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 Irbis wrote:

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
Yes, and almost all unit types for Firstborn are incompatible with the Heresy army list.

Like what?

This is literally not true outside of Razorback (and hurricane bolters on LR). There used to be a distinction but inept HH writers started slapping thunder hammers, storm shields, assault cannons and all the other stuff that was supposed to be post Heresy development on units thoughtlessly and now about the only difference is HH adeptus uglysquattus pretend to be primaris in some cases, no ablative bolter sergeant on a few units. That's literally it, just look how HH new DA units copy hellblasters/bladeguard, or suspiciously totally-not-reiver destroyer squads in recent updates, you can use them in both games with zero conversions...

My tactical or devastator squads are not HH-legal in their composition, and no opponent would accept an entire army composed mostly of Mk7s, even if they were painted in period correct legion liveries. You cannot be ignorant of this, being a poster of not inconsiderable standing here, which leads me to question the sincerity of your question - your use of a mocking epithet for the army reinforces this. I've given you a more thorough answer than you deserve, a service which you can be assured will not be repeated.

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
... and no opponent would accept an entire army composed mostly of Mk7s, even if they were painted in period correct legion liveries...

I think that would be very odd if someone did that.

Painted an entire non-HH army in HH accurate colors, or accepted an opponent playing the same?

A complete HH army made of Mk.7's (assuming that it's a 100% legal HH army from a weapons/units perspective).

The idea that someone would refuse to play against that sounds silly.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
A complete HH army made of Mk.7's (assuming that it's a 100% legal HH army from a weapons/units perspective).

The idea that someone would refuse to play against that sounds silly.

honestly if we're talking a lovely crafted and converted army of say.. Imperial fists in full MK VII armor.. based to apper as if part of a seige.. . I'd think it was awesome.

 Irbis wrote:

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
Yes, and almost all unit types for Firstborn are incompatible with the Heresy army list.

Like what?

This is literally not true outside of Razorback (and hurricane bolters on LR).

From my army, off top of my head: bloodclaws, wulfen, thunderwolves, fenrisian wolves, dreads with axe and shield or double claws (Murderfang), stormwolf/stormfang gunship, razorback, land raider crusader/redeemer... pretty much my entire collection barring a few grey hunters and long fangs.

 Blackie wrote:

 Irbis wrote:

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
Yes, and almost all unit types for Firstborn are incompatible with the Heresy army list.

Like what?

This is literally not true outside of Razorback (and hurricane bolters on LR).

From my army, off top of my head: bloodclaws, wulfen, thunderwolves, fenrisian wolves, dreads with axe and shield or double claws (Murderfang), stormwolf/stormfang gunship, razorback, land raider crusader/redeemer... pretty much my entire collection barring a few grey hunters and long fangs.

actually ferensian wolves are in the PDF.

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
My tactical or devastator squads are not HH-legal in their composition, and no opponent would accept an entire army composed mostly of Mk7s, even if they were painted in period correct legion liveries. You cannot be ignorant of this, being a poster of not inconsiderable standing here, which leads me to question the sincerity of your question - your use of a mocking epithet for the army reinforces this. I've given you a more thorough answer than you deserve, a service which you can be assured will not be repeated.

Point of order, Agamemnon2 - there is a significant difference between post count and standing.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Blackie wrote:

 Irbis wrote:

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
Yes, and almost all unit types for Firstborn are incompatible with the Heresy army list.

Like what?

This is literally not true outside of Razorback (and hurricane bolters on LR).

From my army, off top of my head: bloodclaws, wulfen, thunderwolves, fenrisian wolves, dreads with axe and shield or double claws (Murderfang), stormwolf/stormfang gunship, razorback, land raider crusader/redeemer... pretty much my entire collection barring a few grey hunters and long fangs.

actually ferensian wolves are in the PDF.

Ah great to know, now 30% of my collection of firstborn SW is actually compatible with HH .

BrianDavion wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
A complete HH army made of Mk.7's (assuming that it's a 100% legal HH army from a weapons/units perspective).

The idea that someone would refuse to play against that sounds silly.

honestly if we're talking a lovely crafted and converted army of say.. Imperial fists in full MK VII armor.. based to apper as if part of a seige.. . I'd think it was awesome.

I don't see why the hell would someone not play against mark VIIs in HH, as long as the army is legal. That seems like a weird hill to die on.

 Albertorius wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
A complete HH army made of Mk.7's (assuming that it's a 100% legal HH army from a weapons/units perspective).

The idea that someone would refuse to play against that sounds silly.

honestly if we're talking a lovely crafted and converted army of say.. Imperial fists in full MK VII armor.. based to apper as if part of a seige.. . I'd think it was awesome.

I don't see why the hell would someone not play against mark VIIs in HH, as long as the army is legal. That seems like a weird hill to die on.

I have seen this debate before.I have some maximus armor marines MK IV just because i like them, but not enough to make a proper heresy list. i have however ran a 30K list using the 40K mini i have and it was fun. the problem comes with the hardcore hobbyist who have invested heavy into 30K. they get offended that you have not made an effort to invest in the game with the correct models. the outer circle on YT is primarily a 30K player and he did a video about why this is an issue in that community.

 aphyon wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
A complete HH army made of Mk.7's (assuming that it's a 100% legal HH army from a weapons/units perspective).

