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Hi,

I am going to Play next week against a friend. I Play this List. If the Game is done the feedback will follow.



Ofc it is Not maxed out or something like that, but it is my second Game with CSM since the new codex arrived. Thats why I am just testing stuff.
A little feedback would be awesome.

For those interested in building Emperors Children Noise Marines. As far as I know, what is currently available are the limited edition model, an out of stock FW conversion kit, and, assuming it is still available, old GW conversion kit that fit the previous Chaos Space Marines.

I received a 3d conversion kit from Pop Goes the Monkey for Sonic Blaster and Blastmasters. They fit exactly on the new Horus Heresy Marines. Rather than attach the bolter, the conversion kit attaches the Sonic weapons at the exact same spots. Zero additional work necessary (aside from ordering the conversion kit).

Not a great photo, but you can get the gist of the conversion kit.

 JNAProductions wrote:
If you start on the table, you can teleport T1.
If you start off the table, you can't Deep Strike T1, with some few exceptions. Drop Pods and I think a GSC thing are the only ones, to my knowledge.

Night Lords can as well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Eldenfirefly wrote:
I think I just don't quite know how to use him properly. It feels to me like I should place him behind my big terminator bloc. But then, if my terminator bloc gets charged, I feel like I don't dare to HI him into combat even with his 6 inch HI because opponent will fight first and he dies so easily. (Any unit that dares to charge my termi bloc has to be a melee unit with some sort of melee power). He just dies so easily.

And then if I use him as a counter charge against something already locked in combat. The issue is then I have to start with him, otherwise, opponent can interrupt and again, he will die on the interrupt. Very often, there might be more than one charge and melee combat going on. Having him go first doesn't necessarily feel ideal somehow. He is killy, but its not like he is going to solo an entire melee unit. And is he as killy as say Abaddon? Is he even as killy as that 10 man terminator bloc charging into combat?

Positioning is everything here. The way your opponent moves models determines how much they could swing when the MoE pops in from the side.

The MoE should not base and instead should max the engagement range.

Now the opponent has a dilemma. They need to deal with the MoE. Terminators are pretty durable, but hit somewhat softly without a lot of upgrades. Additionally this can also force them to pick this fight first as well since you have a charging model that can alternate so if you have a key fight elsewhere you can drop an interrupt and screw the other charge. And if they fail to allocate enough to the MoE then things can go really badly for them.

If you HI into a knight, well, good night sweet prince.

 Sarigar wrote:
For those interested in building Emperors Children Noise Marines. As far as I know, what is currently available are the limited edition model, an out of stock FW conversion kit, and, assuming it is still available, old GW conversion kit that fit the previous Chaos Space Marines.

I received a 3d conversion kit from Pop Goes the Monkey for Sonic Blaster and Blastmasters. They fit exactly on the new Horus Heresy Marines. Rather than attach the bolter, the conversion kit attaches the Sonic weapons at the exact same spots. Zero additional work necessary (aside from ordering the conversion kit).

Not a great photo, but you can get the gist of the conversion kit.

If money isnt a problem you can also go for: Emperor's Children Legion Kakophoni from Forge World ^^

LeRufus wrote:

 Sarigar wrote:
For those interested in building Emperors Children Noise Marines. As far as I know, what is currently available are the limited edition model, an out of stock FW conversion kit, and, assuming it is still available, old GW conversion kit that fit the previous Chaos Space Marines.

I received a 3d conversion kit from Pop Goes the Monkey for Sonic Blaster and Blastmasters. They fit exactly on the new Horus Heresy Marines. Rather than attach the bolter, the conversion kit attaches the Sonic weapons at the exact same spots. Zero additional work necessary (aside from ordering the conversion kit).

Not a great photo, but you can get the gist of the conversion kit.

If money isnt a problem you can also go for: Emperor's Children Legion Kakophoni from Forge World ^^

I mentioned a FW kit, but forgot the name of it. Not sure how they fit with the new HH minis, but it's an option.

? Those i mentioned are not a conversion kit but full miniatures

The Horus Heresy Minis.
I thought with kit you ment "Conversion kits"

LeRufus wrote:
? Those i mentioned are not a conversion kit but full miniatures

The Horus Heresy Minis.
I thought with kit you ment "Conversion kits"

Fair enough. I looked at the FW site but did not read the details. Was not aware they were complete models.

