

Edit: Just to make my post at least a little bit on topic how do you guys rate a unit of 5 Raptors with 3 plasma pistols and 2 Meltaguns in an EC army? My fear is that they might be too squishy to get any use out of them but I do like the notion of including a fast moving unit capable of scaring anything heavily armoured while also being capable of duking it out in melee if need be.

Noise Marines don’t actually do that much damage at range though, do they? Maybe there’s some combo there I’m missing.

Speaking of which, I don’t get the Dark Commune. Seems that only the priest is a character, so in terms of price you’re getting a limited priest, an effortless to kill psyker, and some random dudes that’ll die to bolters. With only three HQ slots and over a dozen spells and prayers to use, that feels kind of silly.