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 NinthMusketeer wrote:
"Nirvana" wasn't the impression I got, more "win the FFA and eat the losers".

I mean....

Sometimes the spirit of an Eightbound World Eater can even emerge triumphant, becoming one with the eight neverborn sharing its physical form. These are the Exalted Eightbound, even more dangerous and daemonic than others of their kind.

That doesnt sound like he ate them, it sounds like he merged with them.

"Becoming one with the Neverborn...."

So that sounds like he merges, right? So must be super duper possessed, his body basically being a mix of daemon and Marine proper and not a mish mash, right? So it must look really daemonic, almost like a mini daemon prince, right?

- It's a Marine with slightly clawed feet and somehow even less 'mutations' on the armour than your normal CSM mini has.

"What."

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
So there's a wee bit of explanation in the fluff; for the Eightbound the CSM soul is in competition with the daemons, but the daemons are also in competition with each other. That is the key part; none of them can 'complete' the possession because there are 7 others trying to do the exact same thing and stop each other at the same time. Exalted Eightbound are where these daemons and the CSM have fused together on the spiritual end into one being--making them much more similar to a conventional possession as a result.

From the fluff video they did a couple of weeks ago, Eightbound candidates that don't withstand the possession process get dragged into the warp, turn into chaos spawn, or other fun outcomes.

Regular Eightbound are those that have conquered the eight daemons for control of their body again, and have more agency than regular CSM possessed who are prone to being dominated by the daemon.

Exalted Eightbound are something different from a regular possession, with multiple beings fusing into one.

It reminds me of the short story “A More Perfect Union” which features an Emperor’s Children lord who has an addiction to…devouring minor daemons. His soul described as a small galaxy of stars.

He later merged with a strong Slaaneshi daemon and they become something of a Possessed Chaos Lord.

Slaanesh seems to feature a lot of such relationships, Syl’Esske coming to mind of where a mortal and a daemon joined into a loving relationship before he became a DP and Slaanesh bonded them into a symbiotic being.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
"Becoming one with the Neverborn...."

So that sounds like he merges, right? So must be super duper possessed, his body basically being a mix of daemon and Marine proper and not a mish mash, right? So it must look really daemonic, almost like a mini daemon prince, right?

- It's a Marine with slightly clawed feet and somehow even less 'mutations' on the armour than your normal CSM mini has.

"What."

The greatest travesty in this whole affair...
Whelp, let's hope they do better next time. See you in 20 years for the new Hatebound sculpt in plasteel !

In the meantime, when I'll pick up the WE dex (in one or two editions) I'll just run Khorny possessed as proxies.

I guess if want a World Eater character on foot, that limited character terminator will still be valid. Not much, but he's there.

There's some World Eaters info from the WH+ battle report video today which mostly confirms the existing leaks on stratagems.

Most of the new details confirm the blood tithe rules.



The points can be spent at the end of each battle round on abilities. Only 6 of the 8 tithe abilities from previous leaks were used in this battle report.

2BTP = Spiteful nullification. 5+++ against mortal wounds.
3BTP = Rage-fuelled invigoration. +1 to charges.
4BTP = Wrathful devotion. Armywide 6+++.
4BTP = Warp blades. +1AP to melee attacks.
5BTP = Martial Excellence. Exploding 6's to hit.
6BTP = Reborn in blood. If Angron is dead, he comes back into reserve on the following turn with 8 wounds.
Note: that Angron generates 2 or 3 BTP each time he dies, and can return as often as you have points for it. In this battle report he returned he died and returned multiple times.

 xttz wrote:
Note: that Angron generates 2 or 3 BTP each time he dies, and can return as often as you have points for it. In this battle report he returned he died and returned multiple times.

No resurrection limitation, huh? Thematically I find it dissatisfying that a Daemon Primarch can die so often in a five or six turn game that he could return "multiple times".

Further details of interest:

Eightbound can enter from strat reserves one turn earlier than normal, including turn 1.

The generic juggerlord HQ has the same +2" move aura as Invocatus.

The Berzerker Blood Surge ability allows them to move into engagement range with the closest enemy unit, and seems to allow multiple uses per turn. The full text is posted below with some stratagems.

Battle report as a TL;DR is:

"GK stand and get engaged endlessly, WE roll hot after easily getting to combat, Angron self-rez on loop"

I guess for a one dimensional army it's a one dimensional report.