Question, how would a Spartan work with the current CSM codex?

Has the datasheet been updated to match the new chaos landraider profile?

Vatsetis wrote:
Question, how would a Spartan work with the current CSM codex?

Has the datasheet been updated to match the new chaos landraider profile?

No update yet, the Kratos tank (for Imperials only) is so far the only GW plastic 30k model to get a 40k update. Imperial Armour rules for the foreseeable unfortunately.

Historically, all of the GW plastic 30k kits have snuck rules into the loyalist codex so I'm hoping that trend continues with new 30k for both Imperials and Chaos.

I played a game against salamander successors over the weekend, nothing really to report in detail as it was over turn 3........however,

I think some other people mentioned it as well, but the Lord Discordant with the Undivided Daemon weapon and Flames of Spite is straight broken. In the two rounds he got to fight he did 15 moral wounds (and I did not roll my last set of tendrils attacks) and 9 mortal wounds (This time I only rolled his primary attacks, not tendrils or the mount). I rolled him up against my buddy's Knight and he one shot it two of three times (that includes the +1 damage for the injector) I think I am actually going to stop using this combo in friendly or less competitive games as it is straight fire, but any competitive list (outside of maybe running Abbadon) should have this combo in it.

Also got my first use of possessed. I ran a big blob of 9 (due to points) with the Rune. While they don't have the 2+ save like a big brick of terminators, the natural T5 is pretty useful in combination with the Rune. They did wiff really bad against a unit of Aggressors only scoring 1 total wound for 2 damage on 8 models attacking (so 40 attacks), but part of that was I rolled pretty poorly for the wounds (also no exploding 6's with the attacks for turn 2) and my opponent roll really good on his saves, I think he made ten 4+ saves. While that is not really an average roll I think it does show a weakness of the possessed against units with a good save and armor of contempt. Next game I am bringing the WL trait on my MoP that allows to him to put a daemonkin unit in Wanton Massacre/ improve ap by 1 (Word Bearer Trait) in the command phase to see if that really kicks up their power level.

I also am now a firm believer that shooting the top profile shot (d3 st 9) for oblitorators is always a waste of time. Espeically if you bring the MoP spell that gives +1 to wound against an enemy unit for Daemonkin/Daemon Engines. The second profile which is basically plasma is much better. Maybe against a unit with -1 damage, but even though I think I would rather take the 30+ single damage shots. Anyone else feel this way?

Everything else did what it was going to do.

 xeen wrote:
I played a game against salamander successors over the weekend, nothing really to report in detail as it was over turn 3........however,

I think some other people mentioned it as well, but the Lord Discordant with the Undivided Daemon weapon and Flames of Spite is straight broken. In the two rounds he got to fight he did 15 moral wounds (and I did not roll my last set of tendrils attacks) and 9 mortal wounds (This time I only rolled his primary attacks, not tendrils or the mount). I rolled him up against my buddy's Knight and he one shot it two of three times (that includes the +1 damage for the injector) I think I am actually going to stop using this combo in friendly or less competitive games as it is straight fire, but any competitive list (outside of maybe running Abbadon) should have this combo in it.

Also got my first use of possessed. I ran a big blob of 9 (due to points) with the Rune. While they don't have the 2+ save like a big brick of terminators, the natural T5 is pretty useful in combination with the Rune. They did wiff really bad against a unit of Aggressors only scoring 1 total wound for 2 damage on 8 models attacking (so 40 attacks), but part of that was I rolled pretty poorly for the wounds (also no exploding 6's with the attacks for turn 2) and my opponent roll really good on his saves, I think he made ten 4+ saves. While that is not really an average roll I think it does show a weakness of the possessed against units with a good save and armor of contempt. Next game I am bringing the WL trait on my MoP that allows to him to put a daemonkin unit in Wanton Massacre/ improve ap by 1 (Word Bearer Trait) in the command phase to see if that really kicks up their power level.

I also am now a firm believer that shooting the top profile shot (d3 st 9) for oblitorators is always a waste of time. Espeically if you bring the MoP spell that gives +1 to wound against an enemy unit for Daemonkin/Daemon Engines. The second profile which is basically plasma is much better. Maybe against a unit with -1 damage, but even though I think I would rather take the 30+ single damage shots. Anyone else feel this way?