The idea that someone would refuse to play against that sounds silly.

honestly if we're talking a lovely crafted and converted army of say.. Imperial fists in full MK VII armor.. based to apper as if part of a seige.. . I'd think it was awesome.

I don't see why the hell would someone not play against mark VIIs in HH, as long as the army is legal. That seems like a weird hill to die on.

I have seen this debate before.I have some maximus armor marines MK IV just because i like them, but not enough to make a proper heresy list. i have however ran a 30K list using the 40K mini i have and it was fun. the problem comes with the hardcore hobbyist who have invested heavy into 30K. they get offended that you have not made an effort to invest in the game with the correct models. the outer circle on YT is primarily a 30K player and he did a video about why this is an issue in that community.

Well, now they have two problems: getting offended and getting over it. Trying to dictate where other people's enjoyment should be derived from is inane.

Yeah, and it was insufferable.

Marines are Marines. It's not like you're using Chaos Marines or Primaris Marines to rep Heresy-era Legions.

I understand why people want others ot invest in the game. If everyone just used 40K models GW would eventually stop making 30K and just release a rule book.

However its something that should be encouraged rather than being hostile against 40K models. Again its a case where people's passion gets ahead of their manners

 Albertorius wrote:

 aphyon wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
A complete HH army made of Mk.7's (assuming that it's a 100% legal HH army from a weapons/units perspective).

The idea that someone would refuse to play against that sounds silly.

honestly if we're talking a lovely crafted and converted army of say.. Imperial fists in full MK VII armor.. based to apper as if part of a seige.. . I'd think it was awesome.

I don't see why the hell would someone not play against mark VIIs in HH, as long as the army is legal. That seems like a weird hill to die on.

I have seen this debate before.I have some maximus armor marines MK IV just because i like them, but not enough to make a proper heresy list. i have however ran a 30K list using the 40K mini i have and it was fun. the problem comes with the hardcore hobbyist who have invested heavy into 30K. they get offended that you have not made an effort to invest in the game with the correct models. the outer circle on YT is primarily a 30K player and he did a video about why this is an issue in that community.

Well, now they have two problems: getting offended and getting over it. Trying to dictate where other people's enjoyment should be derived from is inane.

Yet it doesn't stop you . Honestly people on the 40k side seem to be the ones that get offended whenever this comes up. So what if someone wants to actually play HH and not against your low effort 40k proxy army?

Is that sarcasm?

JSG wrote:
Yet it doesn't stop you . Honestly people on the 40k side seem to be the ones that get offended whenever this comes up. So what if someone wants to actually play HH and not against your low effort 40k proxy army?

Yes. So what? They can want whatever they want, and they'll get whatever there is. And then they'll have to get over it or feth off.

This is my HH army, by the way:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Yeah, and it was insufferable.

Marines are Marines. It's not like you're using Chaos Marines or Primaris Marines to rep Heresy-era Legions.

Actually, one of the arguments was exactly this. GW featured a fan made heresy army using primaris marines painted as their legion counterparts in WD IIRC.

I personally don't have an issue with it since primaris armor is effectively upscaled MKIV maximus armor.

 Dysartes wrote:

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
My tactical or devastator squads are not HH-legal in their composition, and no opponent would accept an entire army composed mostly of Mk7s, even if they were painted in period correct legion liveries. You cannot be ignorant of this, being a poster of not inconsiderable standing here, which leads me to question the sincerity of your question - your use of a mocking epithet for the army reinforces this. I've given you a more thorough answer than you deserve, a service which you can be assured will not be repeated.

Point of order, Agamemnon2 - there is a significant difference between post count and standing.

And a fortunate thing that is, too, otherwise I'd have to defer to the likes of you.

I just meant that Irbis isn't some newly-blown-to-town tumbleweed of a poster, but someone who's been around the block a few times and should know better, but is choosing to be willfully obtuse.

 Albertorius wrote:

I don't see why the hell would someone not play against mark VIIs in HH, as long as the army is legal. That seems like a weird hill to die on.

Who knows why madmen do what they do? But I have seen it done, so I have to believe the evidence of my own eyes in this regard.

 aphyon wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
A complete HH army made of Mk.7's (assuming that it's a 100% legal HH army from a weapons/units perspective).

The idea that someone would refuse to play against that sounds silly.

honestly if we're talking a lovely crafted and converted army of say.. Imperial fists in full MK VII armor.. based to apper as if part of a seige.. . I'd think it was awesome.

I don't see why the hell would someone not play against mark VIIs in HH, as long as the army is legal. That seems like a weird hill to die on.

I have seen this debate before.I have some maximus armor marines MK IV just because i like them, but not enough to make a proper heresy list. i have however ran a 30K list using the 40K mini i have and it was fun. the problem comes with the hardcore hobbyist who have invested heavy into 30K. they get offended that you have not made an effort to invest in the game with the correct models. the outer circle on YT is primarily a 30K player and he did a video about why this is an issue in that community.