 Geifer wrote:

 xttz wrote:
Note: that Angron generates 2 or 3 BTP each time he dies, and can return as often as you have points for it. In this battle report he returned he died and returned multiple times.

No resurrection limitation, huh? Thematically I find it dissatisfying that a Daemon Primarch can die so often in a five or six turn game that he could return "multiple times".

If you imagine ''dying'' on the table not as being actually banished, but as doing some classic demon stuff like being ripped apart by a titan and then just reknitting yourself it is tolerable. It's obviously a 'gamey' thing to keep his profile in the general vicinity of other things on the table and keep his cost low enough for normal games.

3rd edition:
It took the lifes of 90 Grey Knight Terminators to banish Angron and his escort of 13 Bloodthirsters for 1000 years and save Armageddon.

Today:
- Angron gets one-rounded twice and ressurects twice in one game.

Everything might be balanced and stuff, but this is just funny.

Tsagualsa wrote:
If you imagine ''dying'' on the table not as being actually banished, but as doing some classic demon stuff like being ripped apart by a titan and then just reknitting yourself it is tolerable. It's obviously a 'gamey' thing to keep his profile in the general vicinity of other things on the table and keep his cost low enough for normal games.

The fluff text says "Should his immortal form suffer even catastrophic damage, Angron can reform it through sheer force of will".

a_typical_hero wrote:
3rd edition:
It took the lifes of 90 Grey Knight Terminators to banish Angron and his escort of 13 Bloodthirsters for 1000 years and save Armageddon.

Today:
- Angron gets one-rounded twice and ressurects twice in one game.

Everything might be balanced and stuff, but this is just funny.

Tsagualsa wrote:
If you imagine ''dying'' on the table not as being actually banished, but as doing some classic demon stuff like being ripped apart by a titan and then just reknitting yourself it is tolerable. It's obviously a 'gamey' thing to keep his profile in the general vicinity of other things on the table and keep his cost low enough for normal games.

The fluff text says "Should his immortal form suffer even catastrophic damage, Angron can reform it through sheer force of will".

There are a few examples of him doing it during the heresy/siege iirc.

Batrep seemed to be very accurate to the rumors: https://pastebin.com/1xPdShRY

Biggest changes so far are that Angron can rez multiple times, but double the BT cost. All the stratagems looked accurate, same with the icon, BT etc.

Will go in an update this at some point.

 Geifer wrote:

 xttz wrote:
Note: that Angron generates 2 or 3 BTP each time he dies, and can return as often as you have points for it. In this battle report he returned he died and returned multiple times.

No resurrection limitation, huh? Thematically I find it dissatisfying that a Daemon Primarch can die so often in a five or six turn game that he could return "multiple times".

I both agree and disagree.

Thematically it just feels…. Wrong for a demon primarch to die so fast in such small engagements. If a game of 40k is supposed to represent something like 2 minutes of “battle time”, it’s crazy to think of him being so squishy and easily killed.

On the other hand, it’s pretty awesome to Angron constantly ripping through the walls of reality like an extra red Koolaid Man. Where one weapon is already slicing open real space even before his body even hits the ground like ultra-violent Night Crawler from hell.

 morganfreeman wrote:
I both agree and disagree.

Thematically it just feels…. Wrong for a demon primarch to die so fast in such small engagements. If a game of 40k is supposed to represent something like 2 minutes of “battle time”, it’s crazy to think of him being so squishy and easily killed.

On the other hand, it’s pretty awesome to Angron constantly ripping through the walls of reality like an extra red Koolaid Man. Where one weapon is already slicing open real space even before his body even hits the ground like ultra-violent Night Crawler from hell.

Worth noting that in this case Angron leeroy'd alone into a full Grey Knight army on the opening turn, killed a dreadknight in combat, then died as their whole army blasted him. I'd argue that there shouldn't be any units in the game capable of first turn charges and also surviving the firepower of a nearly-intact opposing force.

It was also pretty obviously done on purpose to demonstrate the blood tithe mechanic and respawn ability.

I'm so happy for World Eaters players lost more than half of the CSM codex to get a 6+++ after they lost a bunch of their army to shooting.

What a fething joke. Is anyone even defending this anymore?

EviscerationPlague wrote:
I'm so happy for World Eaters players lost more than half of the CSM codex to get a 6+++ after they lost a bunch of their army to shooting.

What a fething joke. Is anyone even defending this anymore?

Tons of people are happy with it because they also think World Eaters are all about crazy berzerkers.