Everything else did what it was going to do.

Yes, Properly kitted out Lord Discordants feel so much stronger than a DP for similar cost. The key is to kit it out properly though. If you don't use some of the good combos and just run a normal Lord Discordant with non-synergistic relics or warlord traits, then it is going to be bad. I mean, a normal LD without any rerolls to wound only wounds a vehicle on 4s with his chainglaive and the rest of his weapons wounds the same T7 vehicle on 5s... and without mortal wounds, 8 out of 14 of his attacks are AP2 or AP0.

Considering a flying nid hive tyrant can do massive damage on its attack run in and then still "fly away" such that its literally untargetable... I think having one powered up ground based Lord Discordant that stays where he is after he has done mega damage isn't broken in any way or form.

And I also strongly agree with the Obliterator shooting. Don't use the D3 shots. It is an outright trap. It almost always disappoints. The problem with that shot is not only is it too few shots, its also AP3. In the AOC world we live in these days, even a Rhino gets a 5+ save against that. And while the Str 7 shot is AP2 and also runs up against AOC, at least that has far more shots than the Str 9 shot from the obliterator. So, you can rely on your opponent rolling some fails even if its AP2. If its a really tanky target, then I think the 9+D6 shots may actually do better than even the D3 Str 9 shots just like you said.

I was actually thinking of a list with one daemon prince of slannesh with the daemon weapons and then my lord discordant with his daemon weapon. Follow behind the possessed and venom crawlers and that is two crazy blender units up in the enemy's face probably turn 2.

 xeen wrote:
I think some other people mentioned it as well, but the Lord Discordant with the Undivided Daemon weapon and Flames of Spite is straight broken. In the two rounds he got to fight he did 15 moral wounds (and I did not roll my last set of tendrils attacks) and 9 mortal wounds (This time I only rolled his primary attacks, not tendrils or the mount).

How did you artive at 15 MW after choosing a melee weapon to be the Daemon one? Most attacks are the Chainglaive which starts at 6.

 Scactha wrote:

 xeen wrote:
I think some other people mentioned it as well, but the Lord Discordant with the Undivided Daemon weapon and Flames of Spite is straight broken. In the two rounds he got to fight he did 15 moral wounds (and I did not roll my last set of tendrils attacks) and 9 mortal wounds (This time I only rolled his primary attacks, not tendrils or the mount).

How did you artive at 15 MW after choosing a melee weapon to be the Daemon one? Most attacks are the Chainglaive which starts at 6.

You give him flames of spite WL trait as well. Then 6s do a mortal wound in addition. So with just the 6 to wounds with daemon weapon I got 6 MW from that plus I rolled two extra hits for two more plus three more for 6s to wound. Then I rolled the mount got two extra hits and then 3 more 6s. (So actually 14 i miss counted before). Neither time did I use the tendrils which should net one more on average. All together I think he will reliably put out 8 to 10 MW with heavy spikes up to like 15+ if you roll well.

Eldenfirefly wrote:
And I also strongly agree with the Obliterator shooting. Don't use the D3 shots. It is an outright trap. It almost always disappoints. The problem with that shot is not only is it too few shots, its also AP3. In the AOC world we live in these days, even a Rhino gets a 5+ save against that. And while the Str 7 shot is AP2 and also runs up against AOC, at least that has far more shots than the Str 9 shot from the obliterator. So, you can rely on your opponent rolling some fails even if its AP2. If its a really tanky target, then I think the 9+D6 shots may actually do better than even the D3 Str 9 shots just like you said.

It's swingy, but the D3 shots are still the best on average against big targets. I just think Obliterators are not that efficient at shooting overall, and they need to also get into melee to be worth their points.

Against a Rhino:
D3 shots * 2/3 hit * 2/3 wound * 2/3 unsaved * 4 damage = 2.37 wounds
D3+3 shots * 2/3 hit * 1/2 wound * 1/2 unsaved * 2 damage = 1.67 wounds
D6+9 shots * 2/3 hit * 1/3 wound * 1/3 unsaved * 1 damage = 0.93 wounds

Just clarify Ul'o'cca for me.