There's going to be a clear difference between someone crafting a 30k army themed around the Siege and wearing largely mark 7 and someone who doesn't want to run a proper 30k army and just use their 40k Firstborn with some new HH models tacked on.

The vast majority of people would have zero problem with the former but in most cases when someone is trying to justify a mark 7 army it's the latter.

This 40K-Marines-to-HH thing is not a real rumour, isn't it? It feels like derailing this thread already.

 Darnok wrote:
This 40K-Marines-to-HH thing is not a real rumour, isn't it? It feels like derailing this thread already.

They are just discussing that it happens. If I have a 40K army and want to play Horus Heresy, I may just use my 40K models instead of buying an entirely new army of nearly identical space marines. Because humans have limited resources.

It's not, no. It's an insulting suggestion trotted out by insincere Primaris fanciers who think people like me would be content rolling up my lovingly created custom chapter into an alternate color scheme for a random HH legion. If I'd wanted to build Iron Hands, I would have done it by myself.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Yeah, and it was insufferable.

Marines are Marines. It's not like you're using Chaos Marines or Primaris Marines to rep Heresy-era Legions.

Primaris no, but chaos marines? As long as it is a traitor legion in the correct livery and load out, why wouldn't you? Things are starting to go very strange by the end of the Heresy. Things are falling off on the man if you know what I mean. Would be an excellent force because now fighter other traitors can not be because you are blackshields but because they are horrified at what you - and by extension them - are becoming.

Naturally I am using my original beakies and rhino hulls. And Dreds. Some even have long legs. The rest of you are all far too modern.

 Scottywan82 wrote:

 Darnok wrote:
This 40K-Marines-to-HH thing is not a real rumour, isn't it? It feels like derailing this thread already.

They are just discussing that it happens. If I have a 40K army and want to play Horus Heresy, I may just use my 40K models instead of buying an entirely new army of nearly identical space marines. Because humans have limited resources.

That's perfectly fine... for a thread of its own over in 40K General. It is in no way related to the topic of this thread however.

 Albertorius wrote:


Well, now they have two problems: getting offended and getting over it. Trying to dictate where other people's enjoyment should be derived from is inane.

Well some people want to play historically accurate and not have fight between ww2 americans and aztec indians either.

Why should somebody be allowed to force to play vs him? Why is one allowed to demand you MUST play with me?

It goes both way. Nobody is forced to play vs others. If I don't want to play with you I have that right. You have ZERO RIGHT WHATSOEVER to expect me to play with you if I don't want to. Any attempt to claim otherwise is insane jerk move.

Can I just throw in here that I played Epic Space Marine and Adeptus Titanicus 35 years ago, right when the HH was first conceived, and all my marines (1000+ of them) were mk 6/7. And at no point did it matter a jot. Also, for those people saying their 40k forces 'won't work' for HH. Wot, your Marine with a bolter won't work in HH?

tneva82 wrote:
Well some people want to play historically accurate and not have fight between ww2 americans and aztec indians either.

That's a ridiculous comparison. Aztecs look nothing like WWII Americans and even a casual observer with no knowledge about the game could tell you that. With 30k vs. 40k marines only a handful of rivet counters can tell you which armor version is which. To those of us who don't play marines they're all just power armor marines, to someone not involved in the hobby they're absolutely the same thing. Even most marine players probably can't identify the various armor types without a guide.

But I'm sure you or some other rivet counter will be along shortly to give me a long explanation of why this one specific version of space marine isn't quite as space mariney as some other space marine and the shoulder pad being 0.1mm too long makes it clearly inappropriate for a 30k game.

And to further add......WW2 actually happened. No one is suddenly going to announce that actually, 6th Airborne Div had a previously unknown form of AT launcher because there's a new edition out. With HH, spoiler alert, "ITS ALL MADE UP." I feel it important to mention this again, because as I've said earlier, I've been with this game for 35 years, and what's 'canon' changes like the wind blows.

"It's fiction, so it doesn't matter" is a terrible approach to writing.
I'm sure Tolkien would appreciate being told all that care he put in his work is meaningless and he should give Legolas an AK.
After all, LoTR is fiction. It's all made up, so who cares?

Just because GW is gak at continuity, doesn't mean it has to be that way.

Now, concerning power armor marks, the MkVII was actually made during the Heresy and issued to some marines, so marines wearing MkVII armor wouldn't be that out of place. Rare, but not impossible.

Mark VII armour, also known as the “Aquila,” “Imperator”, “Eagle” armour[1] or “Armorum Impetor”[39], was developed during the Horus Heresy, and remains in use as one of the most common form of power armour ten thousand years later. It represents the final major development of Mark VI armour.[1]

While the final battle for Mars was underway, the Imperium realised the planet would eventually be lost. Armour development teams were transferred to Earth to continue, incorporating their latest work into the armour type that would become Mark VII. As Mars fell to Horus, the new armour began reaching the Space Marines on Terra and Luna.[1]

What would be a problem would be Heresy era Primaris and MkVIII armor patterns, as those were developed long after the Heresy.