I don't agree with them, but it is how it is.

EviscerationPlague wrote:
I'm so happy for World Eaters players lost more than half of the CSM codex to get a 6+++ after they lost a bunch of their army to shooting.

What a fething joke. Is anyone even defending this anymore?

Read the thread and answer your own question.

EviscerationPlague wrote:
I'm so happy for World Eaters players lost more than half of the CSM codex to get a 6+++ after they lost a bunch of their army to shooting.

What a fething joke. Is anyone even defending this anymore?

The rough part is that WE are probably going to be fairly strong. Angron being a massive t1 threat that’s also quite tough, and revivable, means he’ll be ripping things apart most of the game. Combine that with his no-fall back aura and he’s going to fair better against enemies who survive his charge.

 morganfreeman wrote:

On the other hand, it’s pretty awesome to Angron constantly ripping through the walls of reality like an extra red Koolaid Man.

But now put to the music of "Wrecking Ball" with filk lyrics:
I coming in like the Kool-aid Man....Oooooohhh yaaaaaa"

EviscerationPlague wrote:
I'm so happy for World Eaters players lost more than half of the CSM codex to get a 6+++ after they lost a bunch of their army to shooting.

What a fething joke. Is anyone even defending this anymore?

I don't think anyone ever was. At best distracted by the new (and tbf pretty cool) shinies.

So one of the core rules of the army includes parts that are specifically for a special character that someone may not have or even want to take?

Cool...

If I read right, the Blood Tithe Points go up when ANY unit dies. It doesn't say friend or foe, so both?

Khorne cares not from whence the blood flows, unless it was from the 16-ish units WE players are losing, then he cares quite a bit.

 cuda1179 wrote:
If I read right, the Blood Tithe Points go up when ANY unit dies. It doesn't say friend or foe, so both?

I would assume so, being both in theme and the same as it is in AoS.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So one of the core rules of the army includes parts that are specifically for a special character that someone may not have or even want to take?

Cool...

I think that criticism is a bit harsh, this is not just any special character. When a Daemon Primarch roles in with HIS faction I don't mind a few extra sentences carved out for him.

Also wouldn't mind a few sentences carved out to give WE access to CSM, but...

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I think that criticism is a bit harsh, this is not just any special character. When a Daemon Primarch roles in with HIS faction I don't mind a few extra sentences carved out for him.

I don't like tying special characters to any aspects of a faction's core rules.

There are a lot of people who don't like to field special characters. If Ultramarines had a set of rules where one of them only related to my half brother, despite my love of that character I'd still be annoyed.

Sure, it's not as bad as the old days where to play Salamanders or Imperial Fists you had to bring He'stan or Lysander, but I'd rather army special rules be special rules for the army, not the army + an ultimate one just for this one guy who you may never take.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Also wouldn't mind a few sentences carved out to give WE access to CSM, but...

Or GW just not to a half-assed job in the first place.

I mean, I don't think Zerker Champs are even going to have access Power Fists in the new book. Have we seen a single new Zerker with a power fist?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I think that criticism is a bit harsh, this is not just any special character. When a Daemon Primarch roles in with HIS faction I don't mind a few extra sentences carved out for him.

I don't like tying special characters to any aspects of a faction's core rules.

There are a lot of people who don't like to field special characters. If Ultramarines had a set of rules where one of them only related to my half brother, despite my love of that character I'd still be annoyed.

Sure, it's not as bad as the old days where to play Salamanders or Imperial Fists you had to bring He'stan or Lysander, but I'd rather army special rules be special rules for the army, not the army + an ultimate one just for this one guy who you may never take.

Hm, considering it from that perspective I can see your point. Not sure if I agree, but I no longer disagree.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Also wouldn't mind a few sentences carved out to give WE access to CSM, but...

Or GW just not to a half-assed job in the first place.

I mean, I don't think Zerker Champs are even going to have access Power Fists in the new book. Have we seen a single new Zerker with a power fist?

No arguments from me on that one.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Hm, considering it from that perspective I can see your point. Not sure if I agree, but I no longer disagree.

One thing I hadn't considered: Perhaps that rule isn't part of the Blood Tithe rules and is, instead, a special rule on Angron's datasheet. That seems more appropriate to me, rather than a general army rule that you may never use.

 cuda1179 wrote:
If I read right, the Blood Tithe Points go up when ANY unit dies. It doesn't say friend or foe, so both?

Khorne cares not whence the blood flows.