Say I make 5 attacks, hit with 3, and then 2 of those hits successfully wound, does the target instantly take 2 MW, even if the regular damage from whatever weapon was upgraded is negated via saves?

Yes, the target suffers MWs, even if normal damage is saved.

Yeah, ok, I can kinda see why the Lord Discordant does 14-15 MW on the charge then... yikes!

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Yeah, ok, I can kinda see why the Lord Discordant does 14-15 MW on the charge then... yikes!

Can you break that down?

I'm not seeing it.

The Demon weapon only replace ONE weapon on the model... not used for all attacks, right?

 whembly wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Yeah, ok, I can kinda see why the Lord Discordant does 14-15 MW on the charge then... yikes!

Can you break that down?

I'm not seeing it.

The Demon weapon only replace ONE weapon on the model... not used for all attacks, right?

There is also the warlord trait flames of spite, which affects all 14 of the Lord Discordants melee attacks, as well as any possible additional attacks from exploding 6s if it happens to be wanton slaughter turns. And flames of spite allows you to reroll all wounds, even successful wounds, so you can reroll everything to fish for more 6s.

So, lets say we are in wanton slaughter turns. 6 attacks by the chainglaive = 7 attacks on average due to 1 explode. 7 attacks, hit on 2s, let's say 6 hits. Now, each 6 on the chainglaive = 2 mortal wounds, one from the Daemon weapon, and one from flames of spite. Even a non-six wound = 1MW because of the daemon weapon. Let's say we get 1 six and 5 non-six wounds (because of rerolls). That's 7 MW already. If we get 1 more 6 from the rerolls, that's 8MW.

Now, all the 4 mechatandrils attacks and the 4 bladed limbs attacks can trigger flames of spite, plus they can all explode for more hits on 6s. Since we just want MW, lets reroll all wounds as long as we don't get a 6s. 8 attacks = around 9 with explodes. 9 hits, with all rerolling wounds means we get at least 1 six here, and reroll 8 more wounds. I think on average, we could easily get two or three more 6s for 3 more MW. So, this now works out to 11 MW in total. And this is not counting the normal damage. If we spike sixes, we could reasonably hit 14 to 15 MW.

xeen wrote:I think some other people mentioned it as well, but the Lord Discordant with the Undivided Daemon weapon and Flames of Spite is straight broken. In the two rounds he got to fight he did 15 moral wounds

whembly wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Yeah, ok, I can kinda see why the Lord Discordant does 14-15 MW on the charge then... yikes!

Can you break that down?

I'm not seeing it.

The Demon weapon only replace ONE weapon on the model... not used for all attacks, right?

15 MW over two rounds, so 7-8 per fight from Xeen's experience.

Doing some rough and ready math's against a generic space marine profile, a disco lord with flames of spite (reroll melee wounds, MW on a 6) and the undivided daemon weapon (MW on any successful wound roll) - Xeen rolled about perfectly average as you should be getting about 2.5 MW from flames over all weapons (this includes adjusting higher strength weapons for not being able to fish for 6's as well as low strength), and roughly 4.9 MW from the chainglaive being a daemon weapon (so about 7.5ish MW per fight phase). I did this ignoring exploding 6's as those are not always on - so it can go a bit higher if you live long enough.

While impressive, the MW output might just be overkill against anything but the biggest targets, as the generic weapons in this example did a further 10-ish unsaved wounds on their own so it might actually be worth thinking about slightly toned down builds for disco lords, you could go for the similar soul eater black legion trait and the slaanesh daemon weapons and get a tankier unit that does about the same damage after factoring in that overkill doesn't get you anywhere.

Eldenfirefly wrote:

 whembly wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Yeah, ok, I can kinda see why the Lord Discordant does 14-15 MW on the charge then... yikes!

Can you break that down?

I'm not seeing it.

The Demon weapon only replace ONE weapon on the model... not used for all attacks, right?

There is also the warlord trait flames of spite, which affects all 14 of the Lord Discordants melee attacks, as well as any possible additional attacks from exploding 6s if it happens to be wanton slaughter turns. And flames of spite allows you to reroll all wounds, even successful wounds, so you can reroll everything to fish for more 6s.

So, lets say we are in wanton slaughter turns. 6 attacks by the chainglaive = 7 attacks on average due to 1 explode. 7 attacks, hit on 2s, let's say 6 hits. Now, each 6 on the chainglaive = 2 mortal wounds, one from the Daemon weapon, and one from flames of spite. Even a non-six wound = 1MW because of the daemon weapon. Let's say we get 1 six and 5 non-six wounds (because of rerolls). That's 7 MW already. If we get 1 more 6 from the rerolls, that's 8MW.

Now, all the 4 mechatandrils attacks and the 4 bladed limbs attacks can trigger flames of spite, plus they can all explode for more hits on 6s. Since we just want MW, lets reroll all wounds as long as we don't get a 6s. 8 attacks = around 9 with explodes. 9 hits, with all rerolling wounds means we get at least 1 six here, and reroll 8 more wounds. I think on average, we could easily get two or three more 6s for 3 more MW. So, this now works out to 11 MW in total. And this is not counting the normal damage. If we spike sixes, we could reasonably hit 14 to 15 MW.

Thanks for the breakdown.

Wow. That's all I can say.

Wow...

Yea the Lord Discordant is awesome. I actually agree that the MW could potentially be overkill on many units, but it is nice to wipe a small unit of infantry with just mortal wounds so you don't have a hot spike on saves and end up with enemies lift. I was also thinking of trying him with the WL trait so that he is always in all three Wantons instead of flames. Ultimately I think flames is better, but having exploding 6s on always seems like it could be good as well.

Also remember I use Word Bearer trait so re-roll hit then re-roll wound on first round. It makes getting 6 MW almost a guarantee even without Wanton Slaughter.

On the topic of CSM Secondaries and the fact they aren´t that good. I think there might actually be one that is ok.
---

It´s the generic one For the Gods, scoring is 2-5-9-14. It wants you to have a unit within 3" of the center of a table quarter doing an action. If the unit is ObSec it's done eot, else next Command.

The rider obviously is ObSec mixed with completing the action in opposing quarters. Translating this means for the opponents quarters you most often need to move an ObSec unit 20"+ Hence Legionnaires and Cultists is not a realistic option.

But Alpha Legion has WLT called Covert Control allowing you to give a Core unit within 6" ObSec in the Command Phase.

Adding this to a Sorcerer with Warptime you can first give a unit of Raptors ObSec and then slingshot them 12" + 12" Move = 24" up the board followed by the action which will be done eot.

---
The investment is 1 Cp (WLT) + 290 points (Sorc + 2x Raptors) which is fine for 14 VP imho.
---
There are variations on this, but it´s the simplest solution I´ve found out yet.

I like the look of for the dark gods too, but it's an end of movement phase action so no warptiming into range. I reckon the general plan is to grab a safe quarter turn 1 while trying to move into position ready to grab the 2 quarters on the other half of the table turns 2-4, then have turn 5 for cleaning up your half of the board.

I like For the Gods as well. But you do need to build for it in your list. In my list, I had a Rhino with one squad of 5 man legionaire and another tough elite squad in it.

In this game I played, the first 2 turns were easy doing the 2 quarters in my half of the board. Turn 3 I didn't manage to do any. But by turn 3, I had overwhelmingly pushed into one side of his deployment zone.

Turn 4, I got one tough elite unit into position on the side I had overwhelmingly pushed into and performed the action on my opponent's side of the board. It survived until turn 5 command phase. And turn 5 was also the turn my legionaire squad disembarked from the Rhino, moved to the last center of his quarter where his entire remaining army was in, and performed the action which he couldn't stop because it was a legionaire squad with obsec.

So I did manage to score all 4 for the gods, but it was a really close thing.

I don't know if this is a win more kind of secondary. I imagine if you are stuck only in your own two quarters, then you would net only 5 points. On average, if you manage to push through on one flank, you would net 9VP, which is decent. It feels like CSM should be able to aggressively at least push through on one flank. Load up a ton of forces on one flank, play a refused flank strategy on the other but with a big block of terminators holding the center. We should be able to push through deep into one flank at least. Its that last flank that's the problem. but with a legionaire unit in a Rhino. We at least can try for it on turn 5. Because at least the good thing about this secondary is that you can try and score it even with enemy units in the vicinity. Also, the center of the board usually doesn't align with where the objectives are (though they might be close). So, these aren't going to be as heavily protected as primary objectives.

The main issue with our secondary objectives is battlefield supremacy and that third secondary too. We can only take engage on all fronts and behind enemy lines for battlefield supremacy. Engage we are unlikely to score full points. In a tough fight, we would be lucky to score engage 8 or 9 points even if we have 2 cultist squads coming in from strategic reserve. Behind Enemy Lines I actually feel is often better because as CSM we always try and break through deep in at least one flank, and sometimes, our opponents and us do "the swirl". He pushes hard on one flank and I push hard on the other flank. So, there is a good chance we can get deep enough into one flank that we are able to score well in behind enemy lines.

That leaves the third secondary which is often a kill secondary. And this then depends on our opponent's army composition. If our opposition doesn't give up any easy kill secondary, we are in trouble. We could look at Psychic secondary too. But its just really tough to bring one more psyker just for the option of doing this secondary... especially because our HQ slots are so crowded. And again, some opponent's armies are psyker heavy or have 4+ deny, so it is matchup dependent.

The ability to do psychic secondaries makes me consider bringing a Tzeentch MOP with the eye of tzeentch instead of a slanaash MOP with the liber hereticus. The tzeentch MOP has the option for us to pay 1 CP for great sorceror so that he can cast one psychic plus do an action that turn. And for warp ritual we only need 3 casts through to get 12 points. This MOP would be moving towards the center of the board to cast warp ritual. MOP is a better candidate I feel that any other sorceror because he can sacrificial dagger for +2 to cast. And the eye of tzeentch gives a further +1 to cast, and unmodified 9s are undeniable. Have a venomcrawler within 9 inches and he has a stupid +4 to cast! This makes his warp rituals very very hard to stop, even against armies with psykers who do have denies.

I love the slanaash MOP with liber hereticus though. It just stays in my backlines the entire game and the range 24 inch provided by that relic allows me to cast 3 buff psychic a turn usually without having to worry about denies because he is so far back. And all 3 buffs are so good. (I usually take mutated invigoration, pact of flesh and delightful agonies). But delightful agonies can be settled with a slanaash legionaire squad with balefire tome was well, so its ok. (Unlike trying to squeeze in one more psyker into the super crowded HQ slots).

I have tried daemon prince for that one extra psyker and to be honest, its just not that optimal. You kind of want your DP to have the freedom to roam wherever he wants, attack whoever he wants on the board and his movement is 12 inch fly. Trying to shackle him near the center of the board to do warp ritual is very limiting. Also, you want your DP to do lots of damage, and not mind if he does die as long as he did his job. But for doing psychic actions, you want him to stay alive long enough to perform all the psychic actions (be it interrogate or warp ritual). So far, all the games I brought my DP, he has died. lol (Maybe I just didn't make him tanky enough).

Also, I have tried out lord discordant instead of a DP, and well, as we saw in the posts above, a well kit out lord discordant is so much better than a DP. BTW, flames of spite MW is on attack, not just melee attack, so on your Lord Discordant, his baleflamer shots on 6s to wound trigger MW as well... lol

Eldenfirefly wrote:

 whembly wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Yeah, ok, I can kinda see why the Lord Discordant does 14-15 MW on the charge then... yikes!

Can you break that down?

I'm not seeing it.

The Demon weapon only replace ONE weapon on the model... not used for all attacks, right?

There is also the warlord trait flames of spite, which affects all 14 of the Lord Discordants melee attacks, as well as any possible additional attacks from exploding 6s if it happens to be wanton slaughter turns. And flames of spite allows you to reroll all wounds, even successful wounds, so you can reroll everything to fish for more 6s.

So, lets say we are in wanton slaughter turns. 6 attacks by the chainglaive = 7 attacks on average due to 1 explode. 7 attacks, hit on 2s, let's say 6 hits. Now, each 6 on the chainglaive = 2 mortal wounds, one from the Daemon weapon, and one from flames of spite. Even a non-six wound = 1MW because of the daemon weapon. Let's say we get 1 six and 5 non-six wounds (because of rerolls). That's 7 MW already. If we get 1 more 6 from the rerolls, that's 8MW.

Now, all the 4 mechatandrils attacks and the 4 bladed limbs attacks can trigger flames of spite, plus they can all explode for more hits on 6s. Since we just want MW, lets reroll all wounds as long as we don't get a 6s. 8 attacks = around 9 with explodes. 9 hits, with all rerolling wounds means we get at least 1 six here, and reroll 8 more wounds. I think on average, we could easily get two or three more 6s for 3 more MW. So, this now works out to 11 MW in total. And this is not counting the normal damage. If we spike sixes, we could reasonably hit 14 to 15 MW.

I mentioned this on a prior post but if you also put the infernal power from the malefic discipline. Any 6s to hit will not only explode but also count as 6s to wound, thus proccing flames of spite. If you are in EC then you also get -1 AP to those attacks when you go to saves.

Discos can get very nutty

Been considering possibliy running 2 in some lists but you definitely get more value out of flames than The daemon weapon. Pumping both lords is likely inefficient CP wise
Flames of spite and Gorget
Daemon weapon and 5+++


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Insularum wrote:

Vatsetis wrote:
Question, how would a Spartan work with the current CSM codex?

Has the datasheet been updated to match the new chaos landraider profile?

No update yet, the Kratos tank (for Imperials only) is so far the only GW plastic 30k model to get a 40k update. Imperial Armour rules for the foreseeable unfortunately.

Historically, all of the GW plastic 30k kits have snuck rules into the loyalist codex so I'm hoping that trend continues with new 30k for both Imperials and Chaos.

Gonna potentially be another one of those options that cost 1 CP?

Honestly you might not need to put the Daemon Weapon on the Lord Discordant, just put Flames of Spite on. Sure if we want the absolute most MWs out of a single model putting everything on the LD offensively is good, but we have to both keep the LD alive long enough as well as take into account that pre-game command points are at a premium. If we can get away with 'just' the offensive power of Flames of Spite, we can maybe burn one more point on a defensive relic like the Gorget of Eternal Hate for a 1+ save with AoC. I think Flames is probably a better choice for your single offensive point spend than the Daemon Weapon simply because you also get full wound rerolls to fish for 6s, and having that on a model with 14 base attacks is basically the best use of Flames of Spite there is. Though if there's a particularly good defensive WLT I can see going for the Daemon Weapon instead.

In addition, not having to take the Undivided Daemon Weapon lets us put a Mark on them. I think Slaanesh is one of the better ones these days because the 5+++ power is amazing on tougher models (though saving it for Black Rune Terminators/Chosen is probably better), but I can see the LD making good use of any of the Marks (Nurgle probably the most niche).

 Thariinye wrote:
Honestly you might not need to put the Daemon Weapon on the Lord Discordant, just put Flames of Spite on. Sure if we want the absolute most MWs out of a single model putting everything on the LD offensively is good, but we have to both keep the LD alive long enough as well as take into account that pre-game command points are at a premium. If we can get away with 'just' the offensive power of Flames of Spite, we can maybe burn one more point on a defensive relic like the Gorget of Eternal Hate for a 1+ save with AoC. I think Flames is probably a better choice for your single offensive point spend than the Daemon Weapon simply because you also get full wound rerolls to fish for 6s, and having that on a model with 14 base attacks is basically the best use of Flames of Spite there is. Though if there's a particularly good defensive WLT I can see going for the Daemon Weapon instead.

In addition, not having to take the Undivided Daemon Weapon lets us put a Mark on them. I think Slaanesh is one of the better ones these days because the 5+++ power is amazing on tougher models (though saving it for Black Rune Terminators/Chosen is probably better), but I can see the LD making good use of any of the Marks (Nurgle probably the most niche).

Ive been thinking this too. If you put all your buffs on the terms. All you doing is further discouraging your opponent to shoot at your terms, They dont avhe the greatest damage output so you really WANT your opponent to shoot at them.

Just a quick question regarding the Talon of Horus...

How many attacks would Abaddon get with it?

Let’s say I rolled +3 attacks as I’m fighting Imperium targets; is that 8x2 + 3 attacks for 19 attacks total or 8+3x2 for 22 attacks total?